Suspension for 130 HCPU dual cab??

[MIDDO]

Please help!

I have purchased a new 130 dual cab (not tub, steel tray) and looking for information in regards to a 2inch lift, and upgrade of the shockies, if I need too? I know it's a HCPU, but with suspension I am unsure what this means. I need it to carry a fair bit of weight, roof top camper and bull bar front, 140L in excess fuel and also a quad on the tray. Any ideas of brands and ideas will be taken on board, as many places I have called to inquire, don't really want to help me out.

Thanks guys in advance

[Benz]

yours is a band new one yeah?

don't like stock suspension or are you after some more height?

[130man]

Hi Middo, I am not an expert but I have the impression, mostly from threads on this forum, that raising the suspension on the more recent Defenders causes some trouble, particularly in the front drive line. Have you had a chance to see how it goes with the loads you mention on the standard set up? My 130 goes really well on the standard suspension apart from having double shockies on the rear to control bounce when heavily loaded. Cheers, 130man.

[juddy]

I would agree with the other post, the 130 be it a hcpu or tray , is fine in standard form, after all it is classed as heavy duty.

[justinc]

DON'T change a thing!! The standard 130 HCPU suspension is better than most aftermarket stuff by a mile, only thing I'd change is shocks IF you are pounding it fully loaded over horrific terrain. Koni Raid 90's are the go....:) Factory shocks are now gas charged unlike the early models, so are quite good actually. I have gone to considerable effort with my 110 to find some factory 130 spec rear suspension, as it is very good for heavy load carrying and especially towing.:)
This link will shed some light on the konis... http://www.beadelltours.com.au/shock_absorbers.html


JC

[Summiitt]

I run 3 single cab 130s for my business,(2 td5,1 puma) we have custom built heavy steel trays, tools and a 600 litre fuel tank, I have been really impressed with the standard suspension as the vehicles run at about 3.1-3.5 t gvm. Having said that, one of the Td5 vehicles is fitted with extra heavy duty tough dog coils and shocks all round as it was fitted with a drilling rig rather than a tray before I bought it. The vehicle was almost undrivable if unloaded and needs about 800 kgs in the tray to settle it down, I've had 2.1 ton in the tray and it still sat pretty flat. As a compromise I would stick with the standard 130 suspension, it needs to be loaded to get the flex out of the coils and get a good on road ride..hope this helps

[Jack Isa]

Standard is fine if your carrying your lunch to work...King Springs all round a pair 5psi bag in the rear and Bilstein shocks all round. do the steering dampener while you are at it. I fiited the lot about 2 years ago the difference over the standard was amazing. cheers Jack

[rick130]

Standard is fine if your carrying your lunch to work...King Springs all round a pair 5psi bag in the rear and Bilstein shocks all round. do the steering dampener while you are at it. I fiited the lot about 2 years ago the difference over the standard was amazing. cheers Jack

:eek:
Are you talking of a 130 with dual rear coils ?

I tare @ 3000kg most all the time (been over the weighbridge) and have removed the inner coils for better ride/more flex.

I'd need to be at or above GVM to justify the extra 140lb coils.

[edit] this is in a '98 130CC

[uninformed]

Shocks: Koni or Bilstein are the only 2 worth changing the OEM out for.

Springs: this is more a personal feel due to requirements and how you like it to ride. I have a 110 (yep its a different beast to the 130) I had the 320lb oem springs and found it to choppy for me. It is a tray back and when Im not towing I have very little weight on it (alloy tray) I run 250lb kings, no air bags.....even with the high towing km's I do I like it....now if it were more my toy I would go lighter again....

Listen to JC and Rick they will have a very good feel and understanding of the 130 and its OEM springs.....I doubt it worth the $$$ and trouble to do them....shocks yes....springs maybe not...unless you really want to play with things and get an old Boge Loadleveller and change the whole set up...but I doubt that.

[MIDDO]

Thanks for all the info people, it's appreciated. Is it possible to keep the standard shocks as most of you stated and to lift it by 2inch?? sorry I am new to all this, and what would I need to buy to do it.

[rick130]

Thanks for all the info people, it's appreciated. Is it possible to keep the standard shocks as most of you stated and to lift it by 2inch?? sorry I am new to all this, and what would I need to buy to do it.

D you only want to lift the front though ?

The rear is bloody high on a 130 already.

How high you can practically go all depends on what your bump stop height is now.

Put it on a flat piece of concrete and measure between the axle pad and bump stop, (stock is roughly around 60-65mm on earlier models, depending on what's mounted up front)

Bear in mind that lifting a TDci has caused a world of grief to a lot of people on here, apparently the entire driveline is tilted back at a greater angle than previous incarnations (TD5, Tdi, etc) and it puts the font driveshaft at a fearsome angle when lifted.
This seems to lead to vibrations/rapid failure of the uni's.

Land Rover Australia will also void your warranty with anything related to the suspension or driveline if you change/lift the suspension apparently.
There are quite a few threads on this here.
Have a search, it's caused a lot of heartache and gnashing of teeth.

With that little disclaimer out of the way........ :(

When lifting anything I like to go with longer dampers to maximise or at least retain droop, (if you raise your static ride height you reduce the amount the suspension can drop or sag, suspension people call it droop)

If you don't try and maximise droop travel, your recently lifted car will tend to lift wheels more readily off road than it has in the past in cross axle situations, limiting performance off road.

Maximising droop entails a bit of engineering and fabricating as the top shock absorber/damper mounts at the front need raising to accommodate the longer damper, etc.
If you just bolt a longer damper into the stock mounts, most times it's closed length will be quite a bit longer than the stock shock absorber, which means that the damper will go metal to metal before the suspension bottoms on the bump rubbers.
This isn't good, it destroys dampers internally.

Two alternatives are available to alleviate this.

1. Longer/spaced down bump rubbers.
This compromises bump (up) travel. This almost defeats the purpose of raising the suspension and fitting longer dampers.

2. Raising the top damper mount to maximise bump and droop travel.

This requires a bit of thought, a bit of measuring and re-engineering and a bit of fabrication, depending on what dampers you end up using.
One of the points to consider when doing this is the amount the bump rubbers compress. This compression can be up to 20mm.
Any less bump stop compression allowed and the dampers will go metal to metal

Another engineering point to consider is steering caster.
Raising the front end also reduces static caster.
Caster (the tilt of the steering king pin axis in plan/side view) gives the steering directional stability and self centring.
Depending on how high you go, this may be reduced to nothing, making the car wander terribly.

There are several 'fixes' for this, again ranging from the compromised and easy to the better and more difficult.

Easiest solution is caster corrected radius arm bushes.
These unfortunately compromise the already compromised articulation from using radius arms. ie. they limit wheel travel by having the bolt hole offset in the bush, full crush/distortion of the bush is limited, and this limits articulation.

Caster corrected radius arms are available, but these increase uni angles on the driveshaft, something the TDci doesn't like.

Slotting the swivel balls to increase caster is a good solution IMO, but the front end needs to come apart to do it, and there is a potential legality issue in doing this engineering modification.

Changing something like lifting a vehicle isn't easy, if you want to maximise the gains and do it properly ;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

awesome early morning post Rick,,

good coffee?;):p

[newhue]

Rick,
Does the cater correction part only start to become an issue after 2".

[All Ova]

Fitted Terrafirma Bigbore Expeditions and matching coils on my 2001 130 about two years ago, covered the Territory and the move to Canberra without missing a beat - awesome bits of kit, with out the lift.

[rick130]

Rick,
Does the cater correction part only start to become an issue after 2".

(Sorry Jason, I missed this)

Probably.

I tend to like a fair bit of castor in my cars, it gives directional stability, gives the steering some weight and feel and encourages self centring of the steering, yet I never 'fixed' it on the 130.
Even with 115mm between the bump stops it didn't wander, (it's down to 100mm now) but a 90 might be all over the road with the same lift.
Wheelbase has a fair bit to do with stability too.

I have read that Defenders have more standard castor than a Disco or RRC, but I don't know if this is correct, so this may give a little up our collective sleeves to play with.

If you are too lazy to do it properly like moi :angel:, you can just do the springs, then drive it to see if you can live with it.

[justinc]

Don't lift it. The 130 has good HD front springs, and the rear as rick says is high enough.
If you want more performance in rough stuff go for taller tyres. leave the standard ride height IMO.

JC