Defender - Useful Build Quality

[Simple_One]

Hi All,

I'm currently looking around for a traveling vehicle here in Aus. I'm keeping my options right open as I'm looking at everything from 4wd vans (Sprinter, T5 Transporter) through to Patrols, Cruisers and Defenders.

What I really wanted to know is, can you live with a defender when your not offroading? The reality is that I'll be doing a lot of road kilometers at 110-120 kph, sleeping in the vehicle in rain etc. Is the build quality of a defender good enough to do this without being driven nuts by wind noise, leaks and dust ingress?

I'm not really worried about things like panel fit etc (even wind noise isn't a geat issue) but crap dust seals and leaks will **** me off pretty quickly. Is there any aftermarket options to make a defender 'work' if it doesn't already do so from the factory these days?

I gather that production quality significantly improved after Ford got involved, but what year models are the best choice?

I'm not actually massively concerned about offroad ability, it's just a nice to have. I'm going to be traveling with my dirtbike, so really the 4wd is just staging platform from which to launch short day long to week long bike trips from and to eat up the long range km's.

Cheers

Kris

[lambrover]

I have a defender 2001 130 and have just done under 7000km over the last 2 months and I have had moments where I wanted to burn it. They are noisier than jap cars and hot inside I now have a big job of trying to get the cabin cooler and get the noise down as well. It also leaks water when it rains through the seals. I have/am considering moving to a discovery as these vehicles are built better and nicer to live with on a day to day basis.

[Blknight.aus]

the tdi's are electroncially simpler being the last of the mechanical diesels they're tweakable up to about baseline td5 power levels.

The td5s bring in the electronics but are still diagnosable without a computer IF you're willing to take the time to learn about them. The basics are still correct landrover style (2000-2007)

the pumas lost that in the initial run and have some shortfallings in the outback stakes. Running out of fuel needs special tools to sort its the biggest remaining issue other than its also no longer hose out. of All the landrovers its engine also had the shortest production run of 4-5 years before being swapped out. (2.4 version to 2.2 version)

[ugu80]

Don't get a Defender, they are for off road. Dust and water get in, and the water runs straight back out again. Clean up at the end of a trip is open the doors and hose it out.

Sounds like your after some creature comforts. Toyota and Nissans are good but pricey. Discoveries and, may I suggest, Pajeros are better value. Most Pajeros and a lot of Discos have never left the bitumen.

Violently disagree about Defers being hot. I think you mean that the air con is crap. They are the coolest non air con machine around. Flat, vertical windows don't catch the sun and just open the vents and the rear window and the air just flows through, the wind chill keeping you as cool as the crap air con does.

[Simple_One]

A lot of it will revolve around finding a good system for carrying the dirtbike. A van appeals because it's easy to lock up and keep everything secure and easy to carry tools like a compressor. The downside is it needs to be bloody huge as it turns out you need more room to store a moto than you would think...

I'm not really after creature comforts, it's more that the stuff that I want to be clean and dry, needs to stay clean and dry, beyond that I'm not very concerned. Other than that, I'm pretty tall at 6"3' and relatively wide shouldered and I'm a bit concerned about what I have read about the driving position in the defenders, particularly with the lack of adjustability in the position. A long haul drive in a cramped and awkward position could turn things into a chore pretty quickly. I'm going to scoot down to a dealer when I get back from work and have a sit in one, see how bad it really is.

I'm thinking a ute with a decent tray and some custom built storage boxes and a roof mounted sleeping area might be a good option. This all comes down to finding someone that makes a no bull**** and well built canvas pop top that doesn't leak.

The fuel economy and potential fuel range of a Defender definitely appeals but only if it still gives you the option of being able to overtake. Nothing worse than being stuck behind and truck only to find that you don't have the oomph to get past him when you finally get an overtaking opportunity :mad:
Not so much a problem in the wide open and flat areas, but a real issue if your following the coastal ranges...

The standard suspension of the defender is a definite plus from almost all angles, being ride quality, load carrying ability and offroad capability.

[Simple_One]

Argh!!

When is someone at Toyissanover gonna wake up and drop one of these new high performance diesel's into proper 4WD chassis like a patrol, cruiser or defender?

You look at the performance and fuel usage of the 3l CRD used in the Jeep Grand Cherokee, The 550-X Navara diesel, the BT-50 diesel (and the list could go on) and they just stomp all over the patrol, cruiser and landie diesels. The new 4.5 V8 in the cruisers isn't to bad, just held back buy the POS gearbox that they have bolted up to it...

[mools]

Sounds to me like you will definitely not want a Defender. Get something else and save yourself a headache. Don't get me wrong, I love them, I have one as my daily work 'car' I can live with it easily but that's me - I knew what I was buying when I got it. But you have specific criteria which the Defender will be hard placed to satisfy (dust proof being just one that springs to mind). If your not concerned about off road ability then just do not bother. Get a Japanese 4x4 or better still a van (Mercedes-Benz sprinters go like stink and have huge cargo space compared to any 4x4. Horses for courses I guess.

[Geezer]

A lot of it will revolve around finding a good system for carrying the dirtbike. A van appeals because it's easy to lock up and keep everything secure and easy to carry tools like a compressor. The downside is it needs to be bloody huge as it turns out you need more room to store a moto than you would think...

I'm not really after creature comforts, it's more that the stuff that I want to be clean and dry, needs to stay clean and dry, beyond that I'm not very concerned. Other than that, I'm pretty tall at 6"3' and relatively wide shouldered and I'm a bit concerned about what I have read about the driving position in the defenders, particularly with the lack of adjustability in the position. A long haul drive in a cramped and awkward position could turn things into a chore pretty quickly. I'm going to scoot down to a dealer when I get back from work and have a sit in one, see how bad it really is.

I'm thinking a ute with a decent tray and some custom built storage boxes and a roof mounted sleeping area might be a good option. This all comes down to finding someone that makes a no bull**** and well built canvas pop top that doesn't leak.

The fuel economy and potential fuel range of a Defender definitely appeals but only if it still gives you the option of being able to overtake. Nothing worse than being stuck behind and truck only to find that you don't have the oomph to get past him when you finally get an overtaking opportunity :mad:
Not so much a problem in the wide open and flat areas, but a real issue if your following the coastal ranges...

The standard suspension of the defender is a definite plus from almost all angles, being ride quality, load carrying ability and offroad capability.

Maybe a 4motion VW Transporter with a Hannibal roof top tent could be your answer?

[VK3UTE]

6"3' you wont fit:( You either fit in a defender or you don't.

[rick130]

6"3' you wont fit:( You either fit in a defender or you don't.

I'm 6'1,3/4" and fit ???

You raise the seat 20mm or so so that you can get the seat right back and the things comfy (as long as you aren't too wide)

Single cab utes are a hell of a lot tighter, though.

[jimb]

My 2 cents

Think perception is an issue when talking about comfort: seat height, heat in cabin, etc

As well as expectations.

Living in Mackay, quite warm, dark colored defender and have no issues with 'hot' cabin. Mind you I rarely use the air con either- just windows down.

Am 190cm tall but shortish legs and find driving position great. Yep, handbrake feels like it could be better placed but doesn't worry me.

Really think each person needs to drive one themselves to see how they react to it. Clearly less options in Defender but for some , less is more.


---
I am here: Google Maps

[VK3UTE]

[QUOTE=rick130;1608833]I'm 6'1,3/4" and fit ???



You should be able to turn the headlights on with your knee cap, Lol:D
I still love mine but, and Jimb summed it up I think saying "Less is more"

[isuzurover]

6"3' you wont fit:( You either fit in a defender or you don't.

I'm 6'3" and I fit :mad:

I even fit into my IIA ute, which has fer less room.


some points:
My better half recently commented that our county has the least comfortable seats of all our vehicles (other vehicles are a Disco 1 and a IIA with (1979) mitsubishi lancer seats. That has made me decide to replace the seats rather than refurb them.
After owning a disco, I hate the tiny back door on a 110 (wagon/hardtop).

Back to the OP's questions. We have travelled west-east or east-west (coast-coast) 5 times in the last 5 years in our 110 wagon. It has also been our sole vehicle for extended periods.

[PAT303]

Do a search as you can get different refurb kits for LR seats making them into anything you want.As for the defender I've just done 15K in 4 weeks in my Puma and I could not be happier but I'm a defender person,I don't see the point in the soccer mom cars that sell as 4wd's these days. Pat

[camel_landy]

The Defender is like Vegemite... You'll either love it or hate it!!!

From what you say, you might find that the Defender will really hack you off... Have you thought about something like a Disco3 or 4? The Disco is far more useable as a car.

The only way of telling if you'll like/fit the Defender is to get in one and go for a drive.

Build quality... You want to get yourself a 2007MY or later i.e. With the 2.4 TDCi Ford donk.

M

[isuzurover]

Do a search as you can get different refurb kits for LR seats making them into anything you want.

Umm, not quite. You can get retrim kits, OE shape foam kits, Puma/TD4 retrim kits that are covers/fabric only for crazy prices (GBP247 per seat). You can also get complete "premium" seats, at even scarier prices...

http://www.johncraddock-trim.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=748&category_id=33&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3

I cannot find any "refurb" kits which permit any significant upgrade of the foam. Unless you have found some other supplier than Exmoor Pat???

[Simple_One]

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback. Off to have a look at one today at a dealer and just see what sort of options it offers. Will get back to you all in the future.

Cheers

[Simple_One]

Okay, so had a sit in one and I suspect I could live with it. Pretty squeezy especially on the right shoulder, elbow and left knee, but there you go.

So my next thoughts:

1. Can you get some decent oomph out of the 2.4 or 2.2? (chasing around 130-150kw and 450Nm@2000)

2. Can you do anything about the horrendous turning circle?

3. Now that Maxi-Drive engineering are dead, can you still get quality parts for the Landies?
(The mechanic down the road does a lot of work on Landies and races an extensively modified Range Rover, his thoughts where that the diff and axles were crap compared to the Patrol).

The competition now is a 2007 or newer Patrol ute (3L CRD) fitted with air suspension all round. The only thing I don't like about the Patrol is the short wheelbase and massive overhang on the rear end.

[Blknight.aus]

MD is made at MR automotive.

[isuzurover]

...The only thing I don't like about the Patrol is the short wheelbase and massive overhang on the rear end.

The Patrol is 117" WB. A Defender 130 is 127". If you really want the extra 10" then there are places who will extend the chassis for you for a few $k, fully approved.

As for your points about the landie.
You can buy a kit to move the handbrake out of the way.
1. Upgrade chips are available
2. No option apart from fitting rear steer ($$$$)
3. Ashcroft Transmissions is probably your best option for upgrade bits these days (owners are on this site). As mentioned MD were bought out by MR Auto, except for Barry at Hi-Tough, who was 2IC at MDE, and bought the axle making business.

[Simple_One]

Yep, just been talking to someone about that today, more affordable than i thought.