A Straw Poll re Holden Conversions.

[geodon]

OK!

Who out there is truly happy with their Holden conversions?

I understand the 4WD limitations of oil & fuel starvation on serious inclines.

My queries (doubts??) relate instead to mechanical reliabilty and longevity. It seems that the LR/Holden marriage is not a happy one in the long term. I asked a major (but nameless) LR spares supplier did he know anyone who was completley satisfied with his/her Holden conversion and he replied he did not.

However, to quote the immortal words of working girl Mandi Rice-Davies when told the British Defence Minister had denied having sex with her: "Well, he would say that wouldn't he?"

MY situation is that I feel spending serious $$ on repairs to go back to the Holden scenario is false economy & I would be better off using the $$ to source LR bits & go back to a 2.25.

Comments?

[Jeff]

I had two Series 2As with Holden conversions. One was a hardtop that I used for a lot of off roading, it had a very worn 2.6 Rover engine when I bought it and we put a 202 into it. The road performance was good, only the gearing was a problem, until I fitted 35" tyres. Off road the carby was the only problem on steep climbs, apart from that, I was happy with it.

My other one was a wagon with a 186 on gas, with a Cabstar gearbox, that I bought set up like that. Apart from the engine being worn out when I got it, it went well and was cheap to run, cheaper than the TDi Defender I replaced it with.

In between I had another 2A with a 2.6 Rover Six that went ok, but I didn't keep it that long, then the next owner fitted a Holden motor.

This was in the 80s and 90s when Holden dealers were more likely to carry bits than now. It is many years since they were made, but I suppose even longer since LR made the 2.6.

Jeff

:rocket:

[pfillery]

I can say I am honestly and truly happy with my Holden conversion in my LR. I bought the car about 18 months ago with the conversion (series 3 lwb hardtop standard drivetrain and very well executed 186 conversion - if you painted it a different colour you wouldn't know it was non genuine). I converted it to gas about 6 months ago and it has been great. Sits on 80 on the highway and cruises happily all day at about 2600rpm, according to the tacho anyway, I can do 100 but gets noisier. I am about to go to an overdrive to squeeze a little more economy and efficiency out of her but at present the cost of the LPG was recovered in just under 3 months of commuting. I do 450km a week normally and on gas the cost is around $40. Cheaper than our xtrail.

If I was to criticize anything about the conversion it would be the way the cooling system has been done and the thermal fan setup. This is something I'll be changing in due course thanks to a very nice radiator from a donor car. Also she uses a landrover starter not a holden one which is unusual. I can't comment on offroad ability as I haven't done much. The car is a commuter primarily. Generally I am happy and spares seem to be easy to find and still cheap. New water pump last year at $45 and that has been all.

[Johnno1969]

For the first ten years I owned my IIA it had, firstly, a 173 in it when I bought it, which was replaced with a 186 a mate gave me when the 173 died. Both went reasonably well and the 186 served me for most of that decade with no real problems. I had basically no experience of Series Landies when I bought the vehicle in 1991, but along the way I got to drive a few others with their original 2.25 motors (petrol and diesel) and was amazed at how much better they pulled down low and how much more enjoyable they were to drive in the bush than my own vehicle. I know that if somebody is prepared to tinker they could end up with the "perfect" Holden engine for their Landy - and really what works for people really depends upon their own tastes or demands - but once I'd driven Landies with original motors I resolved to turf the Holden motor as soon as I could afford it.

I put a 2.25 diesel in the vehicle in 2001 and have loved driving the vehicle ever since. It may sound like a joke, given the engine's hardly-high-performance reputation, but the 2.25 transformed my land Rover. Suddenly it was more tractable, less "busy" to drive in tough situations and chugged through feeling very unstressed. It does not have the top-end of the Holden six, but that's fine with me. It's been 100% reliable (knock wood) and much lighter on fuel than the Holden engine was.

Like I say, which engine is a horses for courses choice: but for me, I enjoy the simplicity of everything being original and straightforward and the vehicle performs well.

Cheers,

John

[pfillery]

Before I put the gas in I toyed with the idea of returning the vehicle to a landrover engine. However the way the silly laws are here in Qld, because the car has been mod plated for the fitting of the holden 6, even if returned to exactly original specs, it would require re-engineering and the fitting of another mod plate (the holden conversion one also needs to remain fitted for the life of the vehicle) so I would essentially have to get it all inspected again and have what would be a standard vehicle but with 2 superfluous mod plates.

[CraigE]

It depnds what sort of conversion you are talking about. The 186/202 type conversions are now getting a bit dated. Parts are available but getting harder to get. There have been issues with fuel starvation on inclines with carbies but this can be overcome by fitting a decent Holley or similar that does not starve on steep inclines. We did this to my BILs Series 1 that had a 186. I think it was a 350 Holley from memory, maybe a marine version???? There are others and it will also take some playing with jetting. I know we did a bit of hunting to find a suitable carby and we got some advice from a Holley specialist as certain versions were not suitable. It ran fine after that.
Then there are the V8 conversions and the guys I know that have or have had these have been more than happy. Especially with the availability of parts.

[Bigbjorn]

Most people who have had problems with a Holden conversion have not done the job properly. Most acquired a worn used engine and just stuck it in without rebuild or modification to make it suitable for a radically different application to that for which it was designed.

The oil pick up and fuel delivery on inclines are easily fixed. Suitable reshaping of the sump and fitting baffles fixes the oil pickup. I always recommend a high volume oil pump. A plastic (petroleum resistant) packing piece to fill excess space in the float bowl fixes the other. An additional electric fuel pump, a fuel pressure regulator, and an excess fuel return line to the tank are also good moves. Talk to a cam grinder about a suitable regrind to extend the comfortable operating range that does not drastically affect low speed performance. Red heads need a good clean out of the ports and maybe removal of the pillar in the middle of the ports and low head Unbrakos in the port floor. A decent exhaust system is a plus. Extractors are not necessary unless you are going to multiple carburettors. Fit a decent free flowing big bore system. I favour the 186S style cast iron headers with two separate 2 1/4" systems all the way to the back. If using a red engine, get the rods and crankshaft from a blue engine. The crankshaft will need minor modification to fit the red block. Any competent recon shop can do this.

[geodon]

Ye Gods! I forgot about the VicRoads bureauocracy! (sp??)

Mine was last registered with a 186.

I wonder if I will have to reverse-engineer it???

I'd better call them before I jump.

[JayBoRover]

I've been very happy with the Holden 202 conversion in my S2a. Even though I have had a gearbox failure, I am completely convinced this was due to poor installation (there were only 5 bolts attaching the bell housing to the adapter plate and 3 of those were several threads loose!) by the previous owner. Mine is on LPG and has the higher ratio diff's to make highway cruising a little more bearable.

However, I also have a 2.25 genuine engine from my donor car that I plan, one day, to use as a replacement for the 202 Holden engine. I just like the idea of returning the car to more original. I've already removed the power steering and white spoke wheels and wide tyres and put on genuine wheels and tyres. I do wonder whether I'll ever actually make the change though, as it goes well with the Holden on gas. Simply buying another S2a already fitted with a 2.25 would be much simpler and I suspect maybe even cheaper in the long run.

I'll be watching what you do very carefully.:cool:
Cheers
JayBo

[Bigbjorn]

For the first ten years I owned my IIA it had, firstly, a 173 in it when I bought it, which was replaced with a 186 a mate gave me when the 173 died. Both went reasonably well and the 186 served me for most of that decade with no real problems. I had basically no experience of Series Landies when I bought the vehicle in 1991, but along the way I got to drive a few others with their original 2.25 motors (petrol and diesel) and was amazed at how much better they pulled down low and how much more enjoyable they were to drive in the bush than my own vehicle. I know that if somebody is prepared to tinker they could end up with the "perfect" Holden engine for their Landy - and really what works for people really depends upon their own tastes or demands - but once I'd driven Landies with original motors I resolved to turf the Holden motor as soon as I could afford it.

I put a 2.25 diesel in the vehicle in 2001 and have loved driving the vehicle ever since. It may sound like a joke, given the engine's hardly-high-performance reputation, but the 2.25 transformed my land Rover. Suddenly it was more tractable, less "busy" to drive in tough situations and chugged through feeling very unstressed. It does not have the top-end of the Holden six, but that's fine with me. It's been 100% reliable (knock wood) and much lighter on fuel than the Holden engine was.

Like I say, which engine is a horses for courses choice: but for me, I enjoy the simplicity of everything being original and straightforward and the vehicle performs well.

Cheers,

John

I find it very hard to believe the above claims of better performance.

A Land Rover 2.25 petrol engine has 70.5 bhp and 16.5 m/kg of torque and a diesel has 62.0 bhp and 14.2 m/kg of torque. These are Land Rovers own figures quoted in the Land Rover Series III Salesman's Manual.

A Holden 202 has 135 bhp and 26.77 m/kg of torque in standard trim as fitted to HQ & LJ.

Your 173 is recorded as 118 bhp and 23.21 m/kg.

Obviously the Holden is going to be a far better performer.

[mick88]

I have a 179 bored to a 186 (0.0625" oversize) in a Series 3 SWB and it has served me well for 10-11 years as a daily driver. I have Range Rover banjo's (3.54) fitted and an electronic dizzy from a later model Holden and it returns 21 mpg running about. The dizzy increased it from 19-21 mpg.
It's great to drive..handles highway speeds, not that i flogg it! 90 kmh is a good speed. Here our summer temps can be 40+ and the electric fan runs a bit more at low speed or idle...so what...she handles it! There are not a lot of hills around here so I have not experienced the fuel starvation problem. If that happened I would fix it.
I just love to drive it!

Cheers, Mick

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I've had them all and will agree that from stop the Land Rover engines are very easy with plenty of torque. That is pretty much where the benefits end, in fact my 253V8 109 was even easier from stop and just idled over obstacles much better than any Rover or Holden straight six.

Yes there are problems with the Holden straight sixes but as Brian suggests, the oil starvation was solved by work on the sump. My choice was to get a sump from a HT Holden because it has the bulge in the centre so doesn't suffer the oil starvation. Lowering the float level in the carby was another solution for flooding.

Using an engine from a manual car or changing the cam was always preferable. Using a later plastic fan or electric pusher fans gives better airflow and fitting an external oil cooler added additional volume of cooled oil which solved the overheating problems.

I still prefer a Holden engine with standard diff ratios and a Roverdrive overdrive rather than a high speed transfer case, if only for easier starts.

[Johnno1969]

I find it very hard to believe the above claims of better performance.

A Land Rover 2.25 petrol engine has 70.5 bhp and 16.5 m/kg of torque and a diesel has 62.0 bhp and 14.2 m/kg of torque. These are Land Rovers own figures quoted in the Land Rover Series III Salesman's Manual.

A Holden 202 has 135 bhp and 26.77 m/kg of torque in standard trim as fitted to HQ & LJ.

Your 173 is recorded as 118 bhp and 23.21 m/kg.

Obviously the Holden is going to be a far better performer.

All understood - but my IIA definitely became more tractable to drive once I put a Rover motor back in it. Like I said, there can be big differences between individual motors too. A number of people drove the vehicle both before and after the change and all noticed the same things. It definitely doesn't have the top speed that it used to, but is definitely more comfortable doing what it does in every other situation.

[geodon]

The VicRoads Vehice Safety Branch advised that if I am going back to factory specs & it involves no cutting & welding of engine mounts etc then no engineering certification is required.

[Homestar]

Many years ago, I fully rebuild my brothers IIA - when he bought it, it had a running, but clapped out 2.25 in it, which was hard work on and off road.

We did a full - and proper 202 conversion in it - rebuilt engine, with new camshaft, baffled sump, 350 holley carb, high flow oil pump, etc, etc. Got it fully engineered - had to upgrade the brakes, fit seat belts, demister, etc. Bottom line is, it went brilliantly - on and off the road. Would sit on 100 if you wanted to put up with the noise and the fuel usage...:p

Having said that, we didn't know at the time about correctly aligning the gearbox and engine - we assumed the commersially made adaptor took care of that - WRONG! One knackered gearbox later, and a trip to an engineer to get everything aligned properly, it never played up after that.

Pity it got sold on as we were young, and we went on to other things (Women):p wish I could find the old girl again, I really put in some time on that one...

[geodon]

Thanks to all sages & punters for your highy valued input!

I've decided that EVENTUALLY, I'd like to make this truck original but I'm at the stage of installing the drivetrain NOW.

So I will stay with the 186 ATM.

I've been persuaded by the availability of a serviceable gearbox, a VERY well made adaptor, both clutch plates & a flywheel for a reasonable price.

The current 186 runs OK albeit with compression on No. 6 down about 20%. It didn't come up at all when I squirted oil down the plughole suggesting a valve problem so I may take the head off & have a bit of a poke around. It should run for a while regardless.

The Land Rover conversion can be done (much) later giving me time to source the bits prob via the purchase of a non-restorable car with orig mechanicals.

[incisor]

only thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned is the weight of the motors and the torque band..

the holden is much lighter and it does make a fair bit of difference to the capabilities offroad as the front end can get away from you much quicker..

and you have to have more revs on the boil to get the grunt to do a few things.

last but not least... it isnt a small job to take on back to being landy powered :p

so many little things....

[isuzurover]

I find it very hard to believe the above claims of better performance.

A Land Rover 2.25 petrol engine has 70.5 bhp and 16.5 m/kg of torque and a diesel has 62.0 bhp and 14.2 m/kg of torque. These are Land Rovers own figures quoted in the Land Rover Series III Salesman's Manual.

A Holden 202 has 135 bhp and 26.77 m/kg of torque in standard trim as fitted to HQ & LJ.

Your 173 is recorded as 118 bhp and 23.21 m/kg.

Obviously the Holden is going to be a far better performer.

Brian, you might be surprised.

Jack Hallam (sp?) in LROCB had a 2.25D that had the injector pump worked over by rocklea diesel. It blew plumes of smoke under power, but would beat 202 powered landies up hills.

My own 2.25D, with nothing more than breathing mods (intake and extractors) and pump advance spring mods, could beat JasonK's 109" (almost identical vehicle, except I had 33's and he 7.50s) up cunningham's gap.

EDIT:

Back on topic, I have met a few people who have been happy with their holden conversions. One such person commented to me that most conversions leave the motor in a bad position resulting in poor cooling. That and gearing are I think the 2 main things that need sorting for a holden conversion.

[Davo]

Geez, you all must be at work to have replied so quickly to this thread! :p

Anyway, I had a 202 in my SIIA when I bought it in '89, and not knowing anything at all about cars I just got annoyed with it over time. It just seemed to run out puff, (not enough torque down low, I realised). During the cars first rebuild in '94 I put a rebuilt 2&1/4 petrol in.

I have regretted it ever since. Even though the engine does indeed have those good low-speed characteristics as mentioned, at the end of the day it's a small, heavy motor that belongs in something small and light, like an 80", where it could do some good. It well-and-truly does not have the power it needs for a loaded 109" - and I've done about as many upgrades on this motor as you can do.

Now, with hindsight, I can see that what I should have done was to neaten up the conversion, (which included a flame-cut front crossmember and a messy angle iron radiator frame), and sort out the cam for more torque in the right place, and then do something about the gearing. I used to start off in second.

I think they are brilliant engines, with a strong but simple design, side plates for lifter access, timing gears, an oil pump hanging off the side, and now a whole pile of performance gear since they're still used for racing. I learned to work on engines with the 202 and it was the best introduction I could have asked for.

Now, I'm stalled in the middle of changing the car to a Stage I spec, having done the axles and brakes, but not quite ready to do the rest of the drivetrain. I keep wondering if I could just instead find a way to mate a 202 to the LT95 I've got, since the only worry about the conversion was the weak gearbox. I like the Rover V8 as an engine, too, but the Holden is just that much simpler and easier to get parts for that I wouldn't mind one again.

[geodon]

Punters, I thought you may be interested to know that after a few months on the road, I believe I made the right decision to stay with the GMH motor.

Although, it did help to have a friendly source of parts. (Thanks, Hayno!)

I have bought a late S3 to get the 2.25 motor (with a 15 amp alternator- ya gotta love Joe Lucas!) I then sold off the carcass but the motor is still on the engine stand siezed.

I really love the grunt of the 186 & am prepared to put up with a top speed of 47.5 MPH.

I'm thinking of getting a sign for the rear dropside that says :

2SLOW2BAD

[mick88]

Many years ago, I fully rebuild my brothers IIA - when he bought it, it had a running, but clapped out 2.25 in it, which was hard work on and off road.

We did a full - and proper 202 conversion in it - rebuilt engine, with new camshaft, baffled sump, 350 holley carb, high flow oil pump, etc, etc. Got it fully engineered - had to upgrade the brakes, fit seat belts, demister, etc. Bottom line is, it went brilliantly - on and off the road. Would sit on 100 if you wanted to put up with the noise and the fuel usage...:p

Having said that, we didn't know at the time about correctly aligning the gearbox and engine - we assumed the commersially made adaptor took care of that - WRONG! One knackered gearbox later, and a trip to an engineer to get everything aligned properly, it never played up after that.

Pity it got sold on as we were young, and we went on to other things (Women):p wish I could find the old girl again, I really put in some time on that one...

Any idea who manufactured the conversion?
If it utilised the Land Rover starter motor then it most likely used the Land Rover flywheel which would give you approx 4-5 kg of extra flywheel weight. A big improvement on pulling power. Only today I weighed some flywheels,... standard Holden is 11kg, Marks Nissan Cabstar to Holden flywheel is 13.6 kg, standard Land Rover, standard Land Rover is 14
kg and Holden conversion utililising Land Rover flywheel is 16 kg as it has a large adaptor boss bolted up to it. The later uses the Land Rover starter motor. I am not sure who manufactured it, maybe Dellow Automotive.
I would appreciate if anyone could throw some light on this!

Cheers, Mick.

[Homestar]

Hmmm, it was a long time ago. I can't remember the manufacturer of the kit, but it was a cast alloy adaptor, came with a new bronze spigot bush, engine mounts and.... Can't remember...

We had to cut a small bit out of one of the engine mounts to clear the exhaust, I remember them being a nice bit of kit.

It was a good kit though - came with everything (except a warning about aligning the gearbox:mad:). It may have even had radiator hoses but not 100% sure on that one.

IIRC it used the standard series pressure plate and clutch plate - the flywheel was thicker than a Holden one - I don't think we redrilled the Holden flywheel, it could have been a custom unit bought along with the kit. It was a no expense spared conversion so everything was done just right, but I just can't remember.

It was back in the day when the conversions were just starting to loose popularity, but it was still reasonably easy to get. I think it even came with instructions on sectioning the front crossmember.

[bobslandies]

Hmmm, it was a long time ago. I can't remember the manufacturer of the kit, but it was a cast alloy adaptor, came with a new bronze spigot bush, engine mounts and.... Can't remember...

We had to cut a small bit out of one of the engine mounts to clear the exhaust, I remember them being a nice bit of kit.

It was a good kit though - came with everything (except a warning about aligning the gearbox:mad:). It may have even had radiator hoses but not 100% sure on that one.

IIRC it used the standard series pressure plate and clutch plate - the flywheel was thicker than a Holden one - I don't think we redrilled the Holden flywheel, it could have been a custom unit bought along with the kit. It was a no expense spared conversion so everything was done just right, but I just can't remember.

It was back in the day when the conversions were just starting to loose popularity, but it was still reasonably easy to get. I think it even came with instructions on sectioning the front crossmember.

If alloy it sounds like a Dellow kit:mad: Don't know how many were non-axial and needed remachining.:(

Bob

[criggie]

Punters, I thought you may be interested to know that after a few months on the road, I believe I made the right decision to stay with the GMH motor.
...
I really love the grunt of the 186 & am prepared to put up with a top speed of 47.5 MPH.

Seems slow... I have a 1973 series 3 SWB which had a 186 and now sports a 202. With both motors I could reach 65 mph, but it was loud. We can pootle down the road at 55 mph all day (on LPG no less)

Have you got freewheeling front hubs?
Is it breathing okay? Please tell me you have the paper air filter not a bodged tube to the oil-bath air filter ?

I've had mine for over 6 years now, and have religiously kept speedo/fuel figures for the time (except the times when the speedo drive cable was broken) and the one thing I see is that mileage was better on the 186 than the 202. If you want I can post that info .

[mick88]

We are currently on a four day trip touring about in our Landy at the moment and yesterday we travelled from Mildura to Tocumwal via Swan Hill and Deniliquin. It was a shocking day for wind with huge gusts, mainly side winds for us, but a tail wind every so often and the Landy returned 24 miles per gallon (8.5 kpl or 11.76/100). We cruise at 90 kmh which is comfortable and reasonably smooth and quiet, but occasionally i find the speed has crept up to 100-103. With the romerdrive engaged and the 3.54 diffs it's doing about 2200 rpm at 90 kmh. (Holden 186 motor). Overall makes for a reasonable vehicle to tour the countryside in. Took it on an overnighter to Mungo National Park last week and sitting on around 75-80 kmh (without the romerdrive engaged) and it delivered much the same economy.

Cheers, Mick.

[LR4WD]

Once-upon-a-time, as an 18yo, my 2nd car was a 1970 (never convinced, but that's what the rego lable said) SIII SWB fitted with a red 161.....and Toyota Land Cruiser semi floating axles of about the same vintage.
Being a young bloke, the 161 (was a bit tired) developed a knock, and was replaced by a nicely running HT 186S I bought from a mate of my brothers for $50!!! - cast headers & dual throat stromburg & all.
This got dressed up with polished cast alloy rocker & side covers, chrome dipstick etc - all this stuff was common then at my local AutoPro store.
No idea of the (all drum) axle ratios, but it flew.
Mum's fella at the time had a current MQ 2.8litre petrol (so similar cc capacity, but would have been heavier) Patrol LWB wagon, which I could drag off at will (& did often.....)
I did have to fix the gearbox twice in 4 years of abuse (Boronia, Eastern suburbs Melb, has "Forest Road" - I could 4 wheel drift around it's corners on 7.50x16 bar treads in the wet, as long as I kept my recovery gear & tool box in the back, otherwise the back end would break away & be nigh on imposable to catch with the SWB)
I never experienced a 2.25L to compare it with, but I was very happy with it as a package - great car.

[geodon]

Criggie, sorry I took so long to get back here! Stock air cleaner! I had FW hubs but I took them off.

Yes it gets too loud. It also feels wrong.

After decades of MANY old cars, I can easily detect an engine's "sweet spot". On mine it's def below 50MPH.

I don't doubt it will do 65MPH but I don't like driving with ear muffs and I want it to last a good while while I do up the 2.25.

[rangieman]

Sorry i just can not resist this thread any longer :eek: The holden engine is a or was a cheap repower ,
In my opinion i would,nt ive owned one They can not handle over reving in standard form they self distruct they dont have torque no engine braking and the list goes on .
I would have a healthy 2 1/4 litre over any holden 6 any time .
Have you driven a healthy LR 4 ? they realy are not slugs;)

[geodon]

O Forum Sage, I agree with you. Buuuuuuut, faced with NO choice I repaired the Holden. It took me over 12 months to find a 2.25 with an alternator (mine had had the Lucas generator/regulator electrics gutted) and it was seized. I expect the 2.25 to be ready in a year or so.

You're right that the 2.25 revs higher safely cf to the GMH unit. Torque? For serious 4WD-ing, yes! Mine is mainly used to service a small acreage and fetch fencing stuff, collect plants, compost and the like, tip runs etc. The Holden does it well albeit SLOWLY!

I've engaged 4WD in anger only twice when I got bogged in a paddock and to pull out a big Yucca stump that laughed at the Fergy's effort; low ratio 4WD & it came out at a little over idling speed.

[Homestar]

Well, after a lot of deliberating, I'm going to take the Series III back to a standard Rover 6 now. I have it sitting in my trailer taking it on a scenic tour of the East coast.:D

Condition of the engine is unknown but from what I can glean from the PO and having a look at it, I think it can be bought back to life.

Will make rego heaps easier too.

Everyone I spoke to over the weekend who own, or have owned one say they are great engines. Yes, they can burn exhaust valves, but with good maintenance and he low KM it will do, then it should be fine.

So, when I rip the Holden engine out, I'll be posting a for sale for it and the conversion kit if someone want to go dawn that path. Engine is a good runner.

[mick88]

Well, after a lot of deliberating, I'm going to take the Series III back to a standard Rover 6 now. I have it sitting in my trailer taking it on a scenic tour of the East coast.:D

Condition of the engine is unknown but from what I can glean from the PO and having a look at it, I think it can be bought back to life.

Will make rego heaps easier too.

Everyone I spoke to over the weekend who own, or have owned one say they are great engines. Yes, they can burn exhaust valves, but with good maintenance and he low KM it will do, then it should be fine.

So, when I rip the Holden engine out, I'll be posting a for sale for it and the conversion kit if someone want to go dawn that path. Engine is a good runner.

The Rover six is equivalent in capacity to a Holden 161, how does it compare on bore and stroke sizes? I know that they are strong pullers. A mate had an ex army series 3 with one in it and it went well. I have one in a late model 2A that runs but I have not driven it as it has a gearbox failure.

Cheers, Mick.

[rawene]

I have a 1981 S3 LWB with a Red 202. All the running gear is standard except 4th has longer legs. I've had her almost 17 years, and for the first 10 doubt I even changed the oil, (it was a weekender / bush basher that only owed me $1000). I do a lot of highway driving now and cruise at about 95, but can go over 100 easily, but hey, she's old and don't want to push my luck. I do plenty of off roading too. I've had no problems with the oil pick up or petrol flooding on inclines. It is pretty thirsty though, and noisy on the highway, mostly gearbox whine I think.

Anyway, that said, I've only had to replace the water pump ($50) in 17 years, and maybe 200,000ks. I did change to electronic ignition which helped starting and cold running. And for the last 6 or 7 years I've been splashing out on oil and filters every 10ks….

Maybe I've been lucky but my landie 202 mix is brilliant and trouble free. Although I think I did mention the petrol usage…...

[Uglitom]

I did a conversion on my s3 swb after
The original motor blew a week after I bought it. At the time I didn't want to but even with engineering it was by far the cheapest option. It was fairly straightforward, worked well, parts were cheap as chips twin su on an x2 manifold with an electric fuel pump handled things fairly well across a variety of terrains and a monster flexi fan from the local speed shop kept it all reasonably cool. It did rev higher, but keeping the speed down fixed that.

[plus 30]

Hello,
I have read some of the claims stated, and see that there are some interesting comments, however there seems to be little to admit that there are a great many different uses that the Land Rovers are put to and this is the major factor detirmining the reliability and practicality of doing a Holden conversion.
For example if a Land Rover used is rarely driven on the open road at any speed, gearing will likely not be an issue.
But if driven at around 100 - 110 kmh then it will be!

I have experience with several conversions and all have been set up differently.
We used Land Rovers on relative flat sandy land on the farm, and also used it on the highway carting way for the pigs and for shooting and fishing trips.

My first experience was when I was a early teenager with my father's 1969 original 6cyl Holden converted series 2 A this had had a hard life at Carnarvon in West Australia used for professional roo shooting, this conversion was less than ideal and we used the 179 fitted for a while, once we overcame the caterpiller yellow paint instide the distrubitor, carbie and just about everywere except the glass.

After breaking three rear axles we removed the Holden pressure plate and fitted a Land Rover one, that helped considerably!
The gearbox conversion plate was a cast iron one and it had also cracked from rough ground. Aluminum plates are much better but dust getting into them is a problem which seems to helps break series 3 pressure plates.

One issue which should have been addressed was the low gearing, while this was not an issue in the narrow lanes in England, it was a considerable deficiency in the open Australian landscape,
Later we fitted a Fairey Overdrive which almost resolved this gearing issue, of course at that time conversion ratio diffs were expensive!

The Land Rover electric fuel pump was by passed and the Holden pump fitted after making clearance on the 6cyl engine mounting.

I also rebuild the gearbox after an inspection to investigate a bearing noise revealed it had lost all of its oil and the bronze bush had broken. That was just normal wear and tear.

After some time, at the finish the replacement reverse gear was stripped of three teeth, this was related to a couple of factors 1, the replacement being too soft, and 2 a combination of the Holden power and agressive driving by my brothers )
We also had a problem with the chassis cross member from below the bell housing, which fell out!
This was due to the stumps my brother did not drive around, and not a Holden conversion problem, we welded it back in!

We also had a problem with the coil blowing up one day, this was a conversion problem, but related with the person concerned not having enough knowlege about ignition systems and putting too much voltage through the Holden coil.
We also had a problem with engine cooling, but again this was due the the previous owners lack of knowlege about what he was doing, he had removed the thermostat, which in such a conversion causes the engine to overheat! ( in a Holden it is a different result )
In due course we fitted a complete 186 from our HK station wagon untill it wore out.
To shorten this story we ended up scrapping the old girl and getting a series 3 ute project and making one from the two.

The series 3 ute ( which was an ex APB vehicle ) was purchased from Dowerin in the WA wheat belt and it had been abused, the Holden 186K X2 engine was well past its best, being overheated by no thermostat again.
The conversion had not been completed very well and the radiator pannel had been butchered to avoid extending the bonnet.
The front chassis member had been cut out and not replaced, so another case of the conversion person being a butcher!
During the restoration I welded in a replacement cross member and fitted a replacement radiator pannel and extended the bonnet by 4".

This was a body off complete rebuild, and all of the mechanical componets were rebuilt by myself this was about 1982.
This vehicle was fitted with a 186 I totally rebuilt, with a new stock grind cam, modified head with V8 valves and ported like Yella Terra, this engine was fully balanced which made a difference too.
I did the head work too as I was working at a engine recon shop at the time.
The engine had the standard carbie and extractors I custom made from a an old worn out set.
This engine performed absolutely great for our purposes, and had plenty of torque, but may not have suited other persons uses in other conditions.

We tried refitting the original oil bath filter, but that was obviously too small in air capacity, and increased the fuel consumption considerably and soon was removed.

My Father also purchased a new series 3 in 1981 to use around the farm and for Fire fighting Officer duties, so we soon had two Land Rovers in use.
I also drove the new series 3, and the engine performance was absolutely dreadful by comparison, it used a litre of oil a week from almost new!

On the highway it took all day to wind up to any decent speed.
As soon as the 12 month warranty was over I swaped to a non polution correct size Holden carbie which stoped some of the spluttering from the engine, but it was still hopeless!

After a couple of years I fitted the 202 engine from our rusted HQ station wagon this woke it up, but understandably still was not as good as the recon 186 I had built up for the Ute Land Rover.

From then we had two series 3 Land Rovers on the farm, the biggest issues with these two Land Rovers were the brakes needing frequent overhauls due to the sandy quarts sand scoring the drums and wet winter conditions seizing the wheel cylinders.
We also had to rebuild the main gearboxes on a regular bassis due to the cluster wear on first gear and the first second synro hubs breaking the corners, but now I know that both of these were possibly due to the rough driving by my brothers rather than any conversion related issues.

In all the three Land Rovers converted to Holden we had, served us well and from working on other 4WD vehicles from my trade, it appears that no other 4WD would have performed much different GIVEN THE CONDITIONS IN WHICH WE PUT THEM T0!
Most 4WDs have their week points and many of us change our vehicles because we want a shiny new one, rather than for any practicle purpose, or financial reason!

Now I have both of these Land Rover parked on my property waiting for further refurbishments after being off the road for almost 15 years when my father finished with them.

I now have just purchased another two, a series 2a and a stage one and also have the bones of a an original 6yl converted to Holden this was not up to my standards of conversion and somehow had managed to crack the Land Rover bell housing, which is something that we never managed to do on the farm, so I don't know what they did to it!

Currently after a long spell away from Land Rovers I am starting to get a couple back on the road, and for see no real issues apart from the usual noise and uncomfortable cab issues.

I do have another spare parts conversion series 3 ( another APB one ) which again had the radiator conversion issue dealt with poorly.

There are good conversions, and bad conversions, there are good drivers and there are bad drivers ( often refered as steerers )
Everthing is relative to circumstances, what is a good vehicle for one person, can be a disater for another person if certain factors are wrong!

Mike

[Phil B]

thats if you are prepared to drive a Holden....

[creature]

s3 landy 109, 202 with cam and carby and exhaust mods is great all round other than the fact that the original gearing is useless!! Fix that and your set!

[Lionelgee]

s3 landy 109, 202 with cam and carby and exhaust mods is great all round other than the fact that the original gearing is useless!! Fix that and your set!


Hello Creature,

I have a 202 as well.

How would you go about "fixing" the gearing? Have you solved it by putting in a later model Land Rover box or stuck an auto in? Or have you gone over to dark side and Toyota-ed or Nissan-ed it?

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Bigbjorn]

Change to 3.54 diffs from Range Rovers and County's

[Homestar]

Even better - fit a high ratio transfer case - available from Ashcorfts. Brings the hi range gearing up 30% without effecting low range.:). About 300 quid plus shipping. You then just need to build it up using some bits from your existing transfer case.

But, if your not worried about your low range gearing becoming higher, the the diff centre swap is easier and cheaper.

[mick88]

Or a "Roamerdrive", just not the cheapest option.
Variation in tire profiles can have an effect on road speed/engine revs too!
The other aspect of fitting 3.54's is that they slow the overall transmission speed down by 8-900 rpm at highway speeds ~90kph.
Less noise, less wear n tear, less oil spraying about underneath ;)












Cheers, Mick.

[Farmer]

I am extremely happy with my series III LWB , it has a Holden 186 engine electronic ignition extractors weber carby 5 speed box I have climbed some steep hills on the farm and never had an issue with starving for fuel or flooding sits on 100klms an hour easy not sure if it's had high ratio diffs put under it.