Whaling protestors - controversial thread!!!

[pfillery]

So who thinks that the idiotic australians who jumped aboard that Japanese security vessel (wasn't even a whaling boat) should have been thrown to the dogs and left to fend for themselves?

I think at least they should charge them with the cost of their pickup by the customs ship, said to be in the several hunderd thousand dollar range.

Sure I disagree with whaling, and if they want to play cat and mouse with the whaling ships, so be it. But to board a vessel in international waters is either an act of priacy or an act of war and should be treated as such. As a taxpayer I'd rather my share goes to more teachers, nurses or cops than the cost of collecting someone performing an acto of terrorism.

Thats just my thoughts, what does everyone else think?

[weeds]

Gotta agree....sure they are making the news for a good cause but I don't get how they can away with it esp the cost to us tax payers

[HBWC]

i've emailed them how to stop the whaling but they wont listen

its quite simple start hunting japs for scientific purposes and refuse to stop till they stop whaling


then the protesters might stop their stupidity how long till they start getting killed?

[digger]

It was an obviously pre planned move. Why is it the "Friends of the forest" group are involved here?... where is the forest?:confused:

Apparently one of the reasons that they needed to be returned was that allegedly one of them didnt take his ADHD medication with him when he boarded!!

I agree that it was an act of clear piracy and that in reality the Japanese could have used lethal force to repel these people from getting aboard!
I believe that the Sea Shephard and its associated ships are also breaching maritime safety laws by their aggressive tactics (like cutting in front of a larger vessel and expecting the vessel to stop or veer away violently thereby causing collisions)

If this is what it takes to stop these protesting fools, then serve me a whale steak!!

I don't agree with whaling, but we accuse them of being unlawful and barbaric and then these fools 'attack' the vessels with 'rotton food' bombs , ram their vessels creating safety hazards and board them.. whos acting like the barbarian now?

Its clear that they intend to act in this aggressive manner because they are displaying a pirate flag!! (so maybe giving the Japanese another reason to blow them out of the water?!)

and why is the media and politicians associating with them?

lets deal with the whalers LAWFULLY and do it right.. the australian way, not start attacking people we dont agree with.

Until then look at charging the organisation and the captain of the vessel for costs as they obviously created the scenario by their actions deliberately.

[damo_s]

I agree with their cause, but disagree with the way they went about it.

They broke the law and should have been dealt with appropriately.

[blitz]

if you are going to put a poll up then with all due respects I suggest you be less subjective and less argumentative. Any vote case will be swayed by your opening comment - Idiotic Australians.

Therefore this is not a real Poll rather a poll of does anyone agree with you and as such you should have worded it that way.

therefore I will disagree. the japanese ship was in Territorial Australian waters only 40 km off of main land Australia, where the bloody hell were the Australian authorities to take the boat into custody as it was illegal being there?

being that close to Australian main land the bloody navy should have used it for target practice and sunk the bloody thing. The Austrlian governments Labour and Liberal are panseys when it comes to Japan, makes you wonder who won the war?

What do you think would happen to an australian boat in Japanese waters illegally?

[ugu80]

None of the above.

Their cause was just but if they were prepared to board another vessel on the high seas then they should have been prepared for the consequences, i.e. being taken to Japan to face Japanese justice. The world spotlight would be on that and generate more publicity than the boarding. Japanese would probably have sent them home to avoid that spotlight.

Australian taxpayers should not have to pay for their actions.

[101RRS]

therefore I will disagree. the japanese ship was in Territorial Australian waters only 40 km off of main land Australia, where the bloody hell were the Australian authorities to take the boat into custody as it was illegal being there?

being that close to Australian main land the bloody navy should have used it for target practice and sunk the bloody thing. The Austrlian governments Labour and Liberal are panseys when it comes to Japan, makes you wonder who won the war?

What do you think would happen to an australian boat in Japanese waters illegally?

Sorry mate - Territorial waters only extend to 12NM so the vessel was not in Australian waters - even if it was there is a right to "innocent" passage so would have been legal.

Your other comments - well the mods will ban me for saying what I think - simply they do not warrant a response.

Lets stay with the facts.

Garry

[Homestar]

I think at least they should charge them with the cost of their pickup by the customs ship, said to be in the several hunderd thousand dollar range.


This is just bull**** media hype. The pickup didn't cost the taxpayer one single dollar. The customs ship was already in the water, buring diesel, paying the wages. This was more like an excersize for them. It's not like they put another ship specially in the water to go and do these sort of things - we are paying for these ships anyway, why not get them to go and do something useful.

I don't particullay agree with what those 3 did, but all the hype about how much it cost to get them back gives me the ****s.

P.s. - I can see this heading straight to the Soapbox...:p

[101RRS]

There is no simple solution to this scientific whaling problem. I believe that only Japan can stop it - following pressure and discussion from/with other countries like Australia.

Australian actions is what is need to be done. We have continually lobbied the Whaling Commission to have scientific whaling banned but we have not been able to get the required support. But then if lobbying was so heavy that Japan decided to leave the Commission then there would be little the Commission to do.

The waters that this whaling takes place is within the Antarctic Treaty zone so military forces are not permitted in the zone - forget Aust Military intervention down there - also forget Japanese Navy escort of the whaling fleet (to protect it from the environmental pirates).

The whaling is is partially in waters claimed by Aust and declared a Whaling Sanctuary - however our claims are not recognised by most countries (including Japan) and our claims are not agreed to by the body that manages the Antarctic Treaty. By taking the Japanese to the world court, this is a major risk strategy for Australia as World Court will need to consider whether Aust claims are valid - may find they are and may help our "territorial" claims and stop whaling but most likely find they are not valid (not ratified by the Antarctic Treaty) and we loose our territorial claims and the area is fully opened to whaling.

I think the operations of the "Sea Shepard" group will ultimately be unsuccessful and will back fire. If they monitored, filmed and shamed Japan in the news and via graphic documentaries rather than physical attack, combined with political pressure from countries like Aust and NZ then whaling will most likely stop and we would keep out territory because most claims are tolerated as long as there is no rocking of the boat - but we have raised the issue in the World Court.

An emotive issue, not helped by emotive, ill informed comment.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Don't agree with the actions, but we should already have a Fisheries ship in our Antarctic waters anyway.

In a recent scientific survey of the seabed within our Antarctic claim, ROV's viewed hundreds of square Kms where the seabed was barren with what looked like plough lines where illegal trawlers had essentially vacuumed up the patagonian toothfish. Researchers snap signs of illegal fishing - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-20/researchers-snap-signs-of-illegal-fishing/834290)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/01/833.jpg

It seems the only thing an illegal trawler has to do down there is to turn off it's GPS transponder and fish wherever it wants knowing there is no one there to police the fishery, well actually to police the marine sanctuary.

[101RRS]

Our Fisheries vessels mainly patrol the Economic Exclusion Zones around our territories in the south, Heard and Macquarie Islands sometimes in cooperation with French vessels based in the Kerguelen Islands. There are other means of monitoring what is going on in the entire area without having vessels there.

To start patrolling our claims off Antarctic itself would be a step too far, which only we recognise and no other country officially recognises - to the rest of the world, the area is international waters hence whaling and fishing.

We need to walk on tippy toes in this area or we loose the lot as it is unlikely that our claims would be upheld. We only get away with it now as many of the other countries have similar claims - including area we claim. There is more than the sea at risk as we also claim a large part of the continent itself and we would risk it all.

Garry

[Tombie]

1 - Blatant act of Piracy... Shoot the feral little tree hugging *******... Then throw them overboard as berley.

2 - As much as *we* may not agree. Who the heck are *we* to tell a nation what it can or can not eat (and lets face it they eat what they catch).

If *we* were told not allowed to catch, kill, eat *cows* because they are sacred - would we comply?

What about dog and cat? If we were supposed to eat them, but Goats and cows are only for milk... Would we comply?

This isnt as easy as it seems... And just because many dont like it does not make it right..

The Scottish and Irish fisheries are devoid of life almost due to their over fishing - perhaps someone should have told them off...

[Blknight.aus]

my money says that what the idiots did while for a just cause was dangerous stupid and in theory an act of piracy by illegally boarding a foreign vessel.

your on that countries vessel, in open water and their laws apply, Have fun.

But IMHO we need to do a bit of research (I've said this before) I reckon we need to find out if torpedoes still sink ships, in the same way that they need to find out if whale still tastes like whale.

[blitz]

Sorry mate - Territorial waters only extend to 12NM so the vessel was not in Australian waters - even if it was there is a right to "innocent" passage so would have been legal.

Your other comments - well the mods will ban me for saying what I think - simply they do not warrant a response.

Lets stay with the facts.

Garry

200nm

[101RRS]

200nm

No - that is the Economic Exclusion Zone - Territorial Waters are 12nm.

The 200nm limit allows Australia to control economic issues such as fishing and mining. Aust cannot stop any vessel from being there. If Aust has a reasonable belief that a vessel is undertaking an economic activity then it can be stopped however if there are not reasonable grounds and the vessel detained and nothing found then Aust could be charged with piracy.

The relevant Japanese vessel is a known security vessel and while part of the whaling fleet is not in itself a fishing vessel so could not normally be boarded when it is in the Economic Exclusion Zone (also aligns with the Australian Fishing Zone - AFZ). If we had evidence that the vessel was acting in the fishing function eg fish spotting etc then maybe we could board.

Indonesian fishing vessels are routinely boarded in the north but if there is no evidence of active fishing they are released (often to be arrested later in the AFZ fishing).

Cheers

Garry

[pfillery]

But IMHO we need to do a bit of research (I've said this before) I reckon we need to find out if torpedoes still sink ships, in the same way that they need to find out if whale still tastes like whale.

And there I was thinking only loose lips could sink ships. I stand corrected. Research validated.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...To start patrolling our claims off Antarctic itself would be a step too far, which only we recognise and no other country officially recognises - to the rest of the world, the area is international waters hence whaling and fishing. ...

GarryIf you read the attached article the Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources (CCAMLR) is already an internationally agreed convention and the illegal fishing is in the closed area under the Convention in an area claimed by Australia.

If we don't police the CCAMLR area of our claim on behalf of the Convention, no one else will and it lessens our right to the extensive area of our current claims.

You speak of other methods of monitoring fishing, the area is frequently under masses of cloud and sea fog so monitoring by satellites is difficult and the use of arial monitoring is only useful if you can identify and interdict the illegal vessel in the area and that has to be done by surface vessels in the area. The illegal vessels are frequently fleet owned of a similar type and marked in identical livery, so using photographs, if you could take them is not conclusive evidence unless you can intercept the vessel as it is in or leaving the area.

We already have this problem in our northern territorial waters, the Indonesian fishing boats enter our waters at night and are in International waters by daybreak or before Navy or Fisheries boats can interdict.

[blitz]

By the way I also disgree with what they did - I simply dont agree with the way the pole was written

and Garry, unless you are also Pfillery then it wasn't aimed at you, you had not put up a post at that stage, unless you assume i have ESP and aimed it at what you were going to say. So as you said, back to you, "well the mods will ban me for saying what I think - simply they do not warrant a response"

It was and has worked as meant to be just as inflamity as the original post.

No good comes from ranting from either side of the argument,

So the question should have been:

Do you agree or disagree with the actions of the three australians boarding the Japanese ship off of the Western Australian coast?

[blitz]

No - that is the Economic Exclusion Zone - Territorial Waters are 12nm. Garry

happy to be corrected on the terminology :D

[101RRS]

If you read the attached article the Convention on the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources (CCAMLR) is already an internationally agreed convention and the illegal fishing is in the closed area under the Convention in an area claimed by Australia.

If we don't police the CCAMLR area of our claim on behalf of the Convention, no one else will and it lessens our right to the extensive area of our current claims.



You make some good points - but like most conventions it only applies to those countries that have signed up to the conventions and ratified - the whaling commission is an example of why it is important to keep Japan in it as it is bound by its rules - if it leaves, the whaling commission has no control over what Japan does - thankfully it is in Japan's interest to remain.

There is a covert process of monitoring and enforcement of CCAMLR and occasional active enforcement. Unfortunately these conventions are rules for like minded nations whose will cannot generally be forced on non members but there are exceptions.

If there is evidence of illegal fishing by a vessel it can be arrested later if it comes into your jurisdiction - there was a case a few years back where a 8000t vessel was found to be fishing in our AFZ around Heard/McDonald is but it left before the patrol vessel could get there. It was arrested a few months later when it came back into the area - it was not fishing second time around but was charged and convicted for the previous offence.

Garry

[101RRS]

and Garry, unless you are also Pfillery then it wasn't aimed at you, you had not put up a post at that stage, unless you assume i have ESP and aimed it at what you were going to say. So as you said, back to you, "well the mods will ban me for saying what I think - simply they do not warrant a response"

Do you agree or disagree with the actions of the three australians boarding the Japanese ship off of the Western Australian coast?

I have no issue with the factual issues you have raised just the more uninformed, emotive points that you mentioned as they do nothing to help the discussion.

The point, that you do not understand between territorial waters and the EEC is a common misunderstanding - often by the media - hopefully we will all be better informed by the discussion.

I think the whole thing was a stupid stunt and that they should have gone back to Japan for charging.

Garry

[roverfan]

It didn't have to cost a cent, they had their own bOats to pick them up.

From what I have read most of the meat is never gets eaten and sits in a freezer till it's disposed of so it all seems a bit pointless to me.

I like whales and whilst I dont like hippies I actually support them if they save one whale for my kids to see then I thank them.

[blitz]

I have no issue with the factual issues you have raised just the more uninformed, emotive points that you mentioned as they do nothing to help the discussion.

as I said I raised them on purpose to highlight the fact that uninformed and emotive comments dont help as I explained in the thread

The point, that you do not understand between territorial waters and the EEC is a common misunderstanding - often by the media - hopefully we will all be better informed by the discussion.

I do understand the difference just got it mucked up

I think the whole thing was a stupid stunt and that they should have gone back to Japan for charging.

On this I have no opinion as I think it is bs from both sides

Garry


Apart from that My point is as a country are we doing enough to stop japanese whaling ships going to the wouthern oceans and taking whales in water that is classified as Australian. Waters I might add which are not traditional japanese fishing waters, As one of the Politicians said live on TV they are not taking them for research it is to eat; Look at how hard we come down on indonesian fishermen in our waters,. why are we not doing the same with the japanese

[lardy]

I hope whales exist long enough to evolve and utilise tooling and start hunting the japs....as for the protesters they should adhere to the law just like everyone else,sensationalism might give you a high profile but diminishes your lawful right to protest


---
I am here: Google Maps
Sent from my iPhone using Telepathy

[blitz]

I hope whales exist long enough to evolve and utilise tooling and start hunting the japs....as for the protesters they should adhere to the law just like everyone else,sensationalism might give you a high profile but diminishes your lawful right to protest


---
I am here: Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps'll=-20.682618,117.140455)
Sent from my iPhone using Telepathy

hey lardy my brother worked up at Point samson for a couple of years on the the barges

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Mungo MacCallum has an interesting opinion piece in the ABC's "The Drum unleashed" Heroes and villains in the whaling debate - The Drum Opinion - What is to be done about Japanese whaling? (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3775420.html)

[goingbush]

If you feel strongly enough about saving the whales you can give your money to these guys
Sea Shepherd - Sticker Packs: Jolly Roger #137590 (http://shop.seashepherd.org/store/p/226-Sticker-Packs-Jolly-Roger.aspx)
rather than spending it on your LandRover

The problem is not so much that the Japs are killing and eating whales its the fact that they are lying and saying that its for RESEARCH .

I'm all for the Inuits whaling !! but can't stand the lying Japs, a couple of limpet mines will fix them up !!

[CraigE]

MMMMMM Tasty Whale with a nice side of dolphin and seaweed salad, followed by Dugong and Turtle Icecream.
:o

[Col.Coleman]

I like the fact the protester has warrants out for his arrest for unpaid fines from previous convictions over similar actions. Now detained.

Dip****.

These people are rouges, and acting as pirates and should be treated as such. Stunts and the dangerous actions of Sea Shepard are not how to go about stopping whaling. The fact they named one of their vessels after Steve Irwin I find an insult to his name, with the actions they undertake.

CC

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...These people are rouges, and acting as pirates and should be treated as such. Stunts and the dangerous actions of Sea Shepard are not how to go about stopping whaling. The fact they named one of their vessels after Steve Irwin I find an insult to his name, with the actions they undertake.

CCTalking about stunts and dangerous actions, Steve Irwin's name is one that comes to my mind immediately.

If you check Wikipedia the person Steve Irwin was planning to join a Sea Sheperd voyage but died beforehand, doing another dangerous stunt.
MY Steve Irwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Col.Coleman]

As long as it is under your own name, you can do as many stupid things as you like.

Take a look at me:p

CC

[Blknight.aus]

As long as it is under your own name, you can do as many stupid things as you like.

Take a look at me:p

CC

now thats how to set a bad example... ummm no a good example of.....

bugger it a wordsmith can work it out...

why dont we just start up a whaling industry, then we can exclude them from the 200NM EEC. have the other countries that are on side with us do the same and we can burn up a pretty good chunk of the ocean and gain the authority to detain the whaling ships legally if they cross the threshold.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

why dont we just start up a whaling industry, then we can exclude them from the 200NM EEC. have the other countries that are on side with us do the same and we can burn up a pretty good chunk of the ocean and gain the authority to detain the whaling ships legally if they cross the threshold.We probably have a few artifacts in Whaling Museums in Albany and Eden, probably a few old buggers we could use as preceptors. Remember it is still within the lives of many members of this forum where we went from whaling nation to anti-whaling nation from one IWC meeting to the next.

[Blknight.aus]

yep, I have done the whaling tour at albany many times..

as much as Im against the whaling itself (ATM and likely not likely to change in my lifetime as they are too rare a beast but if they were as common as rabbits sheep or cows ID be for it) I do love the industry gear, Its a mechanic/blacksmith thing.

[Tombie]

Mmm Whale..... Tasty :)

And we should shoot pirates :D


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

[roverfan]

I like the fact the protester has warrants out for his arrest for unpaid fines from previous convictions over similar actions. Now detained.

Dip****.

These people are rouges, and acting as pirates and should be treated as such. Stunts and the dangerous actions of Sea Shepard are not how to go about stopping whaling. The fact they named one of their vessels after Steve Irwin I find an insult to his name, with the actions they undertake.

CC

Pretty sure Steve and his family were big supporters of sea shepard, everyone saying they should go about it other ways what would you suggest as nothing else has worked, at least these hippies are making an impact.

[Tombie]

Irwin was a ****ing tosser too...

Sea shepherd is a terrorist group and should be locked up or preferably sunk!

And Japs need to fess up or stop...


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

[aew849]

As far as my recall goes on maritime law, the Jap vessels may pass through the 12NM Terriotrial Waters, the 24NM Contiguous Zone and the 200NM Economic Exclusion Zone....provided they comply with our state regulations.

So if they were 'just' enroute to southern waters and three heads lob over the rail then I am surprised the Japs handed them back, instead of taken them home to the Japanese courts, and then suing for the costs of transport, food and accom.

Perhaps the whalers just looking to get a few brownie points with the rest of the world.

I do not support whaling, so I like the fact that there are groups passionate to tackle them. But I do not support illegal practises to get a point across. At the same time I do not support India refusing the Video Referral System for the test series!

Perhaps the biggest criticism to be made is that of the current government, who have proceded to withdrawl, counter or back away from any promise made that earnt them the 'majority'.

aew849

[KarlB]

There seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread. Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea. And those who engage in acts of piracy are called pirates. Whether you condone the actions subject to discussion or not, it was not piracy and the perpetrators of the actions therefore are not pirates. From media reports, at most, they are alleged to have committed an act of trespass at sea.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[TerryO]

Perhaps the biggest criticism to be made is that of the current government, who have proceded to withdrawl, counter or back away from any promise made that earnt them the 'majority'.

aew849

The present Australian Federal Government were not given a majority by the people, they promised the independants the world to get the required numbers last time I checked.

I don't condone whaling and would like to see it stopped. But I think these nongs including those on Sea Shepard etc are very dangerous individuals and if the Government had any guts they would stop them from doing this stuff like illegally boarding other peoples vessels at sea no matter how good the cause.

All they have to do is refuse Australian port entry for any boat that rams or attacks other boats on the open sea as Sea Shepard does.

And yes I agree these three clowns should have to pay for their rescue by our customs vessel because they chose to break the law and board the Japanese boat knowing what would happen.

Even though these mugs fly the Jolly Roger maybe they aren't pirates (yet) but I will vote that they should have been left at the mercy of the Japanese Courts.

By the way who is the nong who voted that they don't like whales? ...Unless your name is Ahab what have whales ever done to you?

cheers,
Terry

[Blknight.aus]

There seems to be a bit of confusion in this thread. Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea. And those who engage in acts of piracy are called pirates. Whether you condone the actions subject to discussion or not, it was not piracy and the perpetrators of the actions therefore are not pirates. From media reports, at most, they are alleged to have committed an act of trespass at sea.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

Boarding a vessel by means of force is an act of piracy in the same way that you can be done for assault if you defend yourself and then pin down your agressor against their will. It's gunna come down to the damned lawyers. Why cant we get the japs to hunt them instead?

[KarlB]

Boarding a vessel by means of force is an act of piracy in the same way that you can be done for assault if you defend yourself and then pin down your agressor against their will. It's gunna come down to the damned lawyers. Why cant we get the japs to hunt them instead?

And what force did they use?

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Blknight.aus]

Activists Board Whaling Ship - YouTube

@ 30 seconds in when the second guy pushes the crew member away from the railing so he can maintain grip.

by the letter of the law there is the act of force.

[KarlB]

Activists Board Whaling Ship - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uqgup57nIec)

@ 30 seconds in when the second guy pushes the crew member away from the railing so he can maintain grip.

by the letter of the law there is the act of force.

Your eyes may be better than mine but I could see no crew members in the video (other than one on the deck above at 28 sec in video below). All I could see is the first protester getting aboard the Shonan Maru II very quickly and then put out is arm to assist the third protester to board the vessel. I have read no reports of accusations by the Japanese that the protesters used force or violence against any crew members to board the ship.

You may like to have a look at this more complete and marginally clearer video:

January 7, 2012 Forest Rescue Men Board Shonan Maru # 2 - YouTube

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Blknight.aus]

GOOD EYES...

I'm going to back for round 2 with someone else....

(I hadnt watched it just fast forwarded to where the alleged incident occured)

[mikehzz]

It's pretty similar to going illegally into another country....say Iraq, for a "good cause". The tree huggers and the hawks just have a different idea of what a good cause is. :) I heard only yesterday that whale meat is becoming unpopular in Japan and that they have warehouses full of it frozen. Probably don't want to be told what to do and lose face. Last time they were pushed they sunk most of the US fleet. Have you seen Japanese game shows....? Don't mess with them. :)

[kowari]

The cause is just, the action probably not, but then we all make mistakes. they would have taken into account the risks and will have been prepared for the consequences. so they were partially in the wrong.

The Japanese are totally in the wrong. End of story. The consumption of whale meat has fallen in Japan because the young japanese people follow world events and opinion on things like twitter etc and are able to see the bigger picture, so therefore dont eat whale meat.

the best thing is to not buy japanese goods if possible (yes, even Toyotas) a fall in the yen would change their way of thinking quicker than a fleet of gunboats and an army of 'eco-warriors'

Now, if only China did'nt own australia, we could use the same tactics to bring them into line re the selling of Tiger skins and parts!! Oh, and Ivory, oh and Rino horn, oh and endangered turtles, or indeed anything remotely rare and edible. *******.

[d@rk51d3]

the best thing is to not buy japanese goods if possible (yes, even Toyotas)

Preaching to the converted. :D

Then you need to boycott:

Canada, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Island of Bequia, Saint Lucia, Japan, Iceland, Norway, Faroe Islands, Greenland, Indonesia, Russia and The United States of America.

All whale harvesters.

[KarlB]

Preaching to the converted. :D

Then you need to boycott:

Canada, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Island of Bequia, Saint Lucia, Japan, Iceland, Norway, Faroe Islands, Greenland, Indonesia, Russia and The United States of America.

All whale harvesters.

Your statement is a little misleading in that Canada, Grenada, Dominica, Saint Lucia, Indonesia, Russia and the United States of America, only allow harvesting of whales by aboriginal groups. Some details of this can
be found here including discussion of the subsistence nature of the harvesting: Aboriginal whaling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Cheers
KarlB
:)

[d@rk51d3]

Your statement is a little misleading in that Canada, Grenada, Dominica, Saint Lucia, Indonesia, Russia and the United States of America, only allow harvesting of whales by aboriginal groups. Some details of this can
be found here including discussion of the subsistence nature of the harvesting: Aboriginal whaling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_whaling)



Cheers
KarlB
:)

All the same to me. Hunting whales is hunting whales.

[kowari]

Aborigional harvesting, (don't tempt me) This raises another question though it is off topic.

How is it that in australia, aborigional people are allowed to hunt Dugongs and sea turtles ? their government has decreed that they ( the dugongs and turtles)have complete protection in australian waters, with reguard the turtles this extends to an internation agreement to protect.

so how is it that they are allowed to hunt dugongs with aluminium boats with outboardmotors and rifles and/or spearguns ? shouldnt they be at least restricted to tradtional methods? (I personally dont think they should be allowed at all, we are all citizens are we not)

I have heard of a park ranger following a group of 'hunters' and turning the turtles back upright rather than letting them die on their backs in the sun! how many turtles can a couple of 'Hunters' eat?

As far as I know the Inuit have to use traditional methods on endangered species, though I might be wrong there. They use rifles on the common seals of course.

[TerryO]

Your statement is a little misleading in that Canada, Grenada, Dominica, Saint Lucia, Indonesia, Russia and the United States of America, only allow harvesting of whales by aboriginal groups. Some details of this can
be found here including discussion of the subsistence nature of the harvesting: Aboriginal whaling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_whaling)



Cheers
KarlB
:)


The Japanese are the Aboriginies of Japan. So what is the difference?

cheers,
Terry

[KarlB]

The Japanese are the Aboriginies of Japan. So what is the difference?

cheers,
Terry

Aboriginal whaliing is not carried out with fleets of very large ships including factory ships. Nor is is it carried out thousands of kilometres from their country of origin. Nor is it carried out primarily for profit or with very significant government subsidy.

In the words of the International Whaling Commmision (IWC):



Aboriginal subsistence whaling is of a different nature to commercial whaling. This is reflected in the different objectives for the two. For aboriginal subsistence whaling these are to:

ensure risks of extinction not seriously increased (highest priority);
enable harvests in perpetuity appropriate to cultural and nutritional requirements;
maintain stocks at highest net recruitment level and if below that ensure they move towards it.
In order for a country to carry out a hunt under the aboriginal group clause, the nation must provide the IWC with evidence of "the cultural and subsistence needs of their people." In particular the hunt is not intended for commercial purposes and the caught meat cannot be exported.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[lambrover]

I agree with Tombie. Who the hell are we to tell an other country what they can eat. I have heard that we are barbarians because we eat the animals on our coat of arms. Like Tombie said would you stop eating cow, pig or any other animal because another culture found it terrible and protested you stop. You need to stop thinking that the white man has all the answers and is the only correct way of life.

[justinc]

A bit OT here but I think the tinned Tuna of years gone by tasted better with the Dolphin IN IT:(


I , too, hate Pirates, and I am indifferent to Whales except I think Beached Az is a great series.


JC

[Casper]

Just something that came to mind.

When talking about what could be done instead of this cat and mouse rubbish that the activists think is a productive way of life, why don't they become Whalers them selves like Blk Knight says.

Lobby the gov to allow them a permit to whale the 200nm exclusion zone, they have the vessel's for it but just not ever catch a whale.

There is no law that says they have to be good at whaling to have a commercial interest in it.

I read the other day that these new giant container ships put as much pollutants into the air per trip as 48000 cars does anyone know how much low grade fuel oil these so called green ships use per trip.

Regardless of the damage they are doing to the atmosphere, the cost alone could keep the Australian Whaling industry going from year to year and they could use their time and their Arts History degree to good use by sending a positive attitude to what they are doing rather than just trying to bully the Japanese to do what they want.

There are so many things that can be done just by thinking outside the box a little and using the laws to their advantage and they have the people who should be doing this stuff but they are way to emotionally driven to react.

As far as I'm concerned the 3 idiots are pirates and should be treated as such, in some countries they would still be hanged so maybe not go to that extreme but maybe a long long long stay at her majesties pleasure might stop future young up and comings from doing the same sort of thing.

I think that's enough of a rant from me.

Cheers Casper.

[vnx205]

I agree with Tombie. Who the hell are we to tell an other country what they can eat.


I'm not sure that we are telling them what they can eat. They claim they are killing them for scientific research, not to eat. It also appears to be the case that the Japanese, particularly the younger ones are not eating much whale anyway and stockpiles are building up. If they want to eat whale, they can do so by starting on their stockpile of frozen whale meat.

So according to what they claim to be the reason for the whaling and according to what is actually happening, what the Japanese eat is not at issue here.

[mox]

I gather there are about 80 different species of whales. Some are endangered and need total protection. Others at times can become like rabbits in the sea and reducing their numbers can be beneficial to endangered species and fish stocks.
In Australia most media coverage on whale hunting opposes it. Those open minded to check other sides of the story can start with www.iwmc.org (http://www.iwmc.org) / Sept /Oct 2011 News. Article "Legitimate whale research threatened by criminality again."

[TerryO]

Aboriginal whaliing is not carried out with fleets of very large ships including factory ships. Nor is is it carried out thousands of kilometres from their country of origin. Nor is it carried out primarily for profit or with very significant government subsidy.

In the words of the International Whaling Commmision (IWC):



In order for a country to carry out a hunt under the aboriginal group clause, the nation must provide the IWC with evidence of "the cultural and subsistence needs of their people." In particular the hunt is not intended for commercial purposes and the caught meat cannot be exported.

Cheers
KarlB
:)


First off I'm against whale hunting ....but!

But after reading the Wikipedia article that you linked to it raises more questions then answers about what is happening around the world when it comes to whaling and how many countries are doing it and why. Many nations like Canada and Norway have just walked away from IWC and still allow whaling. Norway exports whale meat to Japan so why would the Japanese import whale meat if it wasn't being eaten?

Many of the nations where whaling takes place aren't governed or predominately peopled by the nations first people so in many of those cases the Aborigines of those nations don't have the final say or the resources of a wealthy nation like Japan to go fish where they want to. Looking at it, it would seem that Norway kills plenty of Whales, with an annual max quota of over 1000 whales per year, and some years nearly killing as many as Japan but everyone hammers Japan because they are in the IWC.

Maybe they should just leave it like the Norwegians and Canadians did. I've rearly ever heard complaints in Australia about the Norse men still whaling.

I do now agree who are we to tell another nation what they should and should not eat. I guess we don't export to many cattle to India nor pork to Isreal or the Muslim countries, yet they don't tell us we can't eat those animals.

I guess like most proud nationalistic peoples, which the Japanese are, the more you tell them they can't do something the more they dig their heals in and keep doing it.

cheers,
Terry

[THE BOOGER]

The way our media and anti whaling groups portray it the japanese are the only ones hunting whales and they are only going for humpbacks, the real story is probably completly different. And I suspect that the story about wharehouses full of whale meat is spread by the anti whaling groups if they are importing it from other whaling nations.

[lambrover]

I'm not sure that we are telling them what they can eat. They claim they are killing them for scientific research, not to eat. It also appears to be the case that the Japanese, particularly the younger ones are not eating much whale anyway and stockpiles are building up. If they want to eat whale, they can do so by starting on their stockpile of frozen whale meat.

So according to what they claim to be the reason for the whaling and according to what is actually happening, what the Japanese eat is not at issue here.

I don't care if it is taken under the proviso of scientific reasons, they say that just to shut the winging Australians up. If they have stock piles in freezers, how is that any different to what other countries do with food saving it for a rainy day. If indeed the younger Japanese are moving away from it then the industry will naturally die out.

[Casper]

The way our media and anti whaling groups portray it the japanese are the only ones hunting whales and they are only going for humpbacks, the real story is probably completly different. And I suspect that the story about wharehouses full of whale meat is spread by the anti whaling groups if they are importing it from other whaling nations.

I might be wrong but I thought it was Minki whales they mostly hunted?

Just what I heard somewhere, nothing to back me up on that.

Cheers Casper

[THE BOOGER]

I might be wrong but I thought it was Minki whales they mostly hunted?

Just what I heard somewhere, nothing to back me up on that.

Cheers Casper

Mostly minki but there a few others on their list but when was the last time you heard our media tell us that :( Minki,s are not an endangered spiecies so it doesnt sound as good

edit: depending on which site you look at the quota is 850 or 950 minki ,50 fin and 50 humpback whales

[KarlB]

Part of the Australian Government's opposition to Japanese whaling is that they operate (in part) in Australia's Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) (ie within the 200 nm limit) off the Australian Antarctic Territory. This area (again in part) was designted as the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary by the IWC. All of the Australian EEZ is declared under Australian law to be the Australian Whale Sanctuary.

Cheers
KarlB
:)