TC and Lockers?

[krispe]

Now it may be a dumb question, but then again it might not.

MY12 Puma with ABS,TC et al.
Is it worth it to fit ARB Air Lockers as well or can it even be done.
Or are there better lockers?

Mechanically minded = not.
Computers = Fine.

tia for all the help.

Kris

[Rusnut]

Dont know krispy but am very interested to find out. Do you have to keep T/C
fuse out when lockers engaged, if not will it burn brakes out or do we just stay off the beach

[Tombie]

TC activates when 1 wheel on an axle is turning at a different speed to the other..

No speed difference (locker on) = no TC activation

Rear locker on = Front TC still works


Nothing wrong with fitting lockers, but I suggest you learn to pick lines first (aka Technical Driving) it will get you a long, long way without lockers...

Add lockers after :cool:

[isuzurover]

What Tombie said.

The only thing to add, is that A good quality LSD + TC are 99% as good as lockers.

LSDs are usually cheaper than lockers. By good quality, I mean Quaife, Trutrack etc...

[goingbush]

I actually think my TD5 110 with TC only is better in the bush than my 90 was with front & rear maxi drive difflocks. It steers the path I want to take where the 90 tended to bulldoze straight ahead where it wanted to go.

Im talking about steep slippery rocky terrain. Also the 90 would wheelspin everywhere where the 110 goes further without breaking traction.

Just my opinion but I would not bother.

[spudboy]

Hi Krispe - You might want to do some searching on TrueTrak (or TruTrak) + Traction Control (or TC) on AULRO as there are a few people who have tried these and have been pretty happy with the combination of Traction Control + an LSD.

BTW - these are not the 'plate' type LSD's but a mechanical item with special worm gears to do the locking. They are smoother then lockers, but don't give 100% lockup, but they work very well with TC. Front and rear TruTraks are a common option.

HTH
David

[isuzurover]

I actually think my TD5 110 with TC only is better in the bush than my 90 was with front & rear maxi drive difflocks. It steers the path I want to take where the 90 tended to bulldoze straight ahead where it wanted to go.

Im talking about steep slippery rocky terrain. Also the 90 would wheelspin everywhere where the 110 goes further without breaking traction.

Just my opinion but I would not bother.

You are comparing apples and oranges. In general LWB vehicles climb better offroad. Also - what suspension, tyres and pressures did each vehicle have?

[Allan]

I've got a locker on my Puma 110. I had it fitted for pulling the boat up W.A. beaches. I've tried it out once and all seemed o.k with the t.c. but as yet have not used it in anger. On our 90 I have put a switch on the t.c. something I must get around to on the 110 as I found running up long sand slopes the t.c slowed progress. I think, unless you are doing a lot of cross axle extreme driving, the money is better spent elseware, ie a winch. If you are set on a locker Ashcroft lockers can be had for around $1400 I'm told

Allan

[landy]

Hi all,

I have ABS/TC on my 99 Td5. I fitted ARB lockers F&R and think they make all the difference on the tracks. Go as far as you can with CDL and TC, then choose the lockers as needed. They make the vehicle almost unstoppable. As Tombie said, no problem to run with TC. A winch is good insurance, I think its the best over all insurance but ask anyone, you use the winch more to get others out of the poo. And its a pain to rig it all up when lockers are just a flip of the switch.

Fit the lockers, you won't regret it

Nino

[Yorkshire_Jon]

As per Tombies post, but would suggest the most important part of it is the bit about learning to drive your particular vehicle before fitting lockers.

It is of utmost importance you know the vehicles capabilities, then bolster it with a locker. You will be very suprised where a stock, TC enabled Defender will go.

I've lost count of the number of idiots I've seen with the most tricked up vehicle and absolutely no clue how to drive! I'm not suggesting for one second you fit into that category and indeed for all I know you may have 60 years Offroad driving experience, but these things do happen.

As for brand of locker, checkout Ashcroft transmissions in te UK.

Jon

Sent using Forum Runner

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Also, you need to consider your recovery gear & skills.

A locker will either get you out of trouble or into a whole lot more:)

Sent using Forum Runner

[biggin]

............. TrueTrak (or TruTrak) ..............

Or TrueTrac :D;)

[Slunnie]

Now it may be a dumb question, but then again it might not.

MY12 Puma with ABS,TC et al.
Is it worth it to fit ARB Air Lockers as well or can it even be done.
Or are there better lockers?

Mechanically minded = not.
Computers = Fine.

tia for all the help.

Kris

Back to YOUR question.

No problems with fitting locker(s). It wont conflict with the ETC.

ARB are good lockers and they have good and accessible back up and support. Ashcroft also seem like good lockers although there are not that many out there.

Re the driving - it's not a prerequisite to getting a locker. If you want a locker, then just get a locker.

[Rusnut]

As per Tombies post, but would suggest the most important part of it is the bit about learning to drive your particular vehicle before fitting lockers.

It is of utmost importance you know the vehicles capabilities, then bolster it with a locker. You will be very suprised where a stock, TC enabled Defender will go.

I've lost count of the number of idiots I've seen with the most tricked up vehicle and absolutely no clue how to drive! I'm not suggesting for one second you fit into that category and indeed for all I know you may have 60 years Offroad driving experience, but these things do happen.

As for brand of locker, checkout Ashcroft transmissions in te UK.

Jon

Sent using Forum Runner

you dont do dunes does ya yourky

[Tombie]

you dont do dunes does ya yourky

But I do :p lots and lots of sand driving in dunes with not a locker to be seen and with TC working...

Explorers have traversed sand for years without lockers, balloon tyres and huge HP...

And guess what?! Nothing out there has changed!!!!!!!!


Slunnie - I want a lot of things too... Doesn't hurt to know how to do the basics first! One must walk before they run!

A driver who learns to read a track and drive it without lockers will be a very good offroader with lockers.

Better than most who just get them straight away.

[Rusnut]

did they have brakes applying themselves, stopping momentum and being an all round hinderance

[goingbush]

You are comparing apples and oranges. In general LWB vehicles climb better offroad. Also - what suspension, tyres and pressures did each vehicle have?

Both with Standard suspension.
90 had Firestone SAT Directional mud tyres 750-16, v8 auto
110 BFG AT 235/85 R16 (same size as 750-16) much less aggressive than SAT , TD5

Both tyres let down accordingly

Again the 110 with TC is better off road than my 90 was , intact its better at everything that my 90 was except for the fun factor.

in the end, as Slunnie said, if you want a locker buy a locker, it won't hurt your TC

[isuzurover]

Both with Standard suspension.
90 had Firestone SAT Directional mud tyres 750-16, v8 auto
110 BFG AT 235/85 R16 (same size as 750-16) much less aggressive than SAT , TD5

Both tyres let down accordingly

Again the 110 with TC is better off road than my 90 was , intact its better at everything that my 90 was except for the fun factor.

in the end, as Slunnie said, if you want a locker buy a locker, it won't hurt your TC




Im talking about steep slippery rocky terrain.

Ah, that explains it. SAT's are hopeless on rocks and worse on slippery rock.

That and the wheelbase difference...

TC is good, but it won't get you as far offroad as twin lockers (all else being EQUAL)

[slug_burner]

Back to YOUR question.

No problems with fitting locker(s). It wont conflict with the ETC.

ARB are good lockers and they have good and accessible back up and support. Ashcroft also seem like good lockers although there are not that many out there.

Re the driving - it's not a prerequisite to getting a locker. If you want a locker, then just get a locker.

x2

Most people either don't know the benefits of or don't have the money straight away to get lockers and get around to them later. If you want to fit them now go ahead, there is no technical reason why not. If you are certain you are going to use them then go for it. You can still learn to drive without the lockers turned on. Once you get stuck you can use the lockers to help you get out of trouble. I don't see any point in learning to drive without lockers and if you get stuck having to winch or snatch out of trouble. Some might say that it is good reinforcement but I don't think it is neccessary to go through all the pain of winch/snatch strap if you don't have to. Less risks involved with the use of lockers than using kenetic energy devices or winching.

[Tombie]

did they have brakes applying themselves, stopping momentum and being an all round hinderance

All had TC enabled yes...

And if you look at how TC works it doesn't sap momentum.

My last 4 LR have had TC and has never caused a single offroad issue and never been a hindrance. Best vehicles I've had on some of the softest powder sand had TC and all performed faultlessly.

[Tombie]

x2

Most people either don't know the benefits of or don't have the money straight away to get lockers and get around to them later. If you want to fit them now go ahead, there is no technical reason why not. If you are certain you are going to use them then go for it. You can still learn to drive without the lockers turned on. Once you get stuck you can use the lockers to help you get out of trouble. I don't see any point in learning to drive without lockers and if you get stuck having to winch or snatch out of trouble. Some might say that it is good reinforcement but I don't think it is neccessary to go through all the pain of winch/snatch strap if you don't have to. Less risks involved with the use of lockers than using kenetic energy devices or winching.

No one said winch or strap...

We said - Technical driving...

Very different :cool:

And if the locker etc won't engage you'll know how to pick lines!

And - no one said Don't Buy A Locker.

But rather find the limits stock and then upgrade!

[Blknight.aus]

go learn to drive in a rover without lockers TC or LSD of any kind, (and with leaf springs for the added man value) that will get you into picking your line and setting your tyre pressure.

your ABS and TC should only be relied upon to indicate to you that you are approaching the limit of the vehicles capability and either need to drive better or find another way.

Learning to rely on TC ABS HDC ACE and all the other acronyms is a recipe for disaster when you learn mid hill/corner that they have finite limits because when they shut down from a fault/overheat in mid corner, halfway on a massive hill you'll find that you're well outside the vehicles "natural" abilities.

roughly the ABS/TC pump is good for about 10 minutes worth of work. I have personally witnessed brake smoke coming out of the wheel centers of a puma pulling a trailer on sand trying to make it because the owner wouldn't get out and lower his tyre pressure.

as tombie pointed out once the lockers engaged TC/ABS wont spot the wheel speed difference so wont kick in. Be careful with it if you go for a torque biasing type limited slip diff, that can have interesting results when TC comes on

[Tombie]

Well said Dave..


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

[Rusnut]

are good

[krispe]

Thank you all for your feedback.

I have been 4wding for many years, just not in any vehicles with all of the new fangled electronic assistance, hence my question, as I really had no experience with this type of equipment.

I totally agree about learning what to do and have been in the SES and driving many and varied vehicles over the last 14 years.

Again thanks to all.
You explained what TC does and that is what I was after.

I will probably go for ARB, as the added benefit of having an on board compressor to re-inflate my tyres.

cheers. :p

[Blknight.aus]

depending on how you define Better...

there are better options than the ARB locker and the ARB compressor.

I'd suggest you speak to rovertracks.

[slug_burner]

No one said winch or strap...

We said - Technical driving...

Very different :cool:

And if the locker etc won't engage you'll know how to pick lines!

And - no one said Don't Buy A Locker.

But rather find the limits stock and then upgrade!

Sorry to be crowding the front bar at the pub.

Learn Technical driving... is great advice. But you will occassionally get it wrong specially when you are learning, then that is where the winching/snatching might come into play. That is what I was getting at. :cool:

[ashtrans]

Ashcroft also seem like good lockers although there are not that many out there.

more than you might think,

460 sold since March last year,

not one failure yet !!

Dave

[isuzutoo-eh]

And if there was an Ashcroft Sals locker, there'd be even more! ;)

[Rimmer]

And if there was an Ashcroft Sals locker, there'd be even more! ;)

X2!

[isuzurover]

X2!

x3!

[PAT303]

more than you might think,

460 sold since March last year,

not one failure yet !!

Dave

Dave,I was going to get your limited slip center and HD CW/P fitted in the rear of my puma,can you give me some feedback on how they are with the puma's TC. Pat

[isuzutoo-eh]

Pat, I have an Ashcroft ATB in the front of my (obviously non-tc) County. It's awesome. On road it isn't there. Off road you can feel it working, feel the tyres pulling forward when there used to be just spinning. Best bit, is they add traction and don't reduce steering!
I might put one in my series:)

[PAT303]

How much did it cost landed and how hard to fit if you don't mind me asking. Pat

[krispe]

I have looked at Ashcrofts lockers and whilst they appear to be a very good product, not having an Aussie distributor {that I can find} and not being mechanically minded I am reticent to go down that line.
At least ARB are here in Oz, and just about every 4wd shop can work on them and has spares if something goes belly up.

Kris :)

[isuzurover]

I have looked at Ashcrofts lockers and whilst they appear to be a very good product, not having an Aussie distributor {that I can find} and not being mechanically minded I am reticent to go down that line.
At least ARB are here in Oz, and just about every 4wd shop can work on them and has spares if something goes belly up.

Kris :)

The reason Ashcroft can offer them at reasonable prices is they DON'T have an Australian distributor to charge silly markups. Dave/Ian - please don't stop allowing us to buy direct!

Anyone who can install an ARB can install an Ashcroft locker.

[ashtrans]

At least ARB are here in Oz, and just about every 4wd shop can work on them and has spares if something goes belly up.

Kris :)

Hi,
I understand this theory but it is very often not the case in reality, see post 45 :

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-1/136696-chinese-lockers-5.html

we can deliver parts worldwide in 2-3 days, the spares are way cheaper than the ARB ones but it's academic anyway as we haven't sold any yet as we haven't had any failures !!!

[ashtrans]

I have looked at Ashcrofts lockers and whilst they appear to be a very good product, not having an Aussie distributor {that I can find} and not being mechanically minded I am reticent to go down that line.
At least ARB are here in Oz, and just about every 4wd shop can work on them and has spares if something goes belly up.

Kris :)

stocked here if you prefer to buy local :

Upgraded Diff Products (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/contents/en-us/d3151.html)

[ashtrans]

Dave,I was going to get your limited slip center and HD CW/P fitted in the rear of my puma,can you give me some feedback on how they are with the puma's TC. Pat

they are working well as far as I am aware, we have had no negative feedback, they will work even better with TC as it will effectivly brake the spinning wheel for you to preload the diff and transfer drive,

sorry but we don't have a HD CW/P for the 110 rear

Dave

[isuzutoo-eh]

How much did it cost landed and how hard to fit if you don't mind me asking. Pat

Pretty easy to install, drive to a diff specialist, give him the keys, come back a few hours later with cash and you've done it :p
I had it installed by someone who knows what they are doing but it doesn't look particularly hard-I just hadn't seen a diff off a vehicle before that day.

Landed was under $600 but the dollar is even better now than May last year :)

[Slunnie]

Hi,
I understand this theory but it is very often not the case in reality, see post 45 :

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-1/136696-chinese-lockers-5.html

we can deliver parts worldwide in 2-3 days, the spares are way cheaper than the ARB ones but it's academic anyway as we haven't sold any yet as we haven't had any failures !!!
I think the issue with importing into Australia at the moment isn't the sender or the speed at which they send it, it is customs. I import a lot of personal stuff related to 4WD's and Triathlon, and customs is who are killing things. 21 days is pretty much the normal from the US and from the UK at the moment, and has been for me for the last maybe 1.5 - 2 years or so fairly consistently, with one package becoming lost within customs and taking about 6-7 months or something silly. I see LRA is a distributor though and that is a way around it also if time is tight for the products.

[krispe]

I think I found one problem with purchasing from Ashcroft, and I was beginning to come around.

If I want front and rear done, thats 2x lockers at 475GBP each.
Thats 703AUD each, so 1400AUD + Postage of at least 120GBP.
Total according to site = 1585.04
Customs will also apply GST because its over $1000.

Then fitting costs on top, not sure what these are, and we are beginning to add up to a substantial cost.

So what is cheaper?

Kris

[isuzurover]

I think I found one problem with purchasing from Ashcroft, and I was beginning to come around.

If I want front and rear done, thats 2x lockers at 475GBP each.
Thats 703AUD each, so 1400AUD + Postage of at least 120GBP.
Total according to site = 1585.04
Customs will also apply GST because its over $1000.

Then fitting costs on top, not sure what these are, and we are beginning to add up to a substantial cost.

So what is cheaper?

Kris

If you get them shipped individually then no customs fees.

So - $1600 for 2 Ashcroft lockers vs what - $2-3k for ARB???

Fitting cost would be the same for ARB or Ashcroft.

Not sure what your point is???

[krispe]

If you get them shipped individually then no customs fees.

So - $1600 for 2 Ashcroft lockers vs what - $2-3k for ARB???

Fitting cost would be the same for ARB or Ashcroft.

Not sure what your point is???

What are the fitting costs? is one question.

Just trying to work this out in my mind. It still looks like Ashcrofts may be the way to go.

[krispe]

I have just ordered 1x locker so as to avoid the over $1000 GST and import duties, will go back for another one next week, once I have received the first one.

Kris:D

[Yorkie]

What are the fitting costs? is one question.

Just trying to work this out in my mind. It still looks like Ashcrofts may be the way to go.

there will be someone closer to you but i had j-mac diff and gears @ arndell park fit my detroit for $300.