The conundrum of the soldier at war.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Sebastian Junger has written an interesting opinion piece for the Washington Post (re-published in the SMH today All war has desecration (http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/all-war-has-desecration-20120116-1q35m.html) )

The focus for the article is the recent desecration of dead Taliban fighters by US Marines and the shouts of outrage and condemnation that followed. An act seemingly hypocritical when the former President said its O.K. to waterboard a live Taliban and now others are saying its not O.K. to urinate on dead ones.

Worth a read if that sort of thing is of interest.

[roverfan]

You cant turn men into killing machines and brainwash them into thinking they are serving some greater good, convince them that people fighting them are terrorists when they are only trying to fight the occupiers of their country and expect them to act with decensy and morals it aint gonna happen.

[THE BOOGER]

So you can blow them up bury them alive but dont get videoed urinating on a dead body (anybodies) cos the media look for a good/bad story anywhere.
How things are portrayed by the spin doctors both ours and their,s has a big impact. The media didnt mention why nato was bombing the mouths of caves or didnt dwell on the use of cluster bombs effectivly a high tec IED by the US airforce and very possibly our own airforce, it didnt suite them at the time.
Remember "war is hell" alwasy has been and always will be dieing is much worse then being peed on:(

But maybe the moral is kill your enemy if you have to but show them some respect too, it may make for a better peace after the fighting is over its called forward planning:)

[Tank]

What about the way them bastards treated dead American soldeirs, hacking them to pieces and dragging them through the streets, if it was me I would **** in the dead Taliban mouths, regards Frank

[Tombie]

And slap the idiot who filmed and posted it online. What a dickhead.


"Where the Desert meets the Sea"
'Did I mention some great 4WDriving is just 5 minutes from home?'

[lambrover]

it is very bad behaviour, but it is also hypocritical of them to get upset as mentioned they show zero respect for us. War is govened by rules and they don't follow them, were we have to and it costs lives to be bound by these rules.

I want to know how these images and videos get out, the person leaking them should get urinated on I think then shot. It is very destructive having this leaked out. The less the public know the better I reckon. Army is payed to do a job, so don't ask questions because you won't like the answers.

[digger]

MAYBE THIS IS CLOSER TO THE TRUTH THAN WE SUSPECTED?
(MINOR REPLACEMENTS MADE TO FIT ****)


"You want answers?”

“I think I’m entitled.”

“You want answers?”

“I want the truth!”

“You can’t handle the truth!”

“Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, *****? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for *** this dead taliban, and you curse the *** soldiers. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That *****The talibans death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don’t want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

I dont condone or agree with them doing it, but I also have difficulty in seriously blaming them either after numerous IED deaths and attacks from a virtually unseen enemy maybe the revenge on bodies of the enemy is better than on living prisoners...?

As said anyone who films such actions is a fool, a dangerous fool as their footage will be that viewed around the arab world and remembered, unlike the handover of a military built and equipped school or hospital which will virtually be not remembered.


<<<obvious error pointed out and repaired!! :) >>>

[roverfan]

Nice post digger but they aren't Arabs.

[jakeslouw]

Nobody has a right to comment unless they have been in combat.

And when I mean combat, I DON'T mean the American version of a clinical strike from 5km.

I mean when there is dust and noises and screams and confusion.

What you do AFTERWARDS should not be shared with the public.

Some REMF that however gets his jollies from peeing on a dead enemy should be disciplined.

My not so humble or inexperienced opinion. Earned the T-shirt.

Jakes the GOF Veteran.

[digger]

Nice post digger but they aren't Arabs.

I do realise that but it was easier:p

sorry! repaired now- I did know that but honestly I wasn't thinking. :(

[Ralph1Malph]

it is very bad behaviour, but it is also hypocritical of them to get upset as mentioned they show zero respect for us. War is govened by rules and they don't follow them, were we have to and it costs lives to be bound by these rules. The truth never better said. I am a soldier, I have been there (the not so pointy end, and never myself been in serious harms way) but gunslingers seem to be playing with one arm behind our backs sometimes.

I want to know how these images and videos get out, the person leaking them should get urinated on I think then shot. It is very destructive having this leaked out. The less the public know the better I reckon. Army is payed to do a job, so don't ask questions because you won't like the answers. Well said. It's a nasty business being done by kids and men (women as well these days) willing to do nasty things to each other. Best left in house and when the opportunity presents, buy an old digger a beer! (gratuitous self plug).

Interestingly, some academics (the ones that are not pacifists) like to espouse that throughout history, conflict was rarely ever resolved by integration, rehabilitation or conversion of the vanquished. More so, genocide, annihilation, slavery or subjugation were the methods used - in essence conquering them. History is littered by these methods which were largely successful (don't debate the ethics or morals just accept history).
History also accounts for the lessor number and variation of tribes, cities, cultures and races as they inevitably died out due to low population centre of gravity or more often then not were conquered and wiped out.

History is a powerful window to the future but many are not looking out!
Read this: This chap postulates about the future in a similar grain. Interesting read I think.
Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Ralph

[Sprint]

Much as I find the behaviour abhorrent, the response by the media is equally disgusting, its sensationalistic trash at its ugliest, the person who recorded it then posted it online needs to be shot, and Mr Junger given a medal for his honesty.

Personally I'd be burying the bastards with a slice of ham in thier mouths

[DeanoH]

......................I mean when there is dust and noises and screams and confusion.

What you do AFTERWARDS should not be shared with the public.

Some REMF that however gets his jollies from peeing on a dead enemy should be disciplined.


Couldn't agree more. And as for the idiot that filmed and posted the act......................(not the sharpest tack in the box).

However,.........




Nobody has a right to comment unless they have been in combat.

.

I would disagree here. To comment is appropriate. To condemn maybe not.

My concern here is not about ****ing on the enemy dead, as someone pointed out earlier..........better to **** on the dead than take it out on the living.
My concern is that this event shows the 'elite' US marines as an unprofessional and undisciplined military force. I would understand this 'desecration' from irregulars but not from a professional military force.
As a civilian heavily armed unprofessional and undisciplined troops scare me.

Deano:)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
As a civilian heavily armed unprofessional and undisciplined troops scare me.

Deano:)As a civilian, US Marines scare me! Particularly ones with guns that can actually shoot straight! :o

But that is more a comment on the mass hysteria about firearms in the Australian nanny state.

[austastar]

Hi,
any undisciplined person (especially if armed) is a loose cannon.

cheers