Does EAS really hard fault that often?

[glenhendry]

Every time I read someone's web pages or comments about the dreaded 'EAS hard faults, with a long trip on the bump stops', I am filled with fear of my next occurrence. The problem is that I have never had one! Indeed, tributes are so rare that the system has been described as 'dumb'. The stories give you the impression that if you do anything to the EAS and the EAS computer notices, it will go into a hard fault mode and not be able to be reset by anyone other than the dealer. I get this kind of impression, 'whatever you do, dont turn the ignition on with any EAS component out of kilter else you will go into hard fault mode'.

I have had several 'issues' with my EAS system and every single time, when the issue was put right (wether it be a air spring off, or a valve block removed, or a compressor problem, or a bellow pop off, etc) the EAS system realised that everything was OK and went 'out' of hard fault mode.

Perhaps it is only early P38 EAS ECUs that are so prone to the "take me to the dealer" condition and the later 99+? versions do more self analysis and reset? I have never noticed any difference between hard fault and soft fault, and it has never needed the dealer or an EAS kicker. I am not scared of the EAS height switch flashing lights, it always seems to work itself out... Anyone care to educate me on hard vs soft faults?

[Hoges]

Every time I read someone's web pages or comments about the dreaded 'EAS hard faults, with a long trip on the bump stops', I am filled with fear of my next occurrence. The problem is that I have never had one! Indeed, tributes are so rare that the system has been described as 'dumb'. The stories give you the impression that if you do anything to the EAS and the EAS computer notices, it will go into a hard fault mode and not be able to be reset by anyone other than the dealer. I get this kind of impression, 'whatever you do, dont turn the ignition on with any EAS component out of kilter else you will go into hard fault mode'.

I have had several 'issues' with my EAS system and every single time, when the issue was put right (wether it be a air spring off, or a valve block removed, or a compressor problem, or a bellow pop off, etc) the EAS system realised that everything was OK and went 'out' of hard fault mode.

Perhaps it is only early P38 EAS ECUs that are so prone to the "take me to the dealer" condition and the later 99+? versions do more self analysis and reset? I have never noticed any difference between hard fault and soft fault, and it has never needed the dealer or an EAS kicker. I am not scared of the EAS height switch flashing lights, it always seems to work itself out... Anyone care to educate me on hard vs soft faults?

The only time mine went totally U/S was when the EAS drive box attached to the valve block went beserk. Even then, it was partly controllable with the EAS Unlock s/w (running on an iPAQ4150 PDA) continuously connected and doing a reset at each set of red traffic lights... I kid you not...
With the driver changed I haven't heard "beep":wasntme: since!

[p38arover]

It's happened to me once after a compressor had worn enough that it would no longer inflate the system quickly enough. I ended up driving back to Sydney from Coffs Harbour on the bump-stops in the middle of the night.

Yes, you can drive at 110km/h on the bump-stops of the road is smooth enough. Other times, you are reduced to 20km/h or less.

[PeterAllen]

I agree with Ron, there is not much of a problem if you are travelling along a well made road otherwise its pretty painfull. As mentioned in another thread I travelled from Macksville to the Sunshine Cst in hard fault mode last week and also from Macksville to Raymond Terrace coming home. I must say though that Qld roads are generally better than NSW. I am still in the process of sorting out all the issues with my EAS so I am regularly getting an EAS fault recorded. The computer with Eas unlock is a regular passenger:)

[parasnoop67]

Every p38a on or off the road should have a manual air recovery system fitted. You should also carry an electric tyre pump. Then if you have a problem which isn't easily fixable, turn off the taps, pull the plug on the pump and pump the system back up to 60 or 70 lbs. Then if you need you can pull out the valveblock for repair but still drive your car.

[Sydr]

Every p38a on or off the road should have a manual air recovery system fitted. You should also carry an electric tyre pump. Then if you have a problem which isn't easily fixable, turn off the taps, pull the plug on the pump and pump the system back up to 60 or 70 lbs. Then if you need you can pull out the valveblock for repair but still drive your car.

That's good advice, thank you, which manual system is the one that you recommend, and why?

Is there an electric compressor that can be recommended?
thanks
Syd

[glenhendry]

Most people are missing the point. Maybe I wrote it badly. The title says "does it happen often". I have MARS. I wasn't asking for advice about fixing EAS, there are many posts with those answers. The question is, when I have had serious EAS issues, the system always un-faults itself once the issue is dealt with. I have never used a kicker or a dealer to reset. It doesn't correlate with the written wisdom.

[parasnoop67]

Does it happen often.

Yes it certainly can and sometimes does.
I went through a longish period with a faulty fr sensor.
This may have been caused by fr sensor going out of range after hitting a deepish hole.
All would be fine for an hour or so on the highway, and suddenly beep-beep
The sensor in question had a dead spot and if it sat on that spot on a smooth road for a shortish time it would fault out.
Since replacing the sensor about 9 months ago, it hasn't faulted once and it gets serious off road use fairly often.
When I first bought it, the first time it really flexed it faulted with all lights on, and pumped up hard. Took a toilet break and when I restarted it, it was ok.
I found that uncleared faults tend to come back and there are many variations to their names.
I purchased a cable from paul at Hardrange and used Storey Wilson's eas unlock program to adjust the computer to get it sitting nice and even and a little more height. This also gives a list of all stored faults.

Sorry re. mars system, thought you didn't have one as you said I am filled with fear etc.

Cheers John

[parasnoop67]

Dot

[parasnoop67]

gon

[Keithy P38]

It must happen often to some and never to others! I have never in nearly 4 years and 2 p38's had an eas fault! That includes a fully submerged p38 with water up to the dash!

I believe if you keep an eye on it and maintain as it should be there's less chance of a problem!

Cheers
Keithy

[33chinacars]

If I didn't drive mine for a few days / weeks would nearly always get a fault that had to be reset. Would drive about 10kms then get fault ( valve stuck open / shut) reset. Drive another 10kms ( compressor not working) reset. Usually fine for the rest of the day. When away & driven every day usually no faults. Behaved as it should. 95% sure problem was in the valve block but didn't get a round to fixing before I sold car.

Gary

[benji]

I know LR changed the software from the Classics to the P38 to make it more 'durable' - what ever that means. But from what i've read, it seems that softfaults (ones where the lights go on, and it freezes itself at standard ride height) will reset themselves after you cycle the ignition. Not sure about hard faults (where your on the bumpstops).

From experience the ecu's are faily picky with height sensors, if the ecu gets a dodgy signal, it will hunt that sensor up and down to look for a plausable one. And yes, turn on the ignition with one unplugged, and it will know straight away, even with the door open and the ignition off.

However, and air leak needs to be pretty big before you get a fault. Normally you'll hear an air leak (out of a bag anyway) before the lights start their little dance.

Though I have to say, the people who hark on repeatedly about the system being unreliable haven't invested the time to get to know it and fix it. I haven't put a spanner to my classic eas in almost 4 years, and the new p38 since I bought it 6 months ago. It's operated completely underwater (on the classic) numerous times, and in searing desert heat in the sand no problems.

[Grumbles]

My 1994 Classic LSE has experienced some EAS problems but all were the result of use coupled with age. Two of the air bags were origonals until last year and the other two were replaced about 3 years ago. The compressor lasted for 17 years and was rebuilt last year. Two sensors also died but I don't know what happened to cause this.

There is no way that you could term the EAS system on my LSE as being unreliable in fact quite the opposite would apply. I would suggest that it is a very reliable and durable system.

[Barabus]

Guy's I need Some help,

I have an EAS fault problem. Firstly all the lights on the EAS dash lit up and I couldnt manually change it. This continued for a couple of days then I lost the suspension. Called into a garage and the hooked it up to their computer erased the faults and 5the suspension rose again. All was well for 2 weeks then the same fault ocoured again.
Can someone give me an idea on what I need to be looking at as a fix.

Regards,

Bara

[whisky_mac]

I have had mine for several years now. The only time I had a hard fault was caused by me in my learning stage. I had the camper in the caravan park at White Cliffs and unhitched the P38 to go site seeing. Got up next morning, backed the rangie up and had to use a shovel to dig a hole for the jockey wheel to roll into so I could hook up as the hitch on the camper was too high.

Connected up and of we went. Sometime later the EAS told me I had a fault and to slow down or everybody in Australia would die. Well, the message was a bit like that. It was riding up at standard height but I think it though the front and rear were different as I had obviously put the camper on before she came up to full pressure in the bags.

At Menindee the auto elec guy could do nothing so we camped for the night and of course she was on the bump stops by morning. Drove it to Broken Hill on the bump stops and nobody had the software to get into the system so send it home on the back of a truck with the camper behind the truck and me in a car all done to RACV Total Care. Love it. Took Ivan Clarke 5 minutes to hook up his system to release the code and all was back to normal.

Have since brought a unlock buddy or whatever it is called, the other system that you run from your computer and the system that you can pump up yourself all from Paul at Hardrange. Never had an issue since, but if I do I have the gear to get out of it now.

Jim

[p38eh]

Guy's I need Some help,

I have an EAS fault problem. Firstly all the lights on the EAS dash lit up and I couldnt manually change it. This continued for a couple of days then I lost the suspension. Called into a garage and the hooked it up to their computer erased the faults and 5the suspension rose again. All was well for 2 weeks then the same fault ocoured again.
Can someone give me an idea on what I need to be looking at as a fix.

Regards,

Bara
Hi Barabus, My second hand 1998 4.0 gave me much grief in the first year similar to the problems you describe. Main cause was a leaking airbag/s so I replaced the lot once I had diagnosed the problem. A secondary problem was that because the compressor was running for an abnormally long period and getting hot it sometimes shut down. Had to clear faults then wait until the compressor had cooled down enough to continue the trip. I bought the small fault clearing device and later on purchased the Faultmate Extreme. Both extremely useful. Must admit driving a P38 on the bumpstops when one has a bad back is the absolute pits. However it does tell you what a great job the suspension performs when in working order. Since replacing the bags (Arnott Gen 11) have not had problem and that was about three years ago.. Best of luck. Kind regards, David.

[Keithy P38]

Maybe we should do up a "a few tips and learning techniques with eas" thread!

From my experience, if your car is slow to rise and you need to get going, leave the drivers door ajar while the engine warms up or while making your way down the street, then try and lift her up! Patience is a big thing on an empty air tank!

Cheers
Keithy

[MICHELINXMS244]

Never leave home without an EAS reset machine.

If there's a consistent problem, you'll soon be the proud owner of a new/reconditioned compressor. Whether you wanna be or not.

The EAS system is as malevolent as skynet and is probably self-aware.

Most of the time it works & it's very, very good.

But it's always waiting and watching for the best, most murphiest moment to go on strike and lift the profits of LR dealers.

It's the gift to LR that keeps on givin'...

Expect to be laughed at by small children if driving along the Hume at 110km/h on the bump stops. They will never have seen such a low, low, low, jiggly ride...

Follow the first step and you should avoid this ignominy.

Replace worn bags early and often. And the compressor inlet filter. Don't forget this bit neither.

That is all.

[PeterAllen]

Keithy P38 Tips and Tricks idea as a seperate all in one place thread for the EAS is a great idea.
We have had a P38 for two years and I still am not sure how the EAS is suppose to operate in faultless mode. Is there a way of testing the driver unit for faults??rather than guessing and testing with a known working unit. Same for the ECU. The fault codes that are read on EAS Unlock etc are not really indicative of the problem at hand as many of the faults I understand can be caused by a number of issues not just the fault indicated. Like the message on the dash for a "Gearbox fault" really means the battery is low.:confused:
I think I will have to invest in the manual bypass air valve system at least then I can isolate the airbags and airlines to each wheel from problems associated with the valve block.
Hard to test for air leaks if you cant pump up the bag in the first place.

[33chinacars]

Sorry Peter but to the best of my knowledge you cant test eas driver unit. I got a new replacement from the UK.

Gary

[Keithy P38]

You don't need to find an air source if you run an "in series" compressor setup like mine! Two factory compressors doing the work of one, means I've got one spare if another packs up!

Cheers
Keithy

[DT-P38]

Great idea!!! Always did wonder why the mod's here hadn't created any sticky posts for the top p38 issues... All the knowledge is here, it's just a bitch to retrieve easily sometimes and a pain in the arse retyping it for new forumites all the time.

Maybe a "newbies thread" with common prob's and suggested solutions. Or even just a search guide with exact prob topics to search?

Hey Ron, is that something for mod's to work up or do we have to vote on what needs to become a sticky in our section? How's this supposed to work?

[PeterAllen]

Try this for interest. I have recently rebuild (with O rings ) the valve block. corrected faults with Eas unlock. Car takes a long time to pump up . at least 15 min. Had another hard fault yesterday, system wouldn't reach standard profile and went into fault mode. cleared with unlock and fault was Rear Right Valve stuck open. stripped that solenoid down and changed stem o ring and checked everything else. Put back in and system is pumping again but failing to reach desired height in a descent time frame. When I get out of the car and lock it the car will immediately lose all height and down to access mode. I thought previously that it is suppose to. Made sense that the car lowers itself so I can get back in but most others indicate that the car should not lose height (even overnight let alone in 10 seconds after locking) What is the correct working system suppose to do? When does the car go into access height? Any thoughts??

[33chinacars]

From memory it will go into access height when selected. As it does for off road height. Car will lower from standard height to road height after reaching 80kph for a 30 seconds . Should go back up to standard height after being at 55 kph for 30 seconds, altho it can be locked at road height ?? Hope this helps Also can be lock at other heights. High can be selected under 55kph then reverts to standard.

All info & instructions are in your owners manual or on RAVE

Gary

[PeterAllen]

Thanks for that 33 chinacars, drove to work this morning and system pumped up to standard height after a while ( maybe 5 min).
stopped and parked and locked car ( no movement). Checked three hours later and both rear were down but front remained at standard height. Opened car and retrieved something and closed and locked car again. Again the front both sides dropped down. Locking the vehicle obviously is triggering a response. Is my ECU or Driver Unit causing this?

[33chinacars]

Car will auto self level. So if one corner is a little down car will keep trying to level itself all the way down to the bump stops. Mine did this nearly all the time over night. Two ways to stop self levelling. One is to leave door/bonnet/ tail gate open. Two is to remove fuse/ relay under passenger seat.
Park it in your shed with a door open and you can then see which air bag is at fault. It maybe that you have leaking air bag or air line. How new are your air bags . May not show up until up to a certain height. I also had my valve block apart a few times even with new "o" rings. ie crimped "o" rings.

With mine would drive about 10 km's before fault. Valve perminatly open / closed or something simular. Reset with EAS Kicker . Drive another 10km's, another fault. Compressor not working ( Probably over heated) Reset again . Then usually no more problems for the day. As we are 35kms from town was not really any drama. R.R only driven once a week or so. If used every day when on holidays I had no problems:)

Gary

[Hoges]

Peter, when you refurbed the valve block, did you happen to notice by chance the state of the epoxy sealant on the underside of the Driver unit? It takes a lot of heat and deteriorates over time and assumes the appearance of badly heat shocked chocolate... :eek:

Assuming the o-rings, solenoids, diaphragm and non-return valves are all functioning corrrectly then the symptoms certainly sound very much like the Driver unit especially if it has never previously been replaced ...

I first began to suspect it on mine when the vehicle would suddenly raise itself to extended off road height at traffic lights ...SWMBO would not believe I was not "showing off" :wasntme::angel:

No matter what calibration I wrote to the EAS ECU, the system seemed to have a mind of its own... Other times it would behave irrationally ...to the extent that I had an iPAQ 4150 PDA loaded with the PDA version of EASUnlock app permanently plugged into the OBD II port ready to clear faults until such time as I could get another Drive box.

don't fall for a second hand one..get a new one from the UK. Well worth it. http://www.britishparts.co.uk/.sc/ms/dd/Range%20Rover%20P38A--Electrical/2696/AIR%20SUSPENSION%20DRIVE%20BOX

EDIT: as you've prob worked out, the Drive box translates commands from the EAS ECU and manages the multitude of open/shut/for how long commands controlling the solenoids. The point is, the EAS ECU initiates say even a tiny adjustment to maintain the self levelling while parked, a faulty Drive box can get the whole thing scrambled, manifesting the odd behaviour you've noticed...

[PeterAllen]

Thanks hoges
That driver unit sure is a mystical piece of electrical stuff
I did previously note that the substance on the back was dry like an old block of chocolate but have never seen a new one to compare with
I believe the driver unit was manufactured by Dunlop but I am sure they subcontracted out to Lucas
I will play around a bit more this weekend to see what other symptoms I can find to narrow down the problem areas
As an aside I noticed some small water drops on one of the solenoids between the valve block and the solenoid shaft mounting block. Could this come from the drier?

[PeterAllen]

Ok pumped up to standard height and pulled relay from under seat
Within half an hour road to centre wheel arch height changed front r 820 to 830 cm, front left 810 to 790 cm , rear right 830 to 750cm and rear left 820 to 710 cm so I suppose that confirm airbag leak unless air can still escape from the valve block.
Also put car into hard fault when I pulled the relay and assume this is normal.
Seems the more I test the more problems I discover
Any advise on new bags?

[33chinacars]

If you need to replace airbags have a look here
LAND ROVER Air Suspension Parts - Range Rover 1995-2002 (4.0L, 4.6L, and 2.5L) P38A (http://www.arnottindustries.com/part_LAND_ROVER_Air_Suspension_Parts_yid4_pid22.ht ml)
Depends if you want std Gen11 or improved Gen111. If doing any offroading I would go for Gen111. Good luck.

Gary

[PeterAllen]

Thanks Gary
I am leaning towards replacing with the original dunlop airbags as I have heard good and bad with the gen iii and I do not want to go to the extra expense of them plus longer shocks to get a couple of cm
I am checking shipping price from island 4x4 in the uk
Can get full set of bags, compressor And new drive unitfor about 850.

Has anyone purchased from them or recommend an alternative

[PaulP38a]

I've bought a few bits and bobs from Island 4x4 in the past and never had a problem. Andy at p38spares.co.uk has been good to deal with also, but I have heard from a couple of people lately that he has been hard to get hold of.

The sinking of 3 out of 4 corners, and raising of the other (might be due to the others dropping) could be due to 3 leaking air springs, but could also be due to the solenoids and non-return valves not sealing after the valve block rebuild.

Cheers, Paul.

[PeterAllen]

Thanks Paul, that's the dilemma with the leaking as u cannot easily isolate the bag from the valve block unless you have the manual inflation modification.
Speaking of which I understand that hard range sell such a beast?
Perhaps u can confirm this for me as I would prefer to narrow the issue down further and finally discount the valve block as part of the problem

[zuk]

Quik question guys all my air bags hold air no probs but my tank leaks out over night so my compresor has to fully pump tank up every time I drive dose great job 150kpi do you think I should bother to fix this, it takes about 3 hours to drop all the air so just normal driving here and there not to much problem.
Ps I beleve the leak is in read block

[PaulP38a]

Hi Peter, yep can do an EAS Emergency Bypass Kit for you. Includes tee pieces for inline fitting, and also elbows for full bypass of the valve block. Give me a call, pm or email. I can ship for you overnight.

Zuk, check the fitting at the bypass kit that goes to the tank. Either the Schroeder valve or the quick connect fitting under it. Like all air fittings, they can develop a slow leak. Plumbers tape, goo or sometimes just a nip up should fix. Also check the fitting at the tank. I have seen these leak before.

Cheers, Paul.

[zuk]

Thanks Paul have dun the soapy water test on all the fittings on valve block with your kit you sent me and I can't find any leaks all the push fitting seem ok but I will check tank I am probely just being lazy I will keep checking till I fined it.