Onboard Compressor - suspension backup and for tyres, etc

[HarryO]

G’Day All

As shown on the picture I am going to add an onboard Compressor (behind left headlight) and a new Air reservoir to my D3 but want to bounce some things off the wise men on the forum.

The new reservoir is a genuine Landrover D3 suspension reservoir but just modified so the brackets fit in the same position but on the left passengers side. That gives me 9 litres of certified reservoir with a good snug place to mount it. I will connect this to an onboard Compressor which hopefully can also give me 150PSI (same as existing system)

All sound simple so far but I was thinking of connecting the two systems together via a one way valve that will allow air from the Added reservoir to pass through to the suspension system but not back the other way. Basically if the pressure in the added system is higher than the existing suspension system it will allow air through to the suspension.

The reason I want to do this is so that I have a backup compressor already connected with nothing to do in the bush if the original one packs up. Which I believe does happen.

I have a few questions though:

My main concern is can the added ARB (or other) onboard compressor handle filling a 9lt reservoir?
Can anyone see a flaw in the theory? I do not want faults, alarms, etc
Which compressor would you recommend (max 150 PSI)? Reading the forums most people seem to recommend the ARB brand

[Blknight.aus]

that'll work but your tools are going to be limited to dusters and inflators. The ARB compressors can reach 150PSI (most of them these days can) But they do not like starting against more than about 30 PSI so I would consider fitting an electrically triggered check/unloader valve on the AUX compressor with decent thickness hose to give the compressor a second to get up to speed before the pressure comes on against it.

[jz-is-fishing]

I have also fitted a compressor behind the left headlight (had to make a bracket or shelf to mount it there). The compressor is an ARB CMK12 or whatever the model number is; basically the one they still offer with the blue aluminum mount/band on it. Duty cycle on the ARB compressor should be fine for what you are asking, so are some of the other better compressors.

The only issue with this compressor is it has a shut off switch which typically stops at around + or - 5 PSI at 95PSI. The air suspension operates in the front at about 116-145 PSI and the rear at 75-116 PSI.

BTW I have not noticed the difficulties at running the compressor with tires already inflated over 30PSI; but I usually turn on the compressor first then attach to the tires.

Viair make compressor with higher pressures such as 120 PSI 150 PSI and even one for 200 PSI, which mounts to their own air tank and is weather etc proofish - cannot remember the spec, exactly as to the weather proofing.

Search around I think I read a forum thread, perhaps here or on the UK site where others had fitted a second air tank on the opposite side of the rig and connected the two. Not sure exactly if there wer any issues but my guess is that it is doable. Might just be wise to have two seperate and independant setups for redundecy case.

Another option is to just have a spare compressor, perhaps even portable. Which I may use and or do. You wont likely have to mess about in the bush much if you use an EAS setup like Green Oval Experience is putting out since all you will need to do is take the airhose and connect it to the inflator valve for the air spring or springs that are low. BTW need to pull the fuse in the engine compartment so that the system does not self lower if it wants to. i believe its fuse 26E.

I have installed my own air inflation kit on my rig, after a bad bump stops event. Basically some T-Pieces in brass, some airline and a few mounting points. A PIA job, but done none the less and each spriong can be inflated independantly. Mind you with the ARB compressor this amounts to something similar to the normal drive height of stock variety (not normal height with rods installed).

the next solution, which I do not have experience with but have been told about by a LR tech is that the D4 aircompressor can be placed in the D3, with only minor mods. Apparantly a straight bolt on but the hose routing is slightly different, I think it has to do with shortening an air hose. But it did not sound dificult. Also have heard that these compressors are much stronger and a bit bigger also and do not go out like they do on the D3.

Anyway that's what i can help with. Good luck with it.

Cheers

[MAGSY]

g;day all;, have read about ' endless air' in the 4wd magazines. they are supposed to run max 200 psi( with motor running). they are a converted air conditioner pump, run off the engine belts.......great idea but space in engine bay restricted. have a look into it anyway, you might find it will suit you. cheers.:)

[400HPONGAS]

MAgsy , you obviously have never seen inside the TDV6 engine bay !!!!You wont be fitting any more drives on that setup !
I wonder what these people who think they can fit a tank do with the fuel tank thats allready there ? The tank would be that small its useless !!

[HarryO]

Based on “Blknight.aus” input (thanks) I have changed the design slightly in that I will put another one way valve and a 3/2 way valve on the output of the compressor. Wiring the 3/2 way valve in parallel with the compressor will mean that the line will vent to atmosphere every time the compressor stops – so no head of air to start against next time it starts. When it restarts the 3/2 way valve closes and the line begins to pressurise – once the line pressure is above the reservoir pressure the one way valve will open and charge the system.

A little more complex than I had hoped but I enjoy these little projects – keeps me sane. Rev 1 of the design attached..

[HarryO]

Just read this thread :o:

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic65683.html?highlight=%2Bair+%2Bspring+%2Brebu ild (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic65683.html?highlight=%2Bair+%2Bspring+%2Brebu ild)

One thing I have not thought of is the water removal silica balls that the landy compressor has - does the ARB unit have the same feature? Read their website but can not find any mention of it.

I may need to go to Rev 2 on the design?? This is getting complicated

[jz-is-fishing]

I do like the idea and been toying with the thought of doing it also. Keep in mind if there is another type of failure, say electrical or a valve block or etc it could allow the D3 vent air from the air springs, even with this system. You may still wish to consider some kind of EAS kit. I know this system is great for a portion od redundancy and Tools and the like. Just a thought.

keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.

[bbyer]

I may need to go to Rev 2 on the design?? This is getting complicated Actually by the time you get it all working, you will have sympathy for the Land Rover guys who did the system up first time.

Consider that you have a family to feed and the assignment is to design an air suspension system that has never been tried before and you know it is going be to mass produced a few thousand times before effective field testing is done. You may as well update your resume.

Yes, the air dryer thing matters, at least where the temperature goes below freezing. Where it does not, well you hope the air tank has a non rust coating inside and the other parts are all plastic or rubber.

What you are doing will work fine but along with the check valve, I would have a full on off valve between the two tanks and keep it shut most of the time. Use the ARB air source for tyres etc but you will at least have a good and simple alternate when your LR air compressor quits - which it will. When that happens, I would get the truck up to desired height and then not change height unless I really had to and get the LR compressor back in service as soon as practical. The less moisture in the system, the better.

The D3 tank on the right side is the elegant and safe way to carry extra air. My complements.

No one but LR has an air dryer as a part of their standard air compressor design - well yes on Mercedes etc but not the portables. The problem is how to dry the dryer. LR solves that by exhausting the compressed dry air back thru the desiccant. For the portables, there is no exhaust air - it is in a tyre. Ultimately for all its problems, you will come to the conclusion the LR design is pretty good.

My view is the only real mistake they made was running the air storage system at +200 psig. If they had put the second tank in, kept storage pressures and hence the compressor working pressure to about 150 psig, we would have had a near perfect system. No one yet, (well not Hitachi anyway), can make a cheap single stage oil free compressor that will run for any length of time in any climate at +200 psig.

[HarryO]

The D3 tank on the right side is the elegant and safe way to carry extra air. My complements.

Was not my idea - found it on a this website

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - LR Airtank fitted for compressor install . (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic32433.html?highlight=%2Bcompressor+%2B+airlin ) e

Worth a look he has got all the photo's, etc and yes I agree it is a very good solution.

[discowhite]

Was not my idea - found it on a this website

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - LR Airtank fitted for compressor install . (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic32433.html?highlight=%2Bcompressor+%2B+airlin ) e

Worth a look he has got all the photo's, etc and yes I agree it is a very good solution.

wish i had of seen that when i did mine.. could have used his bracket idea.

cheers phil

[HarryO]

wish i had of seen that when i did mine.. could have used his bracket idea.

cheers phil

Phil - what onboard compressor are you running ?

[discowhite]

one of the new ARB ones.

cheers phil

[Blknight.aus]

where you have the 3/2 valve.

you can get those with a check vavle incorportated into them

Fitting an air drier is surprisingly simple and you can buy them with a pressure controlled unloader valve that will vent tank air out from the tank through the dessicant to atmosphere via the 3/2 valve and then when tank pressure drops to a certain point will stop the airflow.

[HarryO]

Fitting an air drier is surprisingly simple and you can buy them with a pressure controlled unloader valve that will vent tank air out from the tank through the dessicant to atmosphere via the 3/2 valve and then when tank pressure drops to a certain point will stop the airflow.

If I understand you correctly the attached Rev 3 is what you’re suggesting. This way I get dry air in both systems – depending on what the Dessicant costs it could be worth it. Not much chance of freezing conditions in Western Australia though.

I have also included the manual valve that was recommended further down the thread.

On problem I have is that from what I see the Landy System runs at about 210PSI and to try find an onboard compressor that can truly deliver at this PSI is not easy. They state max 150PSI but when you drill into the detail they will only do about 100 – 120 PSI :(. The VIAIR Units are the same – state 200PSI but only really deliver about 150.

I suppose this is more than enough for my tyres, toys, tools, etc but while I am at it I may as well try getting a system to handle both. I may need to fit a regulator on the tyres, toys, tools outlet otherwise the kids bicycle tyres will get bloody big bloody fast :eek:.

[connock]

If I understand you correctly the attached Rev 3 is what you’re suggesting. This way I get dry air in both systems – depending on what the Dessicant costs it could be worth it. Not much chance of freezing conditions in Western Australia though.

I have also included the manual valve that was recommended further down the thread.

On problem I have is that from what I see the Landy System runs at about 210PSI and to try find an onboard compressor that can truly deliver at this PSI is not easy. They state max 150PSI but when you drill into the detail they will only do about 100 – 120 PSI :(. The VIAIR Units are the same – state 200PSI but only really deliver about 150.

I suppose this is more than enough for my tyres, toys, tools, etc but while I am at it I may as well try getting a system to handle both. I may need to fit a regulator on the tyres, toys, tools outlet otherwise the kids bicycle tyres will get bloody big bloody fast :eek:.


Hi HarryO
Is there any reason you cant fit a LR compresor if you are finding it hard to find a onboard compresor for this amount of psi?

connock

[HarryO]

Hi Connock

From what I have read on the forums I do not think that the Landy Compressor can deliver the volume (litres per minute) to pump tyres, toys, etc. So I would have an initial burst of air which would then slow down to whatever the compressor can deliver. If it could deliver sufficient volume that would be the ideal solution because I would then have a 100% redundancy factor for the suspension. If I am wrong one of the guru’s please let me know.

As you most probably noticed this has grown over time and a lot of people would rather just carry a portable and fit the direct pump to each wheels airbag kit and be done with it. For me this is fun and I love adding these little “projects” to the Landy – it keeps me sane.

Cheers
Harry

[Nomad9]

Hi 400HPongas,
After your demo I'm treated myself to an early b'day present, LLams goes in over the weekend, the other disco is now back on the road as of tomorrow, engine done and running, time to start on the D3.......... Thanks for the insight.

Yours Marty

[Blknight.aus]

If I understand you correctly the attached Rev 3 is what you’re suggesting. This way I get dry air in both systems – depending on what the Dessicant costs it could be worth it. Not much chance of freezing conditions in Western Australia though.

I have also included the manual valve that was recommended further down the thread.

On problem I have is that from what I see the Landy System runs at about 210PSI and to try find an onboard compressor that can truly deliver at this PSI is not easy. They state max 150PSI but when you drill into the detail they will only do about 100 – 120 PSI :(. The VIAIR Units are the same – state 200PSI but only really deliver about 150.

I suppose this is more than enough for my tyres, toys, tools, etc but while I am at it I may as well try getting a system to handle both. I may need to fit a regulator on the tyres, toys, tools outlet otherwise the kids bicycle tyres will get bloody big bloody fast :eek:.

the dessicant comes in cartridges and cost about 20-300 bucks per cartridge. Look at truck shops for the filter heads and dessicant cartridges.

The only thing left that Id change is the position of the check valve and the tap. after a while and a few uses tap valves can develop leaks.

should work nicely and heres a kicker, you dont need to get to the full 210psi to get the suspension to work in an emergancy, 85psi is plenty but you have to have a manual switching setup to operate the suspension (I have a breakout box that I plug in in place of the ECU that gives me push button control of the valving.

Ive abuse tested a handfull of different pumps and surprisingly they will make more than 120PSI, I think 175 is the highest Ive seen without bypassing the thermal cutout system and running them on more than a good solid 13.5V It wouldnt do that pressure often but IMHO they'd do it often enough to keep you out of trouble.

[Robocop]

I don't know if it applies or even possible but I once saw a bloke in a 70 series back in my Suzuki 4wd Club days that used a converted a/c pump to inflate tires. The only issue he had was lubrication & it worked more than well. Mounting would probably be an issue.

[Blknight.aus]

no room in a modern vehicle... Should've added.

if you get one of the dessicant filter heads that have a dedicated purge back line they also have an open to atmosphere port on them, when the pressure is not coming from the pump the cartridge is open to atmosphere, if you were to put it near an exhaust manifold/turbo that would nicely dehydrate the dessicant for you extending the life of the cartridge, HOWEVER, those type of filter head come somewhere north of "thats a bit bloody pricey" cost wise.