I think I want a II/IIA. Don't I?

[Ozdunc]

G'day folks,

This is my first post so go gentle:).

I'm thinking of having a mid life crisis, and rather than go for a sports car and/or wild women, I was thinking of getting a 1968 IIA SWB.
Only reason for the date was I thought it would be nice to have a car the same age as me (but thats not written in stone).

I learnt to drive in a IIa SWB and a ser3 LWB when I was about 11/12, which is probably why I've got this idea in my head. I've driven petrol 90s and 110s, and a turboD 90 when working as a road engineer in the early 90s in the UK, and owned a 200TDi Defender for a few years before I moved to Aus. So I've got a fair idea of the pleasures and pitfalls of Land Rover ownership.
I've currently got a 1994 80 series 1FZ-FE Landcruiser which I'm very fond of and do all the maintenance/ repairs/ mods on that, but there's a little voice in my head thats bringing me back to LR.

I have a romantic notion of driving around in a IIa SWB with the roof off in the sunshine, but am I letting myself in for standing around in the pouring rain with the bonnet up?

So my question is really - what should I expect from owning a series 2/2a?
If I get a petrol am I constantly going to be trying to keep it in tune (never worked with carbys/points), are the drum brakes going to need constant adjustment (like my old Mini), is the Prince of Darkness going to commandeer my headlights every time I flick the hazard lights on (like on the Defender)?
And most importantly, will I be able to let my wife drive it without expecting a irate phone call saying it won't start. I want her to say 'Let's take the Landy' rather than "Are you working on that ****** car again!!!'.

I enjoy swinging the spanners, but not every time I pop down to the shops...

Having said that, I understand its a 40+ year old vehicle and stuff wears out and I may need to do an initial body off rebuild/ chassis/ bulkhead repairs depending on the vehicle I find, and thats part of the appeal, but do you need to be an obsessive tinkerer to keep them running once they've been restored, or is scheduled maintenance every X kms enough?

I'm not talking concourse here, just to original workhorse spec.

Any insights/ comments gratefully received.
Cheers
Duncan

[banjo]

G'day folks,

This is my first post so go gentle:).

I'm thinking of having a mid life crisis, and rather than go for a sports car and/or wild women, I was thinking of getting a 1968 IIA SWB.
Only reason for the date was I thought it would be nice to have a car the same age as me (but thats not written in stone).

I learnt to drive in a IIa SWB and a ser3 LWB when I was about 11/12, which is probably why I've got this idea in my head. I've driven petrol 90s and 110s, and a turboD 90 when working as a road engineer in the early 90s in the UK, and owned a 200TDi Defender for a few years before I moved to Aus. So I've got a fair idea of the pleasures and pitfalls of Land Rover ownership.
I've currently got a 1994 80 series 1FZ-FE Landcruiser which I'm very fond of and do all the maintenance/ repairs/ mods on that, but there's a little voice in my head thats bringing me back to LR.

I have a romantic notion of driving around in a IIa SWB with the roof off in the sunshine, but am I letting myself in for standing around in the pouring rain with the bonnet up?

So my question is really - what should I expect from owning a series 2/2a?
If I get a petrol am I constantly going to be trying to keep it in tune (never worked with carbys/points), are the drum brakes going to need constant adjustment (like my old Mini), is the Prince of Darkness going to commandeer my headlights every time I flick the hazard lights on (like on the Defender)?
And most importantly, will I be able to let my wife drive it without expecting a irate phone call saying it won't start. I want her to say 'Let's take the Landy' rather than "Are you working on that ****** car again!!!'.

I enjoy swinging the spanners, but not every time I pop down to the shops...

Having said that, I understand its a 40+ year old vehicle and stuff wears out and I may need to do an initial body off rebuild/ chassis/ bulkhead repairs depending on the vehicle I find, and thats part of the appeal, but do you need to be an obsessive tinkerer to keep them running once they've been restored, or is scheduled maintenance every X kms enough?

I'm not talking concourse here, just to original workhorse spec.

Any insights/ comments gratefully received.
Cheers
Duncan

Wash your mouth out with a dirty finger go on..

Im a bit biased I recon any series is the best..No more work then any other car if well maintaind..

[jakeslouw]

Why specifically a 2A? For the looks?

Or do you really enjoy the weak gearbox and 3 main bearing engine?

If the former, I reckon a 2A 88" body on a D90 chassis could be a beautiful hybrid.

[The ho har's]

There is no reason you can not own a reliable series vehicle:(:D, if fit is well maintained:)

My daily driver is a series 3 and it gets me to work every day, except when the windscreen broke:(

Mrs hh:angel:

[Blknight.aus]

my daily drivers a series as well and it gets me to work with a broken windshield and whether it wants to or not

[isuzurover]

Duncan, out of my IIA, 110, and Discovery, the car that is the most fun to drive is my 1968 IIA ute. I drove it from Brisbane-Perth and it didn't let me down.

I would consider a 109 instead of an 88 though, the ride is a lot better with the longer wheelbase.




Why specifically a 2A? For the looks?

Or do you really enjoy the weak gearbox and 3 main bearing engine?

If the former, I reckon a 2A 88" body on a D90 chassis could be a beautiful hybrid.

:D The IIA box with a late model (radiused) layshaft is stronger than the S3 box.

The 5MB engine is almost nonexistent in AU, as by the time they arrived almost everyone was buying Stage 1s.

[d@rk51d3]

:D The IIA box with a late model (radiused) layshaft is stronger than the S3 box.

The 5MB engine is almost nonexistent in AU, as by the time they arrived almost everyone was buying Stage 1s.

And the 3 bearing engine, while not as smooth as the later 5 bearing, won't let you rev the ringer out of it.

[VK3UTE]

Just do it! Don't think too much about your decision, thats what a mid life crisis is all about:D
You might find you enjoy the tinkering as much as driving a series landy :burnrubber:

Cheers Simon

[JDNSW]

There is no reason why a Series 2a cannot be reliable - you just have to realise that it is at least forty years old, and has probably not been maintained properly, so cherck everything and make sure it is in good shape.

Points/carburetter do not need adjusting every time you drive anywhere, just checking and replacing as necessary every service, same with plugs and plug leads. Do it and you will have no on-road problems.

Brakes need adjusting every service, but it only takes a few minutes.

John

[Slunnie]

I'd like to see pictures of the wild women before giving advice.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Duncan

Welcome aboard to the forum.

I would put the feelers out for a late 2A that someone has cherished and has been forced to sell. Those type of people don't like parting with what was once their pride and joy, to just anyone. They would prefer that the vehicle would be continued to be looked after by it's new owner.
.

[Ozdunc]

Thanks folks,

Much appreciated.
I'd like a II/IIA as I think it really is the 'Land Rover'. An S1 would be cool but I think I might be biting off a bit more than I can chew looking after one of those, and SIII's don't do it for me as much - I grew up with British Leyland cars and still have the mental scars.

And as for the SWB over the LWB - I really like the choppy ride! Plus it'll fit it the garage easier.

I'm happy to take my time buying one as I'm hoping it will outlast me with enough TLC.
If anyone knows of any for sale to a good home feel free to send me a PM:D

What sort of things should I be looking for? I'm presuming rust in door tops and bulk heads still happens in Oz ( but probably not as much as the UK).
What about cooling, or pistons blow by, brakes, wheel bearings? Is there anything thats a common II/IIA thing to look for?

Thanks once again - your replies have given me the confidence to start looking properly (and the boss has given me the OK if I can prove it will fit in the garage and she can still get her bikes out OK.)

Cheers
Duncan

[Col.Coleman]

There is no reason you can not own a reliable series vehicle:(:D, if fit is well maintained:)

My daily driver is a series 3 and it gets me to work every day, except when the windscreen broke:(

Mrs hh:angel:

What about when it caught on fire?:wasntme:

Series Rock.

CC

[Killer]

I drive my S III to eork daily, 60 km rond trip, I find it to be very reliable. As others have noted regular maintenance is the key. Go for a late S IIa SWB, they're great.

Cheers, Mick.

[Blknight.aus]

pfft maintenance... I just top up the oil, check the fuel and its good to go...

starts first turn of the key every time.

[Ratel10mm]

Only 'cos it wouldn't dare otherwise mate! :D

[Col.Coleman]

pfft maintenance... I just top up the oil, check the fuel and its good to go...

starts first turn of the key every time.

Conveniently forgot about SWMBO having to tow Fozzy up and down the street with Big Red so you could make it to work some mornings:p

CC

[Blknight.aus]

nope, replaced that starter with a tdi 300 one when that old one finally spat the bed just prior to the cape trip starting.

Of course the fact that I have 1400CCA of battery to turn it with about 180AH of capacity up my sleeve means I can really hold that first turn.

[harryj]

Sports car ? Check Got one
Wild woman ? Check (ouch!) Got one
S2A Land Rover ? Check Got one :)

Would the brake be happy to 'dance the pedals' with the non-synchro gearbox though ??
If not, go for a very late 2A, the last of these had the synchro.

The petrol 2.3L is a strong and smooth engine when it's well tuned and maintained.
SWB is easier to manoeuvre, lighter (good power for weight), and more fun.
Ours gets 12litres per 100km too.
Look for a straight country vehicle then rust is less of an issue
(bulkhead and chassis rear cross-member).

[Johnno1969]

There is no reason you can not own a reliable series vehicle:(:D, if fit is well maintained:)

My daily driver is a series 3 and it gets me to work every day, except when the windscreen broke:(

Mrs hh:angel:

Yep, absolutely. A Series IIA in good condition and well maintained (which doesn't mean having to constantly work on it) is reliable and fun. In twenty years I have never had a "I wonder if I'll make it" feeling. I just get in and go to where I'm going.

Now I have said that, of course, I may just have cursed my car.....

[Ozdunc]

Would the brake be happy to 'dance the pedals' with the non-synchro gearbox though ??
If not, go for a very late 2A, the last of these had the synchro.


Luckily the missus is a very good driver and hates autos. I don't think she'll have any problems with a crash box once she's used to it.

[Blknight.aus]

Would the brake be happy to 'dance the pedals' with the non-synchro gearbox though ??



you mean the pedal in the middle and on the left have a use other than when starting off or stationary?

[wally]

Yep, absolutely. A Series IIA in good condition and well maintained (which doesn't mean having to constantly work on it) is reliable and fun. In twenty years I have never had a "I wonder if I'll make it" feeling. I just get in and go to where I'm going.

Now I have said that, of course, I may just have cursed my car.....

Cursed it? You've turned it into a million separate pieces. You haven't got in and gone anywhere in over a year.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Duncan

Welcome aboard to the forum.
The 2A has circled the earth, crossed it and with it's predecessors' the series one was the first motor vehicle, a majority of the worlds population, first laid their eyes on.



Why specifically a 2A? For the looks?
Or do you really enjoy the weak gearbox and 3 main bearing engine?
If the former, I reckon a 2A 88" body on a D90 chassis could be a beautiful hybrid.

A standard SWB on it's original 6.00x16 tyres can, with a little preventative maintenance, turn the mileage counter over that many times that it's actual distance travelled is lost in time.
.

[wally.aussie]

gday duncan;

go for it .!! i had a series 2 (59) given to me, but just about had to rebuild it, everything was loose and falling off. once i went through it all i have driven it everywhere as it was my daily driver and still is after 5 years. i just alternate between the defeer and the shorty. big difference in confort, but, sure do get lots of looks driveing topless around town and going to the beach fishing. would'nt get rid of it for quids. off the road at the moment to re-fresh the complete front end and a couple of other mods. just do it and you won't regret it. sorry so long winded, cheers and happy landying.

[Ozdunc]

Thanks for the welcome fellas,

Since posting this I've been looking around and as there's not a heap of 2a about I had a look at early S3s as well.
S3s don't do it for me - too much plastic I think!
And the S2 central dash brings back quite a few memories of learning to drive as a kid, pulling the toggle to starve the engine of fuel to stop.
So the hunt will continue.

Ideally I'm looking for a runner, but I've seen a few where they've been sitting for a few years but say 'was running when last used'.
Is it as simple as connecting a new battery, or do the piston rings tend to seize in the bores after a period of time?
And if I go for an earlier S2 are there issues with having positive earth wiring. I'm presuming you'd be stuck with having a generator rather than upgrading to an alternator?

[shorty943]

Hi ozdunc, welcome to the world of Landy's.

Point 1) "was running when last used" usually means that was the second last time they tried to start it, the last time it wouldn't start.:(

Point 2) Sticking rings can sometimes be loosened by adding a little diesel down the spark plug holes and gently hand turning the engine. (This has the added benefit of producing lots of lovely polution from the exhaust pipe if she does start)

Point 3) Changing electrical system polarity is easy, disconnect the battery and use jumper leads to "repolarise" the generator by touching the terminals on the generator "wrong way round" for a couple of seconds, that will force the generator to "motor" and repolarise the magnets inside it. Then reconnect the battery as negative earth. I've done this sucsessfully on many an old British vehicle myself. Or, better still, simply buy a new alternator and fit it. (Luckily, the "smoke" fitted inside the wiring system doesn't care which way it travels around the vehicle)

As for S3's, they have the best of the upgrades from the earlier models, (sorry, unashamed S3 fan myself) it's not a big job to fit a custom ali or even steel dash etc if you really want to.

[isuzurover]

A standard SWB on it's original 6.00x16 tyres can, with a little preventative maintenance, turn the mileage counter over that many times that it's actual distance travelled is lost in time.
.

And if you upgrade to 7.50x16s it will last a lot longer as the engine won't rev as high ;)

[wrinklearthur]

Point 3) Changing electrical system polarity is easy, disconnect the battery and use jumper leads to "repolarise" the generator by touching the terminals on the generator "wrong way round" for a couple of seconds, that will force the generator to "motor" and repolarise the magnets inside it. Then reconnect the battery as negative earth.
Yes to above, but don't forget to swap the wires around on the gauge terminals.
.

[LWB123]

G'day folks,

This is my first post so go gentle:).

I'm thinking of having a mid life crisis, and rather than go for a sports car and/or wild women, I was thinking of getting a 1968 IIA SWB.


Hello from Brisbane.

I wouldn't spend too much time rationalising about it. Rather I would just do it. 68 SWB is a great choice if you can find one.

Oddly enough I found myself in a similar position to you last year and gave my wife about 30 minutes notice that I was buying a Series 3 SWB sight unseen on eBay. As it turns out I survived and, despite the odd issue that an inspection might have resolved, it's working out well so far.

There's a lot of truth in the statement that "foregiveness is easier to secure than permission".

Cheers,

[Johnno1969]

Cursed it? You've turned it into a million separate pieces. You haven't got in and gone anywhere in over a year.

I don't know why you're complaining. You've got some of the biggest bits.

[The ho har's]

Cursed it? You've turned it into a million separate pieces. You haven't got in and gone anywhere in over a year.


I don't know why you're complaining. You've got some of the biggest bits.


Now now boys...get it back together and drive the bloody thing:):D

Mrs hh:angel:

[RobHay]

Series IIA's are the vehicle to have.....:D Love the gearbox.....reckon it has to be the best they made.....my opinion anyway.

Now the purists on here are going to cut up me cutout and use it to fire up the barbie but here goes....Shut your eyes Uncle Ho.......there is absolutely nothing wrong in using rivnuts to hold things together on a Landy (I think if you troll through the manuel you will find that they did use rivnuts in a couple of places) and there is nothing wrong in fitting electronic ignition either. You can get the "drop in" modules now that fit straight into the dizzy. And as Blacknight says you can up-grade the alternator to something serious. Maintainence is the key to Happy Landy Ownership. In this case it is better to fix it before it breaks.

[wally]

Now now boys...get it back together and drive the bloody thing:):D

Mrs hh:angel:

Thanks Mrs hh, that's excellent advice. I'll pass that on to him when I see him next.

I don't mean to hijack the thread though. Yes, any Land Rover is a good idea as long as you don't think too hard about it.

[Johnno1969]

I couldn't find the "sarcastic" button for that "thanks". We should get one installed.

[Johnno1969]

Now now boys...get it back together and drive the bloody thing:):D

Mrs hh:angel:

Thanks Mrs HH.

We're getting there. Big day today. It's on my refit thread.

Cheers,

John

P.S. Yeah, sorry - not hijacking the thread. Yes, Ozdunc - get a Landy. Any Landy, any time. You'll never regret it. Then again, it could ruin your life. Up to you, really...

P.P.S. Wally - I hope that's the last we see of your undignified and petulant behaviour.

[ade30946x6]

Idealists usually pursue series 2 or 2A after considerable internet research and mostly end up spending a fortune on them, as they are usually either expensive or if not and sometimes if so, they are rusted out and worn out. Remember 40 plus years of abuse in many cases. Consider that many internet posters spend more time on their computers than actually driving their Land Rovers. Please do not knock the series three. They are just as good and probably a better regular use machine. You can even fit the earlier grille if you like facelifts. The salisbury rear is a real step forward on LWB models. It is also worth noting that some longer term drivers of SWB have blamed the SWB jarring effect for damaging their backs. For those of us that use our land rovers regularly and seriously, the series 3 is a great machine and I have many S2, 2A and 3. Series threes are real workhorses and great value.

Regarding the S2 and 2A dash layout, the only other vehicle that I own with instruments in the centre of the vehicle is a tractor, because it is a single seater. This layout truly reflects the agricultural aspect of a land rover and is pathetically hopeless in the current day with speed cameras and 40km limits. My advice, get a sound series 3, unless you want to put lots of money into your LR. It may well be money and time wasted, money and time that you will never get back, given the prices many poorly informed image conscious punters are paying for machines requiring full rebuilds. After all it is a series Land Rover and not a Type 35 GP Bugatti.

[akelly]

Regarding the S2 and 2A dash layout, the only other vehicle that I own with instruments in the centre of the vehicle is a tractor, because it is a single seater. This layout truly reflects the agricultural aspect of a land rover and is pathetically hopeless in the current day with speed cameras and 40km limits. My advice, get a sound series 3, unless you want to put lots of money into your LR. It may well be money and time wasted, money and time that you will never get back, given the prices many poorly informed image conscious punters are paying for machines requiring full rebuilds. After all it is a series Land Rover and not a Type 35 GP Bugatti.

Perhaps, but my S3 dash was cracked to pieces and falling apart. My SIIA dash is as strong as the rest of the car. Speed cameras aren't really an issue for me, I travel at or below the speed limit - I can tell when I'm going too fast because my ears are bleeding from the noise.

Go the IIA, you get all the 'landroveriness' with none of the plastic rubbish of a S3. A sound IIA is just as good as a sound III, in fact better because the gearbox and t-case are stronger.

Adam

[Johnno1969]

Perhaps, but my S3 dash was cracked to pieces and falling apart. My SIIA dash is as strong as the rest of the car. Speed cameras aren't really an issue for me, I travel at or below the speed limit - I can tell when I'm going too fast because my ears are bleeding from the noise.

Go the IIA, you get all the 'landroveriness' with none of the plastic rubbish of a S3. A sound IIA is just as good as a sound III, in fact better because the gearbox and t-case are stronger.

Adam

Yeah, got to agree. I don't really understand why a Series III has necessarily to be regarded as so much better and "roadable" when there's still so much similarity between the two vehicles mechanically. Don't get me wrong - I like Series IIIs, but my IIA is fine (yes, Wally - I know it's not actually running at present...) and feels no more agricultural than any Series III I've ever driven. Doesn't worry me where the speedo is - it doesn't get much of a workoput wherever it is.

At the end of the day, a good individual example of either model is fine. I don't think anybody should be put off by the older vintage: a good IIA is just as reliable (probably moreso) than a III....

Go the IIA, I say. All those safari movies can't be wrong.

[chazza]

I
Regarding the S2 and 2A dash layout, the only other vehicle that I own with instruments in the centre of the vehicle is a tractor, because it is a single seater. This layout truly reflects the agricultural aspect of a land rover and is pathetically hopeless in the current day with speed cameras and 40km limits.

I would suggest that it reflects the design commonality of so many English cars prior to about 1953, when placing the instruments in the centre of the dash was more usual than unusual - think of Morris Minor; Six and Wolseley; Austin; Jaguar; Rover cars; Model T Ford; etc. way back to the early years of motoring.

When the S1 was designed, most cars had the instruments there - I doubt "an agricultural aspect" was in the design-brief,

Cheers Charlie

[LWB123]

Been watching this rolling debate as it has evolved and might offer some fatherly advice.... Feel free to ignore it, my own kids do.

Finding the old Land Rover of your dreams is a bit like teenage love for a lot of people. Starts out with some ideal, and out of the blue something eventually turns up which may or may not have some sort of resemblance to the original ideal. By that stage it usually becomes a case of "who cares".

You may initially want a 1968 2A SWB for all of the reasons in your original post, and who is to know what you finally end up with. In reality it could well be a S2A, or a S3 or a 1950 S1 80" - one day something will pop up and you may well make a choice to go for it. In my case I started looking for a S2, nearly bought a S1 80" and ended up with a S3 88" which I am more than happy with. Can't say that I really notice the "sea of plastic" that is meant to debase the appeal of S3s, but I sure appreciate the lack of rust and dings in this particular truck which had a greater bearing on the final decision than maybe the position of the headlights.

If you read a lot of the UK magazines etc it would be easy to get quite fussy on a particular model because there appears to be heaps of S1s, S2s etc on offer. Here across the great water the simple facts are that the pool of genuine restorables on offer at any time is pretty small, especially SWB models that have not been butchered or belted from pillar to post around a farm with limited maintenance. So, despite searching near and far it would be unusual if not extremely lucky to stumble across the exact model that you might have in mind - especially in the sort of conditon that you might be hoping for given that the last S2s rolled off the line here in Australia about 40 years ago. On the other hand you may see something else in the mean time that starts ringing the right bells.

I believe that once you have made the commitment to proceed, the rest usually falls into place.

Cheers,

[RobHay]

I would suggest that it reflects the design commonality of so many English cars prior to about 1953, when placing the instruments in the centre of the dash was more usual than unusual - think of Morris Minor; Six and Wolseley; Austin; Jaguar; Rover cars; Model T Ford; etc. way back to the early years of motoring.

When the S1 was designed, most cars had the instruments there - I doubt "an agricultural aspect" was in the design-brief,

Cheers Charlie
....Actually......there was another reason for that......it was so ya missus could see what speed you were doing and give ya an earfull.:(