L322 EAS change lockout with trailer

[flyboy]

Hi guys,

I've just been searching for some info on changing the EAS mode when it locks out when connected to a trailer.

I have a 2004 Td6 L322 and am planning on doing some trips with an offroad camper trailer and was wandering if the suspension settings can somehow be altered to allow offroad height whilst towing a trailer? I guess the obvious way around it is to unplug the trailer when crossing a river, etc, but that will disconnect my electric brakes for if I want the car in offroad height down a steep hill, etc

So I wanted to know if anyone has a workaround with this?

Also, i was about to order a Faultmate FCR as a simple code reader and resetter but thought if there are customisations required in the computer for the suspension settings, I may need a more advanced system if there's one out there that can work around the suspension system customisations?

Thanks guys for any assistance!

[flyboy]

Oops! Soorry I guys, I didnt realise this was my first post on this forum! I should have introduced myself!

I live in Sydney and am on my third landrover (previous was a classic and then a TD5 Defender) This is my favourite so far. The main issue im finding is setting it up for outback trips with the lack of aftermarket parts available. I've had the car for 4 years now stock standard and am planning to tour from Cairns across to the Kimberley's in June for 3 months sop am looking at adding a few extras. We'll be sticking to fairly well travelled roads as my wife and I also have an 18 month old and by then a 6 month old!

Thanks again guys for any assistance.

[33chinacars]

Hi Flyboy.
Firstly Welcome to the forum you will find it extremely helpful as I have . Would probable never have bought a R.R. if it had not have been for this forum. Other forum to check out are: fullfatrr.com & rangerovers.net
You have a couple of simple choices that I know of.
1. Johnson Rods. Will give you a permanent lift at all highs. ( I think) LR3 Lift Kit - Johnson Rods - Range Rover Sport Lift Kit (http://johnsonrods.com/)
2. EASControl or IIDTool from GAP Diagnostic. This will allow you to reset individual heights as required.
Home - GAP Diagnostic (http://www.gap-diagnostic.com/)
Faultmate may also do this but I dont know.
Pretty sure trailer height is always at standard but I'm sure others may be albe to correct me on this

Gary

[flyboy]

Thanks Gary,

I just checked out Gap diagnostics......sounds like it has potential. Also, after all the searches ive done on fault readers, I had never come across the IIDtool which sounds very good. I've emailed Gap diagnostic with questions regarding the trailer locking the suspension and will post the response here when I get it.

Marcus

[Homestar]

You should get an answer fairly quickly - Steve from GAP Diagnostics is very good at getting back to you about features, etc.

I emailed Rovercraft the other other day for a price on one, and off the top of my head, I think they were about $540 or something like that - I will be getting one soon I think.

Oh - and welcome to the forum!:)

[33chinacars]

Hi Gav & Marcus I paid $373 for my IIDTool direct from GAP Diagnostic as a beta tester. May want to ask them direct ( or on fullfatrr.com - View topic - IIDTool from Gap Diagnostics (http://www.fullfatrr.com/forum/topic7073.html) or here New products from GAP Diagnostic – beta testers needed - Page 2 (http://www.rangerovers.net/forum/12-diagnostic-equipment/34774-new-products-gap-diagnostic-beta-testers-needed-2.html) ) if they need any more Beta testers. Patrick told me they didn't have many TD6 owners. So worth a try

Gary

[Homestar]

Thanks Gary - I certainly will try that:)

Cheers - Gav

[33chinacars]

Hi Guys

Any luck with GAP Diagnostic

Gary

[Homestar]

Hi Gary, I sent them an email this weekend, so should hear something back early in the week with a bit of luck. Fingers crossed:)

[33chinacars]

:thumbsup:

[harlie]

Other than the Rods mentioned by Garry, Gap Diagnostics’ 2 products are the only other solution - FaultMate doesn't do this - about the only thing it can't...

As we are aware, when the Trailer ECU detects a trailer it alerts the EAS ECU, which then disables all / any height changes maintaining Standard Height. What IIDTool and EAS Control enable is allowing the owner to change the ECU settings for what it accepts as “Standard Height” (it loads new sensor values to the ECU), essentially giving you the ability to give the car a lift to its Standard/Normal height. A couple of different “Sets” of settings can be stored and loaded within a minute meaning you don’t need to drive around town with your 3 inch lift. There’s a bit more to it but you get the drift…The only thing I personally don’t like about the IIDTool (and new EASControl) is that they plug in to the OBD2, the original version was hardwired, ready to go all the time via cruise buttons on the steering wheel – without having to plug the dongle in...

Like Garry I received one of the first IIDTools for testing, now on my 3rd IIDTool – it’s very good.

[flyboy]

Guys Steve from Gap Diagnostics did get straight back to me....I'm the slack one! Been a bit busy since we're expecting our 2nd child any day now!
Steve advised me that the IIDTool doesn't have the function to change the Trailer height lock, but I can change the standard height as Harlie said so that the height will be locked, but at a higher than normal "standard" setting. I gather this could be anywhere in the vicinity of 20 to 40mm depending on individual vehicle height sensor calibrations.
Because the IIDTool has this function, as well as fault code reading and clearing, it's the obvious choice for me since I also needed a fault resetter. I've contacted Rovacraft and waiting for them to get back to me so I can order one....

[harlie]

You can set it pretty much anywhere, once you set it the original zero (standard) point is gone, make sure you “Save original settings” first. Go up 70-80 and she will drive like crap (I’ve tried +50 and it feels like a yacht on the freeway) but hey, you can look like the Nissan boys too! If you give lift to a steel sprung car the new springs are stiffer which will help with body roll – air won’t stiffen up, its spring rate is maintained.


Just remember when you change the standard height all other heights change too - they use "Standard" as a zero point, so if you change standard to a higher number the EAS ECU safety zone (+90) will now be compromised. Try and explain – the ECU goes into a freeze state if height is detected at +90 to prevent damage (over extension) to the airsprings. Once the Standard height is changed to a + value, that safety point also moves to a limit beyond what the designers specified, and it (safety point) cannot be changed. The IID won’t allow you to set the programmable values (highway / standard / offroad) beyond reasonable limits (and that’s debatable) but it is very possible to set “Standard” to a + value and pop and bag because that built-in safety point is now higher by the value that Standard was changed. Remember when safety point is reached the EAS stops adjusting, it doesn’t reduce pressure, so it is likely the height of individual wheels will continue to increase as other tyres come over obstacles and this theoretical upper limit of +90 will extend to and beyond the length of what a bag / strut will hold onto (the real upper limit)….. The logic is if this point is reached the car must be hung up. More important than length limits of suspension components, the system will pressurise the bag to a higher pressure to maintain the extra height, while this won’t be a problem while operating at a sane height, when the suspension gets up past the original safety point the bag pressures will be significantly higher than originally designed, at this point the only thing stopping everything from going crap shaped is the strut / shock absorber which is now subject to significantly higher extension strains than designed for. Note: if using the rods these issues apply as well.

The calibration abilities of the EAS ECU were not intended for use in this manner, this is why Fault Mate & Testbook can’t do it. So my advice is to carefully think everything through before you go giving it a 3 inch lift because it will look tough…

Where are you going that you need a lift while towing??? Change the tow bar and I’d be very surprised if height was a problem.

[Homestar]

Hi, I got a reply from Steve from GAP Diagnostics regarding beta testers - there are still a limited number available.

He also asked me to post the following on his behalf regarding the original topic of this thread. He tried to register to post it himself, but had issues with the server.

Response for Aulro:

Hi Guys,
As I can't post in the forum, here are my answers by Gav-proxy :-p

As Gary mentioned, you can't alter the lockout for the towing module but you can alter the standard height setting using the IIDTool or EASControl. Both have the same functionality for programming the EAS - the IIDTool has greater diagnostic capabilities and also has diagnostic functions on other vehicle systems as well. Both also have 3 memory slots for personal settings as well as a restore function to go back to the original height settings. This way you can go from an 'off road towing' profile back to normal in a few clicks.

As Gary also mentioned, you can do this with a Faultmate as well (good product, btw!) or any of the other proper diagnostic systems made for Land Rovers. The difference between these (aside from the portability) and the IIDTool or EASControl is that for the 2002-06 L322, the IIDTool or EASControl allow changing each height setting individually: off road +15mm, standard +25mm, motorway -20mm, etc. All other diagnostic systems including the OEM T4/IDS only allow a recalibration of the baseline which moves all height settings as a batch. If standard were recalibrated to off road height, off road would be somewhere near the limit of suspension travel - and you'd need to hook up to a computer to go back. We will be adding this feature for the other models (late L322, RRS, LR3) later this year as well.

Regards,
Steve

[andrew e]

Big warning on giving a lift and driving around like Harlie said.

When I had It lifted +40 I think, I stuffed 2 airbags - which were on their last legs anyway, and chewed out my lower wishbone bushes.

I currently have it set at standard (with -20 lower on the bumpstop setting) and won't be lifting again by re-calibrating.

I think if I make up a spacer, like we have done for the p38, it will not overinflate the bags and ride better than just resetting the top height.

Andy

[flyboy]

Thanks Andrew,
when you say you were driving around at +40, are you meaning +40 on offroad height or +40 from standard height?
Im not sure how much higher than standard offroad height actually is, but i dont intend going higher than offroad height, id just like to obtain offroad height, but with a trailer on. Im not sure if i'll ever need it but id like to be able to come up to offroad height crossing a river etc, so probably not for extended distances....although I do think the 50km/hr limitation in the past has also been a bit restrictive. I dont want to break anything either though. I guess the main limitation is the point Harlie raised about the limitation of +90mm from standard which I need to find more out about....ie does this limit regularly get reached etc?

[Homestar]

I think if I make up a spacer, like we have done for the p38, it will not overinflate the bags and ride better than just resetting the top height.

Andy

Hi Andrew, do you mean a spacer between the top of the stut and the body? If so, does this put any extra stresses on lower suspension components? If you put say a 25mm spacer in, then recalibrated the EAS as discussed earlier to a standard ride hieght, this would then give you an instant 1" lift when you took it up to its normal offroad hieght -yes? or am I missing something? Does anyone make spacers for the L322, or am I going to be spending some time at my mates lathe?:p

Cheers - Gav

[stevemfr]

Server worked better and I managed to register this eve.
Hi everyone!

I just thought I'd pop in and join the fray. And try to help a bit. Andrew's problems weren't caused by over inflation. This is actually a bit of a common misperception when it comes to the EAS: when the suspension raises it actually doesn't raise the pressure in the air bags, it simply increases the volume of air in the bags.
It may sound counter-intuitive at first, but there are 2 things to consider that make it less so.
1. the air bag isn't a balloon that expands more and more the further it's blown up. Its more like a rubber hose that is attached to the strut or lower piston, depending on front or rear on an L322. As the suspension drops, the strut or piston raise up inside the middle of the bag, and this 'hose' rolls over the strut or piston and drops around the outside. As more air is pumped in, the strut or piston is pushed back out and the 'hose' unrolls more and more. So there is virtually no resistance from rubber having to be expanded.
2. x psi is needed to hold xy lbs up. This doesn't change through a larger airbag - only through more or less weight. More air volume is neede to inflate the larger bag, though.

As Andrew said, his bags were knackered. And lifting shifted the roll over point of the bags to a spot where they were straight - which the othrewise normally weren't. And the dry rotted rubber probably didn't take too well to this. Especially if they were being hammered off road. In a vehicle with good bags, the compressor does not put out enough pressure to pop the bags (tried it numerous times on different RRs :cool:)

One problem that the L322 does have when lifted is that you quickly run out of suspension travel on the front. A spacer would def help here if the vehicle is to be left lifted for long periods of time.

Standard height raised 40mm is 10mm over oem off road height IIRC (too tired to go check). Driving like this should actually be fine - but def not at high speed or as a permanent solution. And off road +40 would be 70mm over standard. If there is any droop left in the suspension at all at that point, it is not enough for safe driving.

HTH

[harlie]

Gav, If you are happy with the standard height, you can use the IID to set "Offroad" to +75 for example. This will give you an extra inch on the offroad mode while maintaining the safety limit point. Importantly most of the miles (wear) will be done at the height that bags, bushes, struts, wishbones ect ect were designed for.

On another thought, I played with the idea of making a new module to replace the trailer ECU, originally to get around the whole LED trailer light issue. Might put some more reading & effort into this, new module could handle the original Q as well. Essentially the signal that the Trailer ECU sends to the LCM via the KBus just needs to be stopped. Report back if anyone's interested - may even be able to put a switch on the KBus wire. This would kill the lock out of height changes, I just need to check what else the KBus delivers to the Trailer ECU.

[harlie]

Welcome aboard Steve! For those that don’t know, Steve is one of three clever chaps that have developed the IIDTool and EASControl modules.


....when it comes to the EAS: when the suspension raises it actually doesn't raise the pressure in the air bags, it simply increases the volume of air in the bags.
....

After working with Air suspension systems on heavy vehicles & trains for 10 years through the 90s I have to completely disagree with this statement, Although I was involved in the early electronic systems to run the suspension, I had the opportunity to gain workshop time to learn the mechanical systems intimately (“the electronic Air suspension must exceed the mechanical system” – that what our orders were anyway). Height changes Do increase pressure - some American & Aus built vehicles even had gauges on the rear bags (1 needle for each side in the same 60mm gauge) and you could watch the pressure go up and down with the kneel function on an empty bus.

x psi is needed to hold xy lbs up at the designed running length of the bellows - out side that length or xy lbs the pressure changes as well as the volume.

After we drained a system to replace a valve, line (commonly damaged from tyre failure), bag, brake servo ect ect the system was initially pressurised to 100-150kpa - roughly ½ the operating pressure of the suspension to check for leaks, and I can tell you the suspension raised part of the way at that point with the supply valves open – xy lbs is constant, psi is x/2 resulting in inflated suspension length much lower. The suspension would continue to slowly rise until tank pressure reached the operating suspension pressure at which point the supply valves would close. I know that the length was not proportionate to the pressure but it definitely changed.

Admittedly I’ve not played with the L322 suspension in anywhere near as much detail, (I did however My old Classic and it did the same) but they (LR and trucks) are all using rolling bellows over piston (trains are different) – so I fail to see how L322 would be different.

MOVING ON In saying that I’m sure that the bellows can handle extra pressure - if it is the case or not, it’s not the real issue – what I am concerned about is the loads on struts, bushes ect. The L322 has a load sharing function which is how a corner will continue to extend past the safety point – this from my experience with air systems is where major failure occur, Scania even fitted ½ inch chains (beside the shock) to the load sharing bogies during the 90s because of this issue – the shock would fail from extension force due to load sharing, the bellows would then blow the piston out and the side of the vehicle would crash to the stop of the other axle usually damaging something else with the all the weight dropping suddenly on one bumpstop. This conveniently would usually happen while entering/exiting a client’s driveway…

As has been mentioned, moving the rolling point of a bellows also causes problems, without seeing Andrew’s failed bags I can’t comment on his case, but it is another warning for all. We all have rolling point fatigue unless we have <6month old bags, with the exception of a few we are all running original bags – changing the rolling point (standard height) will shorten the life of (worn in) bellows, only difference here is they will start to leak as opposed to catastrophic failure.

[stevemfr]

Thank you for the warm welcome, harlie! Credit where credit is due, tho: I actually didn't have anything to do with the development of the EASControl - that was the 2 clever Canadians Christian and Patrick. I have been mainly responsible for the commercial side of GAP Diagnostic.

You are definitely correct that there is surely a pressure difference in the bag at 2 different heights. But it is insignificant - and the point I was trying to make is that this is not the cause of bags popping.

There are numerous factors that affect the actual pressure in the bags at a given length including the construction of the bag itself, the angle at which the bag exerts pressure on the suspension, construction of the suspension, etc. In theory, though, with a constant static load suspended at different heights by compressed air, changes in height will all result in the same pressures as the static load is always exerting the same downward force (weight).

I can imagine that with the loads you guys were working with you were seeing relatively significant pressure fluctuations, but taken as a whole, once the bag was within its operating range the differences at rest (static) should not have been too extreme.

And you are definitely right on the loads placed on various suspension components at heights the suspension was not designed for. And, an item that we have spent quite a bit of time worrying about: safety. Not only the raised CG of the vehicle, but the ability of the suspension to cope with road imperfections can be severely compromised by raising (or lowering) a suspension. A vehicle is safe and controllable when the tires are in contact with the road - even if that road is a pothole or a berm. If a tire is in the air you are not driving, you are on a trajectory.

Changing the height of the EAS without changing anything else on the suspension, regardless of how its done (EASControl, rods, recalibration...), dictates moderate changes (def less than 2"). And the faster you go, the closer to stock height you should be. For your own sake as well as for the others you share the road with.

[33chinacars]

Hi Steve

Welcome to AULRO. Hope you enjoy. Actually good to see you on this side of the world with us right way up folk Ha Ha. I'm sure you will be able to have some valuable imput here too

Gary

[stevemfr]

Thanks Gary! Nice to be here. Haven't had much time to look around, but I seem to feel very much at home - even upside down.:p