winches - plasma rope or wire cable?

[Ozzy119]

Hi all,

Just curious for some views and opinions really. I'll soon be organising a bar and winch so wondered whether to bother getting the cable changed to a plasma. It would shed quite a bit of weight from the final install but is it worth it?

thanks,

[Ivan]

Definitely Plasma. The first winch I had had wire rope and it was a PITA. I now have Plasma and it's much better. Lighter, easier to handle, does not take your head off if it snaps.....

HTH

Ivan

[Xtreme]

Try the 'search' function - this subject/comparison has already been discussed at length.

[Slunnie]

I think steel if you want to have it on and forget about it over the years - just in case you get stuck type of thing. If you use it regularly or semi-regularly for playing etc then plasma as it's lighter, doesn't recoil much but I don't think it has the same life as steel when on the bar.

[Tank]

Plasma rope will die if you put any heat into it, like heat from the drum brake on your winch, also will destroy itself if you drag it (under load) over rock. It's light, but it needs to washed thoroughly if immersed in mud, otherwise internal grit will destroy and cut fibres, it's light and floats.
Wire Rope is fine and as long as you use it to it's WLL/SWL and not the Bull**** rated load as stated by the Manufacturer/Seller, which is usually the Guaranteed Breaking Strain. For example most winches are "RATED" by the Seller /Manufacturer, at 4100kg./5500kg.. Most winches will have, on average a 10mm dia. IWRC cable with a WLL/SWL of 1200kgs.. It's no wonder winch cables break when end users use them at the "RATED" advertised load.
IWRC (Independent Wire Rope Core/ 7 Strand) does not like being put around the small diameter snatch blocks available, the small dia. roller stretches the outside of the wire and compresses the inside (closest to the roller), this can cause kinks in the wire and broken wires (spiders), which usually stand proud and can cut your hand. Wire rope does not need as much maintenace as Plasma, but it will take a hell of a lot more abuse, good luck with your choice, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Definitely Plasma. The first winch I had had wire rope and it was a PITA. I now have Plasma and it's much better. Lighter, easier to handle, does not take your head off if it snaps.....

HTH

Ivan
Ivan, was genuinely wondering why you had problems with your wire rope on your winch, what didn't you like about it, Regards Frank.

[Hymie]

I'm with Tank.
Steel Wire Rope is much harder wearing and with care will last a lifetime. Dyneema Ropes and their Plasma "Cousins"are relative newcomers and have not proven their longevity yet IMHO.
I do have concerns about the heat resistance and UV stability of these new "Wonder Ropes", although I have read that the Synthetic Ropes in sunlight form an protective layer that protects them from further degradation.
(http://www.colligomarine.com/docs/respecttherope/RTRDyn1.pdf)

When I service my winch I pull my Steel rope out and scrub it clean with a wire brush and lightly oil it before relaying it onto the drum.

[Blknight.aus]

you seen plasma on a tow truck or proper recovery vehicle yet?

that about sums it up.

[123rover50]

They dont use toy electric winches either

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Plasma for me, everytime, Why:

1. As others have said, recall is MUCH less than with steel and consequently much safer.
2. You don't need to be careful when spooling back onto the drum, just let it pull itself on.
3. You don't get those broken strands that slice through a few layers of skin when you aren't looking.
4. Less spring weight on the vehicle.
5. Easier to handle.
6. Easier to repair in the bush if it does break - just tie a good knot it in.
7. Doesn't go rusty and stiff like steel.

All that said, you do need to look after it. If it gets blathered in mud it is a good idea to unspool and give it a soaking in a bucket. It is true that the rope is more suceptable to heat damage than steel.

UV protection is something that is still unknown to a large extent, however, I always slide a protective sheath / marker tape over the final and first 3m. 3m on the end of the rope is to protect from UV rays when on the drum, the 3m sheath on the other end is so that I can tell when Im about to pull off the drum.


Whilst you don't see plasma on recovery trucks, thats probably more to do with economics and or lack of education of operators.

All the competition boys use it. I haven't seen steel on a comp truck for many years.


As a side note, the number of badly fitted hooks Ive seen on the end of steel wires whilst Ive been here in Oz is ridiculous. Does anyone actually use a thimble on the inside of the wire return? I think 99% of all winch wires Ive seen simply have a loop made in the wire and the M8 hook bolt is the connection. The M8 hook bolt should rest against a thimble to distribute stresses in the wire along the length of the thimble so as to reduce fatigue and chance of failure. Even worse, the majority of plasma ropes Ive seen are also fitted in this way. No wonder its got a bad rep...

[Blknight.aus]

2. You don't need to be careful when spooling back onto the drum, just let it pull itself on.

The very next winch I get that has the plasma spooled over into the side of the drum between the gearbox and the end flange or the motor mount and the end flange because some operator has listened to that bit of advice I am going to unmount said winch complete with rope buy an airline ticket for it and me and then I am going to hit you in the joy department with it...

the reason plasma is not on real winches is because its easily damaged and weighs a bit. nothing to do with operator training, its simple economics, drop coolant, fuel or brake fluid on it and you can cactus the rope quite quickly, drag it over one sharp rock and its gone as well.

[rick130]

Of course all this talk of plasma not being used on real winches is a little disingenuous seeing as what industry it came from and where it's primary use is ;)

(and I still use wire for the reasons Frank mentioned above, and BTW, how much weight does a drum full of plasma/spectra save over wire on, say, a low mount ? Not being smart, it's a genuine Q )

[Yorkshire_Jon]

The very next winch I get that has the plasma spooled over into the side of the drum between the gearbox and the end flange or the motor mount and the end flange because some operator has listened to that bit of advice I am going to unmount said winch complete with rope buy an airline ticket for it and me and then I am going to hit you in the joy department with it...



Ok, so maybe I should have said its easier to spool back on than wire because it doesn't birds nest and kink, rather than say just let it pull itself on. On reflection not the best use of English:)

However, if some operator (should read muppet) allows a rope to get tangled in the workings of the winch then they don't deserve to own it.

Still stand by the basis of what I said though.

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[Blknight.aus]

Of course all this talk of plasma not being used on real winches is a little disingenuous seeing as what industry it came from and where it's primary use is ;)

(and I still use wire for the reasons Frank mentioned above, and BTW, how much weight does a drum full of plasma/spectra save over wire on, say, a low mount ? Not being smart, it's a genuine Q )

depends on the drum, cable size length ETC but length for length up to 20KG

if you keep winding the drum to capacity on both cables (and I dont reccomend this) about 5-10KG

[Blknight.aus]

Of course all this talk of plasma not being used on real winches is a little disingenuous seeing as what industry it came from and where it's primary use is ;)

yeah shipping lines, where its tendancy to float and flex is a great advantage. not many sharp edges on the water though.

[Tank]

Ok, so maybe I should have said its easier to spool back on than wire because it doesn't birds nest and kink, rather than say just let it pull itself on. On reflection not the best use of English:)

However, if some operator (should read muppet) allows a rope to get tangled in the workings of the winch then they don't deserve to own it.

Still stand by the basis of what I said though.

Sent using Forum Runner
The reason wire rope kinks and gets broken wires standing proud is because 4WD winches have too small a drum and snatch blocks are too small as well, plus the fact that they are dangerously overloaded, Regards Frank.

[Hymie]

The reason wire rope kinks and gets broken wires standing proud is because 4WD winches have too small a drum and snatch blocks are too small as well, plus the fact that they are dangerously overloaded, Regards Frank.


That and the fact that SWR is "live" and needs to be properly unwound to get the radial tension out of it or it will kink.
I've never seen anybody mention "Reverse Reeving" in any of the "How to winch your bogged Fourby Out" videos or magazine articles, and I'm amazed at how many I see it happen to.
When I explain to then that SWR should only go from left to right, or right to left depending on the rope Lay I usually get told to go away, sometimes Politely, more often, not.

[rick130]

The reason wire rope kinks and gets broken wires standing proud is because 4WD winches have too small a drum and snatch blocks are too small as well, plus the fact that they are dangerously overloaded, Regards Frank.


That and the fact that SWR is "live" and needs to be properly unwound to get the radial tension out of it or it will kink.
I've never seen anybody mention "Reverse Reeving" in any of the "How to winch your bogged Fourby Out" videos or magazine articles, and I'm amazed at how many I see it happen to.
When I explain to then that SWR should only go from left to right, or right to left depending on the rope Lay I usually get told to go away, sometimes Politely, more often, not.

So for the casual user, synthetic rope may be a better option (if abrasion and cleanliness are looked after)

[blitz]

Plasma or dyneema which ever you want to call it has much less kinetic energy than wire therefore much safer if it breaks, which is why it is used so much in the comps. (mandatory in some I believe)

Also it does not get kinks and flat spots nor does it have a memory so it doesn't coil up when unwound with no tension on it or have sharp little strands sticking out to get under unwary finger nails.

Being a hydrocarbon byproduct it melts and burns and is not as abrasion proof as wire.

i run wire simply because that is what I have, might look at it when I get my winch back together depends on cost as I already have the wire to go back on.

[clubagreenie]

The primary consideration here is that the cheaper winches have the brake inside the drum and so overheat the rope. Only the warn and tigerz that I know of do have external brakes in either the gearbox or external to the drum.

[weeds]

i run a steel rope on my pto winch, why? its cheap and i rarely use it i.e. once in 4 years, if the steel rope ever needs replacing i will consider buying plasma............i thinking the wire rope will still be around when i move on

as i could not find an off the shelf fairlead wide enough for the PTO i installed a cast iron hawse fairlead (too narrow as well) but liked the fact that it doesn't protrude to the fron as much as rollers, seems to work but is a pain getting the rope to lay nicely across the drum

[land864]

What about length. Can you fit the same length of plasma on a winch drum as cable?

[clubagreenie]

Probably a bit more as it lays flat but then you can't spool it neatly onto the drum so you loose a bit there.

[weeds]

What about length. Can you fit the same length of plasma on a winch drum as cable?

i would reckon more.........

[vnx205]

.... .. .. ..
When I explain to then that SWR should only go from left to right, or right to left depending on the rope Lay I usually get told to go away, sometimes Politely, more often, not.
Can you explain a bit more? Do you mean the direction the turns of rope go across the drum. Surely the direction reverses with each layer. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood what you meant.


The primary consideration here is that the cheaper winches have the brake inside the drum and so overheat the rope. . ... .. ... ...
.
How hot do the brakes get? Why do they get hot? Is the drum really revolving with the brakes applied?

Just curious. I don't even own a winch, but some day I might find myself working with someone who is using one.

[rick130]

Can you explain a bit more? Do you mean the direction the turns of rope go across the drum. Surely the direction reverses with each layer. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood what you meant.


How hot do the brakes get? Why do they get hot? Is the drum really revolving with the brakes applied?

Just curious. I don't even own a winch, but some day I might find myself working with someone who is using one.

On low mount winches the brake is housed inside the drum but only works in reverse, eg. if you are letting a vehicle down a ledge or something like that so with careful use a synthetic rope shouldn't be an issue, and most syn ropes are sold with an overwrap (kevlar or nomex ?) for the first few metres of rope so that the first layer on the drum is protected from any potential heat anyway.

I'll leave the wire stuff up to Frank and Hymie as I know about enough to be dangerous :angel:

[Hymie]

Can you explain a bit more? Do you mean the direction the turns of rope go across the drum. Surely the direction reverses with each layer. Perhaps I have completely misunderstood what you meant.



Not at all mate, here is a bit of advanced Winching theory.


What I am talking about is the lay of the rope and the way ir runs around Snatch Blocks.
For clarity, I use the term Rope to mean Steel Wire Rope.
If you look at a Steel Wire Rope such as these,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1554.jpg
You will see that ropes are broken down into Left and Right Hand Lay and Ordinary and Lang Lay.

Ordinary Lay Ropes are used in applications where they are expected to bend, ie around snatch blocks or used as Slings

Lang Lay Ropes are used in Applications such as Bridge Stays where their load is transmitted Longitudinally along the rope length.

The ropes on Recovery winches are mostly Right Hand Ordinary Lay ropes.
What this means is that when setting up recovery tackle, ie Snatch Blocks, the idea is to reeve the rope from left to right through the block, this way, under load the lay of the rope will enable the rope to compress a smidgin and run freely around the Block.
If the rope is "Reverse Reeved" that is run from right to left through the block, under pressure the lay of the rope is forced to twist open and flatten the rope out which, if there is enough tension (Load) on the Rope it may fail catastrophically through the loss of its structural integrity.
If multiple snatch blocks are used it can lead to a bloody great big tangle as everything fights its way to where it wants to be.

Sorry if it's a bit long winded, but if you have any more questions please ask.

[clubagreenie]

On low mount winches the brake is housed inside the drum but only works in reverse, eg. if you are letting a vehicle down a ledge or something like that so with careful use a synthetic rope shouldn't be an issue, and most syn ropes are sold with an overwrap (kevlar or nomex ?) for the first few metres of rope so that the first layer on the drum is protected from any potential heat anyway.

I'll leave the wire stuff up to Frank and Hymie as I know about enough to be dangerous :angel:

Thus is correct but I'm yet to see a synthetic rope with a overlay that's long enough to cover the entire first wrap anbd is something that is heat insulative.

The cover on most is only there as an indication as to how much should be left on the drum, this "min spooled length" is longer than on a steel rope and is another consideration.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

i would reckon more.........

From memory my Warn 9.5XP came with 98 feet of 8mm wire.

It now accommodates 111 feet of 11mm Dyneema (no winch mods necessary).

Sent using Forum Runner

[Tusker]

snip
Thus is correct but I'm yet to see a synthetic rope with a overlay that's long enough to cover the entire first wrap anbd is something that is heat insulative.

Agreed. And no-one's mentioned overheating a low mount with internal brakes. Wire rope acts as a heat sink, plasma as an insulator.

Contrary to some posts above, I've rarely seen any damage to plasma in self recovery. You don't drag it over rocks, the cable is stationary. It follows though that care is needed when recovering others - you're stationary & the cable is moving.

Plasma is just easier to use, and lasts longer compared to the kinks in wire rope I used to get.

If your plasma does get a bath in mud, it's pretty easy to get all the abrasives out - take it off & chuck it in the washing machine periodically. Getting it on & off is dead easy compared to wire.

Plenty of us convert to plasma and never look back. I have yet to meet anyone who has felt the need to go back to wire.

Regards
Max P

[clubagreenie]

I've used wire for 25+years, including for slings and winches. I'll never look back. I've dealt with a local wire rope manufacturer and wanted a new hook spliced onto my syn and while they hadn't dealt with splicing it previously theywere willing to do it once they had all trained to do it. Their issue was that they didn't have a sample or stock to use so I just gave them mine and the rep from the company came out and we all (they let me sit in) got to lean the ropes (sorry).

I clean mine after each trip in the washing machine even including some soap (just use sunlight flakes or flake sunlight bar into it) or in the current rain I keep an eye on it and when it dries out I'll service the winch and again wash the rope while it's off.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Just curious about the washing machine...

What do you do with the hook? Doesn't it knock the bejesus out of the drum? I reckon the mrs would do similar to me if there were big dents in the drum and mud on the next wash:)

That's why mine goes in a big bucket every now and again!

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[clubagreenie]

I get a jumbo car sponge and cut a pocket in it and cable tie it on.

[Tusker]

Yep I do something similar.

Try it, you'll be amazed what the machine pumps out compared to a bucket wash.

Regards
Max P

[rovercare]

The wire rope fans just persist as synthetic rope won't work on their tirfor, electric winches are for sissy's

But for those that have used synthetic rope, they don't go back

Although if you are likely to use your winch once every year or few, wire is better suited but if you winch a few times a year or more, synthetic all the way

[Bardizzo]

This might be of interest

www.discovery2.co.uk* - Winch Rope Heat sleeve (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/winch_sleeve.html)

Cheers

Dave

[Blknight.aus]

Im actually happy with either. and I'll generally pick the one most applicable for the application. Single line pulls, IF Im wading through swamps or need the reach I'll generally use the synthetic . If Im reeving or pulling on rough stuff I'll take SWR over synthetic,

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Im actually happy with either. and I'll generally pick the one most applicable for the application. Single line pulls, IF Im wading through swamps or need the reach I'll generally use the synthetic . If Im reeving or pulling on rough stuff I'll take SWR over synthetic,

Get on the fence why don't you:)

I sort of agree with you in an ideal world, but we don't lie there!

Not many people carry both, or could be arsed to change rope-wire or vice versa every time they get stuck!

J

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[JohnF]

This might be of interest

www.discovery2.co.uk* - Winch Rope Heat sleeve (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/winch_sleeve.html)

Cheers

Dave

I wish I had a winch but dont-- cant afford one as I am a pensioner, so am not an expert.

I was wondering about a large diameter plastic pipe as in a gutter down pipe, split and put around the drum as a heat barrier before I read this far.

As far as the problem of abrasion on Rocks. I did absailing, canyoning & caving when I was younger. We had rope protectors, a leangth of canvas with velcro strips down the side to hold it around rope, and a cord to tie it to the rope so it would not slide of the position we wanted it. which could wrap around the expensive climbing rope where it ran over the rocks to stop abrasion.

I cannot gaurantee this would work with winching ropes but may be worth a try.

I would be suprised if you cannot find these on line in shops supplying climbing ropes. look for rope protectors, at least that is what these were called years ago.

Would love to hear if this was successful.

[clubagreenie]

The drum is part of the ropes ability to grip and nor slip and release. The end stopper/clip thingy doesn't play much part in keeping the rope on the drum. Where as a wire rope may pass through a hole in the drum and then have a grip on it to stop it pulling through and only need 3-4 turns to stay on and may be laid neatly on the drum. Synthetic ropes need 6-8 turns and are better suited to being laid across in wider passes making it appear messier but will grip better and more importantly compress less so you get less movement of the rope.

[Tusker]

I wish I had a winch but dont-- cant afford one as I am a pensioner, so am not an expert.

I was wondering about a large diameter plastic pipe as in a gutter down pipe, split and put around the drum as a heat barrier before I read this far.

As far as the problem of abrasion on Rocks. I did absailing, canyoning & caving when I was younger. We had rope protectors, a leangth of canvas with velcro strips down the side to hold it around rope, and a cord to tie it to the rope so it would not slide of the position we wanted it. which could wrap around the expensive climbing rope where it ran over the rocks to stop abrasion.

I cannot gaurantee this would work with winching ropes but may be worth a try.

I would be suprised if you cannot find these on line in shops supplying climbing ropes. look for rope protectors, at least that is what these were called years ago.

Would love to hear if this was successful.

Yes quite successful. Some plasmas come with this, just slide up & down to suit.

Just don't forget it & try & wind it in with the cable :angel:


Other than that, no problems.

Regards
Max P

[sam_d]

Sorry to revive this old thread but I am considering changing the steel rope on my winch for Dyneema Synthetic Rope.

My winch (an Aldi version of the IronMan 9500lb) doesn't actually get used very often at all but it still needs to be maintained and the regular process of unspooling the cable, cleaning it, oiling it, then respooling it is, as has been mentioned. a PITA mainly due to the weight and awkwardness of the steel cable.

Based on comments previously made regarding synthetic rope needing more turns around the drum and and the drum being able to take on more length of synthetic rope compared to steel rope would it be worth going for 35m long rope to replace the existing 30m steel?

[Tank]

Sorry to revive this old thread but I am considering changing the steel rope on my winch for Dyneema Synthetic Rope.

My winch (an Aldi version of the IronMan 9500lb) doesn't actually get used very often at all but it still needs to be maintained and the regular process of unspooling the cable, cleaning it, oiling it, then respooling it is, as has been mentioned. a PITA mainly due to the weight and awkwardness of the steel cable.

Based on comments previously made regarding synthetic rope needing more turns around the drum and and the drum being able to take on more length of synthetic rope compared to steel rope would it be worth going for 35m long rope to replace the existing 30m steel?
If you want synthetic rope to last then there is heaps more maintenance compared to a wire rope. Just driving through a mud hole that submerges your rope will mean a complete removal and careful washing and drying, too much bull**** for my liking, Regards Frank.

[slug_burner]

Not sure about more maintenance? If the synthetic rope gets wet, what happens? I can't see it rotting or rusting. Two issues with synthetic, they will degrade with exposure to ultraviolet radiation (I'd get a velcroded sleeve I could wrap around the drum to keep the sun off the rope). Second thing is that the rope is not as tuff so if you are going to drag a vehicle and the rope has to touch rocks when under tension then it is likely to fray, you would need something to place between the rocks and rope to stop the scuffing.

[Blknight.aus]

and when the synthetic gets full of mud and sits there loosely wound rubbing against itself it chafes itself apart.

[rovercare]

and when the synthetic gets full of mud and sits there loosely wound rubbing against itself it chafes itself apart.

Have you ever actually had synthetic rope own your own personal winch?

[Blknight.aus]

yep, had a winch that came with it on.

Turfed it because of the crappy condition it was in and it was supposedly only 2 years old. the damage was a combination of knots from where it had been broken, chafing and UV exposure had made it flakey. IT also wasnt helped by the fact that it was on a thomas winch that had the grooves on the drum to get the first layer of SWR to sit correctly.

The plasmas Good stuff and has is better in some applications than SWR, And SWR is better than plasma in others. IMHO the plasma is just not as durable as the SWR (and a lot more expensive given my sources of SWR)

The rough method I use for selecting which of the 2 should be applied is to work out which part is moving.

If Im pulling the vehile towards an object then generally the Plasma wins it hands down, its lighter, easier to work with and spool than the SWR. If Im pulling the object to the vehicle or reeving I prefer the SWR as your then potentially dragging the rope through the terrain

As im also a big fan of the Tirfor the plasma has one more disadvantage. It wont work in a tirfor, most wire winch cables will.

(its also on Laras winch which is my dads ride, and its great for him being easy to handle and friendly on old semi arthritic fingers and wrists)

[Blknight.aus]

Get on the fence why don't you:)

I sort of agree with you in an ideal world, but we don't lie there!

Not many people carry both, or could be arsed to change rope-wire or vice versa every time they get stuck!

J

Sent using Forum Runner

Sorry I missed this post earlier...

I'd just about put a 5er on if you went to an outing and needed a winch you would have a choice of 3-4 vehicles with winches of those some would run Steel others would run plasma. you can now pick which is the most suitable winch for the job you have at hand.


End of the day it doesnt bother me too much as my main winch is a capstan (just got to finish fitting the bugger) so bring on your steel, plasma, hemp, synthetic and jute fiber ropes. If its min turning diameter is inside the narrow diameter of the capstan and I can get the required number of turns on to make it grip its Winch on baby.

[123rover50]

Its a shame the Landy Capstan is only rated at 3000 pounds.

[Blknight.aus]

bet I can lay on a 12T pull using it as the only winching source.

[Loubrey]

Once saw a Series III shorty winch 9 other Land Rovers of all descriptions up a "green ice" meadow in Derbyshire using his capstan winch. Can't say H&S would be impressed with the operation, but a natural fibre rope of around an inch and a bit on the capstan and he rescued a whole day out.

Note for those unfamiliar with the term: Green Ice is used to describe wet grass on black clay topsoil as found in the British Midlands.

I'm personally a fan of synthetic, mostly for the weight saving on 30m of wire rope and the fairhead (the hawse is usually alloy or plastic) of around 11kg and secondly for the ease of handling it. I've used wire extensively over the years and I firmly believe in its merrits as described and no argument you guys who clearly work in the lifting and hoisting industries and prefer that to synthetic.

My only gripe as usual is the ludicrous price of prepared synthetic line here in Australia. 35m would cost you exactly double the price charged in the UK and without the weight of the hook, the delivery charge is negligible!

[123rover50]

bet I can lay on a 12T pull using it as the only winching source.

Yep. I carry snatch blocks too.

[123rover50]

I also bought this.
4 ton breaking strain.

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380187168327'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)

Keith

[Tank]

Ok, so maybe I should have said its easier to spool back on than wire because it doesn't birds nest and kink, rather than say just let it pull itself on. On reflection not the best use of English:)

However, if some operator (should read muppet) allows a rope to get tangled in the workings of the winch then they don't deserve to own it.

Still stand by the basis of what I said though.

Sent using Forum Runner
In one breath you say some muppet allows a rope to be damaged, yet you say that your wire rope is kinked, broken strands etc. seems you treat wire rope like **** then complain about the outcome. Try treating your plasma (whatever) rope the same way you have treated your wire rope and see how long it doesn't last, regards Frank.

[VladTepes]

Look it's like this. IMHO.

If you want something that will be there for use IF you get stuck, dyneema/plasma will be fine. But cover the winch drum with something to protect the rope from UV.

If you want to use the winch as a working winch - e.g. dragging logs, winching deer carcasses into trees, and so on then wire rope is a must.

Whatever you do and irrespective of which rope you have, ALWAYS pretend its heavily stressed wire rope and act accordingly. It's dangerous, not the plaything many seem to think. And just because dyneema/plasma is "safer" than wire rope does NOT make it 'safe".

[Tank]

Its a shame the Landy Capstan is only rated at 3000 pounds.
That would be the SWL which is usually 1/5 of the guaranteed breaking strain, so 3,000lbs ain't bad, would do me, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

I also bought this.
4 ton breaking strain.

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380187168327'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)

Keith
The SWL is less than 1 Ton though, regards Frank.

[clubagreenie]

I use synthetic but also carry at least one steel rope extension for dragging, or running across rocks etc. I had a set made years ago of 2 x each 5, 10 & 20m plus a 35m. was fine on the series wrapped around the bumper (also had steel on the PTO in that). Harder to wrap the D2 tube bar though, could look good, start redesign... now.

I'm attempting to budget in for a new rope, The guys in Girraween were great when it came to the steel years ago and have been my source for all lifting and pulling gear for 20+ years. When I asked them about dyneema they hadn't dealt with it previously but organised the rep to come out and do an info/training session for all their employees and allowed me to sit in to learn the ropes (sorry), and get training on splicing etc.

If anyone is interested check out the website for Samson ropes under winch ropes. It has a great deal of info on their ropes and constructions plus videos on tying and splicing.
Samson-The Strongest Name in Rope, Winch Lines (http://www.samsonrope.com/index.cfm?page=11&app=30)

[goingbush]

Thinking of changing my steel winch rope to dyneema / plasma purely to save weight over the front axle as its sitting a little low on the standard progressive springs.

I already tried heavier front springs but then the articulation is poor in comparison.

Dumb question, anyone know if the roller fairlead will work with synthetic rope or do I need a hawse fairlead. ( yes I realise it will save a few kilos too)

[isuzutoo-eh]

Roller fairleads are meant to be a risk with synthetic ropes, as the rope can get caught in a corner between rollers and damaged. Hence the vast majority use a solid hawse fairlead.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I had the OEM steel cable changed to synthetic when the winch bar was fitted up. I should get someone to fit an eye to the other end of the steel cable and use it as an extra in the recovery equipment.

[Loubrey]

Thinking of changing my steel winch rope to dyneema / plasma purely to save weight over the front axle as its sitting a little low on the standard progressive springs.

I already tried heavier front springs but then the articulation is poor in comparison.

Dumb question, anyone know if the roller fairlead will work with synthetic rope or do I need a hawse fairlead. ( yes I realise it will save a few kilos too)

You can get an aluminium hawse for around $35 and save an extra 4kg (measured against the standard Warn) and avoid any mechanical pinch on the rollers.

[DT-P38]

If you are serious about buying, checkout tigerz11.com.au they have some excellent pricing at the moment (and not just on rope). Product is good quality and freight is competitive too.

[goingbush]

Ditto, I just got the TIGERZ11 alloy offset hawse, from their ebay shop, delivered in 2 days, Exactly the same item is selling on other ebay vendors for twice the price. Next time I'm in Bayswater I'll drop in for a look.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Tigerz11's 10mm rope is 90c per metre more than I paid last week from an ebay seller, with free postage. Item number 150588169840. Might be able to push them a little cheaper again, who knows.

[clubagreenie]

Bad choice Mark, only suits Hi Luxs and Patrols according to the listing.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Bad choice Mark, only suits Hi Luxs and Patrols according to the listing.

What else could possibly need recovering?

[Mick-Kelly]

329 squid for a 12000 pound winch :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[clubagreenie]

Well it could always pull someones series or county onto a tilt tray...

[goingbush]

My plastic rope arrived the other day $157 Delivered from china & with fittings, Bargain , 30m & I could not have squeezed any more on the Warn low mount..
eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/270946343618'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649)

I've always been a bit sus about this plastic rope but Today I was on a work site & a 3 ton tipper arrived with a load of screenings & got bogged , trapping me on the site. I broke my tree protector winching him out , Rope intact, Im a convertee !!

[Loubrey]

Not really from China if the agent is in Hong Kong...

He most probably just acted as intermediary between you and the supplier (who would have to be licensed to use the word "Dynema").

Regardless, weldone and welcome to the world of the converted!!!:D

[clubagreenie]

Looking at the ebay pics I'm not happy about the eye splicing technique used. They have literally spliced it back using a traditional splicing technique (being 12 strand double it has two threads passing through each feed). I had a rope manufacturer re-splice my eye with a thimble and new locking hook and they wouldn't touch it (hadn't worked with dyneema before) until the rep came out and instructed them how to do it. Bonus was my rope was the demonstrator/practice rope so they all got to learn and I got a freebie.

This is the best video I've yet found on what I've found to be more than one manufacturers method to splice 12 strand.

How To Splice An Eye In 12 Strand/Spectra/Dyneema Rope - YouTube

[clubagreenie]

Found a new go to guy for ropes.

Splicing and Cutting
3/23 Eddie Road
Minchinbury NSW
96779877

Dropped in today after the usual supplier recommended them for cut lengths of dyneema. He has a wealth of knowledge, is pretty willing to share and totally poo poo any bad ideas and recommend what you need. Best part is wholesale only but if you go to the trouble to find him well you get wholesale prices as well (their is no retail list). Example, 12mm dyneema winch line, $6-75/m. They are working with a new supplier and are waiting on a new order of winch lines, crimped drum end and eye spliced with stainless thimble for very competitive prices.

[clubagreenie]

Further to this I also got a replacement thimble for my dyneema. A tubular type, never seem one before but better for synthetic as it is far more resistant to twisting and elongating under load and no sharp ends to catch the line.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/images/P/180522-k-200.jpg

[steveG]

Apologies if this has been posted before, but I found these instructions from Nobles on an alternative splice method thats pretty simple, and only requires the use of the free end of the rope (not both ends like the Youtube demo above).

It might look a bit rough, but the note at the end of the article states that they have done a number of destructive tests on ropes spliced using this method and all have failed in tension, not by failure of the splice itself.

http://www.nobles.com.au/media/11946/supermax_4wd_splicing_instructions.pdf

Steve

[NavyDiver]

I also bought this.
4 ton breaking strain.

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380187168327'ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)

Keith

Hi Keith, most salty types might sugget sisal rope is only for tying things up and not for weight bearings as it is prone to let go in a unpredicatble manner. Your link suggest "Scouting projects using manila" which is a thought I agree with fully for anything which involves human life mate.
That is the good news if you consider the splinters sisal often gives:(