Transfer lever not holding

[jasonedu]

Hi everyone,

I am having trouble with the transfer lever. The centre diff lock light comes and goes as it pleases in both high and low range. In addition it often pops out the first time I engage low or high range.

It is definitely not just the light as I discovered the problem after really struggling up Mt Gibbo. One of the guys I was with commented that only one wheel was spinning whenever I stopped moving forward.

We found we could get around the problem by holding the lever firmly in place. My wife felt that whenever we needed traction the lever wanted move - not sure how much weight to put on that though (dont tell her :-)

Any ideas what could be causing this?

Puma 130

[87County]

The linkage arrangement can wear ... if you "get out and get under" you can probably see the problem is less than full engagement in the "locked" position - which can usually be fixed in the field by pushing it into full engagement by hand :)

otherwise, the thing would be to fix it or have it fixed before the next time you need it :)

likely nothing serious to worry about

[Beckford]

It could need to be adjusted.

I had the same issue on my Puma. It would jump out of Centre Diff Lock. And sometimes was difficult to take out of Centre Diff Lock. (got lots of funny looks when driving back & forward)

Got it adjusted on my 20,000km service. Hope this helps.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

There's a little trick to engaging high or low range......
You put the gearbox in first....then with the clutch down...you engage low range....and keep holding the lever......then ease the the clutch out so it just starts to engage and take up the free play in the drive line and you should feel the low range lever move a little bit more and fully engage.....

This was how land rover showed us to select high or low range.....



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[4wheeler]

I had a similar problem (may not be the same) with my Defender Puma. It popped out of low/high a few times or would not stay in diff lock mode. Bumps on the track caused slight movement of the lever assembly and it would jump out. I felt the lever was not coming back far enough or going forward far enough when operated.

In my case, I adjusted the lever length by unlocking the red adjuster of the control rod on the right hand side( passenger side) of the box just forward the transfer case (engine side) and I think I lengthened the rod length so the lever slotted back further when pulled back in high range. 35,000km later and it has not jumped out since, even of rough rock crawling slogs. At the time I got the dealer to confirm/check my handywork and they said all good.

[lardy]

You get wind up in the box sometimes and going in reverse can help this if it refuses to come out of low to high, maybe refer to the handbook on transfer box operation if you still have one available.
With regard jumping out of high or low speak to land rover see if they recommend any fixes.
Regards Andy.


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[landoman]

I had a similar problem (may not be the same) with my Defender Puma. It popped out of low/high a few times or would not stay in diff lock mode. Bumps on the track caused slight movement of the lever assembly and it would jump out. I felt the lever was not coming back far enough or going forward far enough when operated.

In my case, I adjusted the lever length by unlocking the red adjuster of the control rod on the right hand side( passenger side) of the box just forward the transfer case (engine side) and I think I lengthened the rod length so the lever slotted back further when pulled back in high range. 35,000km later and it has not jumped out since, even of rough rock crawling slogs. At the time I got the dealer to confirm/check my handywork and they said all good.

I have had this problem ( diff lock popping out soon as you get a few track bumps ) since I got my defender 2 years ago ....took it in to landrover a few times now and each time they say it’s fix ed they say it’s fixed ....but the problem remains

Am tempted to try the above fix but would need a bit more guidance on how to approach it

Is this some addjustment that is made from underneath the car or attacked top down from the
Range selector stick ( which is also the diff lock engagement stick )

thoughts guidance welcome

[DazzaTD5]

Hi everyone,

I am having trouble with the transfer lever. The centre diff lock light comes and goes as it pleases in both high and low range. In addition it often pops out the first time I engage low or high range.

It is definitely not just the light as I discovered the problem after really struggling up Mt Gibbo. One of the guys I was with commented that only one wheel was spinning whenever I stopped moving forward.

We found we could get around the problem by holding the lever firmly in place. My wife felt that whenever we needed traction the lever wanted move - not sure how much weight to put on that though (dont tell her :-)

Any ideas what could be causing this?

Puma 130

There is lots of info on AULRO on this...
Generally the basics are... treat it more like an old tractor, so holding hi/lo lever while moving slightly forward to engage dis-engage will allow gears to engage correctly.
Unlike (dare I say) a modern 4x4 a Defender does not have any shift solenoids that do the manual shifting of gears for you.

[harro]

The diff lock linkage on the lt230 has 'plastic' bushes at the pivot point. If these are worn or missing as mine were when I had another t/case fitted the play will affect the selection.
In my case this caused partial engagement which would eventually jump out altogether.

Part# FRC4499

An absolute pita to fit insitu but certainly fixed the problem.

Nuts 13 & 12 in the diagram are used to adjust the rod length. Lengthening the rod can also help.

Also check the acoustic foam/rubber is not pushing the lever back out of position.

Paul.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/59.jpg

[DazzaTD5]

Defender TDCi (puma) doesnt use the same linkage as older defenders...

[landoman]

Had a bit of a play with the diff lock this avo ......no trouble getting it in
slips in easily and the light comes on
The problem is and always has been getting it to stay in ....the slightest brush of the lever and the light goes off ( presumably so does the diff lock disengage ) . Surely it is designed to stay in place over bumpy terrain ?
i might take off the gaiter and see if there’s is room to adjust the mechanism if it looks anything like that diagram

[workingonit]

Had a bit of a play with the diff lock this avo ......no trouble getting it in
slips in easily and the light comes on
The problem is and always has been getting it to stay in ....the slightest brush of the lever and the light goes off ( presumably so does the diff lock disengage ) . Surely it is designed to stay in place over bumpy terrain ?
i might take off the gaiter and see if there’s is room to adjust the mechanism if it looks anything like that diagram

Sometimes the ball detent system can be at fault - it is really what 'holds' position.

[landoman]

Sometimes the ball detent system can be at fault - it is really what 'holds' position.


Suspect that is my problem ......is there a fix or a mod for this .....landriver have had a few goes to fix ....but still a problem

[jon3950]

Mine was doing it from new and despite several attempts at fixing it never worked.

On my last service I finally had it resolved. I had a new housing assembly installed under warranty. This is a known fault and there is now a service action SSM72873 out on it.

Cheers,
Jon

[landoman]

Mine was doing it from new and despite several attempts at fixing it never worked.

On my last service I finally had it resolved. I had a new housing assembly installed under warranty. This is a known fault and there is now a service action SSM72873 out on it.

Cheers,
Jon

Thanks for that ....do you know what date this service action came out

[jon3950]

No, but mine was done in November last year.

Cheers,
Jon

[workingonit]

Suspect that is my problem ......is there a fix or a mod for this .....landriver have had a few goes to fix ....but still a problem



Suspect that is my problem ......is there a fix or a mod for this .....landriver have had a few goes to fix ....but still a problem

I'm assuming not much change in the way transfer cases are engineered between models, particularly detent systems, unless you have a fangled solenoid to do the holding instead. The degree of difficulty depends on a number of factors, and I'd hate to send you on a wild goose chase if it's something else. The only time I've had trouble with lever linkages is where I've got something back to front on reassembly. Four transfer cases to date.

There are two detent balls in play. One regulates diff lock on/off, while the other regulates hi-neutral-low range selection.

I'm not an engineer so there may well be some reason why LRover do what they do.

You (well me at least) would expect a detent system to consist of a hole of uniform diameter bored through the casing, having enough clearance to allow for a ball bearing and spring, capped at one end by a grub screw and the other end by a grooved rack. If the rack were removed then you would expect the ball and spring to fall into the casing.

Don't have the measurements on hand but from memory the hi-neutral-low uses a 3/8th inch ball bearing running between three 3/8th grooves in the rack - a well matched fit. When rebuilding, the natural inclination is to fit the rack, then drop the ball and spring down the hole, and lock down with the grub screw to give a spring pressure you are happy with as judged by the hand effort required at the lever and surety of engagement.

Problem I found was that the hole was hour glassed to some extent and did not allow the ball to fully pass. The ball stuck out of the bottom of the hole just enough to catch the shoulder of a groove on the rack, giving the sense of locked engagement - however, the slightest tap on the lever results in disengagement. No amount of winding in the grub screw made any difference. In fact on disassembly the ball was jammed in the waste of the hole and had to be forced free.

I did not re-drill the hole, leaving it as it came from the factory. Instead I put the ball in place through the main cavity of the casing, below the waste in the hole, then inserted the rack - the ball now trapped in place by the rack and the waste. The spring went in through the top, enough clearance at the waste for the spring to fit through. Adjusted the grub screw pressure and all fine.

I do wonder if the waste is intentional - if your grub walks out of the hole then you only risk losing the spring - the ball remains trapped but gives maybe some feeling of 'location', but you will have to hold by hand!?

From memory the diff lock dentent shaft has two 1/4 inch grooves. You might expect a 1/4 inch ball bearing to match. Instead, in several boxes, I've found 3/8th ball bearings, same as used in the hi-neutral-low system. Because 3/8th is oversized the ball bearing sits on the shoulders of the groove, rather than in the groove. Not sure this is intentional and considered effective for purpose, or an assembly line mistake. I replace the 3/8th with a 1/4 inch.

The simplest thing for you would be check linkages first; then the grubs and spring are in place then wind them in and out until you happy with pressure required at the levers and surety of lock. If you're not getting any change in feel at the lever, and particularly if some other owner has tinkered before you, then it might be as easy as replacing a missing spring or ball. Much more work required if mismatched ball and rack groove, or ball jammed in waste.

[rgty_kmj]

Mine was doing it from new and despite several attempts at fixing it never worked.

On my last service I finally had it resolved. I had a new housing assembly installed under warranty. This is a known fault and there is now a service action SSM72873 out on it.

Cheers,
Jon

Hi,

I've just had my 2012 defender in at the land rover dealer last week where they installed the parts for service action SSM72873 and it has made very little difference to the diff lock lever.

Before the installation of SSM72873 my diff lock lever was pretty much "spring loaded" to the middle between diff lock and no diff lock. This was the same whether in High or Low. It had never really been right since new.

Since the installation of SSM72873 the lever will stay left (diff lock) or right (no diff lock) for a max of about 30 seconds then flops back into the centre.

I do have an ashcroft centre diff installed but I don't think this should make any difference?

Who else has had service action SSM72873 installed and what are your results?

Hope to take the defender back into the land rover dealer this week.

Thanks

Kerry

[Baytown]

After finding yesterday that my Transfer Case selector lever is able to freely rotate through the selection range with no effect on the vehicles drive or illumination of the 4X4 dash light, I’m reviving this thread as it seems the best that I can find on the site for Pumas.

My 2012 Puma has an auto transmission fitted with the LS3 6.2, and luckily is still in high range drive.

Does anyone have any other suggestions on this failure before I go delving in?

Thanks in advance and best wishes all.

Ken




I'm assuming not much change in the way transfer cases are engineered between models, particularly detent systems, unless you have a fangled solenoid to do the holding instead. The degree of difficulty depends on a number of factors, and I'd hate to send you on a wild goose chase if it's something else. The only time I've had trouble with lever linkages is where I've got something back to front on reassembly. Four transfer cases to date.

There are two detent balls in play. One regulates diff lock on/off, while the other regulates hi-neutral-low range selection.

I'm not an engineer so there may well be some reason why LRover do what they do.

You (well me at least) would expect a detent system to consist of a hole of uniform diameter bored through the casing, having enough clearance to allow for a ball bearing and spring, capped at one end by a grub screw and the other end by a grooved rack. If the rack were removed then you would expect the ball and spring to fall into the casing.

Don't have the measurements on hand but from memory the hi-neutral-low uses a 3/8th inch ball bearing running between three 3/8th grooves in the rack - a well matched fit. When rebuilding, the natural inclination is to fit the rack, then drop the ball and spring down the hole, and lock down with the grub screw to give a spring pressure you are happy with as judged by the hand effort required at the lever and surety of engagement.

Problem I found was that the hole was hour glassed to some extent and did not allow the ball to fully pass. The ball stuck out of the bottom of the hole just enough to catch the shoulder of a groove on the rack, giving the sense of locked engagement - however, the slightest tap on the lever results in disengagement. No amount of winding in the grub screw made any difference. In fact on disassembly the ball was jammed in the waste of the hole and had to be forced free.

I did not re-drill the hole, leaving it as it came from the factory. Instead I put the ball in place through the main cavity of the casing, below the waste in the hole, then inserted the rack - the ball now trapped in place by the rack and the waste. The spring went in through the top, enough clearance at the waste for the spring to fit through. Adjusted the grub screw pressure and all fine.

I do wonder if the waste is intentional - if your grub walks out of the hole then you only risk losing the spring - the ball remains trapped but gives maybe some feeling of 'location', but you will have to hold by hand!?

From memory the diff lock dentent shaft has two 1/4 inch grooves. You might expect a 1/4 inch ball bearing to match. Instead, in several boxes, I've found 3/8th ball bearings, same as used in the hi-neutral-low system. Because 3/8th is oversized the ball bearing sits on the shoulders of the groove, rather than in the groove. Not sure this is intentional and considered effective for purpose, or an assembly line mistake. I replace the 3/8th with a 1/4 inch.

The simplest thing for you would be check linkages first; then the grubs and spring are in place then wind them in and out until you happy with pressure required at the levers and surety of lock. If you're not getting any change in feel at the lever, and particularly if some other owner has tinkered before you, then it might be as easy as replacing a missing spring or ball. Much more work required if mismatched ball and rack groove, or ball jammed in waste.

[workingonit]

After finding yesterday that my Transfer Case selector lever is able to freely rotate through the selection range with no effect on the vehicles drive or illumination of the 4X4 dash light,Ken

My experience is with Discovery 1 transfer boxes that use old style linkage actions- engaging diff lock throws a light up on the dash, a sideways 'H' - there is no light for when you engage High-Neutral-Low. I'm not familiar with the Puma whether it has lights for both diff lock and High-Low ratio changes and whether changes are old style linkages or solenoids.

My rather long email had to do with the detent system, the system of grub screw, spring and ball bearing that holds your selected High-Neutral-Low ratio or diff lock selection in place without you having to manual hold it in place by hand.

If you haven't already, and you think it's safe to do so, move your lever into low range and hold the lever manually by hand in place, drive a short distance to see if you are actually in low range.

If you do not find yourself in low range after holding the selection lever in place by hand then you may have a broken external linkage (easy fix) or a broken (highly unlikely, check for metal in your oil) or badly worn (more likely on high mileage vehicles) selector fork inside the box.

If you do find you are in low range then linkages are fine and the detent is more than likely to be the problem.

In regard to the diff lock. You may not get a light on the dash because the bulb is blow, or the simple switching mechanism on the box is broken or its wires are loose. In some ways the light is not too important as long as you remember to move the lever to the unlocked position when back on hard surfaces. Even though you have unlocked the centre diff a sticky switch on the box sometimes leaves the light 'on' when it should be 'off' - a short drive with vibrations usually unsticks the switch and the light goes out.

[Baytown]

Thanks for the great reply, and yes, I’m aware of the driving off before the transfer box and or dash light engages.
Thats not the case here, the transfer selector is disconnected from the box and freely moving. Hopefully it’s just a linkage/bolt failure issue. I’ll get onto this in the next day or so and get back with what I’ve found.

Thanks again!👍

[MLD]

Ken you have the D2 twin cable set up. the feel on the knob will be different to your old Puma set up because of the cables (not rods). that said, you have been with the D2 set up for long enough to know its feel. if its freely moving and not offering engagement feedback at the expected engagement point in the range, i'd say the cables are at fault. could be a few things. Cables are disconnected from the shifter under your console. The cable sheath has come away from the bracket so the cable and sheath move as one. Or the connections at the transfer case end. If its both high/low & CDL, i'd take a punt that its the 2 cables at the shifter. that assumes there is no resistance to movement in and out of the selections. if it remains in High and does not pop out, unlikely you have a problem with the detent. I'd be surprised if the selector fork is shot, your transfer hasn't seen a long hard life.

touch on workingonit's post, the puma box is mechanically identical in its operation to every LT230 before it. Main differences are: speedo pickup is electronic not mechanical cable; different input gear profile. Sergio pointed out that there is a change over in case strength with extra ribbing on later cases but i think that change over was way before the Puma ie came in with the 300 tdi.

[Baytown]

Thanks MLD, you’re right Re the cable selectors on my modified Defender Puma;

I lay under the vehicle and got my lady to run the selector through its ranges. There is no movement from high to low range (fore-aft) in the cables at the transfer box that I could tell, and only left to right selector movement (and back) at the cable and into the transfer box .

I could only ID one cable from under the vehicle.

Certainly, driving off and allowing the transfer box to engage and lamp to illuminate on the dash doesn’t work, so theses no electrical signal or engagement of the transfer box. There is no neutral space to engage, SO, looks like at trip down to Justin.

Bugger!🥺
181636181637


3168262 (tel:3168262)[/URL]]Ken you have the D2 twin cable set up. the feel on the knob will be different to your old Puma set up because of the cables (not rods). that said, you have been with the D2 set up for long enough to know its feel. if its freely moving and not offering engagement feedback at the expected engagement point in the range, i'd say the cables are at fault. could be a few things. Cables are disconnected from the shifter under your console. The cable sheath has come away from the bracket so the cable and sheath move as one. Or the connections at the transfer case end. If its both high/low & CDL, i'd take a punt that its the 2 cables at the shifter. that assumes there is no resistance to movement in and out of the selections. if it remains in High and does not pop out, unlikely you have a problem with the detent. I'd be surprised if the selector fork is shot, your transfer hasn't seen a long hard life.

touch on workingonit's post, the puma box is mechanically identical in its operation to every LT230 before it. Main differences are: speedo pickup is electronic not mechanical cable; different input gear profile. Sergio pointed out that there is a change over in case strength with extra ribbing on later cases but i think that change over was way before the Puma ie came in with the 300 tdi.

[MLD]

Ken, i'm a little confused. It's hard to tell from pic which way the camera is pointing and what is being photographed. It appears to be the CDL cable by its location. If i understand your description correct, your CDL cable is moving the lever suggesting engagement but your light is not coming on. The light will not come on unless the locking dog is engaged in the box.

Just so we are all singing from the same page, the first pic is a D2 LT230 with CDL. The bracket adjacent to the front output is the CDL and the bracket on the top and orientated to the rear is the High/Low. Pic 2 shows the H/L bracket and cable arrangement. i assume yours is the same set up. Pic 3 is the Ashcroft D2 CDL shifter. Again i assume LRA used that version and not a D2 shifter with CDL. The difference is the lever arm to the shifter set up but both work in the same way.

My money is on the cable connection at the shifter under your console. Best of luck with it. Pulling apart your console will be fun. (ps: i'm just about to buy the LRA console for my LS conversion so this is all relevant to me ATM).