Td5 alternator

[Shenanigans Ride]

Hi, my ignition light just came on and as my battery is only 6 months old I assume that the alternator has packed up. Anyone know a good place in Brisbane to get it rebuilt, at a reasonable price, (or could there be any other reason for the light to suddenly come on). Ta

[strangy]

Most likely a brush pack and a cheap easy fix. Maybe nothing but some time if you do it yourself.

How many kms?

cheers

[Shenanigans Ride]

Hi Strangy, cars done 194000Km on origonal alternator, so can't really complain

[Shenanigans Ride]

reading the workshop manual it states that the Td5 has a Nippon Denso 120A alternator. never heard of this make, are parts commonly available for these?

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

reading the workshop manual it states that the Td5 has a Nippon Denso 120A alternator. never heard of this make, are parts commonly available for these?
Nippon Denso been around for years, high quality Japanese parts maker, do a lot of O.E.M for Toyota etc

[John W]

reading the workshop manual it states that the Td5 has a Nippon Denso 120A alternator. never heard of this make, are parts commonly available for these?

My one did the same thing only at 60 000k and when at Timber Creek. The auto electrical at Kununurra did the job, was the electronic bits in it but while it was out did a standard rebuild. The biggest issue was getting it out and back in the Td5, took a lot of labour. Told me that it was the same model in the patrols and landcrusers so he had all the parts.

[mturri]

The bits of information I've collected over the years:

Td5 alternator part numbers:

Nippon Denso 100213-2391 (OEM)
Nippon Denso 100213-2530 (OEM)
Bosch 0.986.046.541
Hella 8EL 738 079-001
Lucas Electrical LRB00369
Chrysler 38522267F
Delco Remy DRA3856


Regulator
Nippon Denso 126000-2500
Common to some Caterpillar alternators, was in one occasion able to source through local Cat distributor

Lip Seal (alternator to vacuum pump)
Measures 17 mm x 30(37) mm x 8 mm
Nippon Denso 081103-0080
Common to a few Toyota alternators, can use Toyota p/n 29341-64130

Bearings
Double sealed (2RS) mid temp
15 mm x 46 mm x 14 mm (bore x OD x Width)
e.g. Koyo 949100-3360

Brush Box & Brushes
No p/n but have sourced from eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-SERIES-2-2-5-DIESEL-TD5-ALTERNATOR-REGULATOR-BRUSHBOX-/290631807647 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-SERIES-2-2-5-DIESEL-TD5-ALTERNATOR-REGULATOR-BRUSHBOX-/290631807647)


Rgds
Matt

[crt560]

Interesting: I had my TD5 alternator 304k km out a few weeks ago and discovered worn out brushes and copper missing from part of the slip ring. Anyone know where the slip rings can be sourced sourced from ? Looked at a new Denso unit but was told $950+gst from one joker. Can get a brand new one from uk for $300 + p&p.

[Stuck]

Interesting: I had my TD5 alternator 304k km out a few weeks ago and discovered worn out brushes and copper missing from part of the slip ring. Anyone know where the slip rings can be sourced sourced from ? Looked at a new Denso unit but was told $950+gst from one joker. Can get a brand new one from uk for $300 + p&p.

I've been through the same dilemma. Apparently you can get everything to rebuild the ND unit bar the slip ring. I ended up buying a new Britpart alternator from Paddocks in the UK, about A$200 to buy it (less vac. pump) and about A$100 freight. I'm kicking myself now, I should have got a new lower idler pulley and a few other bits and pieces that are pricey here but cheap enough over there shipped at the same time. Mine threw the towel in at about 208,000km BTW and their not too bad of a job to remove and refit but you'll need a #50 Torx bit for the main pivot bolt. http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2/105671-alternator-removal.html?highlight=td5+alternator

Cheers,
Anthony.

[discoteck]

I`ve just done mine at 140k, pulled it out myself relatively easy, made my own viscous fan removal tool out of flat bar.

Dropped the alt of at the auto lekky and got them to replace bushes and regulator. The advantage of this is they can run it up and check its working before you put it back in.

Cost all up was about $100 and a couple of hours work.

[haydent]

i got the following parts through an ultra tune
unfortunately it didnt fix my problem which was too high voltage >17v

brush box: $15
regulator: $145

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=53895&stc=1&d=1354266389


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=53896&stc=1&d=1354266423


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=53898&stc=1&d=1354266597

[dado.mago]

Hi mturri,

sorry to bother you, but this is driving me crazy!!! :censored:
I removed my alternator from a defender td5 ('2000), and I realised that the bearings have to be replaced.
I measured with the caliber the internal bearings (the one on the vacuum pump is in very good condition), and I measured:

Koyo 945 (grey; toward the vacuum pump) OD=40mm, ID=17mm, thk=12mm
Koyo 279 (brown; adjacent to the brushes) OD=35mm, I<d=15mm, thk=12mm

I checked on the koyo website but it appears that there is no part corresponding to the numbers on the bearings I removed from the alternator.
Moreover, on the koyo website I cannot find any bearings that fit mine!

I browsed the entire planet! I even tried the planets close to this f....g globe! :mad: but no luck.
I hope that you had more luck than I have and maybe you could give me any help where to find these bloody bearings!

Thanks a lot!
David



The bits of information I've collected over the years:

Td5 alternator part numbers:

Nippon Denso 100213-2391 (OEM)
Nippon Denso 100213-2530 (OEM)
Bosch 0.986.046.541
Hella 8EL 738 079-001
Lucas Electrical LRB00369
Chrysler 38522267F
Delco Remy DRA3856


Regulator
Nippon Denso 126000-2500
Common to some Caterpillar alternators, was in one occasion able to source through local Cat distributor

Lip Seal (alternator to vacuum pump)
Measures 17 mm x 30(37) mm x 8 mm
Nippon Denso 081103-0080
Common to a few Toyota alternators, can use Toyota p/n 29341-64130

Bearings
Double sealed (2RS) mid temp
15 mm x 46 mm x 14 mm (bore x OD x Width)
e.g. Koyo 949100-3360

Brush Box & Brushes
No p/n but have sourced from eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-SERIES-2-2-5-DIESEL-TD5-ALTERNATOR-REGULATOR-BRUSHBOX-/290631807647 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DEFENDER-DISCOVERY-SERIES-2-2-5-DIESEL-TD5-ALTERNATOR-REGULATOR-BRUSHBOX-/290631807647)


Rgds
Matt

[alien]

Hi mturri,

sorry to bother you, but this is driving me crazy!!! :censored:
I removed my alternator from a defender td5 ('2000), and I realised that the bearings have to be replaced.
I measured with the caliber the internal bearings (the one on the vacuum pump is in very good condition), and I measured:

Koyo 945 (grey; toward the vacuum pump) OD=40mm, ID=17mm, thk=12mm
Koyo 279 (brown; adjacent to the brushes) OD=35mm, I<d=15mm, thk=12mm

I checked on the koyo website but it appears that there is no part corresponding to the numbers on the bearings I removed from the alternator.
Moreover, on the koyo website I cannot find any bearings that fit mine!

I browsed the entire planet! I even tried the planets close to this f....g globe! :mad: but no luck.
I hope that you had more luck than I have and maybe you could give me any help where to find these bloody bearings!

Thanks a lot!
David
Any good bearing shop should be able to cross reference the Koyo number to another brand.
Take them with you if you can too.
Plan B is call into a auto-electrician with the bearing, they have some in stock.

[dado.mago]

Hi Kylie,

thank, I have alreday called Koyo, and they told me to call Bearingwholesales, they have their bearings. I went today to the Sunshine store and got the right bearings.
Now the problem is the lid seal, it is bloody hard to find. Tomorrow I will stop by at the Toyota dealer in Elizabeth street near the Vic Market to ask for the part.
The other option is to buy it online from US, but it will take 20 days, and the price is 15$, but 54$ for the shipping!!!!:eek:
Let's see.

[dado.mago]

Done!
Now it is working fine....like new!
check it out....https://www.dropbox.com/s/q3ihgqk75os46o5/Alternator%20tutorial.pdf

:D

[NWTASD2]

Very comprihensive and well done tutorial I'm sure many discovery owners will use this.

[simonmelb]

Hi,

Resurrecting this thread - I'm looking to improve the output voltage of my alternator (it sits at about 13.8 - 14v when warmed up). The alternator is original and I've given it a good clean an installed new brushes but the regulator is original.

Would this one do the job? 14.7V apparently.

IN249 Voltage Regulator for Nippondenso ( Denso ) type Alternators - 12 Volt, 14.7 Volt Set Point (http://store.alternatorparts.com/in249-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx)

PS: Reason is my drive to work is only 20 mins and the 2 batteries don't often get a big charge so would like a higher voltage from the alternator.

[Sneaky]

I found a source for the slip rings from a place called Baxters - the part number is NSR1.
$15 each - very easy to replace - just be careful removing the old epoxy from the solder joints.

Slip Ring Nippondenso 8.8 X 14.5mm (http://www.baxters.com.au/slip-ring-nippondenso-8-8-x-14-5mm.html)

Hope this helps.

[Fluids]

Hi,

Resurrecting this thread - I'm looking to improve the output voltage of my alternator (it sits at about 13.8 - 14v when warmed up). The alternator is original and I've given it a good clean an installed new brushes but the regulator is original.

Would this one do the job? 14.7V apparently.

IN249 Voltage Regulator for Nippondenso ( Denso ) type Alternators - 12 Volt, 14.7 Volt Set Point (http://store.alternatorparts.com/in249-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx)

PS: Reason is my drive to work is only 20 mins and the 2 batteries don't often get a big charge so would like a higher voltage from the alternator.




Have any luck with this Simon ??

Listing says "Discovery 2.5L 1998-ON"

Would be good for charging the kamper batteries (which really need a 14.7v absorption charge).
My new alternator (Denso 14v) can start off at 14.6-14.8v baut after a while drops back to around 14.1v-14.2v and sometime later can drop to 13.8v-14.0v ....

... what's the likleyhood that this 14.7v setpoint would start off cold at over 15v !! ?? .... and progressively drop back to 14.7v ... could be a problem ... maybe a 14.4v setpoint would be better.

Did you pursue it any further ??

[simonmelb]

Hi Kev,

Not yet - got tied up selling an buying a house so will have to wait for a while as the new house is un-rennovated and the other half wants a new kitchen! - but I'll definitely pursue it before out next big lap in 18 Months, and probably do the job when I install a new engine harness Ive got stashed away too.

If you end up ordering one Kev, let me know and happy to go halves in shipping costs if you like.

Cheers
Simon

[Fluids]

Hi Kev,

Not yet - got tied up selling an buying a house so will have to wait for a while as the new house is un-rennovated and the other half wants a new kitchen! - but I'll definitely pursue it before out next big lap in 18 Months, and probably do the job when I install a new engine harness Ive got stashed away too.

If you end up ordering one Kev, let me know and happy to go halves in shipping costs if you like.

Cheers
Simon

Thanks Simon. I'll let you know if I proceed ... need to speak with an auto elec' and do a bit more research ... won't happen until after our next trip in may/june though.

Kitchen ... Have Fun !! [bigsmile] SHE decided we (she) wanted a new kitchen because "I" (read WE) got a new kamper .... go figure !! Being we are both rather time poor these days, we gutted the old kitchen our selves (with the assistance of the retired builder father-in-law) and left the kitchen co' a blank slate .... and lived without a functioning kitchen for around 7-8 weeks, getting it all in and finished about 10 days before Christmas ... which ended up requiring new floating flooring throughout the main part of the house as well as the kitchen (which we hadn't budgeted for) .... All up didn't get much change out of 30k !!

Good luck with it !!

Love my wife ! [thumbsupbig]

[bigwhistle]

[simonmelb]

Sounds good. I fear we may and up doing the same as the wife is talking about reconfiguring most of the rooms and knocking walls out. Could be expensive as the whole house is double brick including just about all the internal walls.[tonguewink]

How much damage can we possibly do to the house in 18 Months when we'll have to rent it out to fund our big lap?![bighmmm] Well at least I decide what to do to the shed!

[Sneaky]

Hi,Resurrecting this thread - I'm looking to improve the output voltage of my alternator (it sits at about 13.8 - 14v when warmed up). The alternator is original and I've given it a good clean an installed new brushes but the regulator is original.Would this one do the job? 14.7V apparently.IN249 Voltage Regulator for Nippondenso ( Denso ) type Alternators - 12 Volt, 14.7 Volt Set Point (http://store.alternatorparts.com/in249-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx)PS: Reason is my drive to work is only 20 mins and the 2 batteries don't often get a big charge so would like a higher voltage from the alternator.On the D2 there is a short wire that goes from the 3 pin plug that plugs in the back of the alternator to the main output bolt on the alternator. This wire is the regulation sense wire that the regulator uses to charge the battery at 14.7 volts. If you extend that wire and connect it to positive battery terminal it will make the regulator sense the actual battery voltage , instead of the battery voltage minus the voltage drops in the harness - the more load the more it drops. Remember that the glow plugs on these engines can run for up to 30 minutes depending on ambient temperature , engine load etc...So a cold start with heaters , glow plugs , demisters and heated windscreens and seats on some models can really cause a huge drop in voltage across the harness.Give it a try - all it costs is a small length of wire and some time. If you are careful it can be done without removing anything except for the battery terminal and the main charge wire's retaining nut.

[Fluids]

On the D2 there is a short wire that goes from the 3 pin plug that plugs in the back of the alternator to the main output bolt on the alternator. This wire is the regulation sense wire that the regulator uses to charge the battery at 14.7 volts. If you extend that wire and connect it to positive battery terminal it will make the regulator sense the actual battery voltage , instead of the battery voltage minus the voltage drops in the harness - the more load the more it drops. .


Thanks Sneaky. Welcome to the forum.

So that wire could in theory, be extended and have a fuse/diode style dohicky inserted in it, and then return it to it's usual position .... like the Toyota fuse wire for the alternator trick ... replace fuse with a fuse/diode to drop the "sense" voltage, forcing (on the Toyotas I believe) about another 0.3-0.5v increase .... just what we are looking for ..... ?????

Tell me more .... is it that simple ? Just drop the voltage on that sense wire ... ??

[Sneaky]

Thanks Sneaky. Welcome to the forum.

So that wire could in theory, be extended and have a fuse/diode style dohicky inserted in it, and then return it to it's usual position .... like the Toyota fuse wire for the alternator trick ... replace fuse with a fuse/diode to drop the "sense" voltage, forcing (on the Toyotas I believe) about another 0.3-0.5v increase .... just what we are looking for ..... ?????

Tell me more .... is it that simple ? Just drop the voltage on that sense wire ... ??

Yes that is correct - the sense wire should be able to be fooled like that. Just remember that the standard regulator is set to 14.7 volts and is temperature compensated. That is the reason why the voltage drops as the car runs longer. When you do a cold start the alternator is cold and the output at 14.7 - as the regulator warms up the max output voltage will drop to 14.1 volts or so. In an ideal world the temperature sensor in the regulator would be on a cable and connected to the battery to get a "proper" measurement of the battery temperature. But I guess for reliability reasons - and lots of other reasons they have it internal to the regulator.


Another thing to remember is that if you disconnect the sense wire and start the car - it will sense an open circuit and switch back to regulating the voltage at the main output terminal - but it will light the alternator light on the dash to let you know there is a problem even though it is charging.

[Fluids]

You reading this Simon ?

:)

[simonmelb]

Yes - now u understand what's happening [biggrin].

ill do some tests I think ! But will have to wait till we move house and I finally have my own garage :-))

[blinky64]

Hi all,
Does anyone know where you can source a diode pack for the TD5 D2a alternator. Denso 100213-2530.
A few months over 2 years old and it has died. One year warranty...not happy !

Local repairers don't carry many parts for these, notably the diode pack.

Cheers, Bill

[donh54]

Hi all,
Does anyone know where you can source a diode pack for the TD5 D2a alternator. Denso 100213-2530.
A few months over 2 years old and it has died. One year warranty...not happy !

Local repairers don't carry many parts for these, notably the diode pack.

Cheers, Bill

Did you try Denso, they don't list anything pre-2006 on the website but you'd like to think they'd have some idea. Phone is 03 8761 1449

[twr7cx]

Does anyone know where you can source a diode pack for the TD5 D2a alternator. Denso 100213-2530.
A few months over 2 years old and it has died. One year warranty...not happy !

Local repairers don't carry many parts for these, notably the diode pack.

Out of interest, how did you confirm it was the diode pack that had failed?

I'm surprised you haven't been able to source locally a replacement as it uses a lot of the same Denso components as many Toyota OEM alternators such as on the Land Cruiser UZJ100R V8. Although they're interchangeable there is some extra work with compatibility. Check out Td5 alternator (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-2-a/143545-td5-alternator-4.html) for a discussion regarding the regulator differences on two or three wire connectors.

By diode pack, I think you are referring to what is often called the rectifier (as this has diodes in it), ie:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Try these alternative cross reference part numbers for this:

04T109


RFX2000 Ashdown Ingram
137874 CARGO
500273 Civic/DA Parts
CQ1080652 CQ
021580-3990 DENSO
021580-4040 DENSO
021580-4100 DENSO
021580-4110 DENSO
021580-4430 DENSO
021580-4610 DENSO
021580-4690 DENSO
021580-5040 DENSO
RN-08 MOBILETRON
RN-11 MOBILETRON
1103-013RS RS
1103-014RS RS
INR732 TRANSPO
INR733 TRANSPO
REC-614 UNIPOINT
31-8213 WAI
31-8214 WAI
RTF49893 WOODAUTO

​
If all else failed, it can be easily sourced through eBay. Search for "TD5 rectifier" will give you results shipped from the UK. Search for "Denso rectifier" and scroll through to find the right one (or "Cruiser Denso rectifier") will give you Australian options such as Rectifier for DENSO 113MM LEXUS V8 TOYOTA LAND CRUISER Soarer 100A Alternator | eBay (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rectifier-for-DENSO-113MM-LEXUS-V8-TOYOTA-LAND-CRUISER-Soarer-100A-Alternator/281303215947?epid=894852670&hash=item417efa6f4b:g:7MUAAOxySoJTQAE1)

[twr7cx]

On the D2 there is a short wire that goes from the 3 pin plug that plugs in the back of the alternator to the main output bolt on the alternator.

When I recently replaced the alternator on my September 2002 build (2003MY) D2a, I could not see any such sense wire from the alternators multiple at the back to the output stud on the alternator. I wonder if this was therefore changed for the later D2a models then? Or if a previous owner has already modified mine (but no signs of modification on the loom that was there).

Looking at the wiring diagram from Rave for the 2000 D2 (page 15.1 in https://discoii.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/d2_electricalcircuitdiagrams_2000.pdf ) and 2003MY (page 50 in https://discoii.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/d2_electricalcircuitdiagrams_2003my.pdf ) I cannot see any indication of the sense wire going from the wiring looms multi-plug to the output pole of the alternator being show. The wiring diagrams show only two of the three wires from the multi-plug going to their respective locations away from the alternator. Looks like:

Brown/Yellow is the Warning Lamp - Ignition No Charge for the instrument pack.
White goes to Fuse 24 in the Cabin Fuse Box and then onto the Ignition Switch (key).

The third wire shown is the Brown that goes to the 150amp Fusable Link in the Fuse Box - Engine Compartment and then onto the battery. This would be the main output of the alternator.

The multi-plug is connector C0226 and the sense wire must be identified as C0226-3. The main output is C0034 which is presumably goes to.

Some interesting discussion that I found while looking for details on the C0226 connector (don't have Rave on my work laptop) at Discovery 2: Td5 Alternator plug wiring question. (http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/280662-Td5-Alternator-plug-wiring-question) They're suggesting that the genuine/original/OEM alternators only have two wires and it's only aftermarket units that require the third.

Of note is that the Connector Details for C0226 only shows two wires being used of the three wire capable connector:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2018/04/333.jpg
JohnnoK seems to provide a good summary at Discovery 2: Why is my Td5 eating fanbelts and I need a regulator pack - Page 2 (http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/279669-Why-is-my-Td5-eating-fanbelts-and-I-need-a-regulator-pack?p=3642580#post3642580) :


The regulator I had is for a Land Cruiser (spit) and is physically identical to the LR one, except the Cruiser one, if fitted to the Td5 leaves the charge idiot light on all the time because it needs the S terminal in the plug to be connected to the battery positive terminal. The LR only uses 2 of the 3 terminals...
This requires a connector modification to the Td5 plug with a pigtail lead to the + terminal lug because the LR is only 2 wires and not 3, a task that will be challenging due to the location of the plug and will cause hassles down the line if a genuine part is fitted later.

The old DENSO part number is 126000-2500 which is no longer produced, but I finally managed to track down the replacement part number thanks to Noel at Roverland and it is IN249 (http://store.alternatorparts.com/in249-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx), so those of you who gather and collect trivial info, feel free to file that number in your systems....https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/468.jpg

Which means that the IN249 that Simon previously mentioned that he was looking to swap to is actually the standard replacement unit and therefore would have been unlikely to improve anything.


Resurrecting this thread - I'm looking to improve the output voltage of my alternator (it sits at about 13.8 - 14v when warmed up). The alternator is original and I've given it a good clean an installed new brushes but the regulator is original.
Would this one do the job? 14.7V apparently.

IN249 Voltage Regulator for Nippondenso ( Denso ) type Alternators - 12 Volt, 14.7 Volt Set Point (http://store.alternatorparts.com/in249-voltage-regulator-for-denso-alternators.aspx)

PS: Reason is my drive to work is only 20 mins and the 2 batteries don't often get a big charge so would like a higher voltage from the alternator.

Perhaps therefore the only way to get an improvement (higher output) is to swap out to the Toyota Land Cruiser 3 pin set up and add the sense wire to C0226 multi-plug wired back to the battery? Seems like more hassle than I could be bothered with...