Buying a P38

[Craig_Keira]

Looking out for our first RR. Here's what I know:
1. You don't need deep pockets if you have a clue.
2. Make sure maintenance is done. Airbags, EAS compressor and valve block, headlining, heater o-rings should all have been done by now.
3. The car is complex and may have hidden faults. Use a scanner to see if there are any faults in the computer.
4. Look for one owned by someone who is passionate about the car not someone who views it as transport and nothing more. I want a 'sorely missed member of the family'!

So.. who want's to help me out with a loan of a scanner when I go and look at a car? Happy to pick it up and drop it off. I don't want to buy one just yet in case I don't end up with a P38 (and get a D2 or something).

Any other tips and tricks? YTT05 is banned from responding because I had a look at his HSE which makes him responsible for this :)

[wayneg]

Not sure what you are hoping to find with a scanner. If there is a fault with the car you should spot it with a thorough check. Most faults will be shown on the Dash read out at start-up (if it starts) Those who have diagnostic will no doubt have them for their specific car as licences are mostly for one vehicle only.
Eas software is free. Problems with EAS is not a deal breaker, just negotiate the worst case $


Loads of info when looking to buy here and other sites. If buying from an enthusiast don`t expect a dealer history. None of my cars ever go near a Repair Garage but they are never the less well serviced and maintained.
Have a very long test drive with any prospect. You have obviously got a list of the most common issues already.

[Hoges]

P38itis is not recognised as an addiction as yet so don't expect a Medicare rebate...though you can get plenty of therapy on this site (from fellow addicts that is...):angel:

EDIT: on a more serious note... look carefully for evidence of coolant leaks around the #1 and #7 cylinder headbolts. If you can get a MY99 (Bosch upgrade = VIN later than XA410482 ), it's worth paying a bit extra: upgraded auto (ZFHP24), 4 pin diffs, upgraded Wabco brake modulator, 150 Amp alternator, supposedly more reliable EFI (Bosch) ...

[Craig_Keira]

Thanks guys. How the freaking hell do tell for all those upgrades?!

[adm333]

Here's a good thing you can do ....

Print out your point number one

"you don't need deep pockets if you have a clue ...."

Use a large font, and some brightly coloured paper, and stick it somewhere prominent, such as on your fridge. Say it out loud every day as you walk past.

After you have had your P38 for 6 - 12 months, report back here and let us know how you're going. There is a great thread here on how to sew extensions into your pockets to make them deeper.

:D

[adm333]

As Hoges said, get the very latest model you can, and depending on where you are looking, get someone here to have a look at it as well. Most would be happy to help !

Dave

[Hoges]

Thanks guys. How the freaking hell do tell for all those upgrades?!

Not sure what you mean...

[redandy3575]

Not much more to add but to say, don't let low prices always rule your decision. i.e a 97 P38 with 115,000km selling at $9,000........ when i saw that advert a few months back the alarm bells went off, the engine was knackered and the seller played dumb!! Well as far as i know, that vehicle ended up bought by a wrecking yard for a fraction of that price after the owner couldn't sell it. Thing is, if you didn't know what to look for, it would have easily burnt the unsuspecting buyer, cause the engine had a cracked head. It ran ok when it was cold, but as soon as it warmed up it ran very ordinarily. My tip: (should you choose to go along with it) is look at at least 5 p38s, then narrow it down to the final 3, then pick the best of the 3. That is in my opinion anyway one of the safest way to iron out a goodie. Sure you may miss a good deal of one that you've seen, but patience is a virtue. And the p38 is still a bit of an un-tapped resource.

[Craig_Keira]

Yes, too good to be true is. I'm going to look at about 5. The thing that stopped me from buying tty05's was that it was the only one I'd seen (someone had to go first!). So I might look at about 5 or so. I'll probably have to go to Sydney and Melbourne (there's one at Albury as well which seems nice and owned by a LR nut).

[Craig_Keira]

What about mileage? I've seen everything from 140k to 400k. Engines rebuilt or replaced in both examples. Are there common issues at certain miles? What are the symptoms of an unhappy auto? First thing to avoid is a major repair on the trip home ;)

[PaulP38a]

Come have a look at my 2 P38's then... I only live 10mins up the road from Trevor.

I also have a scanner or two ;)

I should be home most of the weekend if you want to come around for a coffee and a chat. Get my mobile off Trev or drop me a PM.

Cheers, Paul.

[Mick_Marsh]

I too am looking at P38's.
I'm looking for a replacement for the Millennium Commodore.
I've also been looking at Td5 D2's.
Well, a P38 has just come up for sale just up the road from me. It's sub 140,000 km.
Using it as a daily drive, what are the sort of issues that may come my way? Is an engine rebuild likely in the near future? Will the suspension do a big fart and I find myself flat on my belly?

[DT-P38]

As with any LR, all good and bad things are possible Mick!

Try one on for size and see what you think. I would reckon you could do worse than having a ride in one, but watch out they can get their claws into you! No offense to our Disco brothers, but I reckon the two vehicles are chalk and cheese. Simply put, both have their +'s and -'s but were obviously aimed at completely different markets. As you know, both are very capable and that's the big upside.

If you wanna buy p38, wait for a goodie. Thorough "due diligence" via checking FSH and getting a proper PPI will help with peace of mind. DO NOT look for a bargain P38 unless you are prepared to fix issues from tight or negligent PO's.

Happy to help if you go the P38 way.

Dave & the 'pretty pig'

[Mick_Marsh]

I've been in a P38 many years ago. I was in Whisky Mac's at the Greendale gathering. They are a nice vehicle.
I'm after something that will tow 3t with ease. The Commodore will tow 2.1t legally. In it's earlier life it towed quite a bit more at freeway speeds but don't tell anyone. I've got to say the VR Commodore has been the best car I have ever had and at 400,000km it is still going strong.
I've also been looking at Landcruisers.

The thing about the P38 is they are not expensive. If I get a lemon, I'm not too fussed. Spare parts for the next.

[Craig_Keira]

Paul - pm sent. Very generous of you.

[Hoges]

I too am looking at P38's.
I'm looking for a replacement for the Millennium Commodore.
I've also been looking at Td5 D2's.
Well, a P38 has just come up for sale just up the road from me. It's sub 140,000 km.
Using it as a daily drive, what are the sort of issues that may come my way? Is an engine rebuild likely in the near future? Will the suspension do a big fart and I find myself flat on my belly?

Mick..have a good look art the engine for hints of coolant leaks. That's why it's good if you can take it on a long(er) drive and check to see whether the coolant level drops or not.

Listen for tappet noise. while the 4.6 is a fairly robust engine, they do seem to have a thing about rockers. I replaced mine at 130k. It was a long day's work (along with multiple coffees and beers!) but I took the time to check all sorts of things as well as get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned and checked. Dunno why they (rockers) go, they just do. I don't run it on synthetic oil ever! because it's too slippery and doesn't let the lifters and push trods rotate as they are supposed to (roller rockers...different story).

We seem to forget that if an engine has a life expectancy of say 200k between major overhauls based on stop/start driving, and we are buying one at say 170k, then it's life expectancy is 80% gone already...same with transmission.

Major stuff apart from the rockers has been the viscous couping unit in the t/f case. That also was a day's work. Next time I could prob. do it in 3 hrs...learning curve and all that.

Look for water leaks in the footwell and the spare tyre wheel well. Both can be fairly easily fixed (see these pages).

Don't fall into the trap of HD shocks..the standard Boges are far better with the air suspension. Air suspension sounds cumfy. It's not! It's a linear response and there's no way to get the magic carpet associated with the RR Classic which has, I suspect. loooong travel non-linear spring rates. Cooper (H/T) tyres don't help. They are hard and transmit even the slightest bump.

Frankly at the present time (mine has only 145k km in 13 yrs) I wouldnt try and pull 3t ... the torque band doesn't get going until you reach about 2500-2700 rpm ...which is above 100kmh in top gear.

All that said, it's great on a trip...last time i went to Sydney with 4 adults and luggage we averaged 85kmh for the whole trip down at around 12L/100km. got as low as 10.5-11 for some (freeway) parts...

Good luck


EDIT: The air suspension can be a PITA but it's worth it. Once you have it sorted...great

[33chinacars]

All I can add is wit for the right onr for you and you wont look back . Even if turns out not so good as long as your handy with with spanners & dont mind having a go yourself at fixing things alls good. As was said to me when I was looking . If you beleived all the horror stories you would never buy one , but once you have owned one you will hate to drive anything else. Yep everything else is just second rate after owning a P38. ( That is till you move up to a L322 . Sorry guys I'm a deserter )

Gary

[Mick_Marsh]

Mick..have a good look art the engine for hints of coolant leaks. That's why it's good if you can take it on a long(er) drive and check to see whether the coolant level drops or not.

Listen for tappet noise. while the 4.6 is a fairly robust engine, they do seem to have a thing about rockers. I replaced mine at 130k. It was a long day's work (along with multiple coffees and beers!) but I took the time to check all sorts of things as well as get the injectors ultrasonically cleaned and checked. Dunno why they (rockers) go, they just do. I don't run it on synthetic oil ever! because it's too slippery and doesn't let the lifters and push trods rotate as they are supposed to (roller rockers...different story).

We seem to forget that if an engine has a life expectancy of say 200k between major overhauls based on stop/start driving, and we are buying one at say 170k, then it's life expectancy is 80% gone already...same with transmission.

Major stuff apart from the rockers has been the viscous couping unit in the t/f case. That also was a day's work. Next time I could prob. do it in 3 hrs...learning curve and all that.

Look for water leaks in the footwell and the spare tyre wheel well. Both can be fairly easily fixed (see these pages).

Don't fall into the trap of HD shocks..the standard Boges are far better with the air suspension. Air suspension sounds cumfy. It's not! It's a linear response and there's no way to get the magic carpet associated with the RR Classic which has, I suspect. loooong travel non-linear spring rates. Cooper (H/T) tyres don't help. They are hard and transmit even the slightest bump.

Frankly at the present time (mine has only 145k km in 13 yrs) I wouldnt try and pull 3t ... the torque band doesn't get going until you reach about 2500-2700 rpm ...which is above 100kmh in top gear.

All that said, it's great on a trip...last time i went to Sydney with 4 adults and luggage we averaged 85kmh for the whole trip down at around 12L/100km. got as low as 10.5-11 for some (freeway) parts...

Good luck


EDIT: The air suspension can be a PITA but it's worth it. Once you have it sorted...great
Thanks Hoges. That is really good information.
I'm surprised the engine is only designed to last 200,000km. Oh well, most mechanical things can be fixed. As I keep harping on about, the Commodore ( the car I'm replacing ) has done 400,000km and is still going strong ( although it is down in kw ).
I already have two cars with air suspension so that doesn't scare me.
Suggesting the P38 might not be good for towing 3t probably means a P38 is not the vehicle for me. Again thanks for your honest opinion and P38 owners should not think this is detrimental to the capability of their lovely vehicles.
I was trying to have a look at one this weekend. It's on ebay. I was going to take it for a long drive as you suggested but the seller is being a right *****. He refuses to let me inspect the vehicle. I thought he had something to hide so I cancelled my bids.
Oh well, a suitable vehicle will surface. They always do.

[Hoges]

There may be others who tow with a 3t load who will disagree with me... I pulled a 1t camper to Cape York in 2010. It went very well but I noticed that it had nothing in top gear until it was well past 110kmh ... which was too fast.

The 4.6 engine in the nth American spec had a 9.?:1 compression and probably about another 20bhp over the low compression (8.35:1) version which was imported here by LRA. That 20bhp would probably make all the difference...
(Perhaps I need to do a RonP38arover and get the engine upgraded with higher compression pistons etc!)

People do tow horse floats with them in the UK especially but I'm not sure what spec the engines are there. A 2.5 BMW diesel is probably better for that application anyway...

[ytt105]

I've never towed 3+tn but my dual fuel p38 (see the for sales) has towed 1.5 camper trailer plenty. I agree that the torque band is a bit too high but that's what the gear stick is for. Just pull the stick back one before a hill and you will sail over.
On the comment of towing 3t my mate has 3t caravan and just sold his Prado diesel for 100 series diesel because the Prado wasn't good enough. He's not too happy with the cruiser as it's not much better than the Prado. Towing he gets 19l/100 Not very cheap travelling to me.

[Hoges]

3t is a hefty anchor to pull along...besides which a large van has a significant aerodynamic drag factor to consider... there's close to three times the drag at 100kmh than there is at 60kmh... and 1.5 times the drag at 100 compared to 80kmh... doesn't surprise me that 19L/100km is achieved when you have close to 6t all up travelling at 100 kmh...

[PaulP38a]

3t is a hefty anchor to pull along...besides which a large van has a significant aerodynamic drag factor to consider... there's close to three times the drag at 100kmh than there is at 60kmh... and 1.5 times the drag at 100 compared to 80kmh... doesn't surprise me that 19L/100km is achieved when you have close to 6t all up travelling at 100 kmh...

methinks Hoges has more than a passing interest in, and knowledge of, fluid dynamics :p

[Hoges]

methinks Hoges has more than a passing interest in, and knowledge of, fluid dynamics :p

Yep, drink beer slowly!:angel:

[Craig_Keira]

We went and met Paul. Thanks for the hospitality and patience!! Filled up my brain somewhat more. The next step will be the 4wd show where we'll pester some of you to show us your RRs and Discos before heading up to Sydney to look. Trying to find a P38 without buggered paint is proving hard.

[Keithy P38]

I heard that he's an alright bloke too ;-) If you look hard enough you'll find one with good paint! Any P38's that have lived north of Rockhampton will be showing signs of paint fatigue, I bought my first P38 from Sydney with mint condition paintwork, my second and current one has perfect paint still and was a Melbourne car all it's life. The green one took less than a year in Townsville and the paint started to go bad, current blue one has not started to flake yet but I have polished it a few times in the year and a bit I've owned it!

A full respray in the same colour shouldn't cost you more than 5k provided the panels are pretty straight! Also forms an excellent negotiating point!

Hope you find one that suits your tastes! They are a fantastic 4wd, and much more reliable than people would have you believe! Look for one that's been well looked after and you'll be right!

Cheers
Keithy

[33chinacars]

My old P38 (now traded) had perfect White paint. Apart from a few small issues with air suspension was in fantastic condition with 200,000 kms. So keep looking good ones are out there, just a matter of finding the right one. Even ones with a few problems at the right price are worth looking at. When I bought mine it was basically on the bump stops but after advice from members on here I took the risk. Knocked $1500 off price. Last owner had been quoted $2500-3000 to fix. Cost me under $600 to fix & included an EAS Kicker. Fantastic car to drive. Didn't like getting rid of it but SWMBO said could keep it & the newer L322. But hell it was a nice car. Another P38 I looked at faded & drove like a bucket of bolts. So drive a couple even if there not for sale so you know whats good & bad. Sure members on here wont mind :wasntme:

Gary

[rovercare]

Gary, how does the l322 compare to the p38? I've never driven an l322

[jsp]

Gary, how does the l322 compare to the p38? I've never driven an l322

Thats a big can of worms and a personal taste thing. The 322 is easily the step up from the P38 that the P38 is from the hard dash classic.

Even given, I miss driving my P38 daily, and also my worn tattered old P38 seat which fit my backside perfectly is just as comfy as the non lux seats in my 322. my wife likes the 322 and says I should be selling my P38 :(

The only other thing I can throw in is try and find a P38 which has been undercover most of its life. Mine spent most of its life parked during most days in the sun in the work car park, not only is paintwork an issue, but all plastics exposed to sunlight are also now proving very troublesome. Including a very warped dash. Things snap and crack so easily, but then most plastics which were out of the direct sun still seem to be fairly solid, I guess its UV breakdown.

I feel I have looked after mine well, but its a mess compared to lots of them I see in the 200-250 k's range and mines done just over 260.

personally, put in the audi heater matrix with clamp on fittings, somehow jerry rig and fit in the eas valve block from the L322 (simple plastic long life low leak masterpiece compared to the aluminum brick on the p38), and some how take away the becm's ability to go into lockdown mode and I think you would have a very reliable car - and I dont think those things are impossible at all.

PS - I put my hand up to say Hard Range Paul's a top bloke as well :) helped me out a few times now!

[Camo]

Gary, how does the l322 compare to the p38? I've never driven an l322

Chalk and cheese, totally different car.. I doubt there would be one part on the L322 which was used from the P38 (thank god!)

Airbag suspension on the L322 is way nicer and handles better..steering and brakes are like a normal car.

My dad has had his 1997 HSE P38 since 2000. He wrote down all the problems he had with it in the last 100,000ks (he bought it with 60k on it).. added up to 27k :cool:

new engine
transfer
airbags (wear item)
valve block
brake booster
brake controller upgrade (no idea but was an aftermarket part..didn't work)
Wheel bearings... wtf?
crank angle sensor
x2 fuel pumps.. must be crap pumps!

Thats all I could remember sorry.. list is double that.

He still has the car.. pretty much a farm car now used for towing the trailer.

You can buy them so cheap these days but be prepared to have a few k up your sleeve for the expected problems. Personally I would never touch one no matter how good the deal is;)

Camo

[Hoges]

Chalk and cheese, totally different car.. I doubt there would be one part on the L322 which was used from the P38 (thank god!)

Airbag suspension on the L322 is way nicer and handles better..steering and brakes are like a normal car.

My dad has had his 1997 HSE P38 since 2000. He wrote down all the problems he had with it in the last 100,000ks (he bought it with 60k on it).. added up to 27k :cool:

new engine
transfer
airbags (wear item)
valve block
brake booster
brake controller upgrade (no idea but was an aftermarket part..didn't work)
Wheel bearings... wtf?
crank angle sensor
x2 fuel pumps.. must be crap pumps!

Thats all I could remember sorry.. list is double that.

He still has the car.. pretty much a farm car now used for towing the trailer.

You can buy them so cheap these days but be prepared to have a few k up your sleeve for the expected problems. Personally I would never touch one no matter how good the deal is;)

Camo

Good reasons to purchase a "Bosch upgrade" model mentioned previously if you can. Not perfect but considerably lower risk.

[33chinacars]

Gary, how does the l322 compare to the p38? I've never driven an l322

Hi rovercare. To me a huge diffence between L322 & P38. I just took one for a drive to see what they were like. Word of advice dont do it or you could get hooked like me. The 4.4 BMW V8 will blow your older 4.6 away. L322 handles better & rides smoother not that there is anything wrong with P38. Just does eveything better. Going for a drive in an L322 was the best/worst thing I could have done. Within 2-3 weeks of first drive we had bought a L322 TD6. No as fast as a V8 but just as nice. Bigger, more room in the back for stuff. Just had to choose between V8 & diesel. Went with TD6 as better low down torque & fuel economy. Its not that I dont miss P38, couldn't afford to keep both.
If your happy with your P38 stick with it. But dont drive an L322 out of curiosity as I did. And look what I've done now. :angel: Wife didn't care as long as I was happy. When we got nearly as much as a tradein as we paid for our P38 that was the deal clincher. AND they were willing to wait for an investment to come in. So $1000 deposit & 3 + months later I pick up the L322 [thumbsupbig][thumbsupbig].

Any more Questions happy to answer

Gary

[Hoges]

Thats a big can of worms and a personal taste thing. The 322 is easily the step up from the P38 that the P38 is from the hard dash classic.

Even given, I miss driving my P38 daily, and also my worn tattered old P38 seat which fit my backside perfectly is just as comfy as the non lux seats in my 322. my wife likes the 322 and says I should be selling my P38 :(

The only other thing I can throw in is try and find a P38 which has been undercover most of its life. Mine spent most of its life parked during most days in the sun in the work car park, not only is paintwork an issue, but all plastics exposed to sunlight are also now proving very troublesome. Including a very warped dash. Things snap and crack so easily, but then most plastics which were out of the direct sun still seem to be fairly solid, I guess its UV breakdown.

I feel I have looked after mine well, but its a mess compared to lots of them I see in the 200-250 k's range and mines done just over 260.

personally, put in the audi heater matrix with clamp on fittings, somehow jerry rig and fit in the eas valve block from the L322 (simple plastic long life low leak masterpiece compared to the aluminum brick on the p38), and some how take away the becm's ability to go into lockdown mode and I think you would have a very reliable car - and I dont think those things are impossible at all.

PS - I put my hand up to say Hard Range Paul's a top bloke as well :) helped me out a few times now!

sorry for low level 'hijack' :wasntme: This is indeed very interesting development! Probably needs a separate thread ... Have not seen the L322 option mentioned anywhere else...is it really that much of an improvement?

(Have seen reference to the audio heater matrix in the US sites...but which model Audi?)

[Camo]

sorry for low level 'hijack' :wasntme: This is indeed very interesting development! Propbably needs a separate thread ... Have not seen the L322 option mentioned anywhere else...is it really that much of an improvement?

Improvement is an understatement..

I'm blown away at the quality difference between both.. Totally different cars.

Ive had my L322 for a year now.. Still love it.. next car will be another L322 :D

Camo

[jsp]

sorry for low level 'hijack' :wasntme: This is indeed very interesting development! Propbably needs a separate thread ... Have not seen the L322 option mentioned anywhere else...is it really that much of an improvement?

I have had no luck rebuilding two P38 valve blocks I have, every time I have ended up with some form of issue. its most likely my own incompetence :)

The L322 one if plumbed in would be a vast improvement, i haven't sat down and compared the two systems to see if you could splice in the 322 kit.

The only issue I can see going wrong with the 322 block is rusty springs, and maybe o-ring's but the fact they are in plastic which is that bit more maleable than the aluminium and the fact its under the car like the classic's was keeping it out of the engine bay heat I think means o-rings are not an issue.

if water gets in the system the valve return springs can go rusty and cause the valve to seize.

here's a pic of a 322 valve block in bits

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1269.jpg

also the air lines are connected by a nut with an insert o-ring, its just a far superior and simpler way of doing it, and again allot is to be said for having all that gear away from engine bay heat as the original valve block on my classic gives no issues thus far at 240k's.

Still there's allot of P38's on the road so the eas can't be all that bad :)

[redandy3575]

The L322 is still a bit out of my price range. I don't know how true this is, but have been told that the 4.4 BMW V8 is a non- serviceable engine, meaning you cannot get a lot of internal parts apart from the head gasket. Wouldn't surprise me, as engine recycling is a big viable thing in Germany, not here though.

If i was getting one, I wouldn't go any later than a 2005 model, as you'll be pushing to get any aftermarket accessories I.e Bullbars, mud terrain tyres etc. I know today's model you can almost forget about going off-road with them as the rim sizes are too big for any tyre options. The Discovery has really taken over where the Range Rovers left off, some are even saying that P38 was the last of the true Range Rovers. There's a point somewhere.

[Hoges]

The L322 is still a bit out of my price range. I don't know how true this is, but have been told that the 4.4 BMW V8 is a non- serviceable engine, meaning you cannot get a lot of internal parts apart from the head gasket. Wouldn't surprise me, as engine recycling is a big viable thing in Germany, not here though.

If i was getting one, I wouldn't go any later than a 2005 model, as you'll be pushing to get any aftermarket accessories I.e Bullbars, mud terrain tyres etc. I know today's model you can almost forget about going off-road with them as the rim sizes are too big for any tyre options. The Discovery has really taken over where the Range Rovers left off, some are even saying that P38 was the last of the true Range Rovers. There's a point somewhere.

Re. the BMW engines...I've seen posts in other fora where big end bearings etc are virtually unobtainable. As mentioned previously, there's a well known LR parts bloke in the Bris area who describes BMW and derivatives (L322 etc) as "one owner cars" ... keep 'em for 80k km then move on... for exactly the reason you state...

[PaulP38a]

The plastic EAS unit in the L322 worries me as much as the alloy unit in the P38. Porting the L322 valve block to a P38 would also have challenges in terms of cross-linked EAS, driver module, CAN-Bus etc. I dare say not worth it.
The use of screw-in air-fittings however has a lot of merit. It would not be difficult on the P38 EAS Valve block with a thread cutter (note to self - check this out as a way to do away with dodgy collets).

I can certainly understand the bias some folks have to the L322 (but only if they have driven/owned a P38) as I felt the same when moving between RRC's and the P38. I have purposely not spent any significant time behind the wheel of a L322 or RR Sport for that very reason.... I'm not done with the P38 yet... love it, drive it most days, and there are still enhancements and add-ons that I want to see in production before I get distracted/ obsessed with another model Rangie.

Andy has a TD6 L322 and it is a lovely car to drive, looks great and I reckon it would give my modified P38 Hard Rangie a good run for its money off-road. It is not for me yet, but I do respect the folks who choose this over other Land Rovers. Andy has done some impressive stuff to the L322 in the time he has had it... one day they may become Hard Range "bespoke stuff"... snorkel, bullbar, sliders etc.

Some people have the very unfortunate experience with their P38's of buying one that has been neglected in terms of EAS maintenance items (Valve Block, compressor and air-springs) which leads to the impression they are unreliable. Pre-99 models are getting more Brake Modulator issues (due to the plastic discs) and liner/gasket issues are common in alloy engines (not just Rover).

Here's an recent example of a situation that could have led to tears if neglected:
My wife mentioned that her P38 was riding rough and the "light thingy on the dash" was flashing on her way to work (translated as EAS not reaching desired height). A quick look at the EAS Emergency Bypass Kit showed the tank was not at full pressure (> 140psi) indicating a leak or compressor not working efficiently. No obvious leaks using a spray bottle. Pulled out the compressor and checked the piston seal... sure enough, it looked pretty flat and offered little resistance to the cylinder. Swapped for a new piston seal and the whole thing was done in less than 30 minutes. Car lifting quickly, Wifey happy again... so me fed, clothed and happy too :)

The P38 is not for the faint-hearted, poser or lazy person. It is a member of the family and demands attention like a dog or child. Neglect it and you will pay the price later.

Cheers, Paul.

[Craig_Keira]

Paul, the Autobiography in Sydney has gone up on price by $3k! Better photos also reveal the bonnet and roof paint is a real mess. That one's out. Appears there are more HSEs for sale in Melb which also seem in better nick. Gah!

[Hoges]

FWIW: According to some vintage car buffs with whom I have a passing acquaintance, Adelaide is the best place to find second hand vehicles ...especially those which have been there since new... Canberra is next and then Melbourne. It's all to do with the weather apparently and the usually lower relative humidity... Also Adelaide and Canberra have better roads generally so less wear 'n' tear...

[Sydr]

I've read the comments about unreliability and about towing with great interest. It was only after discovering this forum that I learnt that my car is supposed to be unreliable! So I've been driving it since new (1997) - 15 years in blissful ignorance. Maybe you guys know too much?

I have towed around 1.5 tons being a historic racing car (not as light as you'd think) and a large trailer plus tools, jacks and other racing paraphernalia from Sydney North to Qld and South to Melb and Adelaide, thru heat, rain, cold, floods and droughts and never had a problem until a brand new radiator hose blew off, and my motor caught a "heat" (as opposed to catching a "cold"), at 180,000 km. That loosened a liner, can't complain about that. Until then the car was rock solid.

I have my car serviced religiously and send it to a reliable service provider. I thought it was too complicated to tackle myself, paid the couple of grand a year for peace of mind and enjoyed my Rangie. I have refrained from driving the 322 and tell myself it has a box like look and can't be that different. That way, I've kept temptation behind me. I've been told that once they rack up higher mileage, they get very expensive and difficult, but I don't know whether that is true.

Having read the posts, I am going to be more involved in the technical side of my car from now on.

My view is that the p38 offers amazing value, comfort and style for no real money. What else can you get for what a nice one costs now? If you buy one, someone else has takin a beating on the original cost. I know, I have because I bought mine new.

Even if you have to replace the motor with a top hatted unit, service the EAS and replace the rubber airbags so what? You still can't beat it for style, performance and comfort and it will reward you in spades if you look after it. Apart from the engine, transmission parts can be had very cheaply. Why? Well 'cos they seldom go wrong so every wrecker has p38 transmissions that aren't selling.

As to the comments about towing a heavy trailer, I have a system: Put it in 'sport', set the cruise control using my GPS to the real road speed that I want, (usually a coupla clicks faster than the dash instrument, 'cos the GPS shows the true road speed) and when it kicks down automatically, I pull it down a gear to hold it in the lower gear and let it wind itself up the hills - which it does admirably. It is almost obscene, listening to the radio or cd stacker in airconditioned luxury seats, watching the world go by, while the car does all the work.

Do your homework, take your time, find a good one and have some fun with it. :)

[PaulP38a]

Craig - I will be in Sydney on sat 18 Feb dropping my daughter off at the airport. If you find a P38 to check out I can bring my Nanocom along and meet you.
Cheers, Paul.

[DANMAL]

I've been in a P38 many years ago. I was in Whisky Mac's at the Greendale gathering. They are a nice vehicle.
I'm after something that will tow 3t with ease. The Commodore will tow 2.1t legally. In it's earlier life it towed quite a bit more at freeway speeds but don't tell anyone. I've got to say the VR Commodore has been the best car I have ever had and at 400,000km it is still going strong.
I've also been looking at Landcruisers.

The thing about the P38 is they are not expensive. If I get a lemon, I'm not too fussed. Spare parts for the next.

Hey Mick, i have a my99 bosch upgrade... i went for the cheaper option which had 180 on the clock and it ended up costing me a whole lot more (around $19500 including car)... i was ready to throw it of the westgate bridge or sell it reaally cheap but decided to put the dollars into into... iv never looked back... its had the works... air suspension, brand new top hat lined motor with torque cam,Transmission , which really didnt need to be changed due to so n so "rangie specialists", airflow meter, uni joints, o2 sensors etc... i towed my mates disco2 105km to a garage and it had no issues what so ever (up hills and all) he was shocked at the fact that we hardly felt it on the back... point is, if it goes to the right mechanic or you do things yourself properly without cutting corners, they are UNBEATABLE...
cheers Sam.

[Craig_Keira]

Paul - still looking. It seems there are more of better quality in Melb than Sydney. Which is a real pain in the butt....plan is still to head up to Syd this weekend to at least look at what's around for what money. Looks like the Autobiography (with the magical $3k price increase!!) also has completely stuffed paint, representing poor value for money. It's a 1997 with 200k on it. There's no timber picnic tables in the back either - boo.

[Scouse]

The Autobiography was $30000 dearer when new than the HSE so it might well be a bargain even if it needs the roof & bonnet painting.

[Craig_Keira]

Scouse - the thing is, apart from a very nifty bits of leather and wood, this example has no real Autobiography extras as far as I can tell - no GPS (which probably will never work correctly now), no in car entertainment system and no timber fold down tables in the rear. So what am I really paying the money for? Surely the better place to put money is in a 1999+ HSE?

[Scouse]

The Autobiography sold locally was a lower spec than the UK spec cars - still an extra 30k though :(.

I agree though, a good later car is probably a better option.

[Craig_Keira]

So, what did this car (sans GPS etc) actually get for $30k??!

[Hoges]

So, what did this car (sans GPS etc) actually get for $30k??!

In real life most 'autobiographies' are an exercise in self-agrandisement:eek:
Wacking on additional $3k because of a name and the fact that you expressed an interest on this forum ('they' probably read it !!) reflects similar behaviour;)
Go find something better for the same/less $$$

[PaulP38a]

A $5 sticker and $29995 worth of pose value? :)

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

[Craig_Keira]

Lol.. Sold to the poser!

There appears to be a rapidly dwindling number of hses for sale in NSW at the moment.

Plan still stands. Bug ppl at the 4wd show and head to Sydney. Keira's getting excited about having a Rangie! Lucky me!!

[Scouse]

Lol.. Sold to the poser!

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your position), it's still very much the case with the current Range Rovers these days.

Check out the current Range Rover Ultimate:
2011 Range Rover Autobiography Ultimate Edition Geneva preview | Car Advice (http://www.caradvice.com.au/103896/2011-range-rover-autobigraphy-ultimate-edition-geneva-preview/)
$350000 apparently & one has just been sold here.


In 10-15yrs time, you could well be looking to upgrade your 1997 Autobiography to a $20000 Ultimate by then :).

[Craig_Keira]

That is a gorgeous car. I'm taking donations. It's not fair that now I've seen this, I should have to live without it.

[DT-P38]

I think I want some decking for my P38! Just for use under the awning when camping though, inside the vehicle seems a little OTT.

[wayneg]

Have you seen the Silver 2001 Vogue with all the nice wood bits on e-bay

[DT-P38]

and factory navigation...

Hey, I'm sure I've read its an expensive item to keep going and updated... does it actually work well? Anyone got factory GPS who can comment?

[DT-P38]

Range Rover P38 Official Land Rover Jigsaw Puzzle Games ideal Present gift Idea | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-Official-Land-Rover-Jigsaw-Puzzle-Games-ideal-Present-gift-Idea-/170765146299?pt=UK_Toys_Jigsaws_RL&hash=item27c26558bb)

Pull it apart whenever YOU want to;
It won't cost a cent whenever you do pull it apart;
You can always be sure of a perfect finish everytime you put it back together;
I would suggest its running costs might also be quite low!

Probably not going to be much good off road (or outside at all) though...

[Craig_Keira]

Planning to look at that 2001 Vogue on Sunday. Can't find much on them. That's a spec above HSE but below Autobiography?? Price seem ok?

[PaulP38a]

Range Rover P38 Official Land Rover Jigsaw Puzzle Games ideal Present gift Idea | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Range-Rover-P38-Official-Land-Rover-Jigsaw-Puzzle-Games-ideal-Present-gift-Idea-/170765146299?pt=UK_Toys_Jigsaws_RL&hash=item27c26558bb)

Pull it apart whenever YOU want to;
It won't cost a cent whenever you do pull it apart;
You can always be sure of a perfect finish everytime you put it back together;
I would suggest its running costs might also be quite low!

Probably not going to be much good off road (or outside at all) though...

Hmm, with my luck I'll put it all together and still have a couple of bits left over ;)

[PaulP38a]

Planning to look at that 2001 Vogue on Sunday. Can't find much on them. That's a spec above HSE but below Autobiography?? Price seem ok?

I can't find it, got a link?

[DT-P38]

Forget the 2001 in Sydney, import this one owner 1995 model from the UK - a real collectors item.

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1995-Range-Rover-Overfinch-570Hsi-1-owner-since-converted-/250983705742?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item3a6fcb6c8e)

[33chinacars]

Now that would be NICE HMMMMMM:):)

[Craig_Keira]

2001 Range Rover Range Rover Vogue V8 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2001-Range-Rover-Range-Rover-Vogue-V8-/190638057500?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item2c62e9e81c)

[33chinacars]

Hi Craig. Looks all right, bit pricey. Whats a car with QLD rego last month being sold in NSW. Has it been swimming ?? Not saying it has mind you BUT ???

Gary

[PaulP38a]

Looks like a fair price to me, especially if it has the high compression motor, which was more common on the 2001 and 2002 models as I understand.

Gary - if it kicks over and the EAS works, it probably hasn't been swimming ;)

Craig - drop by on Saturday to borrow my Nanocom if you want.

Dave - you are an evil, tormenting man... for $20-25K I could have an Overfinch in my driveway :twisted:

Cheers
Paul.

[Craig_Keira]

Gary, more likely a move to Sydney and didn't need it? But I'll look for silt in the wheel well. Being flooded is actually hard to hide.

Paul - cheers will do. I'll give you a call before we head to the 4wd show.

This one is more than I was going to pay but looks pretty good. How do I tell a high compression engine?

[Grumbles]

2001 Range Rover Range Rover Vogue V8 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2001-Range-Rover-Range-Rover-Vogue-V8-/190638057500?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item2c62e9e81c)

I thought this car was cheap compared to what I always see on Carsales or is it that the Carsales asking price is actually considerably different to the selling price which makes the price on the car in question realistic.

I'd like to hear more about picking a flood damaged car too please. I have no idea how to.

The car in that ad looks fantastic.

[Scouse]

Planning to look at that 2001 Vogue on Sunday. Can't find much on them. That's a spec above HSE but below Autobiography?? Price seem ok?The Vogue nameplate just replaced the HSE model. Both are the general 'top of the range' model (barring the special editions).

[Craig_Keira]

Grumbles: Flooding signs are hard to clean well. Look for water staining on seats and carpet, look in any wells for signs of fine silt. Lift carpets in the rear. See what else you can pry back. Try to lift a door trim and look there. Look for signs of silt in the engine bay - inside fuse boxes, under solenoids. Look under the oil cap - silt or rust? Silt is like bulldust - it gets everywhere. Look for anything you can peel back, lift, pry. They are the areas that won't be cleaned well enough to remove the signs. I found a ute after the Charleville floods for cheap. Sure enough, in the doors were yellow water soaked leaves. I confronted the dealer on it and he congratulated me and told me that I wasn't a mug. Dodgy as hell.

Also, there's often a very big difference between asking price and sale price. It's all got to do with how you haggle! Information is everything. The more you know about the other party without disclosing information yourself - the better off you are. And here's a tip - when you make your offer, shut up. First guy to speak, loses!

[Marshall]

The ad says full service history. This and the reciepts should give an indication on when and where it lived. Doesn't mean it has or hasn't been flooded, but if you know the areas of QLD that were recently flooded (look them up before you go look at the car), and even if you don't see any signs of flooding, you can use these as a haggle point...
Apart from that, great price for what looks like a great car

[Grumbles]

Many thanks Craig. That's very helpfull information - appreciated.
Great idea on the flood locations too Marshall - thanks.

[33chinacars]

Hey Craig In the long run as long as your happy with what you see. Condition price etc then go for it. Happy buying
Suppose thats what local dealer was asking for my MY98 2 years ago. Not what I paid tho. And thought prices had come down a bit more since.

Gary

[wayneg]

If you are going to inspect the silver one have a look at the plate with the build date on it. Its above the OS headlight under the bonnet on mine. They are stating first registered July 2001 but the plate might show a late 2000 date. More ammunition for negotiations

[Hoges]

Looks like a fair price to me, especially if it has the high compression motor, which was more common on the 2001 and 2002 models as I understand.

Gary - if it kicks over and the EAS works, it probably hasn't been swimming ;)

Craig - drop by on Saturday to borrow my Nanocom if you want.

Dave - you are an evil, tormenting man... for $20-25K I could have an Overfinch in my driveway :twisted:

Cheers
Paul.

FWIW the advert lists the CR as 8.37:1 :p

BTW had a rush trip (via VB & Qantas) to Cbr this week to assist my ageing Dad... the fact he's driving at 89 and was out until midnight to see the Searchers at the Vikings footy club ... makes me wonder why I worry!:eek:;)

[wayneg]

Just a couple of years before my time but still a great band...
The Searchers - Needles And Pins - YouTube

[Grumbles]

Grumbles: Flooding signs are hard to clean well. Look for water staining on seats and carpet,

I went back and looked more critically at the pics supplied. I noticed the carpet in the load space area floor appears lumpy/crinkled. Every other Rangie I have seen the carpet is smooth and a great fit.

Could this be water damage?

[33chinacars]

Love that Music. Opps side tracked.

[Hoges]

Just a couple of years before my time but still a great band...
The Searchers - Needles And Pins - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unwa_XQKc4A)

Quote from Papa: "well they've been playing together for 50 yrs...they're not doing too bad for 70 odd!":eek::D:D:D

[Keithy P38]

The carpet in my first p38 didn't sit flush over the wheel well lid either, it was in good condition though. Selleys fixed that one! The carpet in my current one appears water damaged (very hard and brittle) but I put that down to the dickie seats in the back. You can tell a lot about it's history from the carpets, wear to buttons/switches and the lack of white on the steering wheel audio and cruise buttons! As for the gear shifter knob! I'm yet to see a perfect one!

[Craig_Keira]

Trip Report: It was a bust.
The silver RR had the airbags taken out and coils put in. Could cost up to $4000 to fix that (airbags, compressor, ecu, delay timer etc). There was also a whine on drive from about 35-40kmh - disappeared on cruise or over-run. The ebay price was $14500. On the car was $16900. Sorry, nice car, not worth that. Offered $10k and walked away. No deal.

The green Autobiography was a complete basket case of a car. Whoever owned that should be shot. Dings and scrapes all over, worn through leather inside, grime everywhere, paint on bonnet and roof totally destroyed, headlining hanging off the roof everywhere. I wanted to abuse the dealer who said it was "in good condition throughout". In fact, I may just report him to ebay - he's taken very unrepresentative photos.

[Craig_Keira]

And big thanks to Paul from Hard Range for the loan of his Nanocom. At least I only found a failing MAF in the silver one. No other issues.

[redandy3575]

Sounds like the dealer's a bit of a so-and-so. So........where to from here.

[Craig_Keira]

Dealer with the 2001 silver was ok, just knows nothing about RR.

Dealer with the Autobiography is a real bastard.

Find a really nice P38, give it a good inspection.... Then steal it :)

[whisky_mac]

Hi Mick, I have recently come back from 15,000 km up the centre and over to the west. I am currently having some work done on my P38 because of a bush mechanic at Onslow, WA.

The P38 was great towing a Tvan behind, we got to spend a couple of days at Boggy Hole on the Finke river. Travelled the Gibb River road, no troubles crossing the Pentecost River but the GRR was very rough up to El Questro and not bad after there.

Just make sure that the people who work on them are familar with them.

Jim

[ytt105]

Craig, perhaps I should put the price of mine UP!!@

[Craig_Keira]

Trevor, I actually thought yours was sold - it's gone off allclassifieds??

Paul and I were discussing yours again last night.

[ytt105]

Thank god its gone of all classifieds!! That explains why the scam emails have stopped coming.

Don't start me on sales falling through!! One day you have three serious buyers, then next day, none.

So its still available, check the 'markets' here.

[Craig_Keira]

So...... choose one of the following for value for money and give your reasons!! :)

2000 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Private Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-2000-11957805'vertical=Car&cr=8&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Private Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-12084979'vertical=Car&cr=1&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER P38A SUV Private Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-11798018'vertical=Car&cr=6&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

[Craig_Keira]

Trevor - we are serious buyers! I think we've been convinced to get a Motronic though. I do keep coming back to yours as really good value for money, especially with the LPG. And it's been independantly verified that you know what you're doing and are a very nice bloke. That's far more praise than I direct to most people selling used cars :)

[Hoges]

So...... choose one of the following for value for money and give your reasons!! :)

2000 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Private Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-2000-11957805'vertical=Car&cr=8&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Private Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-12084979'vertical=Car&cr=1&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER P38A SUV Private Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-11798018'vertical=Car&cr=6&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

The red one appears to be pre "Motronic" upgrade (it has the older model wheels). I'd therefore check out the black one and offer a price between the two...say $14k. The back doors (hatch) on both appear to be properly "square" in their alignment so you may be lucky re. water leaks in the spare tyre well...but check with a hose anyway... plus all the other stuff you've been discussing...good luck!

EDIT the third one only has a 4L engine and high kms on the odo... wouldn't consider it

[ytt105]

I'll give my TOTALLY unbiased opinion of the GEMS/Thor debate, remembering that at the moment I have both!!

The Thor is definitely a better vehicle, but at what cost. I was able to purchase mine at a very good deal otherwise I would NOT spend the extra money.

When I was looking to upgrade to a Thor, a year ago, the changeover was in the order of $5000+. That's without factoring in the benefits of LPG.

There was no way I would pay that for an extra couple of wheels of traction control, a slightly better stereo system, supposedly a stronger front diff, (anyone ever break a front diff?), some very minor trim differences and a bit more power and slightly better fuel economy.

Obviously, the younger car would also be expected to be in better condition and have less mileage but this is not always the case.

Plus in my case, better the devil you know than the one you don't. I'd already done most of the usual bits.

But after making this momentous decision, (and investing in an update to the LPG system),my mate decides he needs a Rangie Sport so his Thor is available a price too good to say no to.

So, I now own two P38s and have begun the ritual of 'maintaining' the new one to my standards and installing LPG to gain back the economy I'm used to.

You can do a lot of travelling on 5 or 6 thousand dollars worth of LPG!

[wayneg]

The red one appears to be pre "Motronic" upgrade (it has the older model wheels). I'd therefore check out the black one and offer a price between the two...say $14k. The back doors (hatch) on both appear to be properly "square" in their alignment so you may be lucky re. water leaks in the spare tyre well...but check with a hose anyway... plus all the other stuff you've been discussing...good luck!

EDIT the third one only has a 4L engine and high kms on the odo... wouldn't consider it

Pretty much agree apart from I would discount amounts from the 14k if the air springs are original, compressor original etc.
For me none floats my boat but thats just a personal colour scheme thing.

[PaulP38a]

I wouldn't discount the 4L model because of the engine size, although 245k Km is getting a bit high. If the engine has been rebuilt in the last 50k Km, that probably isn't such an issue either.

My blue 1999 4.0 "Hard Rangie" holds its own pretty well on and off the road. I think my black 2000 4.6 has a bit more pickup than the 4.0, but not really a fair comparion due to the "go tough" bits, diff gears etc on the 4.0.


I do believe the 4.0 Motronics has as much pickup as my older 4.6 GEMS had.

Craig - that Silver 4.0 is a "pov pack" like my blue one with cloth interior and no sunroof. The black one looks pretty much the same as my black one.

Cheers, Paul.

[33chinacars]

Unless there is a story not been told about the silver one ( 4.0) a few too many kms. Or get it for a steal.
Then to the Red car. All I can see is that the hood lining many be saging. Good kms. Get VIN to check if Gems / Thor or look under hood.
Black car no RWC. Good kms.
So Gems or Thor. Yes better car but by how much. And if you find a really good Gems at the right price then I would probably go for it.
Good luck hunting.

Gary

[Craig_Keira]

I know this is a GEMS...
1998 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38 BLACK 4WD V8 AUTO SUNROOF LEATHER SEATS AUTO | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1998-LAND-ROVER-RANGE-ROVER-HSE-P38-BLACK-4WD-V8-AUTO-SUNROOF-LEATHER-SEATS-AUTO-/280826245143?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item41628c7017)

What model came out with the nifty cup holders in the rear centre armrests? Saw that on the 2001 Vogue (with coils, dammit!)

[adm333]

First job you would have to do is replace the instrument bulbs. The one on the left is out, hence the darkness on the left of the information display.

Also can't believe someone would take such close up shots of the dash and not clean it first.

I have a small paint brush I use in conjunction with the vacuum cleaner to get dust and dirt out of every little crevice, doesn't everyone ?

[Grumbles]

That black P38 to me gives the impression it has had a hard life and been cleaned up for the sale. Even then the cleaning wasn't done properly. It's definitely a non starter for me.

There is one point whch I consider to be relevant when buying a P38 and that is to get one which has the updated ABS brake modulator fitted so that you don't encounter the shuttle valve problem. I am not sure which year that happened but others will know.

Keep looking Craig -you can look a hundred times for free but buy only once. :D

[Craig_Keira]

I agree. I'll give the black one a miss. There's something not right about that car. It's as though he's given it a wash but can't be bothered with anything else. What's the bet he thinks a major repair in coming? ;)

Can't really look for free... they're all over the Eastern seaboard lol. I was seriously thinking about going to Melb to have a look but so far I've only talked to the owner of the red one down there. The seller with the black 2000 HSE isn't answering still.

[Hoges]

First job you would have to do is replace the instrument bulbs. The one on the left is out, hence the darkness on the left of the information display.

Also can't believe someone would take such close up shots of the dash and not clean it first.

I have a small paint brush I use in conjunction with the vacuum cleaner to get dust and dirt out of every little crevice, doesn't everyone ?

too much information:eek::Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

[Craig_Keira]

What about
1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-11742930?cr=8&distance=25&vertical=Car&eapi=2&page=1&sort=~Odometer&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294965541% 204294965478%204294932900&silo=Stock&Range=Year:1999,2001)

I know the mileage is a little high. But, I'm more worried about what those miles were like. If they are highway miles, no problem, really.

[Grumbles]

It looks good - no interior photos though. As you say how those kilometres were accumulated is important here. A look at the service books and maybe a chat with the previous owner may prove fruitfull. Hopefully a dedicated Land Rover workshop has been regularly looking after it.

Mayne a Melbourne forumite could have a preliminary squiz at it for you.

When looking at used cars I find it quite difficult at times to balance high kms vs low kms and dedicated servicing with more generic servicing.

What I have learnt over the years is to never to buy a car which has been owned by an accountant. These bean counters are prone to penny pinching and short change the servicing/maintenance needs as they balance usage/dollars/parts component life expectancy/parts quality/servicing/maintenance etc and usually to the detriment of the car.

If you're a finance man Craig I'm running for my cave right now...:wasntme:
The other thing which is a deal breaker for me is a car which was used to tow caravans and boats. Boats because the back half of the car [including door seals] has probably been regularly immersed in salt water.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

only 132K Kays--
Land Rover Range Rover Hse P38a 1998 in South Australia - Discount Used Cars (http://www.discountusedcars.com.au/used-cars/land-rover/range-rover/11273219.aspx)

[PaulP38a]

I agree. I'll give the black one a miss. There's something not right about that car. It's as though he's given it a wash but can't be bothered with anything else. What's the bet he thinks a major repair in coming? ;)

Can't really look for free... they're all over the Eastern seaboard lol. I was seriously thinking about going to Melb to have a look but so far I've only talked to the owner of the red one down there. The seller with the black 2000 HSE isn't answering still.

Really? That black 98 HSE in Goulburn for $10k looks pretty reasonable to me.

I don't expect to buy a 10-15yo car and have everything immaculate. It is obviously on a property and a bit of dust on the dash is no big deal. Nor is the mud/crap/other on the front right tyre, or blown bulb in the dash, and the front/rear decals are easy to replace. The warp on the rear bumper is not uncommon, and should be easy enough to fix. Those rims look ok, but I am glad he is including the originals as well.

Would be nice to see a pic of the front leather seats. The rear looks good.

Rego is up next month... may or may not be a sign of a pink-slip issue, or it could just be that he has hung on to it as long as he can and can't afford to keep it any longer.

I get the impression that this is more genuine than any I've seen advertised in car yards.

Cheers, Paul.

[Craig_Keira]

Ok, trip to Goulburn then!!

[Craig_Keira]

This!
1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-11742930'vertical=Car&cr=2&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

According the numbers I found on here, it's engine number is 59D which makes it high compression. The blend motors have just been done. Headlining is sagging but he's getting a quote on that. he's also told me that it's been serviced by ULR and to call them to find out about service history.

I think I may be going to Melbourne this weekend....

[Hoges]

This!
1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-11742930'vertical=Car&cr=2&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

According the numbers I found on here, it's engine number is 59D which makes it high compression. The blend motors have just been done. Headlining is sagging but he's getting a quote on that. he's also told me that it's been serviced by ULR and to call them to find out about service history.

I think I may be going to Melbourne this weekend....

FWIW My July1999 build 4.6 HSE has a "59D" series engine. The CR is the low compression 8.37:1 according to the stamp on the side of the block. Ron P38arover has advised previously that none of the high compression P38s (9.?:1) were imported here by LRA ...just so you know!! good luck in the hunt...

[33chinacars]

This!
1999 LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER HSE P38A SUV Cars For Sale in VIC - carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/land%20rover-range%20rover-1999-11742930'vertical=Car&cr=2&eapi=2&__N=1216) 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965541 4294965478 4294950576&distance=25&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~1|Mileage:Min,Max|Seats:Min,Ma x|EngineSize:Min,Max|Year:1999,2001&sort=LastUpdate

I think I may be going to Melbourne this weekend....

Did you buy it. If not Better double check. As it says no longer for sale ???

Gary

[Craig_Keira]

Purchased! 99 HSE.

Epic drive from Canberra to Melbourne on Friday after work.
Looked at two this morning. Just got home. Have to go back to pick it up.

[Grumbles]

Congratulations. :D

I'm looking forward to hearing how it all transpired. I bet you are tired but wrapt and that you can't wait to pick it up and drive it home.

[Hoges]

The wheels look like it's a Bosch upgrade model... well done!

[Craig_Keira]

It is indeed the Motronic! And it even has two fobs! Although neither work lol.

We did a rush trip after work on Friday, arriving there at about 2am. In the morning it was out to brekkie and the dealer. He was in Hastings and the other RR was in Point Cook.

From his original price, the dealer came down $3.5 - so I don't think there was a lot left in it (never know really).

We took it for a drive up to Arthurs Seat and had coffee. Then we took it back, got lost, went down a couple of very rough dirty roads and took it back to the dealer. It just 'fitted'.

We looked at the other HSE, but at $4k more, plus being GEMS (and with questionable maintenance history), we decided we'd go the silver one if we could get it at a good price.

And Saturday afternoon we left Melbourne to arrive in Canberra at about 2am.

This one was originally a Rover Australia car (maybe some history in that?). The log books were faultless all along.

Here's the downside: It needs new rear brakes and headlining. I'm really not sure how it passed rwc....yeah.

I'll try to take a day off work on Friday and fly down to pick it up and hand over a cheque before driving it back up. I've got a wedding in Canberra to go to Saturday.

Anyone in the Melb area want to lend me their shed/tools to change some brake pads? :) Please?

[Craig_Keira]

Pics

[PaulP38a]

Nice one Craig and Keira.
I have never seen a cargo liner like that. Wanna sell it to me? :p
Would fit the bill nicely for lining the back of mine (probably the missus' pretty P38) when we can get the dogs to stay off the back seats... waiting for the cargo barriers to arrive.
Cheers, Paul.

[DT-P38]

Anyone in the Melb area want to lend me their shed/tools to change some brake pads? :) Please?

Will be home this Friday, so can help out with this. PM me your contact details and I'll give you a call some time tomorrow.

Just warning you though... it could get dangerous for the silver ones bosch bits. My "pretty pig" is possessed by the dark lord (lucas electronics). I will have to park her on the street before you get into the carport! She might get jealous of the later model in the drive!

Is the dealer gonna help you out with a lift from the airport? Tulla to Hastings is a bit of an expensive cab ride.

[PaulP38a]

You are a good bloke Dave. I thought you might volunteer to help out. :thumbsup:

I know you will make sure Craig and Keira's P38 doesn't leave Melb without a "Harden Up" sticker on it, which has been proven in independant laboratory tests to increase vehicle reliability by up to 50%.

Craig, I can personally vouch for Dave's hospitality and that he cooks a mean sausage... no that is not a euphamism for something else...

Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

Gotta worry about you southern lads sometimes!

[DT-P38]

That sounds ironically funny coming from a banana bender!!!

[Hoges]

That sounds ironically funny coming from a banana bender!!!

Naah, banana benders come from a town in NSW... Bendemeer :eek:

[Craig_Keira]

Locked and loaded. Dave - should be at Southern Cross around 0830. Which line do I take (I don't do trains)? I need to buy you beer or something for your help.

Huge thanks to Paul for lending me an EAS Kicker and an EAS Bypass for the trip - hopefully I won't need either.

Trevor - I'm happy to bring that LPG tank back for you. Please get in touch. OK if I go straight home and drop it off to you Saturday morning?

I've ordered a shift lever leather gaiter, the deep cup holder cubby lid and a rhino anthracite centre console switch surround.
Excited!!! My first Range Rover!! I've been talking about owning one since I was a kid in about 1985! We had an ex-Qld Rabbit Board SIIA then.

[DT-P38]

Not sure of platform @ Southern Cross but you want the Ringwood, Lilydale, Belgrave and Alamein line. It's only about half a dozen stations to Camberwell and (nearly) all trains stop there. Ask the person you buy your ticket from for guidance to be sure. You should get a zone 1 ticket for 2 hours (the minimum) which will cost you about 3 bucks.

[DieselDan]

I think Ringwood Lillydale line is on platform 10 at Southern Cross!
Hope it all goes well, have fun with your new purchase:D

[whisky_mac]

If you want to break your journey there is a bed at Wodonga, just send me a message. Only trouble is the bathroom is out as the trouble and strife is remodelling it.

[Craig_Keira]

I have no idea how to catch a train. I'll wing it.

Getting excited!! Paul's very kindly lent me an EAS buddy and a EAS emergency bypass set up. Crossed fingers that I have an uneventful 7 hours home.

[Hoges]

I have no idea how to catch a train. I'll wing it.

Getting excited!! Paul's very kindly lent me an EAS buddy and a EAS emergency bypass set up. Crossed fingers that I have an uneventful 7 hours home.

strong hands and a damned big net!:p

[DT-P38]

I have no idea how to catch a train. I'll wing it.

Getting excited!! Paul's very kindly lent me an EAS buddy and a EAS emergency bypass set up. Crossed fingers that I have an uneventful 7 hours home.

You'll be right. A couple of million people do it each day down here!

Don't forget to give me a call when you get on the train. It's my trigger for being there to pick you up at Camberwell on time.

Pads at local Repco are a bit ex-y but there if you need them. $90 for bendix and $80 for plain wrap.

[Craig_Keira]

Dave - could you PM me your number?

I got the pads from Repco for $60. I thought that was OK?

[DT-P38]

PM Sent re. Number.

Also, that's closer to what I thought would be a "normal" price, and good compared to the "gouging" quote I obviously got... what brand?

[Craig_Keira]

I got in at 2am with the Rangie.

I cannot express my gratitude enough to Dave. Thanks mate. I would have quite happily stayed and got on the sauce with you if I didn't have a wedding today.

Thanks also to Paul for lending me an EAS buddy and bypass kit. You're clearly going to be a good bloke to know.

The Rangie suffered a split in the top right of the radiator tank at Dave's. Thankfully he spotted it. A bit of areldite and waiting and I was on my way. Unfortunately, didn't quite work and I was topping up the coolant every couple of hours and nursing it home. Temp gauge didn't move - ever. So that's a good sign.

So after 7 hours of nursing a P38 back to Canberra, there's only this to say:

My name is Craig and I'm a Range Rover addict.

[whisky_mac]

Now enjoy it. I just hope that the temp gauge works.

Jim

[DT-P38]

Well done Craig! Pretty sure you've got a good one there... No doubt it will continue to impress and amaze you.

Remember, one eyed P38 supporters are that way because the other eye is ALWAYS on the temp gauge!

Keep in touch and let me know if you ever wanna get out of it... She seemed to have a decent amount of poke.

[Hoges]

I got in at 2am with the Rangie.

I cannot express my gratitude enough to Dave. Thanks mate. I would have quite happily stayed and got on the sauce with you if I didn't have a wedding today.

Thanks also to Paul for lending me an EAS buddy and bypass kit. You're clearly going to be a good bloke to know.

The Rangie suffered a split in the top right of the radiator tank at Dave's. Thankfully he spotted it. A bit of areldite and waiting and I was on my way. Unfortunately, didn't quite work and I was topping up the coolant every couple of hours and nursing it home. Temp gauge didn't move - ever. So that's a good sign.

So after 7 hours of nursing a P38 back to Canberra, there's only this to say:

My name is Craig and I'm a Range Rover addict.

:BigThumb::clap2:

[PaulP38a]

Hi Craig - if you have recovered from your Saturday night festivies, I will be trying to trace/fix a coolant leak on my VZ Crewman on Sunday. Welcome to come over for a drive and show me your new toy and we can plug the Nanocom in to see what's good/bad... help me fix the ute... might have something here to fix the crack your tank too...

Bl**dy GM/Holden V6 Alloytech makes the Rover V8 look so easy to work on. What drugs were Holden on when they decided to put the thermostat housing at the back of the engine? :twisted:

[Hoges]

Hi Craig - if you have recovered from your Saturday night festivies, I will be trying to trace/fix a coolant leak on my VZ Crewman on Sunday. Welcome to come over for a drive and show me your new toy and we can plug the Nanocom in to see what's good/bad... help me fix the ute... might have something here to fix the crack your tank too...

Bl**dy GM/Holden V6 Alloytech makes the Rover V8 look so easy to work on. What drugs were Holden on when they decided to put the thermostat housing at the back of the engine? :twisted:

"they"only build 'em ...they don't have to service them!

I happened to have the chance to "inspect" a friend's 4L V6 toyota Rav the other day. Goes like the clappers! Lifted the bonnet and there's the oil filter upside down and right in front on top with a curved metal surround to catch the oil content as you remove the filter from the engine...simple and practical... the whole layout seemed optimised for efficient servicing...

good luck with the crewman...!