How injured ex-service people are treated

[Gavo]

In most states TPI or equivalent ex service people receive a pass that allows them free use of public transport. Except for Victoria where they require people to me classified TPI and have oversea qualifying service (as what you would need to get a service pension).
They do not care what the injury is or where it happened only that you have oversea qualifying service. The federal government has treated all injured service people as far as entitlements the same and oversea qualifying service separately for years. If your are injured on duty in does not matter where you served. Someone could be incapacitated for life in basic training and they would be treated the same as some who has oversea qualifying service.
I am not playing down what oversea qualifying service is but that the Victoria Government should treat all injured ex service people the same, If DVA accept the persons claim as service caused that should be good enough

[Gavo]

please delete the post

[roverfan]

I think anyone in any job should be treated equally, a soldier shouldn't get any extra benefits Just because they CHOSE to be a soldier. Different story under conscription when you didn't have a choice.

[Gavo]

I think anyone in any job should be treated equally, a soldier shouldn't get any extra benefits Just because they CHOSE to be a soldier. Different story under conscription when you didn't have a choice.

Ok bit off the subject.
Don't know If I worded it correctly the question was if the Victorian government was wrong. Not weather all people should be treated the same. My argument was with the Victorian government who choose to there differently TPI differently than other state who do not require overseas service.
Do you believe in the concept or a well train regular defence force?
Are you ex service or do you have someone in your family who is ?
I take it your unhappy about something but that is not really helpful to my question here. Maybe you need to start your own question rather than voting "NO" on mine that does not really fit your cause.
Are you aware that service caused injures have server statute limitation on how mush compensation they are able to recive even if the do not accept what they are offered and take Defence department to court. Have you ever heared of millon doller payput to defence injured people? Because to don't happern. So if you want them all treated the same then maybe you need to chenge that as well and see how the tax dollars go.
More to your issue do you realise that a pensioner couple in Qld only get one car concession and every other state has one person. It only really is applied to married people because unmarried people can change there status to bypass that law. And also if your a married and loving together you pension is lowered unless you are separated for health reasons. Married people are certainly discriminated against in these two areas.

[lambrover]

I think anyone in any job should be treated equally, a soldier shouldn't get any extra benefits Just because they CHOSE to be a soldier. Different story under conscription when you didn't have a choice.

I agree with you but we are not treated the same as any body else with a civilian job, so this validates the question. So yes we should be compensated differently.

[Gavo]

This info was taken from the "VIETNAM VETERANS
ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA
SUBMISSION TO THE REVIEW COMMITTEE OF THE
VETERANS’ ENTITLEMENT ACT"
17 April 2002

1914 War
Pension Act
After the outbreak of World War 1 the government introduced the War
Pension Act 1914 to cover injury or death to members of the armed service.
As Justice Toose noted in his report Vol 1, 19, “The 1914 War Pension Act
provided war pensions for persons enlisted, or appointed for, or employed on
active service outside Australia or employed on a ship of war, and who
suffered death or incapacity which resulted from employment in connection
with warlike operations”.
1915 and 1916
amendments
By amendment in 1915 it was made clear that compensation was payable for
any disease contracted on service. In 1916 the Act was amended to extend its
provisions to those who were appointed or enlisted for home service.
These provisions supplanted any rights eligible members and their dependants
would have had otherwise under the Defence Act 1903.
Soldiers Repatriation
Act
1920
The Australian Soldiers Repatriation Act (the title of which was shortened in
1950 to the Repatriation Act 1920) was introduced in 1920. It served as the
basis for the payment of pensions and benefits to the ex-service and defence
community for over 60 years.
Dr Evatt’s
description of
the Act
The Attorney General and Minister for External Affairs the Right Hon Dr HV
Evatt KC, MP described the legislation in 1944 in these terms;
“The Australian Soldiers’ Repatriation Act 1920-1943 is not based
upon any well-known type of legislation. Though it may have
something in common with Workers’ Compensation, it is an instrument,
which is largely sui generis. It represents the desire of the Australian
people, through their National Parliament, to ensure that members of
Australia’s gallant fighting forces who have become wounded or sick as
a result of their service shall be properly cared for. That they and their
dependants, and the dependants of deceased members shall be provided
for by a war pension and otherwise assisted in the economic struggle of
life. The bearing of these forces in the fields commands the
administration of the world, and too much cannot be done in the way of
repatriation to recompense them for the sacrifice they made for the
sacred cause of liberty”

[Gavo]

I think that we should have a day apart from ANZAC day to recognise the service of all defence personal. I believe there are approx 4 million former defence personal who have not been on active service and who were not conscripts. Maybe then it would bring some stuff into the public eye. I think we have a police service day where they have a march through the city.
I have spoken to heaps of ex service people who look down and say I never went away, as if to say they don't feel there service to the nation was as important. You very seldom get a choice of where you go or what you do. When the Blackhawks went to Cambodia one crew prepared the aircraft and another group met the aircraft when they got there. The command sent who they wanted.

[hodgo]

I am a TPI with war service accretion and was an accredited pensions office and welfare office for the local RSL a few years back. I have just read these post and I am not sure if the 4 scotch and drys have effected my ability to interept your writing or not.
The State governments Eg. South Aust, Vic, NSW, Qld can give and take away what ever privileges to a TPI they wish A while back I was staying with a mate from Vietnam in Geelong we were going to a function on the other side of Melbourne in voling other Vietnam vets so we took the train, because I was from Qld I had to pay full fare both ways where NSW except and honor any Qld Cards.
As for non war service TPI or 100% disability to be awarded to an individual of which there are some out there Then the DEPT OF VET AFFAIRS must have considered that the persons injury or health condition is a life long problem that will cause him to have or prevent that person to hold down any type of long term employment regardless of age and so is awarded a TPI, and does not look apound the two different types a any different.

Hodgo

[bob10]

Rudyard Kipling, [ 1865-1936]



I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away".
But it's "Thank you. Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play.
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide.
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
But it's "This red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll.
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
an' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
We'll wait for extra rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!

different time, different uniform, same arrogant civilian attitude.If you haven't served, you would never understand. Bob

[Gavo]

EDA / TPI War Veterans Travel Pass: FAQs - Metlink - Your guide to public transport in Melbourne and Victoria (http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/fares-tickets/faqs/free-travel-passes-faqs-2/tpi-war-veterans-travel-pass-faqs/)

If you look at the above it seems like an expensive exercise on the parts of the state for very little gain. I am going to call the DVA in Victoria and ask them how many TPI people in Victoria who would not qualify under these new conditions.

And for some TPI with the correct service some may could argue that the process of having to go through all that process would hot be good for the heath some. I feel that the bean counters have got there way without seeing all the cost of checking out all this extra info

Hodgo did you realise up till now you could have showed you Qld TPI Gold Card and you would have been given a temporary pass while you were there. I used to be on there books I would email them a few weeks ahead of when I was going to visit and they would mail me up a temporary pass. I think if your going down there you should get hold of the central pass office. In that way it is quite good they wrote to me and said I don't get one now. While in Qld they have just changed over to a pass system that covers all public transport while before it was only rail travel with vouchers

[smithy1]

A very close friend of mine was granted a full tpi at the age of 42, went through hell and back, and his injuries related back to a UN deployment in Cambodia.
And happens to be a victorian.

[akelly]

I think anyone in any job should be treated equally, a soldier shouldn't get any extra benefits Just because they CHOSE to be a soldier. Different story under conscription when you didn't have a choice.

I think you have it backwards dude. Chosing to be a soldier/sailor/airman is like chosing to be a police officer or ambo or whatever. It's a career in service of the nation.

I don't want to burn a strawman, so are you suggesting if you chose to be an investment banker and trip down the stairs ****ed and full of coke at the Friday afternoon knees up you deserve the same benefits as a soldier injured in battle defending the nation?

Seems an odd position to take.

[Bigbjorn]

as a soldier injured in battle defending the nation?

Seems an odd position to take.

This is what Repatriation/ DVA Benefits were for. To give income support to persons who received war related injuries in a war zone. As I recall had to be there for thirty days in danger. Not for peace time soldiers injured at home. I can't accept that Defence Force personnel not engaged in a war zone can get an extraordinarily generous TPI (Totally Permanently Incapacitated) Pension. Commonwealth Public Servants (what else are peace time soldiers?) are covered under Comcare or should be.

This will cause a furore amongst the flag waving far right wingers. I don't agree with War Widows being given special treatment. What difference is it how a woman lost her man, lawful husband, shack up, de facto or what. DSS (Centrelink) gives financial support to supporting parents.

[malleefowl]

your reply suggests you are much younger than I
Support for war widows came because they had been living in difficult economic times ,bringing up a family unassisted.
The real heroines were the wives who stood by their men who came home
suffering from what we now call PTSD.Whether it be WW2 or any defence engagement the family -wife and kids of our defence forces deserve the BEST of treatment.Anyone who denies this is imo a fool
Cheers,
Mary

[bob10]

This will cause a furore amongst the flag waving far right wingers. I don't agree with War Widows being given special treatment. What difference is it how a woman lost her man, lawful husband, shack up, de facto or what. DSS (Centrelink) gives financial support to supporting parents.

Veterans with qualifying service come under the umbrella of DVA [ dept. of vet affairs], not centrelink. Veterans, who qualify, are entitled to a war service pension at age 60. Widows of qualifying veterans [or, nowadays, widowers] can only apply for a war widows pension if the death of the veteran was attributed to disease or injury [wounds, etc] relating to the veterans war service. Being married to a veteran does not automatically entitle you to a war widows pension. Bob

[bob10]

This is what Repatriation/ DVA Benefits were for. To give income support to persons who received war related injuries in a war zone. As I recall had to be there for thirty days in danger. Not for peace time soldiers injured at home. I can't accept that Defence Force personnel not engaged in a war zone can get an extraordinarily generous TPI (Totally Permanently Incapacitated) Pension. Commonwealth Public Servants (what else are peace time soldiers?) are covered under Comcare or should be.

This will cause a furore amongst the flag waving far right wingers. I don't agree with War Widows being given special treatment. What difference is it how a woman lost her man, lawful husband, shack up, de facto or what. DSS (Centrelink) gives financial support to supporting parents.

Have to agree with your first point, it is what DVA benefits are for. SERVICEMEN /WOMEN injured at home are entitled to the same level of compensation allowed for their civilian counterparts. They do NOT get the same benefits their counterparts with qualifying service [ war service ] are allowed . Those who serve in a war zone are not guaranteed full compensation unless they meet a very stringent set of qualifying rules.Every serviceman @ woman knows this, yet they still put themselves forward , because of their sense of duty, and besides, thats why they joined. I would like to suggest, the " normal" civilian workforce target jobs for what THEY can get out of it , not for how they can help others. Bob

[bob10]

your reply suggests you are much younger than
The real heroines were the wives who stood by their men who came home
suffering from what we now call PTSD.Whether it be WW2 or any defence engagement the family -wife and kids of our defence forces deserve the BEST of treatment.Anyone who denies this is imo a fool
Cheers,
Mary

Agree completely, having lived with a father who suffered from the effects of war, having lived thru him bashing my mother when I was too young to help, leaving home at 15 for that very reason, and seeing my mother stand by him , unconditionaly, until he died from a war related condition , at age 83, after 66 yrs of marriage, Sorry, can't say any more. Bob[ Just have one more thing to say to Brian Helm. If you don't understand the sacrifice the Woman married to men who came home from War , seriously effected by that experience, who stuck by their men, who raised their families in that volatile enviroment, then please don't make a sweeping statement, saying that they should be treated the same as, for example, wifes of the modern Australia, whose main worry is when their men are coming home from fly in, fly out, earning so much more than those who volunteer to to serve in the Armed Forces of this country. yours, Aye, Bob

[akelly]

...Commonwealth Public Servants (what else are peace time soldiers?) are covered under Comcare or should be...

Oh mate, you are so far off the mark I don't know where to start.

'Normal' employees can get life insurance at 'normal' rates and their employers are legally responsible to provide a safe working environment. Try getting life insurance that will cover you for conducting live-fire room clearance training, fast roping from helicopters or parachuting. You have a weird arm-chair expert idea of what a soldier does when they aren't at war.

As for the widows, you've obviously never stood on someones door step in uniform, gathering the courage to knock on the door and tell them that Hubby/Dad/Son (or female equivalent) is not coming home. Lucky you.

[lambrover]

I can't accept that Defence Force personnel not engaged in a war zone can get an extraordinarily generous TPI (Totally Permanently Incapacitated) Pension. Commonwealth Public Servants (what else are peace time soldiers?) are covered under Comcare or should be.

You are really showing our lack of knowledge in how defence actually conduct business. Being deployed is only one part, there is heaps more training that goes on in country so you can actually come home in one piece.

See how you go sending the common public servant over seas to fight.:D
I am not starting a fight but for you to think of in barracks soldiers as a common public servant gives me the ****s mate, look in the mirror and apply upper cuts.:mad:

This will cause a furore amongst the flag waving far right wingers. I don't agree with War Widows being given special treatment. What difference is it how a woman lost her man, lawful husband, shack up, de facto or what. DSS (Centrelink) gives financial support to supporting parents.

It is hard to appreciate what defence familys go through if you aren't one.

[Gavo]

I think the the liberal or national party mentioned that it wanted to add families of TPI veterans to the gold card medical system.
I think there needs to be more on the TV about the crap that they and there families. I think it a perfect example the QLD cop the was shot on duty had a fund raising event to raise money for his family. Not saying that is wrong but you never heard of that for a dead diggers family or one that has to deal with service related issue all alone. I think that wife/ partners of returned servicemen and otherwise messed up ex service people aught to be given a cares payment while they are still with there partner. Many suffer in silence and that is why people aptitudes are screwed up. Bit like the greens stopping hazard burns off then there not where to be found when the fire comes. A what is worse the media says nothing about them.
Did anyone see that SAS or clearance diver doco?
It funny how some say they chose that job and they did it was in there make-up. Some are drawn to serve. I don't know what that dude who said " they chose that job" as a excuse not to look after them when they are worn out, would think when the government conscript him in the service.