series 1 mechanical clutch

[HSE30]

Hello peoples, can someone please explain to me how the mechanical clutch system works and how to remove for inspection. I have heard that there are splines involved and mine may have been installed incorrectly. Pic's would help greatly......Thanks
Regards Russell

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Russell

The only difference between the Series 1 mechanical clutch (two types of linkages and two types of pressure plate) and the later SII/SIIa clutch is that the SII/SIIa uses a hydraulic cylinder connected to a lever and shaft that connects to the same clutch throwout used in the Series 1 systems.

The Series one system is a system of mechanical shafts and levers between the clutch pedal and clutch throwout.

The main problem in the series one is that the splines, bushes and pins wear and make the clutch difficult to adjust.

To remove the clutch friction plate for inspection, you have to dislocate the gearbox from the engine, the same as in any modern vehicle.

What is your specific problem? Perhaps we can help!

Diana

[HSE30]

Hi Russell

The only difference between the Series 1 mechanical clutch (two types of linkages and two types of pressure plate) and the later SII/SIIa clutch is that the SII/SIIa uses a hydraulic cylinder connected to a lever and shaft that connects to the same clutch throwout used in the Series 1 systems.

The Series one system is a system of mechanical shafts and levers between the clutch pedal and clutch throwout.

The main problem in the series one is that the splines, bushes and pins wear and make the clutch difficult to adjust.

To remove the clutch friction plate for inspection, you have to dislocate the gearbox from the engine, the same as in any modern vehicle.

What is your specific problem? Perhaps we can help!

Diana

Thanks for the reply. The main problem is no clutch pedal. I can feel contact with the thrust bearing in the final 10mm of pedal pressure, but not enough to allow gear change. The pedal adjustment is fully out. There is play in the shaft entering the bell housing. The person that I have purchased it from has had his teenage son playing with it......:o any suggestions????? The landy does have a holden 4 cylinder (starfire ) engine conversion.
Regards Russell.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Russell

Your problem may be an artefact of 50 years of wear on unlubricated parts.

What model? 80" or the later S1 models?

You should inspect all the parts from the pedal to the bellhousing. Check for movement of the shafts for wear on the bushes. One part that suffers from excessive wearing is the pins through cross shaft, and the holes in the sleeve that connects to the mechanical connections on the inside of the chassis.

Also if the PO reassembled the clutch throwout mechanism, which is basically a splined shaft connected to two fingers that press on the back of the throwout bearing, the son may have inserted the shaft one spline out of alignment. Unfortunately the solution to this is usually to remove the gearbox, undo the two set screws on the plate covering the LHS of the throwout cross shaft then slide the cross shaft out rotate the shaft so the top moves one spline to the rear and then re-insert the shaft and do everything else up.

While you have the gearbox out, check the clutch friction plate for wear, the cost of replacing the plate is far less than the work involved in removing the gearbox.

You can also do this to compensate for other worn parts, but it is preferable to repair or replace the wear, One solution for a worn cross shaft pin hole is to, firstly scribe a mark on the end of the shaft the exact alignment of the original hole, drill and tap the worn hole oversize, using permanent thread lock solution fit a bolt with the correct thread, cut it off round the shaft back to the correct diameter. Then using the mark scribed on the end of the shaft re-drill the original hole. The sleeves can be obtained new, but be careful S1 sleeves are designed to operate as a uni joint to enable gearbox movement while SII sleeves do not require this function and are close fitting tubes.

Diana

[HSE30]

Russell

Your problem may be an artefact of 50 years of wear on unlubricated parts.

What model? 80" or the later S1 models?

You should inspect all the parts from the pedal to the bellhousing. Check for movement of the shafts for wear on the bushes. One part that suffers from excessive wearing is the pins through cross shaft, and the holes in the sleeve that connects to the mechanical connections on the inside of the chassis.

Also if the PO reassembled the clutch throwout mechanism, which is basically a splined shaft connected to two fingers that press on the back of the throwout bearing, the son may have inserted the shaft one spline out of alignment. Unfortunately the solution to this is usually to remove the gearbox, undo the two set screws on the plate covering the LHS of the throwout cross shaft then slide the cross shaft out rotate the shaft so the top moves one spline to the rear and then re-insert the shaft and do everything else up.

While you have the gearbox out, check the clutch friction plate for wear, the cost of replacing the plate is far less than the work involved in removing the gearbox.

You can also do this to compensate for other worn parts, but it is preferable to repair or replace the wear, One solution for a worn cross shaft pin hole is to, firstly scribe a mark on the end of the shaft the exact alignment of the original hole, drill and tap the worn hole oversize, using permanent thread lock solution fit a bolt with the correct thread, cut it off round the shaft back to the correct diameter. Then using the mark scribed on the end of the shaft re-drill the original hole. The sleeves can be obtained new, but be careful S1 sleeves are designed to operate as a uni joint to enable gearbox movement while SII sleeves do not require this function and are close fitting tubes.

Diana

Thanks so much for the info. What you have described does make sense. There is alot of movement in the shaft and the fact that it may be a spline or two out seems to make sense also. I have 20 odd years experience with RR but this is totally new country for me.....but I'm loving it already...the simplicity is great no electronics:)
Regards Russell.

[HSE30]

Thanks so much for the info. What you have described does make sense. There is alot of movement in the shaft and the fact that it may be a spline or two out seems to make sense also. I have 20 odd years experience with RR but this is totally new country for me.....but I'm loving it already...the simplicity is great no electronics:)
Regards Russell.

Ooops. forgot it's a 57 or 8 thats a later right I also have a 55 107.
Russell.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ooops. forgot it's a 57 or 8 thats a later right I also have a 55 107.
Russell.Yes, I said later because the 80" has different system of levers and shafts to all the rest of Series 1 86", 107", 88" and 109".

On yours, there is a splined shaft going from a internally splined collar sitting on the inside of the RHS chassis rail. You may be able to resolve your issues by doing a similar rotate the spline technique with this shaft.

IIRC Firstly back off the adjusting rods on the outside of the chassis, then on the inside (you'll have to lift the floor panel) find the interconnecting shaft between the chassis and clutch cross shaft. With the clutch pedal held up. Remove the pin from just outside the gearbox bellhousing, slide the interconnecting shaft out of the collar on the chassis, rotate it forward one spline, replace the pin in the cross shaft and see if it improves the situation.

Diana

[HSE30]

Yes, I said later because the 80" has different system of levers and shafts to all the rest of Series 1 86", 107", 88" and 109".

On yours, there is a splined shaft going from a internally splined collar sitting on the inside of the RHS chassis rail. You may be able to resolve your issues by doing a similar rotate the spline technique with this shaft.

IIRC Firstly back off the adjusting rods on the outside of the chassis, then on the inside (you'll have to lift the floor panel) find the interconnecting shaft between the chassis and clutch cross shaft. With the clutch pedal held up. Remove the pin from just outside the gearbox bellhousing, slide the interconnecting shaft out of the collar on the chassis, rotate it forward one spline, replace the pin in the cross shaft and see if it improves the situation.

Diana
Thanks once again, lets hope that it's that simple:D
regards Russell.

[dennisS1]

There are several spots for wear, But a common one is the 2 pins (24 & 19)may have been replaced with 1/4 bolts and they wear, also lots of wear in the two bushes (16) will result in less movement, it may be as simple as replacing the pins but it is far simpler to go over this on the phone so if you want ring me PM a number and we can go over the likely spots for repair.
Dennis

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43287&stc=1&d=1328529854

[HSE30]

Ok update.......all went well. I removed the clutch mechanism made some new pins re-drilled the holes to get a snug fit. Re-installed and rotated the splines until the slack was taken up, which was probably a spline further forward. Now I have a beautifully working clutch. Thanks to all who contributed, makes these repaires easy when you get the correct advice from those who have been there before:):)
Regards Russell.

[HSE30]

There are several spots for wear, But a common one is the 2 pins (24 & 19)may have been replaced with 1/4 bolts and they wear, also lots of wear in the two bushes (16) will result in less movement, it may be as simple as replacing the pins but it is far simpler to go over this on the phone so if you want ring me PM a number and we can go over the likely spots for repair.
Dennis

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=43287&stc=1&d=1328529854

Thanks for the offer Dennis, I've sorted this one out with everone's great advice. I will take up your offer one day for a phone conference when next I'm stuck!!!!!
Regards Russell.