Cracked chassis defender 130 2010 puma

[azureindi]

Hi All
My Defender 130 year 2010 with Puma 2.7 turbo diesel is 18 months old and still under warrantry. While fitting a reversing camera I noticed the chassis had a crack behind the cab infront of the bracket for the tray on the passenger side. I am now driving a hire car ( not happy ) after 3.5 hours sitting in the dealership while Landrover decided what to do! We are still in the air as to whether this is a warrantry job. The car has 38000km on it and is my daily drive to work on a tar road. The tray has only moved a lounge! The tray was dealer fitted before pickup to their specifications!
My question is has any one else been in this situation?
I love this car and was hoping it would be with me for the next 30-35 years and was purchased from new, but we have had problem after problem...which has been rectified under warrantry, but am appalled at Landrovers treatment yesterday...Global assist my arse!
Thanks

[Lotz-A-Landies]

There are numbeous threads about Defender 130 chassis cracks.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/128950-chassis-cracking-failures-130s.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/101277-defender-chassis-welding.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/40662-defender-130-chassis-strength.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/32647-defender-130-a.html

[PAT303]

Hi All
My Defender 130 year 2010 with Puma 2.7 turbo diesel is 18 months old and still under warrantry. While fitting a reversing camera I noticed the chassis had a crack behind the cab infront of the bracket for the tray on the passenger side. I am now driving a hire car ( not happy ) after 3.5 hours sitting in the dealership while Landrover decided what to do! We are still in the air as to whether this is a warrantry job. The car has 38000km on it and is my daily drive to work on a tar road. The tray has only moved a lounge! The tray was dealer fitted before pickup to their specifications!
My question is has any one else been in this situation?
I love this car and was hoping it would be with me for the next 30-35 years and was purchased from new, but we have had problem after problem...which has been rectified under warrantry, but am appalled at Landrovers treatment yesterday...Global assist my ar..!
Thanks

Use a new dealer and explain why.Not getting answers on a new vehicle is BS.Send an email to LR HQ also,they should be made aware of bad dealer service. Pat

[Scouse]

Use a new dealer and explain why.Not getting answers on a new vehicle is BS.Send an email to LR HQ also,they should be made aware of bad dealer service. PatUsing a new dealer will not help as the tray has nothing to do with them.

Stick with the selling dealer as they're the one who organised the tray fitment. The responsibilty for the chassis crack is on their shoudlers (no matter if LR pay it under warranty or not).

Getting another dealer involved will just slow down the repair.

[101RRS]

I didn't know that the Puma had a 2.7 in it. Is this just for the 130?

[Drover]

I didn't know that the Puma had a 2.7 in it. Is this just for the 130?


They don't, all PUMA's are 2.4L or for the new ones 2.2L

[Summiitt]

My 2010 130 single cab cracked on the front tray mounts behind the cab, the ute has a custom built heavy duty steel tray on it. The mounts supplied with the vehicle are, as I see it designed to hold up the rear floor on a dual cab and are not to be used for a tray top application. I contacted land rover and the truck body builders and basically told them to sort it out, at the end of it, the tray builders discarded the factory supports, made new tray mounts with a heavy block rubber spacer, 40,000km later and always loaded and all is good. Bottom line is that there Are a Number of mounts that can be used for tray mounting, but its up the the tray builder to build them to suit, trays are built for a price, you get what you pay for!hope this helps.

[newhue]

hmmmm got me curious. I have a 2010, with 41K on it. Better have a good look tomorrow and will report back.
I've done a fair bit of 4x4ing with 500 to 800kg in it. Used the canopy to lean on a tree or two so I'm hoping no cracks. I must have also carried 250kg the roof supported across the length of the car and 500kg in the back for work. Still no where near the vehicles limits.

If only a lounge has been carried in your 130 azureindi, just wondering if it a chassis fault, not a tray fitment issue.

[cal415]

Wow, its got me worried too, im about to do a 3 week trip fully loaded towing a camper to fraser island in my 2011 130, its a HCPU though. Hopefully it wont suffer any of these issues but no doubt i will be checking....

Any pics of the damage?

[alanw]

When welding up the cracked chassis on my 130DC it became very obvious that the steel on one side of the chassis was thinner than the other. You notice these things when welding....... And the side that cracked first and worst was the 'thin' side.

So suggest that it might be worth looking at steel thickness - partic. as you have not carried/towed heavy loads.

LandRover in their wisdom have a weld directly across the top of the 'stress point' in the chassis design - this is just behind the rear of the cab ( in a dual cab) where the chassis bends up to go over the rear suspension. If it has cracked at this point without heavy loads then is probably a faulty weld

My chassis cracked after abt 170K with lots of heavy loads and heavy towing and rather ordinary roads. And the fix was easy. Weld and plate. My probem was made worse by the tray design. I had got sick of welding up tray mounts on previous utes and made this tray more rigid. Next tray will have more 'flex' designed into the mounts. And i would look at reinforcing the 'stress point' when i build the tray.

The fundamental issue with dual cabs is the weight behind the back axle and the cracks start at the top of the chassis and work down. Might be different in single cabs.

And finally, fixing a cracked landrover chassis is very easy. Mild steel plate and normal mig welder wire and gas. And a can of chassis black paint.

alanw

[azureindi]

I didn't know that the Puma had a 2.7 in it. Is this just for the 130?


Whoops it's a 2.4

[azureindi]

Day 2 in our nightmare continues.
LR are loosing their shine with me...customer service not.
Thanks for all your advice.
We are sticking with our local dealer as they sold and recommended the tray...read "this is what we do...like it or leave it!

[101RRS]

Is the actual chassis cracked or is it the brackets that the tray is secured too? Any pics?

[azureindi]

Is the actual chassis cracked or is it the brackets that the tray is secured too? Any pics?


It's the chassis
The vehicle is at the dealers 1.5 hours drive away...so convenient.
haven't taken my own pictures as didn't think it would be a drama

[101RRS]

Thanks - definitely a selling dealer issue to sort out for you.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The NSW RFS had 130s as rapid response vehicles and in the end the weight and loading issues on the chassis resulted in the RFS issuing an edict that the 130s were not to have a crew and water at the same time. So the crew travelled in a troopy and the water in the 130s and soon after most 130s went out of service.

[wrinklearthur]

When welding ----fixing a cracked landrover chassis is very easy. Mildsteel plate and normal mig welder wire and gas. And a can of chassis black paint.
Hi alanw

Don't do as some have done and forget the wiring loom inside the chassis while the welding is being done.

On mine which is a 110 by the way, the crack I had to deal with, was where the outrigger for the back of the cab, meets the bottom on the side on the chassis.

That crack was there when I brought my Land Rover, with about 200,000 Klm's on it at the time, looking at it and the fact that I had to replace the badly squashed seat cushion on the drivers side, I reasoned that the PO was large in body and the corrugations took their toll.

Using a bit of 16 gauge wire, I fished around through one of the holes drilled in the side of the chassis, until I snagged the loom and then used that wire to hold the loom in the middle of the box section until the metal had cooled.
.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi azureindi

There is enough evidence here already, that there is a design issue that has to be addressed by Land Rover.

The maximum tray overhang is a measurement given to Dealers by Land Rover.
To build any special equipment on the chassis and if while doing so this measurement has been exceeded by the manufacturer of the tray, then the warranty is the responsibility of that tray builder IMHO.
.

[ugu80]

The NSW RFS had 130s as rapid response vehicles and in the end the weight and loading issues on the chassis resulted in the RFS issuing an edict that the 130s were not to have a crew and water at the same time. So the crew travelled in a troopy and the water in the 130s and soon after most 130s went out of service.

I bought an ex Shoalhaven RFS 130 and its been a beauty.

[isuzurover]

Day 2 in our nightmare continues.
LR are loosing their shine with me...customer service not.
Thanks for all your advice.
We are sticking with our local dealer as they sold and recommended the tray...read "this is what we do...like it or leave it!

I would take a trip out there with a camera.

If they ask why, tell them it is so you can write to LR head office (and/or get independant advice from an automotive engineer).

[101 Ron]

The NSW RFS had 130s as rapid response vehicles and in the end the weight and loading issues on the chassis resulted in the RFS issuing an edict that the 130s were not to have a crew and water at the same time. So the crew travelled in a troopy and the water in the 130s and soon after most 130s went out of service.

The issuse was overloading GVM/insurance. wise and not the chassis.
It is a issuse with other RFS vehicles, like some cat 7 vehicles that cannot carry a full crew .

[rick130]

Hi azureindi

There is enough evidence here already, that there is a design issue that has to be addressed by Land Rover.

[snip]
.

Why would they bother doing that when 127's and 130's have been cracking in the same frigging spots since inception ?

and HCPU's do it too, it isn't just tray backs.

[azureindi]

Why would they bother doing that when 127's and 130's have been cracking in the same frigging spots since inception ?

and HCPU's do it too, it isn't just tray backs.

Four whole days and no word from LR
If only I had researched more...thanks everyone for the replies
Nice of LR to know about this, but not rectify the problem and when there is an issue show total disregard for the person/family that bought it!

[rick130]

Four whole days and no word from LR
If only I had researched more...thanks everyone for the replies
Nice of LR to know about this, but not rectify the problem and when there is an issue show total disregard for the person/family that bought it!

Don't stress too much, it won't snap in half and totally fail, it just ****es me off that land Rover have never addressed the issue properly.

Mines still cracked after ten years and a constant GVM of 3000kg and the cracks have never propagated any further than they were ten years ago.

[uninformed]

Is it possible to drill a hole at the end of the crack?

[wagoo]

Is it possible to drill a hole at the end of the crack?
It's just the chassis structure stress releiving itself, just like my firewall does at the 'hip'. i've welded it numerous times and it just cracks again just above or below the weld.
Bill.

[Davo]

109" chassis are known for cracking as well. There's a spot where on the outsides of the rails there are two outriggers, (holding up the front of the backbody, if I remember it right), and holding the rails together, just behind these outriggers but on the insides of the rails, is a crossmember. This leaves a couple of inches of chassis rail that can't flex with the outrigger on one side and the crossmember on the other. So it's not new.

Anyway, you should try getting very tough very quickly with the dealer because as long as you put up with the crap, they'll dish it out. I've learned from various disputes that you need as much evidence as you can possible record, no matter how inconsequential it may seem, and you need to log everything that happens as well. You also need to very clearly spell out what is wrong and what you want done about it, without getting carried away at all. (Always keep your cool!) Give them a certain time to fix it, then go above their heads and keep at those people constantly. You don't need to be aggro at all, just calm, reasonable, and clearly not about to give up.

It's quite a skill and they should teach it in schools! (Er, on second thought, maybe not!)

[George130]

Ring them and ask when will the refund be deposited in your account as the vehicle is clearly not fit for the purpose they sold it to you for. This will either get them moving or put them totaly off side.
Should have said if the dealer is being reasonable then so should you. Just guessing that they are being dificult.

[wally]

Tell them to just plate it up and give it back to you - it's not a big deal. I had a trayback 110 that did the same. I just tacked it up but plating it is obviously better.

[azureindi]

LR have said its not their problem as they didn't fit the tray. The Dealer is now repairing the chassis and having the tray changed so this will not happen again I think as I only found this out by ringing every day. The dealer has not once kept me up to date or in the loop. Today would have been the eighth day with out any answers if I had not rung. They did ask if I wanted to trade it in...on what and how much money was I going to loose!

I will not ever be able to recommend LR, very disappointed:(

[isuzurover]

LR have said its not their problem as they didn't fit the tray. The Dealer is now repairing the chassis and having the tray changed so this will not happen again I think as I only found this out by ringing every day. The dealer has not once kept me up to date or in the loop. Today would have been the eighth day with out any answers if I had not rung. They did ask if I wanted to trade it in...on what and how much money was I going to loose!

I will not ever be able to recommend LR, very disappointed:(

If I were you I would get an approved automotive engineer to inspect the repair and provide a report. No good if you get in trouble down the track with the RTA. Also - what has it done to your resale value (if the repair is obvious)???

Also - check all the rear lights/electrics function properly after repair, to make sure they haven't burnt the loom while doing the repair.

[wrinklearthur]

The snobbery of that dealer leaves me astounded and I think the way you are being treated by that dealer is disgusting. What is wrong with those characters?

Have they have forgotten that the best advertising is, word of mouth and the rule is, the customer is always right.

Tell that dealer that you want to take your Land Rover straight over to another 4WD agent, where you will be asking for a trade in price on a new vehicle and get the likes of ACA to record the show.

Then let us know if the dealer calls your bluff .

[rar110]

Tell them to just plate it up and give it back to you - it's not a big deal. I had a trayback 110 that did the same. I just tacked it up but plating it is obviously better.

I agree. It shouldn't happen but plating it in the same spot both sides will make it stronger.

As Isuzurover says remind them (record to protect your interests) or specifically tell them that they need to ensure the wiring within the chassis is protected before the chassis is welded. Again remind them about the cost /labour involved in a new loom.

I don't thinking LRA can legitamitly abdicate responsibility when their agent sells an accessory with a new vehicle that's not fit for purpose. See the ACCC website on goods that are not merchantable quality.

Goods and services sold before 1 January 2011 - implied warranties and conditions (http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/8818)

I successfully argued this point when the induction stove became defective 6 mths after manufacturing warrantee expired. After weeks of discussions they "realised" the stove had a 3 year warranty and they installed a new stove. I just smiled and nodded.

[lardy]

Fit for purpose is the watch word suggest to your state trading standards office that you have purchased a substantially expensive vehicle that is not fit for purpose they should stand your corner and enquire on your behest getting land rover to pull their fingers out ...one would hope


Sent from my iPhone using Telepathy

[azureindi]

Thanks to all for your interest, it is now some time since this issue transpired, have had the 130 for 4 and a half years now I still love it. The fault with chassis was put down to how the tray was mounted to the chassis, dealer refitted using land rover brackets to front of tray / rear of cab mounting, this to me seems too light to me for a tray that is rated for 1.3 tonne, But I noticed that the other new stock defenders 130 in dealership yard have similar mounting as my refitted tray. Seems to have fixed the cracking chassis but for the record I list the following faults that occurred during the warranty period that had to be rectified.
Cracked chassis
Steering damper broke (twice replaced)
Air con was not gassed @ factory
Front door seals (doors tore holes in them when closed) modify brackets
Inlet manifold leaking oil and fumes (done twice and still leak's fumes)Windscreen wipers stoped working (dash had to come out)
Rear window lock (broken from new)
A pillar came away from roof (still leaks)
Central locking began activating at any time driving or not alarms going off all hours of the day / night ( new actuator in drivers door)
Rear seat box and rear cab wall came apart (could see the road from inside cab)
Every nut and bolt on passenger side of cab floor seat mounts etc was only hand tight
Still so many squeeks and rattles that I turn the radio up so not to hear,
Then 3 months out of warranty I was going to work one morning and the heater would not warm up, on arrival checked under bonnet found globs of sump oil in radiator top up bottle, freaked out thinking head gasket or worse, as a new motor is about $10,000. NRMA came towed away turned out to be a blown oil cooler $1340.00 later,
Just a note I also have a 1989 Toyota hilux I have had since 1 year old it now has 503,000 KLM on the clock never let me down, ever. Motor never touched except for timing belt changes the alternator has been done twice, I would take it to the Sahara but honestly I would not tempt fate and take my Landy to the city etc. still love it though.

[wrinklearthur]

"faults that occurred during the warranty period that had to be rectified."

Cracked chassis; "The fault with chassis was put down to how the tray was mounted to the chassis"
Steering damper broke (twice replaced); I would like to know what the problem is that broke those?
Air con was not gassed @ factory; Dealer pre' and post delivery not carried out correctly.
Front door seals (doors tore holes in them when closed) modify brackets; Warranty.
Inlet manifold leaking oil and fumes (done twice and still leak's fumes);Warranty.
Windscreen wipers stopped working (dash had to come out);Warranty.
Rear window lock (broken from new);Warranty.
A pillar came away from roof (still leaks);Warranty.
Central locking began activating at any time driving or not alarms going off all hours of the day / night ( new actuator in drivers door);Warranty.
Rear seat box and rear cab wall came apart (could see the road from inside cab);Warrenty.
Every nut and bolt on passenger side of cab floor seat mounts etc was only hand tight;Dealer pre' and post delivery not carried out correctly.

[Bushie]

"faults that occurred during the warranty period that had to be rectified."

Cracked chassis; "The fault with chassis was put down to how the tray was mounted to the chassis"
Steering damper broke (twice replaced); I would like to know what the problem is that broke those?
Air con was not gassed @ factory; Dealer pre' and post delivery not carried out correctly.
Front door seals (doors tore holes in them when closed) modify brackets; Warranty.
Inlet manifold leaking oil and fumes (done twice and still leak's fumes);Warranty.
Windscreen wipers stopped working (dash had to come out);Warranty.
Rear window lock (broken from new);Warranty.
A pillar came away from roof (still leaks);Warranty.
Central locking began activating at any time driving or not alarms going off all hours of the day / night ( new actuator in drivers door);Warranty.
Rear seat box and rear cab wall came apart (could see the road from inside cab);Warrenty.
Every nut and bolt on passenger side of cab floor seat mounts etc was only hand tight;Dealer pre' and post delivery not carried out correctly.

I think the issue is though, that whether they were fixed under warranty or not, most shouldn't have occurred in the first place.


Martyn

[wrinklearthur]

I think the issue is though, that whether they were fixed under warranty or not, most shouldn't have occurred in the first place.

If that was mine I would also be questioning why that list was as long as it was.

Was the dealer rushing to get the vehicle out the door instead of doing thorough predelivery checks ?

We will wait and see if this list was dealt with fairly under warranty.

http://www.privatefleet.com.au/glossary/what-is-a-predelivery-inspection/
.

[Scouse]

If that was mine I would also be questioning why that list was as long as it was.Believe me, that's not a long list.