D3 aftermarket shocks

[scarman]

Hi all, A mate of mine has a D3 and is chasing after market shock does any one know if they are avaible and where can you get them. I know that belisten make them, but we have heard they leak. You thoughts on this would be great. Cheers

[NomadicD3]

Hi Scarman, If you do a seach on the site you will find a few threads about this topic. Now that said, koni FSD shocks are made to suit the D3 and both myself and TerryO (another member) have had them fitted recently and we both swear by them. Mine were fitted by Ritters in melbourne and TerryO had his done by capital suspension in the ACT. The set wil cost nearly $3000 fitted but it is well worth the $$$. Personally I've just done 4500k's in tasmania on their famous windy roads and the cars handling was superb.
regards

[400HPONGAS]

Not sure if TerryO is still that happy with his Koni FSD's .$3000 fitted WTF ? Try $2000 supplied and fitted at the most ! Yep ,Bilstein are having trouble with front shocks .Mates having rear Bilsteins fitted for $1000 next week in Perth. He was advised not to fit front shocks of either he Koni or Bilstein brand , YET ,or until they bring out new corrected batches .

[justinc]

Yes, my advice based on actual experience is JUST WAIT, or fit another set of Delphi OE units.

JC

[TerryO]

Yes, my advice based on actual experience is JUST WAIT, or fit another set of Delphi OE units.

JC


x2 ...for now anyway.

cheers,
Terry

[Owl]

Yes, my advice based on actual experience is JUST WAIT, or fit another set of Delphi OE units.

JC


x2 ...for now anyway.

cheers,
Terry

What is the problem with the aftermarket shocks - you raved about them early on Terry?

Mine will need to be replaced soonish!

[TerryO]

Mine were truly excellent for just over the first 5k but not so good now. Justin and I are going down the path of talking to the supplier to find out about warranty.

Anyway enough said for now.

cheers,
Terry

[Geedublya]

The bilstiens are a no go for the front, I just killed my second set (they last about 10k before failing).
I'm in the middle of having Konis installed so this is bad news indeed.

I might have to call them and get OEM installed instead.

[jonesy63]

Has anyone tried putting D4 shocks on their D3? :idea:

(I know Graeme went the other way, to get a softer ride).

[Graeme]

I can't see why D4 shocks wouldn't fit a D3. There is a minor difference in spring seat height (not more than 5mm) which I suspect was fine tuning spring softness, perhaps to go with the firmer D4 shocks. I'm likely to temporarily refit the D4 rears for loaded outback trips because there is quite a difference and the rears are sufficiently quick to change.

[Mike_S]

Pleased I went OEM now for my full replacement set, very nearly had the Billies fitted until realising how cheap I could get a full set of new OEM dampers/airsprings ready built.

For reference, it's about £1k for a full set from the UK

[Geedublya]

Had a new set of OEM struts installed instead of the Konis. So now I have OEM front and Bilstein rear. And a full set of Konis in a box.

Good news is that I got my 20K old front airsprings back. So hopefully when Koni sort out their stuff I can make up some struts and install them.

Bad news is that the OEM dampers don't have anywhere near the control of the bilsteins when they are working.

I just couldn't afford the hassle of having another set of dampers/dampeners fail, so far the car has been off the road a total of 5 days with all the changing out of them.

Heasmans told me the OEM struts where more expensive than the Bilstein dampers so I'm guessing they were around the $1000 mark at trade prices.

[101RRS]

Bad news is that the OEM dampers don't have anywhere near the control of the bilsteins when they are working.


I was going to ask what is wrong with OEM in view of the issues that aftermarket shocks have but I just saw your post.

I have now covered 60,000km in my RRS and have absolutely no issues with them at all.

So what are the other issues with OEM that would make you use short lived expensive aftermarket shocks. I know D2s are also having with Bilsteins - in fact some have physically broken in the spring tower and caused damage to the rest of the suspension.

Garry

[TerryO]

Unless you have driven a D3/4 etc with Koni's fitted when they are working well then you don't really know how good your Disco can handle and ride the bumps. The old saying of 'ignorance is bliss' springs to mind when it comes to standard OEM shocks.

Are the Koni's expensive? No not really. Should they be short lived? No not at all and that is what needs to be sorted with the supplier.

If it can be sorted and it comes down to us having a bad batch and they can supply with confidence a longer lasting set with the same suspension specs then I will be first in line to get another set.

When they are behaving like they should they are truly that good. ...:D

cheers,
Terry

[Geedublya]

So what are the other issues with OEM that would make you use short lived expensive aftermarket shocks. I know D2s are also having with Bilsteins - in fact some have physically broken in the spring tower and caused damage to the rest of the suspension.

Garry

When I first bought my Bilsteins I was unaware of any issues with longevity. I decided on the Bilsteins as they have a great reputation for building quality dampers and they are a gas charged monotube. I have some experience with suspension due to my off road motorcycle background and think the monotube design is superior for this application.
My previous experience with dampers is that OEM is usually built to a price and since I drive my vehicle every day I wanted the best suspension I could get.
If Bilstein could resolve the problem with the front dampers I would much prefer to have them as the ride and control is much better than OEM.

[Mike_S]

I seriously considered the Koni FSD's & Bilsteins, especially after reading Terry's reviews when they were first installed. Having read all the failures of Billies etc from about 2 years ago, reasoning that they must've been fixed by now I was prepared to give them a go. My car's covered 72,000 miles (116k) and the rears were certainly shot to bits so the fronts can't have been that far behind. I wanted all this done before shipping it out here and I think reading this thread I made the right choice now.

Weighed up the costs of each option and eventually plumped for a complete new OEM set, as these can be bought fully built with new springs for not much more than the dampers alone, thus saving the labour costs for swapping the airbags over. Given that I'd read of a few failures of front Bilsteins we (my service chap & me) didn't want the hassle of potential warranty claims if they did fail and he wasn't getting good vibes from Bilstein anyway when he mentioned the failures we'd read about.

For reference, Koni FSD's were £600 a set, Bilstein B6's a little over £700 and OEM were £750 (dampers only, not airbags as well). To build them of course entails stripping down the old struts, reusing the bags and buying the new seal kits, which from memory were about 11 quid each. The time and labour costs to strip down & rebuild the new struts was 4-6hrs, as against just bolting up a new strut, so that cost was also factored in when the decisions were being made.

Service agent shopped around and got the complete struts, rears from Andy @ P38 Spares for £197 each, the fronts came from his local main dealer, Sturgess Land Rover at £257 each. Of course I had to pay VAT on them as well, so add another 20% onto that. Buying the dampers & springs separately costs more than just buying a complete ready built strut....

There's the saving in labour for not stripping down the old struts, along with replacing anything else found to be knackered. I believe the front top mounts were found to be U/S on mine, as well as a couple of the bags showing signs of cracking / splitting from mud, so going for complete new struts was definitely the best way forward. The old struts have been kept in the UK.

For interest only, Rimmers have just started selling the complete units, aftermarket but cheaper still and moreso at the moment as they're on offer. Wouldn't surprise me if they're made by Delphi anyway.

Much as I'd loved to have tried the Billies or Konis (having had great success with them on various cars in the past) it doesn't really matter how much better than OEM they are if they fail in short order. It's easy to swap dampers when normal springs are involved, but bring in the airsprings and it's a whole new kettle of fish, not one I can be bothered with every 5 or 10k, the costs are too high. OEM may be compromised, but they seem to work.....

I've also only paid a labour rate of £35 an hour for my Landie specialist, I'd hazard a guess I'd be paying a tad more than that over here...

[Graeme]

It took me less than 15 minutes each to swap the airsprings from one shock to another which included cleaning off the dirt. The OEM shock packages also included new top seals.

[jz-is-fishing]

I've had the Konis on for about 4,000 miles, 6,000km. No worries yet. Purchased in the US. Hope the issues were just a bad batch.

Please let us know what you find on the shocks and or what Koni is willing to do. PM me if you like.

BTW replaced them myself, took a day. Not complicated but it is fairly heavy wrentch work. I posted a thread earlier re the fix. here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/141046-leaking-air-spring-koni-shock-install.html
Cheers

[Mike_S]

It took me less than 15 minutes each to swap the airsprings from one shock to another which included cleaning off the dirt. The OEM shock packages also included new top seals.

Mine were completely seized up, stripping them down will be a challenge...

[smwilk]

Guys I'm need of some new shocks, any update with the Koni issues ie were they just a band batch? Thx

[TerryO]

The Australian distributor called me Friday and was going back to the factory to discuss with them about batches etc.

He was fine to speak to and wants me to go back to the outlet that sold them to me so they can drive it etc, which I will when next in Canberra.

I don't see this resolving itself anytime soon though as I won't be down there for a week or so.

cheers,
Terry

[Tote]

Has anyone heard if Bilstein has sorted the issues on their shocks?
Atlantic British has them on special ATM
Land Rover - Parts, Accessories and Information (http://www.roverparts.com/ProductList.cfm?PartNumber=9558,9555,9557&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Bilstein+Shocks+for+LR3+and+LR4+Now+Avail able+-+R60G&utm_campaign=R60G+-+Performance+Lighting+Specials+from+Hella+-+Save+Now+at+Atlantic+British)

Regards,
Tote

[~Rich~]

I was speaking to my mechanic about the Bilstiens yesterday, he mentioned they had fitted them to a couple of D3's and they are terrific on trips when the vehicle is loaded up both off road & cruising on highways. The only trouble is they are too firm around town.
He had the front Bilstiens replaced under warranty when they failed.

[justinc]

Just a quick update,

I have fitted a set of OEM strut assemblies to this vehicle in place of the konis and am waiting to hear from the importer about what the problem is. Very happy with their help and professionalism, as the customer bought them originally from a supplier, not from them directly but they seem to be VERY concerned, and will be keeping me in the loop. I will probably be buying my Koni 90 Raids and all other Koni products from them now I reckon after their conduct so far during this complex issue.

The OEM strut units (With airbags already assembled) are unbranded except for 'Made in UK', but are identical to the OE Delphi units in appearance, (also made in UK) and significantly cheaper. They also feel like a new car does, so my assessment is that they ARE from Delphi.

JC

[~Rich~]

Just a quick update,

I have fitted a set of OEM strut assemblies to this vehicle in place of the konis and am waiting to hear from the importer about what the problem is. Very happy with their help and professionalism, as the customer bought them originally from a supplier, not from them directly but they seem to be VERY concerned, and will be keeping me in the loop. I will probably be buying my Koni 90 Raids and all other Koni products from them now I reckon after their conduct so far during this complex issue.

The OEM strut units (With airbags already assembled) are unbranded except for 'Made in UK', but are identical to the OE Delphi units in appearance, (also made in UK) and significantly cheaper. They also feel like a new car does, so my assessment is that they ARE from Delphi.

JC
Hi JC, where did you purchase these shocks from and what was the price of them and fitting costs please.

[400HPONGAS]

Looking at those Atlantic supplied Bilsteins , what exactly do they mean by "ACE equipped Vehicles" Maybe something to do with whether its a Coiler or air suspension perhaps ?

[Geedublya]

They are talking about Discovery 2 (Active cornering enhancement).

[Tote]

Dont some RRS also have a version of ACE? The shocks are advertised for them as well.

Regards,
Tote

[400HPONGAS]

Yeah,Geedubly,thats well known (ACE SLABs in a D2) ,but why are they mentioning it in relation to a LR3/4? Never heard of it on a RRS , maybe the RR ?? or is it just silly Septics screwing it up ?

[101RRS]

Yeah,Geedubly,thats well known (ACE SLABs in a D2) ,but why are they mentioning it in relation to a LR3/4? Never heard of it on a RRS , maybe the RR ?? or is it just silly Septics screwing it up ?

Not sure whether it is standard or an option but the RRS has an ACE system fitted to the front suspension (i think).

"Dynamic Response incorporates active electro-hydraulic anti sway bars which react to cornering forces and activate and deactivate accordingly resulting in sublime on-road handling. Dynamic Response also aids off-road performance by decoupling the anti-sway bars to allow maximum wheel articulation. The system in an evolution of the acclaimed ACE (Active Cornering Enhancement) system available on the Disco 2 but is described as proactive rather than reactive.

Garry

[400HPONGAS]

Hmm! Front suspension you think ? Surely you must be able to see the anti-rollbar controllers if its got the old D2 style of ACE.Are you saying you own a RRS , but dont know whether it has some sort of ACE system or not ?
The ad blurbs says that the "Dynamic Pack" is an option on the SDV6 and standard on the the V8 supercharged. They descibe it as "Adaptive Dynamic and Dynamic Response" .Sound like a uprated DSC to me !!
Gordon should know whats in a RRS !!

[101RRS]

I cannot speak for a D3 but the handbook for the RRS is a generic document covering all vehicles and all mods rather being applicable to my specific vehicle so - no I do not know if I have it on my vehicle - it is not something that is switched on or off. I thought I had Bi Xenons as standard for 6 months until I found out I did not.

I suspect it is an option.

Garry

[gghaggis]

The Dynamic handling pack is an option on the RRS 2010 onwards, for the diesel and the non-supercharged V8 (I think?). It is activated via the TR knob (that is, it is an additional Terrain Response setting). It changes throttle mapping, gearbox and the suspension settings for "spirited" driving. Is quite an eye-opener on the 5 ltr Supercharged model!

I'm not sure about the pre-2010 models.

Cheers,

Gordon

[400HPONGAS]

Thanks Gordon, but what about this "ACE" system ,does a RRS have something along these lines , or is it just this "Dynamic Pack" ?

[gghaggis]

I'm not familiar with the ACE system, so can't really comment. The RRS has two con-joined parts to the optional system. The dynamic response part adjusts the anti-roll bars (electrically controlled hydraulics) and the EAS to counter body roll. The adaptive dynamics part of the module puts the car's monitoring systems into high-sample mode (2ms sampling) to try and guess/predict the car's motion and the driver response.

Cheers,

Gordon

[101RRS]

Thanks Gordon, but what about this "ACE" system ,does a RRS have something along these lines , or is it just this "Dynamic Pack" ?

Here are some parts for it - indicates it is on the rear as well.

2007-2011 Range Rover Sport Sway Bar - ACE - Front (http://www.roverlandparts.com/2007-2011-range-rover-sport-sway-bar---ace---front.aspx)

2006-2009 Range Rover Sport Sway Bar - ACE - Rear (http://www.roverlandparts.com/2006-2008-range-rover-sport-sway-bar---ace---rear-supercharged.aspx)

Here are the same sway bars without ace

2006-2009 Range Rover Sway Bar (4.4L Sport) - Front - w/o Roll Stability (http://www.roverlandparts.com/2006-2009-range-rover-sway-bar-4-4l-sport---front.aspx)

2006-2009 Range Rover Sway Bar (4.4L Sport) - Rear - w/o Roll Stability (http://www.roverlandparts.com/2006-2009-range-rover-sway-bar-4-4l-sport---rear---w-o-roll-stability.aspx)

Looks like the activating mechanism is in the center of the roll bars and not actuators on the end.

See also Range Rover Sport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Graeme]

My understanding is that the bars are just either unlocked or locked.

[400HPONGAS]

I think that what garrycol has found , pretty well resolves it , RRS has a "ACE" system and it appears that D3/D4's do not !! Just got to agree on how/when/why it works !!
Then ,whats the difference in shock control/valving/sizing between the the non-ACE and the ACE shocks ?

[pohm66]

Had a search and couldn't see a definitive answer to whether or not Bilsteins for a D3 can be rebuilt and if so by whom?

Had one of the front ones fizz on me the other day.... probably been going for a while..... wondered why the Misses looked sea sick after the last couple of trips....:eek:

Cheers...

[400HPONGAS]

pohm66,didnt you read the bit about the recall on all front Bilsteins and Koni FSD's at the beginning of this thread . They are both currently trying to work out whether its a design issue or a Bad batch issue .Could only fit rear Bilsteins as no fronts available in Australia.

[pohm66]

Yep read it 400hpongas and it refers to buying new shocks.

My query is about rebuilds. I have one shock gone and would really prefer not to have to replace both.

I would gather having 2 different brand shocks up front being not desirable so back to my original question. Is the D3 Bilstein shock rebuildable?

Thanks...

[~Rich~]

I know "The Ultimate Suspension" in Sydney used to do them.
Shurly the Aust distributor can inform you on who is closest to you.

[Geedublya]

Yes, Bilstiens are rebuildable but the cost can be high, nearly as much as new ones.

[~Rich~]

Unless they are still under warranty ;)

[Geedublya]

In my experience, they don't bother I had 2 sets replaced.

[pohm66]

Thanks Rich, gave the guys a call as well as Sydney Shocks who basically said that the D3 Bilsteins are rebuildable BUT difficult to do due to special internal setups and they have had varying degrees of success. This work also means that the rebuild cost is marginal from new ones so why bother when you get better warranty with new.

The upshot is that I have ordered 2 complete Delphi setups (bag & shock) from Rovercraft, best price around. LRA quoted $900 a corner...... OUCH

[unseenone]

It would be nice to have a more definitive bit of information, or some direct acknowledgment from Koni if anyone has it. I am a bit concerned now, after reading this thread. I have a set on order.... Should I be cancelling that order I wonder now. In order to do that, I would have to have something more official than a vague rumor.

Thanks in Advance

[smwilk]

Me too!