Spat the dummy

[Porchy]

Well, the issues continue with the P(iece of crap)38.

After my replacement of the passenger side head gasket, the dramas associated with the block due to the previous butcher working on it and my stuffing around with the inlet to match the machined head face, the car was back on the road for a princely 2 weeks (bringing the total of drive time to 5 weeks since our November purchase) before it overheated and left the missus on the side of the road. Thankfully she is aware of the bigger issues with this happening and pulled over as soon as the gauge went up.

When my mate (a good mechanic) and I went to rescue it we found that the thermostat was not opening. We refilled the expansion tank and drove it back to his shop. I ordered a new thermostat and he put it in today for me. Yay!!! fixed......NOT.

I went for a drive of about 5 mins after warming it up today and it did it again. As well as that when I stop the coolant comes gushing out of the expansion tank overflow tube. Roughly 500 or so ml.

I thought that maybe it was an airlock that was the issue so I let it run with the cap off hoping to bleed the system. The thing that has done me in though is that if bleeding air there should not be continuous excessive bubbling in the tank leading to what can only be described as volcanic eruptions of coolant.

I spoke to my mate and he said to bring it back in being pretty sure that the OTHER bank's gasket has probably crapped itself.

I'm basically seeing if anyone has any ideas about what else it might be that is easier and cheaper to fix before he pulls it all down in the next day or two. I'm having him do this side if that's what it is because I am quickly getting over working on the pommy bus. As you can tell I am losing the love of the truck as is the boss who's car it is. It is a pretty sad situation when the 97 EL is an improvement for her.

Porchy

[Scouse]

They can be a pain to bleed properly sometimes. I've found I need to have the front of the car a lot higher than the rear to get the air out.

[Rupert Prior]

which year model do you have? 99 onwards are more difficult to bleed as you can get a huge air lock in the back of the thermostat that stops it from getting hot and so does not open. get most of the air out by opening up the smaller bore hose (same size as heater) to the thermostat and bleeding them manually and do the same with the heater (try getting the header tank as high as possible or use a tight fitting funnel). when it is running make sure the tell tail jet inside the filler neck is clear and working. the vacuum fillers do not work very well on rovers.
pre 99 just bleed out manually at the heater hoses and check the tell tail.

[Blknight.aus]

use the coke bottle fill method.
drill out the thermostat bleed hole to about 3/16th if you happen to have the one with the one way "jiggler" in it rip that out then drill the hole.

[p38arover]

use the coke bottle fill method.
drill out the thermostat bleed hole to about 3/16th if you happen to have the one with the one way "jiggler" in it rip that out then drill the hole.

Regrettably, the thermostat is inside a moulded housing down near the bottom of the radiator. I doubt one could drill out the jiggler hole. It might be possible to drill another hole.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1183.jpg

My car has had the thermostat moved to the conventional place in the head and this "sputnik" fitted to replace the original thermostat and housing:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/1184.jpg

We don't know what engine the poster has - GEMS or Thor.

[33chinacars]

On MY98 there was a small hose at the top of the header tank , driver side. Remove hose and blow through tube. Not sure what year you have so may be differnt.
Just looked at RAVE both have radiator bleed pipe. So all should be good. Its all decribed in Rave

Gary

[p38arover]

As Gary said, remove the bleed pipe and blow it through. I disconnect it at the radiator (be very careful not to break the nipple of the radiator top tank. Leave it off until, when filling the system, coolant starts to flow from the nipple.

[RR P38]

Sounding like a linner has shifted:(

[Porchy]

Hi Guys. Sorry about the lack of year in the original post. It is a 2000 Thor manifold engine. I will mention the bleeding techniques to my mate this morning when I drop it off. I was just concerned with the violence and level amount of air that it was a he said, a head gasket or worse (praying it isn't the liner mate because that's an engine out job isn't it).
Thanks for your replies fellas.

Porchy

[Pedro_The_Swift]

A procedure for bleeding the P38 is available in
The Good Oil,,,

look for "Refilling Radiators"

[Scouse]

If it's pressurising that quick, it won't be a liner problem causing your current problem.

[wayneg]

In addition to others comments, try and get the front of the car up higher that the rear.
My method of refilling coolant after draining is to remove top hose and fill rad and engine. Refit top hose and fill expansion tank. Run car for a few minutes, top up if you can and as soon as coolant starts to rise in the tank turn offf the car and leave for several hours. Refill expansion tank and repeat until tank level does not drop. Ensure the small pipe from the rad to the expansion tank is clear.
I just put a new water pump on mine ( THOR) and took a whole weekend to bleed to my satisfaction. A real pain

[Porchy]

Wow, I am soooooo hoping that it is a bleed issue guys. If that is the case I'll take the headache and do everything I can as suggested by you guys.

My mate is going to start with a chemical test on the expansion and check for unwanted gases. Hopefully he comes up with none and we just use the methods outlined.

Thanks again, I'll keep all those that are interested posted

Porchy

[wayneg]

Stick with it, The first time I Changed my coolant in my mind I had the engine liners slipped, block cracked heads warped and car ready for the scrap yard. That was before seeking advise from those in the know, not those who think they know!
What seems to happen if you follow my method is the coolant gets drawn into the engine as it cools so over a few goes it gets rid of the air. These were the directions given to me by peterjam a font of Land Rover knowledge.

[whisky_mac]

It may not be a motor out job. If the liner is not rattling up and down you may get away with chemi weld. Mine 1998 was trucked down to Perth from Carnarvon where we used a mates mechanic to do the work. He was not use to the RRs but agreed that we were getting a hydraulic log up and proceeded to remove the heads and sent them and the valley cover out to be machined. He then wanted to pull the block and swap it for another. I pointed out that there was no warranty on another block. After talking to a few people it was decided that I would ask him to put it back together and run some chemi weld in it. Drove it back from Perth without a drama and most are telling me that should have fixed the problem which is the porous material in the Block. Talking to a few in the trucking industry and they say it is widely used in the truck industry. I may be proven wrong but at this stage I will keep on driving it till it shows signs.

Jim

[Porchy]

The thing that has me thinking it might be something nastier than air in the system is that I drove it from Geelong to the other side of Melbourne after having put it all back together as well as plenty of driving around for a couple of weeks without any problem. Then, all of a sudden in a similar short trip around town and subsequently so, it is overheating and bubbling away.
Don't get me wrong but I would love for it to be something that simple.
Porchy.

[wayneg]

No that sounds like it could be something more involved. From what I read I thought the car was straight out of the garage after work.

My understanding was the car boiled over. The thermostat was stuck closed, You changed it for new, refilled coolant and still blowing coolant out.

[Porchy]

Unfortunately not Wayne. I wish. It sounds like another bit of dodgy work done by the previous owners mechanic.

The whole experience so far has been a fair nightmare. Facing the head caused (due to obvious previous machining) to have the intake hole not line up properly and require extra work, the bolt holes in the block needed to have inserts put in because the previous mechanic decided to put a couple of larger diameter bolts in with what must have been a rattle gun but the level of tension on the other bolts and the stripping of the thread in the block of the larger ones, hence causing the initial head issue.

Not a good introduction into the world of Rangie maintenance.

Porchy

[p38arover]

the bolt holes in the block needed to have inserts put in because the previous mechanic decided to put a couple of larger diameter bolts in
Porchy

Which bolts?

Hmm, any chance he cracked the block?

See JE Robison Service — the blog: The last word on Land Rover liner failures - I hope! (http://robisonservice.blogspot.com.au/2010/04/last-word-on-land-rover-liner-failures.html) and look at the head bolt hole.

[redandy3575]

Unfortunately not Wayne. I wish. It sounds like another bit of dodgy work done by the previous owners mechanic.

The whole experience so far has been a fair nightmare. Facing the head caused (due to obvious previous machining) to have the intake hole not line up properly and require extra work, the bolt holes in the block needed to have inserts put in because the previous mechanic decided to put a couple of larger diameter bolts in with what must have been a rattle gun but the level of tension on the other bolts and the stripping of the thread in the block of the larger ones, hence causing the initial head issue.

Not a good introduction into the world of Rangie maintenance.

Porchy

It's not your fault porchy, just another amateur mechanic doing things to a Range Rover engine that it wasn't designed for. I hope i don't ever run into that mechanic, he sounds unqualified, and a bit of a dumb so-and-so to me. Like i said earlier, P38 are vehicles that require knowledgeable service done to it that your average ultra tune type place cannot do.

[wayneg]

Hope you dont need one however there was a brand new 4.6 short motor in a crate for $2500 in WA Gumtree last week.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:Thump:

[Keithy P38]

Nobody has mentioned it so I will! Try a new radiator cap! Sounds to me like it's buggered...

[Porchy]

Well guys it's definitely a top end issue again. The problem we have is that (and I'm not sure if I mentioned this before) I have already had to modify the intake holes to match up with the head that I had fixed because again, the previous repairer had machined it a fair bit and a simple facing caused the mismatch of holes. This being said, my mate is concerned that any machining now may cause the intake to bottom out and not line up at all. I mentioned if I get some good secondhand heads that this could fix it. He said that we could but on the other side of it, we don't know how bad the block might be with how dodgy the previous repairs have been thus far.
My question for you knowledgable folk is, which heads/engines can I use as transplants? If I do an engine swap do I require an ECU swap too? CAn I upgrade to a 4.6 without too much hassle? Can I use any v8 from the 96-02 series?
Sorry, to ask all of these questions but I am still a pleb when it comes to these. I am just hoping that down the track I can return the help.

BTW the current engine is the 4.0 (non SAI as far as I know) in a 2000 P38

Thanks
Porchy

[redandy3575]

Well guys it's definitely a top end issue again. The problem we have is that (and I'm not sure if I mentioned this before) I have already had to modify the intake holes to match up with the head that I had fixed because again, the previous repairer had machined it a fair bit and a simple facing caused the mismatch of holes. This being said, my mate is concerned that any machining now may cause the intake to bottom out and not line up at all. I mentioned if I get some good secondhand heads that this could fix it. He said that we could but on the other side of it, we don't know how bad the block might be with how dodgy the previous repairs have been thus far.
My question for you knowledgable folk is, which heads/engines can I use as transplants? If I do an engine swap do I require an ECU swap too? CAn I upgrade to a 4.6 without too much hassle? Can I use any v8 from the 96-02 series?
Sorry, to ask all of these questions but I am still a pleb when it comes to these. I am just hoping that down the track I can return the help.

BTW the current engine is the 4.0 (non SAI as far as I know) in a 2000 P38

Thanks
Porchy

Not having much luck there Porchy, sounds to me the whole engine is completely 'So-and-So'd'. I'd almost say to buy another P38, and sell the other one of for parts, alternatively as you mentioned a good second hand 4.6 could be the go.

Just make sure that engine isn't 'so-and-so'd' also.:);)

[Porchy]

Haha, Don't worry Red, that has crossed my mind (getting another). The only problem is that I took a 16K loan to buy this one so I am kinda stuck with the latter option.

[mike 90 RR]

16K loan

Caught between a rock n, a hard place, eh :eek:



Have you got both heads ripped off?
Is your mate "Donating his time"?


You have given the thumbs down on this motor ... So rip both heads off and post up some decent photos of the bores, block, head and valley gaskets ... and see if the block, at least, is salvageable

Cheers
Mike

[DT-P38]

It all probably seems really daunting right now, but keep posting here as you progress. As you are already seeing, there are forum-ites out there who have parts, knowledge and trade/industry contacts that will be very helpful. Not sure exactly what I can help with but have owner history to share on the topic of rebuilds.

Personally, I have had a really good P38 journey since regularly jumping on and becoming a member at AULRO. I just wish I had known about it before my pigs liners slipped a number of years back. Would have made different (um, better) decisions.

[DT-P38]

FWIW, I was into my P38 for $35K when I had to make the hard decisions you are facing and am still very glad I stuck with her.

[Blknight.aus]

not sure if they'll fit but I have the heads from a 3.9 that blew the bottom end off, I dont typically do the V8s so havent checked them out, Ive also got 2x 3.5 heads here I can get the MK I's onto, drop me a PM if they will be any use to you.

[Porchy]

Dave, thanks so much for the offers. I apologise for not getting back to you.
It turns out that the engine was technically speaking "shot". There was a crack in the block due to the shonky repairs and it was blowing into the water galleries once it was warm and the crack opened up.

I spoke with Phil at Triumph Rover Spares in SA and he informed me that I needed to get the matching Bosch setup engine and as such I have had one delivered. He was extremely helpful in several matters and I can highly recommend them if you need anything.

It's now a matter of having it fitted and hopefully more than a couple of weeks of happy motoring.

Again, thanks soooo much for the offers of advice and help guys.

Porchy

[mike 90 RR]

He was extremely helpful in several matters

I hope that suitable head bolts was discussed ... ARP head studs appear to be a better prospect in the long term, rather than standard stretch bolts.


LINK.......
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/123609-fitted-arp-studs-my-3-9-v8-today.html

Cheers
Mike

[Porchy]

Thanks Mike. I have had a chat with a couple of people re studs and I reckon you are right. The best solution in the long run. I might have to drive it for a couple of months with the bolts though as we are in a fairly deep financial hole with the current repair as it is.

Cheers
Porchy

[mike 90 RR]

Thanks Mike. I have had a chat with a couple of people re studs and I reckon you are right. The best solution in the long run. I might have to drive it for a couple of months with the bolts though as we are in a fairly deep financial hole with the current repair as it is.

Cheers
Porchy

I know it is costly ... BUT I don't think that you can remove stretch bolts / insert studs ...and get away with it ... (Very costly method to do IMO)

Remember ... It is IMHO that the stretch bolts are part of the factors that lead up to engine failure from the start


Hate to see you spending so much $ and watch you set the motor up for failure .... :(


ARP studs are worth .. what? $120 .... (extra 60 odd dollars)

Talk to PhillipA ... Do a search on ARP studs on this site ....



Skimp on the price of petrol / and anything external of the motor .. but not the basics of what's got it all holding it together

Cheers
Mike

[bee utey]

Last edited by p38arover; 23rd February 2012 at 12:08 PM. Reason: deleted swearing doge

Hit man!:p:p:p

As for head bolts, used stretch bolts are bin material. If you HAD to stinge, a set of early head bolts would possibly be acceptable if you could steal a set off someone. ARP studs are highly recommended though, worth their cost.

[mike 90 RR]

I might have to drive it for a couple of months with the bolts though


As for head bolts, used stretch bolts are bin material.

:eek: ... Now I see, what Porchy wrote ... :eek:







Hit man!:p:p:p

:p

[Porchy]

Thanks for your concern guys.
The engine I am buying is a "good runner" that we are not pulling the heads off. Apparently it is good to drop in so the studs will come later. I definitely would not use old bolts (I'd like to think that I have at least that much common sense - that's not a go at your input just an observation on my own mechanical know how).

Also, I apologise for "dodging" the swear filter. I'll mind my frustrations and technical terminology[wink11] from now on.

Porchy

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Also, I apologise for "dodging" the swear filter.
Porchy



careful Porchy,,
Inc might offer you a job---;)
:p:p

[Porchy]

HaHa

[Porchy]

:D UPDATE :D

I just popped in to see the engine and see what I got from TRS for my 3300. Chuffed much?!

It looks like the engine has had a complete upper end cleanup or rebuild. Looking forward to getting her back hopefully next Wednesday.

WOO HOO

[redandy3575]

Thanks for your concern guys.
The engine I am buying is a "good runner" that we are not pulling the heads off. Apparently it is good to drop in so the studs will come later. I definitely would not use old bolts (I'd like to think that I have at least that much common sense - that's not a go at your input just an observation on my own mechanical know how).

Also, I apologise for "dodging" the swear filter. I'll mind my frustrations and technical terminology[wink11] from now on.

Porchy

SWEAR JAR!!! As long as you don't call people so-&-so's, and use so-&-so words, then the so-&-so language is fine by me.:angel:

Let us know when you eventually get the 'so-&-so' car on the road. I take it that the old motor is completely so-&-soe'd. ;)

[poleonpom]

Porchy,
I think you have shown remarkable constraint in your language considering the "off roading" your new and expensive P38 has recently done. If it were me, I'd have probably run out of anatomical words by now to express how I felt about it!

[Porchy]

My old engine is out and we are awaiting the new one being put in.

Here's a laugh for you boys.
It is always easier to remove an engine when the bellhousing is missing 2 bolts and the mounts don't even require a ratchet to undo.
Further proof that the previous mechanic is woeful!

I was doing my best not to name the mechanic but as a word of warning to all Land Rover lovers out there I'll do my best.

All I know is that this bloke was/is located around the Frankston area and has a name along the lines or JRR....... which I think was meant to be Jaguar/Range Rover specialist.

Cheers
Porchy

[Porchy]

:DIt's Alive!!!!!!:D

[wayneg]

Great news.

[mike 90 RR]

Enjoy ... and look after it :)

[redandy3575]

My old engine is out and we are awaiting the new one being put in.

Here's a laugh for you boys.
It is always easier to remove an engine when the bellhousing is missing 2 bolts and the mounts don't even require a ratchet to undo.
Further proof that the previous mechanic is woeful!

I was doing my best not to name the mechanic but as a word of warning to all Land Rover lovers out there I'll do my best.

All I know is that this bloke was/is located around the Frankston area and has a name along the lines or JRR....... which I think was meant to be Jaguar/Range Rover specialist.

Cheers
Porchy

Oh-ohhhh!!! i think i may have been to that same mechanic last service.:(

[33chinacars]

:DIt's Alive!!!!!!:D



:clap2::clap2::thumbsup::thumbsup: Well done

Gary

[Porchy]

Oh-ohhhh!!! i think i may have been to that same mechanic last service.:(

I hope you didn't. But if you did, go over everything he may have done because you are bound to be missing bits.

After further chatting with my mate when I picked up the bus yesterday, he told me that the starter motor bolts had been replaced with any old bolt that fit rather than the allen key bolts, making it a lot harder to remove. There were also bolts missing from the alternator bracket. Tops job!:mad:

My mate's work on the other hand is spot on and he isn't a "land rover specialist".

Cheers
Porchy

[poleonpom]

:DIt's Alive!!!!!!:D

:D FrankenRover :D

[Porchy]

Well, the dummy is well and truly back in the mouth.

The missus is Loving the bus again.

I just have a simple question (from a simple bloke). We are going camping this weekend and I will be towing the van with it. Should I be towing the van using the 4wd selection on the left or just in normal (highway) gears?

Cheers
Porchy

[DT-P38]

Use it as you normally would. Right side (high range) generally for on road, and left (low range) generally for off road.

In saying that, low range should really only be required for climbing up or down steep grades at lower speeds.

Sounds like you haven't done much off roading yet... you might want to read the owners manual about how to engage low (and back to high) and suggested conditions for when to do this.

If you want to get closer to how your p38 functions it would be a good idea to tag along on an AULRO drive day with some more experienced owners. And ask a lot of questions...

[wayneg]

Dont forget to lock the EAS when towing.

[Porchy]

Thanks for the reply mate. You are spot on. We have not done any offroading before and I just wasn't sure as I have heard that these babies town real easy like. However, when I brought the van home last night I could definitely tell it was on the back as I went up hills, and its not a big van. Would love to go on a run at some stage as the people on this site ROCK!! Porchy

[DT-P38]

If you aren't committed to the location for camping there is an AULRO Weekender at wombat state park this long weekend. You would be able to get some really good experience from it and pretty sure vans can get in easy. And the people are really nice/friendly.

Either way, have a good read of your owners manual before mucking around with high/low range too much... Not that you would hurt it, it basically just slows everything down in low range.

[Porchy]

All I know is that this bloke was/is located around the Frankston area and has a name along the lines or JRR....... which I think was meant to be Jaguar/Range Rover specialist.

Cheers
Porchy[/QUOTE]


I found a receipt for the RWC done on the car and it had the actual mechanics name on it. Again, I don't do this lightly, but with the disgusting mess that was made of our car it seems only fair to warn other Land Rover lovers. Now I am sure that some have had good dealings with this guy (as I have seen him recommended on other forums - for price but no mention of quality) but if you had seen the damage done to mine you would think twice about having him do anything that you can't actually see.



Cheers
Porchy

incisor: pm porchy for details if you must know...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Damn!
Inc beat me to it--

[redandy3575]

All I know is that this bloke was/is located around the Frankston area and has a name along the lines or JRR....... which I think was meant to be Jaguar/Range Rover specialist.

Cheers
Porchy


I found a receipt for the RWC done on the car and it had the actual mechanics name on it. Again, I don't do this lightly, but with the disgusting mess that was made of our car it seems only fair to warn other Land Rover lovers. Now I am sure that some have had good dealings with this guy (as I have seen him recommended on other forums - for price but no mention of quality) but if you had seen the damage done to mine you would think twice about having him do anything that you can't actually see.



Cheers
Porchy

incisor: pm porchy for details if you must know...[/QUOTE]

No nothing missing, but know a suspect mechanic when I hear or see one. Once bitten twice shy is my motto and never to return. In this day and age mechanics cannot afford to be complacent with customers as the customer wallet determines their income.