Full Airbag Suspension (all 4 corners) with In-Cab Controls ?

[Gav110]

I need a small lift at the front and rear to cope with winch/increase clearance plus extra weight from towing heavy trailer (300kg downball weight approx). I currently have LRA HD standard height springs on all 4 corners with Polyair helper springs in the rear.

Generally works very well, but as I have 33's and the extra 45L rear corner fuel tank, I sometimes get some minor rubbing on the tank at full articulation. The obvious options include adding spacers or getting slightly raised springs - all good - but having seen some pictures of some full airbag kits in the UK, I've been thinking....

Benefits of airbags - ability to level up front/rear and also side/side - which could be very handy on side slopes and off camber situations - especially with a load on the roof. Plus the ability to drop the height for loading and passenger entry. Comfort seems to be a factor too.

I also know the possible downsides - staking off road (punctures etc) and more complexity, but hundreds of thousands of trucks world wide and Disco 3/4, Rangie, Rangie Sports etc can't all be wrong...

I see Airbag Man now has a kit for 110 Puma but so far have been unable to contact them for info.

Questions:

- Has anyone done an all-4 wheel airbag conversion?

- If so, what are the results? Would you do it again?

- What in-cab control options are avail (e.g. Can all 4 corners be controlled independently for off road use)?

- Any commendations for shocks given the increased travel likely?

- Who is the best vendor/fitter? Any lessons learned?

*Please keep this thread focused on airbags* - I have read all the other threads dealing with the merits of coils vs airbags so please don't bother with posts exclaiming the benefits of coils - I just want airbag facts from people with real experience of them! Thanks, Gav

[slug_burner]

There are a few people on this forum that have replaced their steel springs with airbags.

here are some links that may help to find your answers

Firestone Air Bags, Firestone Air Springs - TruckSpring.com (http://www.truckspring.com/suspension-parts/firestone-air-bags.aspx)

I think RangierRover's thread will answer all your questions http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/105345-rangiers-isuzu-4bd1t-120-a.html the other person that has four corner suspension is rovercare and one other more recent, if I find them I will link them. Start around here (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/66265-120-extra-cab-40.html)on rovercare's looongish thread then you can work your way back or forward.


A google search of this site might provide you with some hits to threads that will answer your questions.as well.

how to perform google search just tell google search engine the site you want to sear followed by the words you want in youor searc e.g.,

site:www.aulro.com airbag suspension

[chook73]

I have not seen the airbag man controller (I am not sure they have one) but the best I have seen is the airbagit controller. I am actually looking at using it for a CTIS one day.

Upgrade To AB7000 Controller Reads Pressure Only With Purchase of Plug and Play Upgrades can only be added to a FBSS Airkit Purchase. Comes with 5 Presets (http://www.airbagit.com/product-p/upgrade-093-3.htm)

That link is for the pressure controller and the link below is for the ride height controller which is probably the one you want. Each corner is controlled individually and there are 5 presets available. Their systems have been recommended by a few people especially Wolfgang Tibus who is using them on his portal systems.

AB8000 Controller NEW STYLE Reads Height only. Digital Controls electronically read your preset heights, maintaining vehicle at that height regardless of load (http://www.airbagit.com/product-p/upgrade-093-4.htm)

You will need somewhere to mount the tank and I am currently looking into removing the centre silencer and diverting the pipe closer to the prop shaft in order to fit a tank in. From my quick calculation so far I should be able to fit a 3-4 gallon tank in easily and I have had some preliminary discussions with Alisport in the UK about custom building a larger tank (or dual tanks) that will fit the space better but haven't gone any further as I am still aways off having the money.

Also don't forget you will probably need a DC front shaft.

Regards
Iain

[PAT303]

The only thing I have against straight airbags is the slow speed harshness over speed humps etc,I'm going to fit them to my puma on the rear only. Pat

[Gav110]

Thanks guys - keen to see some more replies. Love the control panel with presets Chook73. I don't have the time to do the conversion myself, so if anyone knows of a good supplier who really knows their stuff (with Defender) please let me know.

If anyone knows anything about the demo Defender set up at Airbag Man (Airbag man (http://www.airbagman.com)) please let me know. Have a look at their home page - two videos of a Puma on air, but bizzarly these long videos show very little of real interest, like side/side and front/rear leveling capability, or proper Offroad articulation.

[Gav110]

Just a follow up - I spoke to the guys at Airbag Man - they are going to commission some new videos showing the real world benefits of the airbag set up on Defendder. According to them, you can expect far better comfort, and the durability of the bags is well proven, given the truck derivation of the bags.

Apparently the front bags for Defender are similar to RR spec - Dunlop units - due to the narrower diameter clearance. They use the Terrafirma twin shock mount system, needed due to the inability to fit the shock inside the airbag like the original coil over configuration. They are also working on their own version of the mount, but use TF mount at present.

For the rear they use Firestone bags. There are various travel / length options for both ends, with a 2" lift being standard, but lifts of 4" or more are possible.

Control options are vast - they can do simple static controls systems which ensure a set ride height with no intervention needed. You can also have full 4-corner independent control with gauges, and the preset style systems which allow you to set designated cruise, entry and Offroad heights. They also have a "horizon tracking" bolt on which allows the vehicle to level itself up regardless of terrain.

Costs - roughly $1k for front end, $1300 for rear end and varies for the control set ups - but allow for roughly $1200 for the more advanced options including an air tank and compressor.

Shocks - they normally fit Koni or Bilstein, and valve to application. They said I could simply revalve my Bilsteins or for marginally more, upgrade to big boy Koni Raids. My estimate for the system I need is $4.5-5k all in. That's obviously steep, compared with a full custom coil solution, but obviously we're talking about advanced benefits like side slope Offroad stabilisation, true heavy load and towing control and leveling, and better comfort - so I guess everyone will have their view on value.

If I win lotto or make some money and take the plunge, I will keep the group updated on what it's like! Gav

[flagg]

This is very relevent to my interests :)

Who in NSW or the ACT has airbags and has gone through rego? Engineer certs etc?

[PAT303]

Viair,the compressor makers do an airbag system,you might send them an email. Pat

[rovercare]

I spoke with Brett from airbag man alot when I did mine, he took the info of bottom piston position and info and I believe as an offset piston to work, I use an accuair controller, which has ride height sensors, it's used alot on high end hotrods, I wouldn't run 3/8 line like I did, as it's an abrupt shift when it alters height, wanky though:D

I'm going to fit restrictors, but 1/4 line would be ample, I still need to revolve my shocks as it's too harsh, it's a good system and although my ute is not used now for it's intended purpose, as a work hack the air is awesome, drop it to the bump stops to load stuff, I had a dude putting 2 packs of 90x45, 2.7 long timber on, when it dropped heavily on one side he refused to put the other pack on, I flicked on the ignition, it pumped itself up and I asked if he was happy now..... He loaded the second pack with a cackle

[cal415]

My setup is now coming along well too, Ive got some kit from airbag man, running there front kit they made as an experimental kit, they modified the lower terrafirma mount for longer shocks to fit, i think they decided this was overkill after they built this kit and sold it on to me cheap, the front shocks are something like 29-30in at full extension!

As for the back i bought some bags off them, along with other pistons to work out the longest possible bags, 1t14c-8 bellows with the straight pistons from a setup that had 1t14c-7 bellows, I got there mounting kit which fit ok with the top of the bag but had to do my own thing with the bottom. I also wasnt 100% happy with the top mount they do, i shortened it from 65-70mm to about 42-44mm to gain some more room for up travel, with the bottom, i had to re-drill the plates they gave me weld in some bolts to mount to the diff end, drill some holes for fitting to the piston base which had 2 bolt holes, for the bag itself i had to cut down the bottom stud so it didn't protrude out the bottom plate, i made up a spacer out of some tube and bolted to the piston using the cut down stud.

For the controller i run an accuair too, its great, i also run 3/8 lines and i actually like the speed of it but it can be a bit touchy for small adjustments when manually setting the height, i have yet to hook up the self leveling side of things, i also have remotes to set the height from outside the vehicle which is pretty cool i also have heard about a new thing they are working on to use your iPhone as a remote control for it using wifi! all very wanky!

This setup is great, cant fault the ride of the rear, but the front can be a bit harsh at high speed over small fast bumps, off road its fine, just the on road high speed. This is likely due to the small diameter bag running a higher pressure. being able to drop the height has already been handy on several occasions, as well as jacking it up to 4in lift off road being a nice feature too :)

I would probably recommend running the 3/8 line for durability, i have some of the smaller poly air tube stuff for other things and the double insulated stuff that i got with the controller is way tougher. I got the controller, twin compressors, tank, lines, sensors, tap and quick release fitting for air tools etc etc etc etc all from air ride suspension, Glenn there helped me with all this and i was very happy with his service and price, we added a ton of options and it barely changed the price!

I have pics of all this, i will post them up at some stage in my build up thread, just wanted to get it all working first.

[PAT303]

I'll be keen on reading about it because I don't see the point in fitting airbags inside the springs instead of straight airbag suspension. Pat

[isuzurover]

...

Costs - roughly $1k for front end, $1300 for rear end and varies for the control set ups - but allow for roughly $1200 for the more advanced options including an air tank and compressor.


...

My setup (rear only) cost me ~$400 all up.

[uninformed]

has anyone contacted, or tried to, the guy in WA that came up with the Kenetic suspention...Im curious to know if he still does vehicle mods :confused:

[slug_burner]

has anyone contacted, or tried to, the guy in WA that came up with the Kenetic suspention...Im curious to know if he still does vehicle mods :confused:

Sold the rights so not likely, he has moved on to other things now.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Anyone know of someone who sells a 3 axle controller?

[TimNZ]

Anyone know of someone who sells a 3 axle controller?

Is this what you mean? (It's bolt on for a Jeep, but the idea should be the same)

Welcome to the new home of Off Road Only! (http://www.offroadonly.com/products/suspension/airock/)

Cheers,

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Is this what you mean? (It's bolt on for a Jeep, but the idea should be the same)

Welcome to the new home of Off Road Only! (http://www.offroadonly.com/products/suspension/airock/)

Cheers,No that is a 3 mode system for 2 axles (4X4) I'm looking for a 3 mode system for 3 axles (6X6) with manual over ride or programmable to allow the rear 2 axles to load share by connecting each side's bags together when off road effectively making a selectable 2 and 3 axle system.

[isuzurover]

Anyone know of someone who sells a 3 axle controller?

Personally, I would use a 4x4/2 axle system, with the rear pairs of wheels on the same side permanently connected. I cannot see any downsides to doing it this way???

[PAT303]

My setup (rear only) cost me ~$400 all up.
We should talk over a beer or three next time I'm in Perth. Pat

[cal415]

I agree with Ben, pairing the rear bags on each side would work well as they are close together, and would probobly help the rear articulation over rocks etc, the other option is to run something like the accuair for rears only and go manual on fronts, or run dual accuairs, one for rears and one for fronts but it would cost you a fortune.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Personally, I would use a 4x4/2 axle system, with the rear pairs of wheels on the same side permanently connected. I cannot see any downsides to doing it this way??? on which axle would you put the sensor?

Particularly when climbing over rock steps.

[isuzurover]

on which axle would you put the sensor?

Particularly when climbing over rock steps.

I don't think it would matter, as long as they were on the same axle.

[uninformed]

Sold the rights so not likely, he has moved on to other things now.

Yeah I knew hey sold the rights etc, but in the interview regarding his new concept (the independant sprung boat) they touched on the kenetic stuff and he was driving around in his Jeep, with kenetic stickers on it. I kinda figured if he had nothing to do with it, He would not be able to be affiliated with it at all now :confused:

Maybe I should try and find his details :D

[cal415]

bit of a late reply, but if you did the rear in pairs on a 6x6 it wouldnt matter which axle you ran the sensors on, as for an off road situation, you would typically have the automatic height adjustment disabled in this situation, no point trying to level the suspension when your flexed up....