Wheels

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,
This is a beginners question - will standard Defender steel wheels/tyres fit on a 61 Series 2? Is the stud pattern the same?
My Series 2 has 7.50 16" - standard I believe?
Thanks,
The Grey Ghost.

[drifter]

I have Disco D1 wheels on my 2a

[JayBoRover]

My "DeeDee" S2a came to me with 15" Sunraysia Trak II type white spoked steel wheels and they were fitted with 31R15 tyres. Luckily it also had a power steering system grafted on (hydraulic ram bolt arm affair). When I decided to try and get DeeDee back to a more original state I hunted for some correct part number S2a wheels. It took me ages to get a set together and you still see occasional ad's for them in the "wanted" section - not the "for sale section". IMHO, do yourself a favour and proudly use the standard wheels if you have them.
Other than that, I know the Disco Series 1 wheels fit on the S2a but not the later series of Disco.
Cheers
John B

[p38arover]

This is a beginners question - will standard Defender steel wheels/tyres fit on a 61 Series 2? Is the stud pattern the same?

Yes, and yes.

I have Defender wheels on my IIA.

[grey_ghost]

Hi All,

I do want to keep the original wheels - to keep the car as original as possible.

I only ask because I spotted at set of 8 defender wheels (including tyres) on ebay:
8 x land rover defender wheels and tires | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/8-x-land-rover-defender-wheels-and-tires-/190639513822?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c630020de#ht_500wt_1212)

I thought to myself "buy the wheels for the roadworthy, use them until the tyres are no good, then keep them as spares or sell them off".

But didn't want to waste time or money if they don't fit!

Thanks for the help everybody.

Regards,
The Grey Ghost.

[JDNSW]

The same stud pattern is used on all Series Landrovers, Rangerover Classic, Discovery 1, 90/110 and Defender.

Hence all wheels in general are interchangeable - but some Rangerover steel wheels and some Rangrover and Discovery alloy wheels will not fit more sticking out hubs on the Series Landrover, or even 90/110. (but possibly later Defender). Also, I seem to remember hearing that some alloy D1/Defender wheels will not fit either drum braked 90/110/Defender or Series, because the wheel fouls the drums.

However, all steel Defender wheels fit all Series Landrovers. Offset of the standard Defender wheels is slightly different to the standard Series wheels, but unless I am mistaken they were used on Series 3 in some markets.

For completeness, all Post Classic Rangerovers, D2,3,4, Freelander and 101 use different stud patterns, I think the Rangerovers and Discoveries are the same as each other, but interchangeability is not as good, as brakes are very close to wheels on some models.

John

[numpty]

The same stud pattern is used on all Series Landrovers, Rangerover Classic, Discovery 1, 90/110 and Defender.

Hence all wheels in general are interchangeable - but some Rangerover steel wheels and some Rangrover and Discovery alloy wheels will not fit more sticking out hubs on the Series Landrover, or even 90/110. (but possibly later Defender). Also, I seem to remember hearing that some alloy D1/Defender wheels will not fit either drum braked 90/110/Defender or Series, because the wheel fouls the drums.

However, all steel Defender wheels fit all Series Landrovers. Offset of the standard Defender wheels is slightly different to the standard Series wheels, but unless I am mistaken they were used on Series 3 in some markets.

For completeness, all Post Classic Rangerovers, D2,3,4, Freelander and 101 use different stud patterns, I think the Rangerovers and Discoveries are the same as each other, but interchangeability is not as good, as brakes are very close to wheels on some models.

John

Further to John's comment, all Series wheels have different offsets also ie S1 are different to S11 and different to later S111 wheels.

[Dauntless]

I have 16x6.5 Defender wheels on my 1970 2A SWB, they fit with no problems. Running 235/85R16 tyres.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1242.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1243.jpg

more pics:
1970 Land Rover Series IIA 88" (http://zyrex.org/gallery/Cars/DauntsVolvo/vehicles/landrover/?g2_page=7)

[matpoli]

What a timely thread as I was considering changing my std series 2 272309 (are these for 109's I have them on my 88) 5.5 inch rims to either Disco 1's 7inch or defender rims 6.0-6.5inch in the hope that the wider rims will allow my Pirelli Dakar Scorpion 7.5 R16 to balloon more when I let them down.

At the moment I let them down to 12-10 psi for beach sand and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to climb a slope that a patrol went up easily. I didn't have much momentum only about 20m worth but I thought I would get further than half way up.

I tried in 1st 4H and then even in 2nd 4L and couldn't crest it, IF I had more surface area I my tyres would I make it??

I must say the little girl has never got me bogged on sand, I have needed help with in mud and if I get the wider rims I'll use my old rims for some muddies :)

Oh and sorry if this is considered hijacking a post Oh greyist of ghosts

Thanks for any comments

[JDNSW]

.........

I tried in 1st 4H and then even in 2nd 4L and couldn't crest it, IF I had more surface area I my tyres would I make it??
......

Unlikely to make much difference. The actual ground pressure depends mainly on the pressure and the tyre rigidity - I doubt the rim width makes much difference, as the sideways bulge is not the important bit, the flattening out of the tread in the direction of travel is the important bit.

I suggest that the failure to climb was less a diffrence in tyres or vehicle than driving technique. Without seeing the hill I obviously can't judge, but my immediate thought is that 3/L would be more suitable, although the lack of run up may have prevented this. The important thing on sand is to avoid wheel spin, and 2/L would make this too easy. 1/H4 would have been closer, but perhaps a bit too high, running out of power.

My experience is to plan on hitting the base of the hill as fast as the run up allows, in the gear that has the engine at maximum rpm, easing back on the throttle as the vehicle slows, to avoid wheelspin. Takes some practice!

John

[Warb]

I'm not sure that increasing the wheel width will allow the tyre to balloon. It will push the sidewalls out at the rim, making them closer to perpendicular with the treads. That would give a firmer ride and perhaps less sideways movement whilst cornering, but I'm not sure it would give more ballooning when aired-down.

Also note that most 7.5 R16's have a recommended rim width of 6.0", 5.5-6.5 acceptable, and would almost certainly be out of spec on a 7" rim (though I don't know the spec for your particular tyres).

[chazza]

At the moment I let them down to 12-10 psi for beach sand and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to climb a slope that a patrol went up easily. I didn't have much momentum only about 20m worth but I thought I would get further than half way up.

I tried in 1st 4H and then even in 2nd 4L and couldn't crest it, IF I had more surface area I my tyres would I make it??


I think the lack of run-up would be the main problem. I have used low 2 on numerous occasions on sand and it worked well. Did you try low 3 with a longer run-up?

Cheers Charlie

[numpty]

What a timely thread as I was considering changing my std series 2 272309 (are these for 109's I have them on my 88) 5.5 inch rims to either Disco 1's 7inch or defender rims 6.0-6.5inch in the hope that the wider rims will allow my Pirelli Dakar Scorpion 7.5 R16 to balloon more when I let them down.
Thanks for any comments

Defender 110 steel rims are 5.5" ie same width as series rims. Alloys are 7". 130 rims however are 6.5"

[matpoli]

I think the lack of run-up would be the main problem. I have used low 2 on numerous occasions on sand and it worked well. Did you try low 3 with a longer run-up?

Cheers Charlie

It was a really awkward setup there was a sharp left turn which wiped off speed then there was a small hill which wiped off more and then the big hill which I couldn't get up. I think I'll have to get done pics of it.

[matpoli]

Defender 110 steel rims are 5.5" ie same width as series rims. Alloys are 7". 130 rims however are 6.5"

Thanks. I wasn't sure of the defender sizes so I thought if I just guessed someone with the correct knowledge would help me out :)

[chazza]

It was a really awkward setup there was a sharp left turn which wiped off speed then there was a small hill which wiped off more and then the big hill which I couldn't get up.

Sounds like the exit at Binningup beach.

My Disco stopped in the deep loose stuff in low 2 with myself contemplating and undignified reverse down a nasty ramp, with a roll-over type drop onto the beach :eek:

Mercifully it started off in low 1 and got out :D

Cheers Charlie

[LWB123]

Defender 110 steel rims are 5.5" ie same width as series rims. Alloys are 7". 130 rims however are 6.5"

Hello from Brisbane.

I guess I am about as confused as poor old Grey Ghost should be by now.

I was of the understanding that the various wheels were of the dimensions listed in the earlier post by Numpty. However, I also thought - wrongly perhaps - that the 130 wheels had ventilated centres.

The post even earlier from Dauntless has a photo of what appear to be 16 X 6.5" rims - apparently from a Defender. There are no ventilation holes in those rims that I can see. So, is it possible to get non-ventilated 6.5" rims here without seeking out a set from a forward control which is the popular route in the UK for putting wider rubber on restored Series without compromising the original look too much?

Cheers,

[akelly]

The spare for my 130 doesn't have the holes, but the rest do. If I remember right, the early 130s didn't have the holes...

Saw these today - might be an option for wideys on a series:

ROAM OFFROAD (http://www.roamoffroad.com/wheels.php)

I'm sure you could get that done out here.

Adam

[Dauntless]

Hello from Brisbane.

I guess I am about as confused as poor old Grey Ghost should be by now.

I was of the understanding that the various wheels were of the dimensions listed in the earlier post by Numpty. However, I also thought - wrongly perhaps - that the 130 wheels had ventilated centres.

The post even earlier from Dauntless has a photo of what appear to be 16 X 6.5" rims - apparently from a Defender. There are no ventilation holes in those rims that I can see. So, is it possible to get non-ventilated 6.5" rims here without seeking out a set from a forward control which is the popular route in the UK for putting wider rubber on restored Series without compromising the original look too much?

Cheers,I'm quite sure they're standard Defender rims, they even have "Made in England" stamped in them. I got mine in Sydney from a guy who was running them on his Disco I think, or at least intended to.

[roverrescue]

6.5" width, 20.6mm offset.
They be early pre '97 i think 130 rims.
Before the ventilated look, often referred to as "WOLF" wheels.

Steve

[wrinklearthur]

I have 16x6.5 Defender wheels on my 1970 2A SWB, they fit with no problems. Running 235/85R16 tyres.

Hi Dauntless

Could you tell us the part number that is stamped on your rim please?

The part numbers, (from spare parts manual STC 9021,) for the Defender are:

NRC 7578 ..... 5.5F x 16-riveted-tubed ........ to (VIN) TA 72779

ANR 4636 ..... 5.5j x 16-welded-tubed ..... from (VIN) TA 72780

ANR 1534 ..... 6.5j x 16-riveted-tubed ........ to (VIN) TA 999222 .... heavy duty suspension

ANR 5593 ..... 6.5j x 16-welded-tubed ...... from (VIN) TA 999223 .... heavy duty suspension

ANR 4583 ..... 6.5j x 16-welded-tubeless ... from (VIN) TA 999223 .... heavy duty suspension

The part numbers, (from spare parts manual RTC 9300,) for Series 2A and 3 are:

231601 ................................................. 88"

272309 ................................................ 109" ... Series 2A, offset-centre line 46.04mm (1 13/16")

569690 ................................................ 109" ... Series 2A and 3, offset-centre line 33.34mm (1 5/16")

560204 ................................................ 109" ... Series 2A 1 ton

Using these numbers in conjunction with that page of wheel offsets that
Lotz-A-Landies has posted should get you sorted.
( still searching for that page )



* the 1948 rims are 4 1/2" wide, no branding on the flats & valve stem hole in the slot.
* 231601 - 5" wide, '49 - series 3 88" rims 49-53 UK manuf. only 53 on UK & Aust manuf.
* 272309 - 5 1/2" wide, 28/16" offset, '58 - series 3 109" rims, 7.50 tyres, UK or Aust manuf.
* 569690 - 5 1/2" wide, 21/16" offset, series 2a - series 3 109" rims UK manuf. only, 7.50 tyres (often called English rims)
* 526753 - 15" rim for 8.20 - 9.00 tyres UK manuf. US market.
* 543384 - 6 1/2" wide, no offset UK manuf. SIIA Forward Control 9.00 tyres
* 569204 - 6 1/2" wide, 13/16 offset UK Manuf. One Ton Land Rover 9.00tyres
* 569203 - 6 1/2" wide, aprox 3/4" offset UK manuf. SIIB Forward Control 9.00 tyres
* NRC7578PM - 5 1/2" wide, Unknown offset, series 3/stage 1/County, UK and Aust Manuf. 7.50 tyres

Only the very late series 3/Stage 1 rims (AYG-8108) had the raised ring between the studs. Whether it was 6.0" I am unaware. Diana
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/43852d1329874541-130-tubed-wheels-tubeless-tyres-lr_rims-modified3.jpg

[matpoli]

Hey Arthur me again. So are all the offsets positive, as in moves the wheels out towards the outside of the car away from the diff?

[Blknight.aus]

What a timely thread as I was considering changing my std series 2 272309 (are these for 109's I have them on my 88) 5.5 inch rims to either Disco 1's 7inch or defender rims 6.0-6.5inch in the hope that the wider rims will allow my Pirelli Dakar Scorpion 7.5 R16 to balloon more when I let them down.

At the moment I let them down to 12-10 psi for beach sand and I was disappointed that I wasn't able to climb a slope that a patrol went up easily. I didn't have much momentum only about 20m worth but I thought I would get further than half way up.

I tried in 1st 4H and then even in 2nd 4L and couldn't crest it, IF I had more surface area I my tyres would I make it??

I must say the little girl has never got me bogged on sand, I have needed help with in mud and if I get the wider rims I'll use my old rims for some muddies :)

Oh and sorry if this is considered hijacking a post Oh greyist of ghosts

Thanks for any comments

down to 4 PSI 2 low launch easy snig third and walk it up on the torque.

[matpoli]

down to 4 PSI 2 low launch easy snig third and walk it up on the torque.

I'm guessing that this would only be done if there was no other option and then you would pump back up to 10 or you run the risk of poping a tyre off the rim.

[wrinklearthur]

Hey Arthur me again. So are all the offsets positive, as in moves the wheels out towards the outside of the car away from the diff?
Hi Matpoli

They are a bit of a mixture of positive and negative offsets, have a look at this link of Diana's and you will see what they are.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/43852d1329874541-130-tubed-wheels-tubeless-tyres-lr_rims-modified3.jpg

Then have a look at what rick130 has put on his post, it does explain the difference in offset's.

Diana, the current style 130 rim has an offset of 20.6mm positive.

It's stamped on the rims and I've measured it to confirm.
This means that the rim centreline is 20.6mm outside of the mounting face, or to put it another way, this particular rim has 103mm of backspace, ie. if you lay a straight edge across the back of the rim and measure to the mounting face it's 103mm.

standard 110 rims have a positive offset of 33mm (as does the Disco I) regardless of whether they are the 5.5" or 7" rim.
On the 5.5" rim the backspace should be 102.85mm, (I'll drag a 5.5" rim out of the shed and confirm this later) and the 7" rim should have 122mm of backspace.

Positive offset means the rim centreline is inside of the mounting face, negative offset is obviously the other way around. (it can get confusing)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/855.jpg

[wrinklearthur]

Ah Found it! and I was the one that posted it :whistling:




To determine the correct offset of the rims, extend the line through the centre of the swivel pins, at a spot on the road under the tyre. At this point and the centre line of the tyre should coincide, but in practice these two points do often fall short, leaving a gap between the two points called a scrub radius. Changing the tyres from a small diameter to a larger diameter can work to close the scrub radius.


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/853.jpg
ref; Wheel options for the MGF (http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/suspension/wheel_options_for_the_mgf.htm)

[Blknight.aus]

I'm guessing that this would only be done if there was no other option and then you would pump back up to 10 or you run the risk of poping a tyre off the rim.

depends on how slow you're willing to travel for straight up and down and gentle throttle applications if your carefull you can stay that low all day long.

Generally 16PSI is the lowest reccomended pressure for normalish driving.

the lower the tyre pressure goes the more spread you get and ignoring a lot of factors its exponential so as you go lower in the pressure range a smaller number makes a much bigger difference in contact patch. The typical limiting factors that work against this are.

1. construction stiffness. trying to lower the pressure on a heavy duty tyre built to handle multiple thousands of tons isnt going to help as much as it will on a canvas rag tyre designed to flex around and bag out while only supporting a couple of dozen kilos. Similarly cross ply rag tyres flex a lot better than most radial steel belts.

2. Tyre life. The more it flexes the more likely you are to pinch it or punch it in both cases, theres a flat.

3. Rim Spinning. Without enough pressure to hold the beads to the rim and transmit the drive the rim spins in the rubber and you get no go and a flat in the mix.

[matpoli]

Thank you very much to Arthur for the great pictures and blknight for your advice as well.

I'll just keep an ear out for either some 6.5" or 7" rims and put new rubber on them when i need to and i will definitely be book marking this thread as I'll use it for future reference.

My current tyres are Pirelli scorpion 8 ply 7.5 x 16's and although tough they don't give me enough surface area on the beach and the damn things never wear out.

And thank you grey ghost for starting the thread.

[Dauntless]

Hi Dauntless

Could you tell us the part number that is stamped on your rim please?

The part numbers, (from spare parts manual STC 9021,) for the Defender are:

NRC 7578 ..... 5.5F x 16-riveted-tubed ........ to (VIN) TA 72779

ANR 4636 ..... 5.5j x 16-welded-tubed ..... from (VIN) TA 72780

ANR 1534 ..... 6.5j x 16-riveted-tubed ........ to (VIN) TA 999222 .... heavy duty suspension

ANR 5593 ..... 6.5j x 16-welded-tubed ...... from (VIN) TA 999223 .... heavy duty suspension

ANR 4583 ..... 6.5j x 16-welded-tubeless ... from (VIN) TA 999223 .... heavy duty suspension

The part numbers, (from spare parts manual RTC 9300,) for Series 2A and 3 are:

231601 ................................................. 88"

272309 ................................................ 109" ... Series 2A, offset-centre line 46.04mm (1 13/16")

569690 ................................................ 109" ... Series 2A and 3, offset-centre line 33.34mm (1 5/16")

560204 ................................................ 109" ... Series 2A 1 ton

Using these numbers in conjunction with that page of wheel offsets that
Lotz-A-Landies has posted should get you sorted.
( still searching for that page )


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/90-110-130-defender-county/43852d1329874541-130-tubed-wheels-tubeless-tyres-lr_rims-modified3.jpg

I can check the part number if you like, though based on this info I'd assume they are ANR1534.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/830.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/831.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/832.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/833.jpg