D3/D4 rear headroom load area space.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just a quick question for the D3/D4 owners.

Could you fit an electric wheelchair in the back of a D3/D4 and still have second row seats occupied?

Height 1040 (1400 with person seated)
width 710mm
length 1100mm

[gghaggis]

Hi

The rear opening height is 950mm, by 970mm wide, so don't think so.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi

The rear opening height is 950mm, by 970mm wide, so don't think so.

Cheers,

GordonThat's a buggar!

I don't want to buy a new car and if I have to, I most certainly don't want to buy some sort of Japanese or Euro van, that seems like a waste of money to me. :( :( :(

If the opening is that size, would it still be possible to load the chair? (Dad can transfer to the front seat of my RRc O.K., and the chair back can rake down to lower it's effective height to get it in.) It's height is 1040 with the seat back raised.

So all I need is a luggage load area of 1100mm from inside the back door to the back of the 2nd row seats (raised or lowered) and preferably nominally 1040mm height.

[Larry]

That's a buggar!

I don't want to buy a new car and if I have to, I most certainly don't want to buy some sort of Japanese or Euro van, that seems like a waste of money to me. :( :( :(

If the opening is that size, would it still be possible to load the chair? (Dad can transfer to the front seat of my RRc O.K., and the chair back can rake down to lower it's effective height to get it in.) It's height is 1040 with the seat back raised.

So all I need is a luggage load area of 1100mm from inside the back door to the back of the 2nd row seats (raised or lowered) and preferably nominally 1040mm height.

6X6 D/C Defender, plenty of room in the back! :p:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

6X6 D/C Defender, plenty of room in the back! :p:DA Defender would be great, except that it won't neal down to assist getting in and out and won't be ready for some months.

Next Monday, I have to be on the farm in the bright and early take dad to the hospital in Sydney for an 11.00 am appt, wait then drive him back to the farm and then return to Sydney and be ready for work. 500KM+ in the day, with lots of waiting around twiddling thumbs in the mean time. I can't get the chair in the RRc and cant use a loading dock at the hospital for the trailer andchair, so I have to use a manual chair removing Dad's autonomy even more. :(

This is going to be an ongoing issue and I may as well masticate the ordnance now rather than later, so looking at options. If not a D4 then maybe it'll have to be a LC200!

[gghaggis]

The measurements I gave was for the opening to the rear load space. The space itself is 1030mm high. The length is 1120, but that's at floor level. As the 2nd-row seat backs rake backwards a little, it would be less at the height of the top of the seat-back. I didn't measure that, so hazarding a guess, somewhere around 1000mm?

Cheers,

Gordon

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks Gordon

The numbers are getting close!

The 1120mm floor level front to rear is within the limits, particularly as the footrest folds up, but the height still may be an issue.

It's easier if the chair goes in backwards as you can stand outside and operate the joystick. This means the backrest will lean forward over the 2nd row seats and I don't know if I can fold the backrest forward but will check.

Diana

[jonesy63]

What about if you removed the two rear-most seats? That could buy you another 100+ mm in height.

[Graeme]

it won't neal down to assist getting in and out
Llams can now drop a D4 virtually to the bump-stops but watch your head getting in and out, so perhaps too low.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What about if you removed the two rear-most seats? That could buy you another 100+ mm in height.I take it you are talking about the 3rd row seating? (seats 6 and 7) Hadn't decided whether to include the 3rd row seats in the purchase, but don't understand how removing something bolted in the corners of the floor will add head room, or is there something about D4 seats i don't know??? Or do they only fold flat not up to the sides like the D2 seats?

Addit: Doesn't look like JLR think much of the reliability of the Defender Puma!

http://www.landrover.com/au/en/lr/discovery-4/photos-and-videos/

[Larry]

I take it you are talking about the 3rd row seating? (seats 6 and 7) Hadn't decided whether to include the 3rd row seats in the purchase, but don't understand how removing something bolted in the corners of the floor will add head room, or is there something about D4 seats i don't know??? Or do they only fold flat not up to the sides like the D2 seats?.......

They fold flat into the floor.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

They fold flat into the floor.So if the 3rd row seats weren't fitted then I'd have another 100mm headroom or do they merely add a hole under a false floor?

Whats a Llams?

BTW Dad's chair has seat elevation so he can has a lube job done without having to use a creeper! :p (Reminds me of Professor Fate's car in "The Great Race" movie

[Graeme]

Whats a Llams?
Its an electronic box that I produce for temporarily changing D3/D4/RRS suspension heights, mostly for raising but it also lowers. The latest version can lower by 20 or 35 or 50 mm and if 50 mm is used with Access mode the vehicle is basically on the bump-stops. 35 mm with access mode might be a good compromise.

[jonesy63]

So if the 3rd row seats weren't fitted then I'd have another 100mm headroom or do they merely add a hole under a false floor?

IIRC, the 5 seaters have a false floor - with jack/tools in a polystyrene foam holder.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

IIRC, the 5 seaters have a false floor - with jack/tools in a polystyrene foam holder.So if the 5 seaters have the tools under there and the 7 seater has the seat. Where are the tools in the 7 seater?

[jonesy63]

Behind plastic hatch in driver's side luggage space. Not sure what is there in 5 seaters.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Have just returned from Trivett's at Alexandria, had a good look at an HSE D4 3 litre, very nice but $15K for 300cc extra seems a lot.

You go into the showroom looking for a basic D4 wheelchair transporter and walk out wanting EVERYTHING! :D

Don't think I would need Llams as the car was sitting on the bump stops and would be easy to load Dad and maybe the chair at that height.

3rd row seats would have to go.

Has anyone ever made the tailgate a swing door?

[Graeme]

the car was sitting on the bump stopsWhat made you think that - was it just that is was lower than normal? They aren't made with a way to set them right down. Anyway, if it was low enough then that's good.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What made you think that - was it just that is was lower than normal? They aren't made with a way to set them right down. Anyway, if it was low enough then that's good.The salesman suggested it was on the stops!

The height would be O.K for Dad to transfer chair to car and car to chair, provided it will drop to that height readily (not an overnight losing height deal).

The problem is the 750mm height from the ground to the top of the tailgate.

If the lower tailgate would swing-away and the rear could be modified to produce a level entry to the lower rear floor the height the chair has to climb would only be 650mm.

It does seem possible, but do I want to spend $90K when I'd rather be stuffing my super. :confused: :confused: :confused:

It is family and you have to do these things.

[Robocop]

I've got the Faultmate MSV-2 & I can assure you what the salesman said was on the bump stops probably wasn't. Had mine on transport (belly) mode last week & it was about 2" off the ground or less.

[jonesy63]

News flash! "Salesman doesn't know own product!" :wasntme::D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

News flash! "Salesman doesn't know own product!" :wasntme::DHow cynical are we, suggesting such things about people in suits who hang around car yards!

As for the Llams and Faultmates etc. The height at the side for transferring from the chair to the car seat when the vehicle is at rest currently is fine.

What would be good if it were possible to get the ground to tailgate height lower for the chair to climb up. So an ability to drop the rear of the car lower than current would be good. It is what lots of the other wheelchair accessible vehicles do.

A side hinged tailgate would be good in this case, or even a full length lift up tailgate.

Diana

[Graeme]

Mine's lower tailgate is 800 mm at normal height, 750 at access height and 680 at Llams extra low. Its about 630 with the supports unclipped (30 seconds to do) and just not touching the bumper but still needs to be supported. The curved edge might present a challenge.

Edit: A specially made steel bar might allow the tailgate to lower to a greater angle.

Just the rear could be made to lower which would effectively lower the tailgate edge more but the vehicle would not comply with specific legislation. Lowering only the rear or 1 side of a vehicle must only be available whilst stationary and Llams doesn't access the vehicle speed signal, not in its current form anyway.

[Robocop]

Just a note.. When I did have my D4 on belly or transport mode it had some issues raising back up to normal height. Also bearing in mind my D4 is 6 months old with around 15k on the clock.

Admittedly I had been fiddling with the system for about an hour (up&down many times) & the air pump was running most of that time.

Part way through the lift it stopped due to the pump or pump motor being too hot. I was only able to see this via the faultmate.

I suppose if you were to drop the vehicle to its lowest point on a regular basis you may need to look at beefing up the air reservoir or similar.

Rob

[Graeme]

Raising from right down to normal height is about the same as from access height to off-road height which does rely on the compressor not being too hot for it to complete in 1 operation. As long as the compressor can cool before the next time such a lift is required, there shouldn't be a problem.

I don't know if transport mode deflates the airsprings to their "hold-shape" minimum pressure but it would add more work for the compressor if it does. Lowering until the height sensor voltages no longer change doesn't empty the airsprings.

[Graeme]

I suppose if you were to drop the vehicle to its lowest point on a regular basis you may need to look at beefing up the air reservoir or similar.
A duplicate reservoir on the other side may be worthwhile.

[gghaggis]

I don't know if transport mode deflates the airsprings to their "hold-shape" minimum pressure but it would add more work for the compressor if it does.

Pretty sure transport mode does just that - around 15psi. However, when testing my emergency inflation kit, we had two bags at a time totally deflated, and the car managed a lift to on-road height in only a few seconds more than access to on-road. Not something I'd like the system to have to do on a continual basis though.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

Mine went from bump-stops to +30mm in a matter of seconds today, but the compressor was cold as the vehicle hadn't been started for 24 hrs.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Anyone with a D4 or D3 live around the Shoalhaven and be home on Sunday?