101 original lump vs a Diesel alternative

[lardy]

Hello boys and girls,
Could I have a show of hands with regards how you run your 101.
I was fairly sure I was going to drop the gearbox & lump and swap it for a disco 1 lump and auto box which is a cheap option for me as an alternate power source.
The reason to consider doing this is I live in the north and plan to go further north through the Kimberly, where the luxury of LPG is intermittent at best, later runs we're going to be the most westerly point to the most easterly point across the French line.
Any of you 101 guys want to tell me what you run your babies on that would be appreciated Andy.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps'll=-20.682610,117.140185
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[isuzurover]

Not a 101 owner, but if/when I buy one it will be getting an ISUZU 4BD1T.

[lardy]

That is maxed out in a defender. A tgv 2.8 is a tight fit between the rails, I am not sure that one would fit


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[Blknight.aus]

it'll fit, need to mod the manifolds but she'll squeeze in there.

[101 Ron]

205 litre drum is easily carried in the back.
The cost of the extra fuel is a fraction of cost of a engine conversion.
Do you really want a diesel rattling away 4 inches away from your hip ?
Why do alot of 101s get converted back to petrol in the UK ?
The standard engine and gearbox combo is the most reliable rover factory one ever produced.
The rover bent 8 is a nice drive.
This subject has been done before on another post.
Plenty of power up grades using the rover 8 and gearing options.
The relation of the transmission to the front and rear diffs is critical, so lenghtening the transmission or moving it rearwards or forwards in anyway is not a option.
The 101 already runs a special short bell housing, all the auto, R380 options increase the drive line lenght.
Models fitted with winch need to retain the LT95 transfercase as the winch drive is a very special design.
End of lesson.
Ron

[101 Ron]

PS the bent Eight sounds so cool........:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[101 Ron]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/fcs-military-variations/73211-diesel-into-101-ambulance.html

Check all of the old posts.

[lardy]

I am an out and out diesel lover but I have to say the v8 sounds almost sexual Ron.
Do you have gas in yours?
Do you do long bush runs - gun barrel etc or do you use it as a play thing rather than any kind of tourer ??
Cheers for the link

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[101RRS]

If I could get a RRS 3.5 TDV8 cheap I would probably go for it but they aren't cheap. I am with Ron - stay with a Rover V8 and put it on gas.

300 Tdi - not enough oomph to warrant the change
Isuzu 3.9 diesel - too heavy for the front suspension and weight balance of the vehicle.
Mazda diesel - about the same performance as a 3.5V8 - is the cost of changeover worth it for ordinary diesel performance.
Chev V8 Diesel - not a lot of oomph for the money and size engine.

I am now getting about 11mpg on gas and 15mpg on petrol with easy driving. An ambo will be worse the faster you go.

There will be lots of little things to sort when you get your ambo so initially work on these and be happy - then maybe, depending on your use look at modifications

Oh there was a 4.4 RR TDV8 for sale on ebay a couple of weeks back for $12K. That would be a good engine in an ambo.

Garry

[stuee]

Id say if the original was good enough to cross the Sahara in 1975 then it should be able to do the Kimberly with multiple supply stops along the way.

West East Anniversary (http://www.101fc.net/westeast/)
Sahara (http://www.4wdonline.com/Mil/LandRover/FC101/Sahara.html)

I've always been meaning to read up more on that expedition. This citation points out that they crossed "The Empty Quarter", over 1600km, without re-supply.
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie (http://www.jstor.org/pss/1796595)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

AS Ron says, put a 200litre drum in the back. When you want to do things like the CSR the rule is to top up the LPG at the last place it's available and run on petrol to the begining of the section where fuel endurance is required filling your petrol tanks at the last source of petrol.

For CSR run on petrol so that your vehicle tanks are on empty for unleaded petrol resupply at the Kunawarritji Community Store at well 33 and use the LPG only as a reserve before then. After well 33 the choice of which fuel to use is yours. The fuel dump at well 23 if it still happens, is not recommended as unsecured fuel was being stolen.

[101RRS]

I agree with Diana - I have done couple of outback trips where there is no LPG. Fill all tanks and run on petrol and only run on LPG for the last 200km (gives a 100km reserve) back to where you can buy LPG. (make sure you still have petrol for this distance). This also provides extra security in case you have an issue with the petrol system and cannot repair it - likewise for the LPG.

Worked out you will need 5 200litre drums (they will fit and you will still be well under max weight) as well as 80-100l of gas and 110litre of petrol in the main tank to do the whole CSR with side trips and reserve. If fuel is guaranteed at well 33 then obviously less is needed.

[rovercare]

I agree with Diana - I have done couple of outback trips where there is no LPG. Fill all tanks and run on petrol and only run on LPG for the last 200km (gives a 100km reserve) back to where you can buy LPG. (make sure you still have petrol for this distance). This also provides extra security in case you have an issue with the petrol system and cannot repair it - likewise for the LPG.

Worked out you will need 5 200litre drums (they will fit and you will still be well under max weight) as well as 80-100l of gas and 110litre of petrol in the main tank to do the whole CSR with side trips and reserve. If fuel is guaranteed at well 33 then obviously less is needed.

You would rather carry a whole ton of petrol than add 200kgs of engine weight, I can see the logic.....

Bugged if I'd like to travel with a large bomb, but each to their own

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...

Worked out you will need 5 200litre drums (they will fit and you will still be well under max weight) as well as 80-100l of gas and 110litre of petrol in the main tank to do the whole CSR with side trips and reserve. If fuel is guaranteed at well 33 then obviously less is needed. Garry, I think there is something wrong with yout sums. I thought the CSR was 1900Km and with your fuel calculations based on 5 X 44Gal drums you seem to be consuming 62.6L/100Km. Is that what you meant to suggest?

I'd have to mortgage the house to even contemplate the trip. :confused:

[101RRS]

Bugged if I'd like to travel with a large bomb, but each to their own

How does then fuel get to the Kunawarritji Community Store - in a bloody big truck with a big fuel tank. I think petrol stored in appropriate containers is relatively safe - really no different to the truck that used to do the fuel dump.

Garry

[101RRS]

Garry, I think there is something wrong with yout sums. I thought the CSR was 1900Km and with your fuel calculations based on 5 X 44Gal drums you seem to be consuming 62.6L/100Km.

Hi Diana - nothing wrong with the sums - maybe my assumptions in working it out.

Assumed 2000km track - add a couple hundred for diversions to look at things on the way.

At Stockton I used up to 60l/100km but that was red line runups and climbing dunes - in hard offroad I may see 40 but normally about 35. So there is a safety margin to add.

I have never done the CSR and given that much of it is open country then I would expect fuel consumption to be less (maybe 30 on the open and 60 in the dunes but as I said I have not done the CSR so safer to carry more - remember we are not talking about a normal 4wd - the 101 has the space, and was designed to carry 1.5t cross country while towing 2 tonne. With the fuel load and other gear the 101 will still be well under its gross weight and that is to do the whole CSR. Most 4wds doing the CSR will be probably be overloaded at the start.

Of course with fuel available at the Kunawarritji Community Store then far less fuel would be carried.

Garry

[101 Ron]

I am an out and out diesel lover but I have to say the v8 sounds almost sexual Ron.
Do you have gas in yours?
Do you do long bush runs - gun barrel etc or do you use it as a play thing rather than any kind of tourer ??
Cheers for the link

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The 101 is my only full time registed vehicle at present.
I work for my self and my job requires me to be on standby to look after some hire forklifts I own,,,,,,,,,,,so long trips and holidays is out and has been for many years.
I also live on the lower east coast and the distances to get to places of attraction is not that far.
I would love to do the big trip around this place in the 101 and my 101 is able to do it, but you really need to question yourself and look at long distance comfort levels and aircon, power steer etc and and say is the 101 the best vehicle to do that sort of trip in the first place ?
Do a few 10 hour drives in the 101 and you will know where i am coming from.
I have petrol and LPG.
The LPG tank on my 101 is only small as it is mounted under the rear of the vehicle, but I am able to carry 3 extra fuel jerry cans without intruding into the cargo area.
My 101 is curently running the highest transfercase ratio advailible and overdrive with the 36 inch simex tyres.
it will cruise all day loaded at 100kph plus with the standard motor which is in good tune.
The limits is how fast you can turn the tailshafts with the standard 5.56 to 1 diff over time .
4.6 ratio diff are a options, but spreads the main gearbox ratios a bit and raises the low range crawl and a stock 3.5 is not happy with the 4.6 ratios.
The 101s become aero dynamically poor above 80 kph and the fuel burn rises.
I have a 4.6 in the works, but whisle the 3.5 is running sweet I can not justify the work and cost in the up grade.
Performance on road is equal to a TDI300 defender or a Isuzu county.
I really dont need any more in a vehicle never designed to be a high speed vehicle and the steering, suspension and brakes reflect this.
I find my 101 to be a compact tuff as nails high capacity little work horse and it shines as a off road tow wagon and is totally reliable.......just what the army designed it to do.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Garry

Granted the 101 is a thirsty and heavy beast and would be more so with a tonne of petrol and your picnic lunch making up the remainder but 60L/100Km is significant consumption.

Some of the CSR is indeed heavy sand hill work but a lot of it is relatively smooth tracks.

If you review the exploroz site you find that the vehicle consumption is not that much greater than each vehicle's regular road use overall, but the issue is the total distance between drinks.

Canning Stock Route Trek Fuel Data @ ExplorOz (http://www.exploroz.com/TrekNotes/TrekFuel.asp?TrekID=58&xc=1)

So with your on board fuel and using your own calculations of 40/100 you could likely dump 2 of the 5 drums, maybe more but as you say safety is important.

Diana

[101 Ron]

Fuel burn can be interesting on the 101.
Flat country at 100 kph or less it can be reasonable with the overdrive.
As Garry correctly pointed out everytime I take the 101 to stockton beach its fuel burn is very very poor.
Stocktons sand is very soft. and requires the little rover 8 to use its reserves of grunt specially with bar treads digging through the sand and not going over the top.
The local monkey gum track and it will use little as the low range work with or without payload requires running at 1500 to 2000 rpm where the little rover spreads its torque
How a amblance version goes with the heavier body and wind drag I dont know.

[wrinklearthur]

You would rather carry a whole ton of petrol than add 200kgs of engine weight, I can see the logic.....
Bugged if I'd like to travel with a large bomb, but each to their own

So called empty drums that have sat around for a decade are the extremely dangerous ones, full and recently emptied drums / fuel tanks, don't blow up.

The only disadvantage I can see is the all up weight over the tyre size.

Using a nicely tuned V8 with it's heavy use of petrol, against the cost of a change over to diesel on the CSR.
I would say it's debatable whether the cost of a change over against the petrol used, justify doing this work.
.

[isuzurover]

As said, bugger carrying a tonne of petrol on board. May even be illegal???

When we did the CSR, there were 7-10 burnt out 4x4s along the track. All of them were petrol.

One of our party was in a petrol/V8 RRC. I inspected his RRC for him before he bought it back in the late 90's. At the end of the canning he said "why didn't you tell me to buy a diesel instead!"

I would never do long distance touring in a petrol after my experiences. Btw - if you run out of diesel you can run on your cooking oil :D

[The ho har's]

Btw - if you run out of diesel you can run on your cooking oil :D


Um where is the nearest fish and chip shop on THE canning:o:p


Andy, shoot 123Rover50 a PM, we were talking about your rig at our last BBQ, he has a FC 2B camper 6x6 diesel conversion;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[wrinklearthur]

Um where is the nearest fish and chip shop on the canning

Canning Vale Fish & Chips, Canning Vale WA 6155 - Take Aways - TrueLocal (http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/canning-vale-fish-and-chips/canning-vale)

They tell me they do a nice feed.
.

[The ho har's]

Canning Vale Fish & Chips, Canning Vale WA 6155 - Take Aways - TrueLocal (http://www.truelocal.com.au/business/canning-vale-fish-and-chips/canning-vale)

They tell me they do a nice feed.
.


hahaha smarty pants, thats like saying there is a terrific fish and chip shop in Trail harbour;):p

you know I ment the CSR:)

Mrs hh:angel:

[Casper]

At 40/100kms to do 2000kms you would burn approx 800ltrs of petrol.

800ltrs of petrol will weigh 568.8kg + 36kg for the 4 drums to put it in (9kg each approx) meaning that your carrying 604.8kg fuel and drums.

Thats a little over half a tonne with a 1.5 tonne truck not including your ambulance body, any gear you are going to carry etc etc.

You would be better off with a 300Tdi Deefa tray, just as uncomfortable as a 101 but with power steer and air con and still take a tonne of gear.

Lotza Landys had one for sale cheap on Ebay I believe.

If you were to do long outback trips then go diesel, a 300Tdi will push it along at 80k's but not much more with the 5.5's and the low geared TC and there are plenty of power up options or maybe go the high tech route and go for a TD5.

Andrew from LRA seems to know his way around fitting them in all things LR nowdays so maybe an Email to him may help.

A 4BD1T would be perfect but it would be a tight fit hight wise I think but otherwise generally fits anywhere a Rover V8 will fit and a 6BD1T would be even better if you could allow the length which I'm not sure of in a 101.

Good luck though, sounds like a good project and 1 that I would love to do oneday.

Cheers Casper

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
You would be better off with a 300Tdi Deefa tray, just as uncomfortable as a 101 but with power steer and air con and still take a tonne of gear.

Lotza Landys had one for sale cheap on Ebay I believe.

If you were to do long outback trips then go diesel, a 300Tdi will push it along at 80k's but not much more with the 5.5's and the low geared TC and there are plenty of power up options or maybe go the high tech route and go for a TD5. ...

... A 4BD1T would be perfect but it would be a tight fit hight wise I think but otherwise generally fits anywhere a Rover V8 will fit and a 6BD1T would be even better if you could allow the length which I'm not sure of in a 101.

Good luck though, sounds like a good project and 1 that I would love to do oneday.

Cheers CasperQue?

I've never had a 300TDi and I keep my Landies (never let them go)!

The problem with the 4BD1T in the 101 is that the exhaust manifold/turbo is over the LHS chassis rail where room is extremely tight and likely to make it very hot for the front seat passenger.

[The ho har's]

Que?

I've never had a 300TDi and I keep my Landies (never let them go)!

The problem with the 4BD1T in the 101 is that the exhaust manifold/turbo is over the LHS chassis rail where room is extremely tight and likely to make it very hot for the front seat passenger.

And I can tell you the heat is hot enough now with out adding anything to it :(:mad::o, hey aircon would be nice:D


Maybe a little fan:cool::)

Mrs hh:angel:

[lardy]

Do a few 10 hour drives in the 101 and you will know where i am coming from.
Well as I have a 130 defender no air con and live in temperatures up to 49 degrees (usually driving in an average of 36-40) what would the difference be between that and the 101?
Also I drive the 130 to Perth and back around 2000km each way and it gets a bit warm, would there be much difference between the two, apart from the 101 should give me a better posture as I have Ankolosing spondylitis in c3&c4 which is exasibated by the defenders roof line and not helped that novacs put a tinted windscreen in which I have to duck below at night grrrr!
I really don't need a bloody tinted band on the windscreen as I am 6'3" and don't get sun issues (gee thanks auto glazier company)
I certainly could not drive a disco mk1 anymore.
So I reckon the 101 will benefit me long term as my condition deteriorates over time (something to look forward to smiley face not)
Plus I am a happily single male and have cash to invest in a long term project as the 101 has never been registered in Australia I can go nuts, it would be preferable at this stage as once it has been over the pits it all gets very emotional.
I am of the mindset of a modern injected petrol or a diesel.
I also want to strip the interior guts and refurb with lighter materials and rebuild the rear body out of ali box section opposed to the steel that is in there already there and then re apply the skin.......anyone looked at Zeus engineering brake discs and pads (rotors to you) not perfect because you have to trim them.


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[The ho har's]

Harry is well over 6' also, he finds the 101 alright to drive, the good thing about the defender is it has the flaps in the front, the 101 doesn't:( and that's where I think you will find it's fault, air rushing in weather hot or cold is good but the 101's downfall:( OH we are spoilt with the series and defenders vents aren't we:D soo we are working on getting more air in via alternative vents:) Will keep you posted:)

Mrs hh:angel:

[Casper]

Que?

I've never had a 300TDi and I keep my Landies (never let them go)!

The problem with the 4BD1T in the 101 is that the exhaust manifold/turbo is over the LHS chassis rail where room is extremely tight and likely to make it very hot for the front seat passenger.

My most sencere appologies it's PERENTIE6X6 I don't know how I got that confused.

Again, my bad.

:( Casper

[The ho har's]

Lardy, just a thought here, some are being SOOO negative about the 101, me included, with the heat issue:);)


Just think when you get it, it will be the best fun ride you have had for ages:D:D:D

It won't take the smile of your dial:D it is a cool truck to drive and the waves form everyone is incredible:)

Mrs hh:angel:

[Casper]

Lardy, just a thought here, some are being SOOO negative about the 101, me included, with the heat issue:);)


Just think when you get it, it will be the best fun ride you have had for ages:D:D:D

It won't take the smile of your dial:D it is a cool truck to drive and the waves form everyone is incredible:)

Mrs hh:angel:

Please don't think I was having a go.

I'm just bloody jealous :p

[lardy]

Harry is well over 6' also, he finds the 101 alright to drive, the good thing about the defender is it has the flaps in the front, the 101 doesn't:( and that's where I think you will find it's fault, air rushing in weather hot or cold is good but the 101's downfall:( OH we are spoilt with the series and defenders vents aren't we:D soo we are working on getting more air in via alternative vents:) Will keep you posted:)

Mrs hh:angel:

Got you regarding the air intake but with that great big space in the bulkhead for the rad is there no way in to the cab using plastic eminox?
Also the truck is still in brissy ;-( they said because it don't run they are putting it on a low loader and should be here next Friday double ;-(
But on a good note I think a roof mounted air con could be choice :-)


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[101RRS]

Insulate the engine cover and properly seal the join around its edge and not much heat gets in. Take the door tops off and there is plenty of air flow through. In hot weather when I have to drive with the sides on and door tops on, I open the little flap behind the drivers seat and as long as the windows are open there is reasonable airflow.

Ron has some nice flaps in his footwells that work well.

Garry

[101 Ron]

Do a few 10 hour drives in the 101 and you will know where i am coming from.
Well as I have a 130 defender no air con and live in temperatures up to 49 degrees (usually driving in an average of 36-40) what would the difference be between that and the 101?
Also I drive the 130 to Perth and back around 2000km each way and it gets a bit warm, would there be much difference between the two, apart from the 101 should give me a better posture as I have Ankolosing spondylitis in c3&c4 which is exasibated by the defenders roof line and not helped that novacs put a tinted windscreen in which I have to duck below at night grrrr!
I really don't need a bloody tinted band on the windscreen as I am 6'3" and don't get sun issues (gee thanks auto glazier company)
I certainly could not drive a disco mk1 anymore.
So I reckon the 101 will benefit me long term as my condition deteriorates over time (something to look forward to smiley face not)
Plus I am a happily single male and have cash to invest in a long term project as the 101 has never been registered in Australia I can go nuts, it would be preferable at this stage as once it has been over the pits it all gets very emotional.
I am of the mindset of a modern injected petrol or a diesel.
I also want to strip the interior guts and refurb with lighter materials and rebuild the rear body out of ali box section opposed to the steel that is in there already there and then re apply the skin.......anyone looked at Zeus engineering brake discs and pads (rotors to you) not perfect because you have to trim them.


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Everyone to there own.
Read the old posts as the information is great.
101 cabin vents are no problem, I have them, they work.
I until recently owned a TDI defender 130 and a 101 at the same time.
On both vehicles I have done long stretches behind the wheel.
your dreaming.
100kph after a few hours in the 101 .....fitted with the standard motor , let alone a diesel....the noise will start to get to you as will the stiff suspension, the drafts, the not being able to hear the radio.
Tall drivers are not ideal for 101s and most remove the spare wheel so the drivers seat can be mounted further back
Push a old series 2a long at 100kph for a few hours and thats the story.

I am not trying to push anything ..........but I have been around abit and as I said each to there own.
The best mod you could do to a 101 besides some cabin vents is a Zeus disc brake conversion , overdrive and a detroit in the bum.
101s great vehicles, modern vehicles easier to live with.

[The ho har's]

Insulate the engine cover and properly seal the join around its edge and not much heat gets in. Take the door tops off and there is plenty of air flow through. In hot weather when I have to drive with the sides on and door tops on, I open the little flap behind the drivers seat and as long as the windows are open there is reasonable airflow.

Ron has some nice flaps in his footwells that work well.

Garry


WHAT LITLE FLAP????..remembering our has had the drivers seat pushed back for extra leg room. Insulate the engine cover? ours is 10ml thick and still heat gets in have put seals around everything as well . We are working on Disco airvents that can be turned of in cool weather, not that happens much up here;) and that's when you open the boot on the gear stick for hot air;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[lardy]

I'm in an advantage then Ron, the spare is kept in the side locker, plus the right hand stretcher bed has a cavity of about five foot and about three foot wide that used to contain two oxygen canisters happy days for either a fuel tank or gas tank which ever way I go


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[101RRS]

WHAT LITLE FLAP????..remembering our has had the drivers seat pushed back for extra leg room. Insulate the engine cover? ours is 10ml thick and still heat gets in have put seals around everything as well . We are working on Disco airvents that can be turned of in cool weather, not that happens much up here;) and that's when you open the boot on the gear stick for hot air;)

Mrs hh:angel:

The flap in the canvas just behind the driver that has to be lifted up to get the spare in and out.

The standard insulation is Ok for UK climates but not up to scratch for Aust - I replaced mine with better and thicker stuff - keeps the heat down and reduces noise substantially. I found that the rubbers around the engine cover left big gaps at some spots where the heat was getting in - also around the gear lever. I put extra sealing in which has cut down the temp in summer - and stops the cold in winter.

The temperature in my cabin with canvas down etc used to be 15 -20 degrees hotter than outside in summer and regularly was over 50 degrees. Now, with the revised insulation the temp inside is down to about 5 degrees over outside.

I also have a revised heater system that takes a combination of outside air and internal air and blows it out via a 3 speed fan into the cabin - with the heater is off puts a reasonable amount of fresh air into the cabin. The heater struggles a bit in winter down here as the matrix is a bit smaller than the original. The interior needs some insulation on it as the cold does come in through the sheet metal in winter.

Cheers

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Garry

For winter had you thought about installing a barrier between the cargo area and the cab area? You could make something up a little like the fume/light curtain in the FFR, perhaps with a transperant section in the middle, that would keep the warmed air around the front seat occupants instead of trying to warm the entire body. It would make the too small heater seem more efficient.

It could be secured with straps around the hood sticks.

Diana

[101 Ron]

Garry

For winter had you thought about installing a barrier between the cargo area and the cab area? You could make something up a little like the fume/light curtain in the FFR, perhaps with a transperant section in the middle, that would keep the warmed air around the front seat occupants instead of trying to warm the entire body. It would make the too small heater seem more efficient.

It could be secured with straps around the hood sticks.

Diana

A fume barrier is part of a standard GS 101 army kit.
Alloy body and the cold just goes though the thin sheet of the front panels in winter resulting in cold legs heater or not.
The same thing happens on the Abercomie rallies sleeping in the back of the 101........all that alloy acts like a chiller and it takes a thick materess to keep warm
Garry and I have been there done that

[101RRS]

Garry

For winter had you thought about installing a barrier between the cargo area and the cab area?

Yep - have a proper fume curtain but the issue is the air flow within the 101. The cabin is a low pressure sucking the air from the rear and outside above the cab is even lower so the canvas balloons up allowing cold air from the rear to bubble up over the top of fume curtain when above about 60kph. Not too bad though with windows closed and fresh air vents closed and I have an inner flap installed to stop cold air being sucked into the cab through the spare wheel flap in the canvas.

In reality when you get to know your vehicle - not such an issue.

In summer, door tops off (stored in the back), sides up, tail gate flap down (helps stop engine fumes), fume curtain rolled up, gear lever boot done up and ventilation hole above the tunnel open with ventilation fan on full. Clothing as appropriate.

In winter - noting it gets really cold here - sides down, ventilation hole above the tunnel closed, fume curtain down, windows closed, gear lever boot undone, heater on full, fan on full (blowing hot air into the footwells), low heavy trousers, warm jacket, my furry beaver hat covering the ears, gloves and a scarf to stop the cold air over the back of the neck.

Took a while to suss things out but quite happy in all weathers.

Garry

[Recy Mech]

Just came across this website, some of you probably have come across it before. Anyway, goes into some detail on the conversion of a 101 including the engine from petrol to diesel. Beaut bit of 3D stuff as well.

The Beast - Land Rover 101 Forward Control rebuild (http://www.arewethereyet.eu/Beast/index.html)

Makes it look seamless. No doubt a number of teeth gnashing moments, well if it was me. I reckon it does have merit......if you've got the cash to spend.

[stuee]

There's also this one which fits a chevy diesel v8:
Andr's 101FC Site (http://www.aeware.nl/)

[isuzurover]

There's also this one which fits a chevy diesel v8:
Andr's 101FC Site (http://www.aeware.nl/)

Best avoided. The Chev V8 diesels are horrible, inefficient, unreliable boat anchors.

Just ask Bush65. I will leave you to guess what the "65" in his username refers to...

[stuee]

Best avoided. The Chev V8 diesels are horrible, inefficient, unreliable boat anchors.

Just ask Bush65. I will leave you to guess what the "65" in his username refers to...

Agree. Was just posting it up to show that just about any motor can be fitted with a bit of forethought and effort.

I'd still be arguing that a Jap truck with a camper body on the back would be a better solution but if his minds made up then anything can be done.

[isuzurover]

Agree. Was just posting it up to show that just about any motor can be fitted with a bit of forethought and effort.

I'd still be arguing that a Jap truck with a camper body on the back would be a better solution but if his minds made up then anything can be done.

Agreed on the first part. If a chev 6.5 will fit, then an Isuzu 4BD1T would be a doddle.

As for the 2nd part, a lot can be accomplished with appropriate sound and heat insulation. Won't fix the driving position though...

Personally, I think it would be quite cool, and may just squeeze under the GVM (and wheel) limit for tracks that only allow "standard 4x4s" - like the first 9(?) wells of the CSR.

[stuee]

like the first 9(?) wells of the CSR.

I honestly never knew this. I would have guessed you couldn't drag a semi down there but thought an isuzu npr type truck would be acceptable. Lucky my retirement is another 40 years off I can make new plans :D

To me the appeal of the 101 is going back to basics. Throw in a swag, a couple of boxes of camping supplies and a couple of 200L drums of fuel then hit the road. Although I cant picture doing it in a Ambulance model. No canvas to raise to get the air blowing through and would heat up like an oven in the sun.

Dead keen to go down south fishing in mine when its done and maybe even to Steep point with the assistance of a few 200L drums.

[isuzurover]

I honestly never knew this. I would have guessed you couldn't drag a semi down there but thought an isuzu npr type truck would be acceptable. Lucky my retirement is another 40 years off I can make new plans :D

To me the appeal of the 101 is going back to basics. Throw in a swag, a couple of boxes of camping supplies and a couple of 200L drums of fuel then hit the road. Although I cant picture doing it in a Ambulance model. No canvas to raise to get the air blowing through and would heat up like an oven in the sun.

Dead keen to go down south fishing in mine when its done and maybe even to Steep point with the assistance of a few 200L drums.

Anything with 6 wheels is automatically out for the first part of the CSR. Unimogs are also out. Other 4x4s, then you woould have to convince the property owner that it is no worse than a 110 or 130.


I can't believe people would be happy carting around multiple 44 gal drums of petrol in a vehicle (that has been proven to be tippy offroad).

For starters, it is illegal to carry >250L.


WESTERN AUSTRALIA

The WA Dangerous Goods Act 1988, and Dangerous Goods (Transport) (Road and Rail) Regulations
1999, contains the relevant regulations, both of which are based on the Australian Dangerous
Goods Code (ADGC), sixth edition.

The maximum permissible quantity is 250 litres of petrol, which should be carried in approved
containers in either the boot or on external brackets. It can be carried within the passenger
compartment, such as the back of a station wagon, in approved, properly restrained containers,
but this is not recommended.
Contact the Explosives and Dangerous Goods Division of the WA Department of Mineral and
Petroleum Resources for further into (08 9222 333)

[Recy Mech]

Best avoided. The Chev V8 diesels are horrible, inefficient, unreliable boat anchors.

Just ask Bush65. I will leave you to guess what the "65" in his username refers to...

Yep, can confirm that the Chev conversion, well the engine is not recommended. A lot of unhappy campers with the conversion.

I think it's not the engine per se, just the engines that are coming over here from the US are already 'fingered', and it's a bit of a mystery bag on what engine you get lumped into your rig.

A guy at one of the sites I worked at here in the Pilbara reckoned he used to work for a conversion company and the complaints just did his head in, so he left for the mines.

[123rover50]

Sorry to butt in here. I built my 6x6 with chev V8 in the FC to do the CSR.
That was 10 yrs ago.Have not got there yet. Whats this about 6 wheels etc being banned. Can you give a link perhaps.
Thanks.
Keith

[isuzurover]

Sorry to butt in here. I built my 6x6 with chev V8 in the FC to do the CSR.
That was 10 yrs ago.Have not got there yet. Whats this about 6 wheels etc being banned. Can you give a link perhaps.
Thanks.
Keith

Wells 2-9 are on private stations.

Exploroz has this:

Trailer Restrictions
Strictly no trailers or wide-track vehicles can be taken on the section of track between Wells 2 - 5. In this case you MUST take the alternative route via Glen-Ayle or Granite Peak stations.

You need to call the property owner for permission to traverse the well 2-5 section. When I called, the station owner wanted to know what type of vehicles we had. She stipulated no trailers, no 6x6, and no large 4x4 e.g. unimogs were specifically mentioned.

Those with 6x6s and trailers usually enter/exit at Well 9. So you can do wells 9 and up. However there is some nice country on the first part.

[101RRS]

I also saw that on ExplorerOz and asked what was the authority and didn't get a straight answer.

Is the land privately owned or lease - most likely lease.

Is the CSR a gazzetted public road that crosses private land in which case the owners cannot stipulate what travels on it - I do not know the answers and when I have asked never got reliable answers other than testimonials. Do the "owners" have the authority to put restrictions on use? I know of a few examples of public roads that cross private land and owners try to lock the roads and place restrictions on use but they do not have the authority to do so. All depends on the status of the road.

Supposedly nothing that has track larger than a troopy can use that section of the CSR so that puts out many larger 4wds like a 200 series and certainly a 101.

Garry

[isuzurover]

I also saw that on ExplorerOz and asked what was the authority and didn't get a straight answer.

Is the land privately owned or lease - most likely lease.

Is the CSR a gazzetted public road that crosses private land in which case the owners cannot stipulate what travels on it - I do not know the answers and when I have asked never got reliable answers other than testimonials. Do the "owners" have the authority to put restrictions on use? I know of a few examples of public roads that cross private land and owners try to lock the roads and place restrictions on use but they do not have the authority to do so. All depends on the status of the road.

Supposedly nothing that has track larger than a troopy can use that section of the CSR so that puts out many larger 4wds like a 200 series and certainly a 101.

Garry

The current CSR route deviates from the original (gazetted) CSR through most of Cunyu station (wells 2-5).

When we did the canning we got >50 mm of rain. The local authority were reportedly fining people $10000 per axle if they were caught travelling south on the tanami.

I am sure the local authority fully supports the restrictions that Cunyu Station place on access.

EDIT:


This section of track has been realigned by Cunyu Station to bypass a notoriously boggy section. Cunyu is a private leaseholder and much of the rest of the CSR is unclaimed crown land. Cunyu is just a small station, operated by a husband and wife team. Tourists travelling the Canning during the peak winter months conflict with Cunyu's mustering operations and this has caused the station many problems in the past when travellers have become bogged and stranded requiring help which has interrupted their mustering.
Windich Springs
So Cunyu decided it was best for all if the original track was realigned for the benefit of both travellers and their operations and since this track passes through their property they have exercised their right to impose some regulations on the use of their track.

The above sounds reasonable to me ... but there is always someone who wants to spoil it for the rest of us... When I spoke to the station owner, she sounded like a nice and reasonable person, and I am sure she would be happy to allow 101s through if it were explained that they are no heavier than a normal landrover.

[lardy]

Thanks for the input guys, and staying on the subject matter was really good,as sometimes topics get hijacked and people end up talking about god knows what,least it didn't happen here.
Can't wait to fit the diesel and junk that poxy v8 now


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[101RRS]

Thanks for the input guys, and staying on the subject matter was really good,as sometimes topics get hijacked and people end up talking about god knows what,least it didn't happen here.
Can't wait to fit the diesel and junk that poxy v8 now


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So what diesel have you decided on?

[lardy]

I have seen two gmc 6.2 diesels scary huge but I think a land rover lump is probable


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[101RRS]

As previously highlighted, the 101 is already front heavy, so if you do use an alternative engine that is much heavier than standard you will need to have a look at (as a minimum) alternative springs for the front. Maybe even worse for an ambo over a GS due to the ambos considerable weight.

I understand the "101 rumble" in the ambo is less pronounced due to its increased weight causing the vehicle to sit a bit lower and reduce the angle on the front driveshaft - nevertheless if you do re-engine I would take the opportunity to lower the drivers side of the engine/gearbox unit in the chassis to further reduce driveshaft angles.

Garry

[lardy]

Would you not be of the mind set that the back body on the Ambo being substantially heavier would lend itself to even out the nose dive potential on braking not that I fancy the idea of a whopping great big 6.2 yank ?


---
I am here: Google Maps
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[lardy]

And after reading your last piece again valid point on the lower centre of gravity


---
I am here: Google Maps
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[101RRS]

Would you not be of the mind set that the back body on the Ambo being substantially heavier would lend itself to even out the nose dive potential on braking not that I fancy the idea of a whopping great big 6.2 yank ?

Not talking about nose diving under braking - the front is just heavy - particularly with one or two beefy people sitting over the front wheels. Then adding a couple of hundred extra kgs from something like a 3.9 Isuzu or something of similar weight will simply require extra work on the front suspension.

[isuzurover]

Not talking about nose diving under braking - the front is just heavy - particularly with one or two beefy people sitting over the front wheels. Then adding a couple of hundred extra kgs from something like a 3.9 Isuzu or something of similar weight will simply require extra work on the front suspension.

The 3.9 isn't that much heavier than a V8. IME the front springs on a 101FC are quitre stiff (though haven't calculated it).

DaveS on here used to own a Stage 1 3.9D with 2-leaf rocky mountain parabolics. Despite the RM parabolics being "one size fits all" the ride height is very similar on V8 and 3.9Ds fitted with the same front springs.

[lardy]

Yeah I think although the Isuzu has lots of grunt (apparently) it chews gearboxes quicker than you can say where's my wallet!
I think that there are some land rover diesel options that have been proven, that should do the job.
It's a pity that we don't have the diesel p38 lump here that was a 3.something or other I believe.


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[101 Ron]

A non turbo Isuzu pulls no harder than a 3.5 loaded or not.
TDI pulls no harder than the 3.5 loaded or not.
The 3.5 has a working rev range of 500rpm to 5000rpm(and sometimes more)
A diesel has a working rev range of 500 to 4000rpm
4.6 rover eight is a direct bolt in fit, no enginneering and is no heavier than a 3.5 and low cost.
I note the Isuzu turbo in the army Perentie in time gives the transfercase a hard time.
Fairely overdrive wouldnt be possible on a powerful diesel.
4.7 diff ratio if used with a Diesel, will gear up the low range and spread the high range ratios further apart and make you rev the diesel harder between gear changes in the diesel narrower rev range.
Transfer high ratio change alone will not be enough with 5.56 diff ratios.
To fit a diesel the transfercase cannnot be moved rearwards or forwards due to tailshaft issuses, so any gearbox change or longer engine change will require moving the engine and radiator forward and chopping of the fan tunnel and the gearshift and engine cover always ends up much higher and much changed.
Steering and brakes on a 101 are OK for its time and original design for army convoy speeds...........all would need a rethink.
101 hubs are different from other rover vehicles as is its steering box.


I am just pointing out facts.
One of the things I like about the 101 is its flexiable motor especially in top gear where it will pull smoothly from 20mph though to 75mph and is happy to do it.
How much noise is that diesel going to make a few inches away from the driver?
How much is this going to cost with engineering ?

Would have been better off buying a ex rural fire service dual cabin Mazda 4x4 or Mitsubishi with a diesel with good brakes, steering and fit what ever body you need.........the jap trucks will not ride any worse and you will be able to hear the radio too .
Ron

[101 Ron]

TDI motor in a 101 ?
Less reliable than the 3.5?
Will need the pommie bell housing from Zeus and the TDI will work better on a 5 speed box than a 4 speed.
The TDI will go no better and it has to be worked alot more gearbox wise to keep it happy as there is little below 1800 rpm and the 4 speed box is not as slick as the 5 speed boxes the TDI is usually mated too.
The five speed boxes are all longer than the 4 speed......remember the 101s special short bellhousing.
The five speed R380 is interesting though a 101s remote gearshift too as the the throw is very, very much shorter and it is alittle harder to find the gear, the R380 box works best with its standard gearchange set up.
The LT95 gearbox and transfercase combination is one of rovers strongest.
Of all the land rovers I have driven the 101 is the one where they almost got it perfectly right for its designed application.

[101RRS]

The 3.9 isn't that much heavier than a V8. IME the front springs on a 101FC are quitre stiff (though haven't calculated it).

I understood that the 3.9 diesel is almost double the weight of 3.5 V8.

I am basing my comments on the experience of others who have replaced the original engine with heavier engines. Yes the front springs are stiff but compared to the unladen rear, quite loaded up. I know from my own vehicle that the front does not need much more weight up front.

I am not sure there is any real advantage performance wise in going to an older diesel. I have seen vehicles with a 300tdi and a Mazda diesel and there is no real performance improvement and not the improvement in fuel consumption that would be expected.

I think a 4.6 properly setup on gas would be the go.

Garry

[slug_burner]

I understood that the 3.9 diesel is almost double the weight of 3.5 V8.

I am basing my comments on the experience of others who have replaced the original engine with heavier engines. Yes the front springs are stiff but compared to the unladen rear, quite loaded up. I know from my own vehicle that the front does not need much more weight up front.

I am not sure there is any real advantage performance wise in going to an older diesel. I have seen vehicles with a 300tdi and a Mazda diesel and there is no real performance improvement and not the improvement in fuel consumption that would be expected.

I think a 4.6 properly setup on gas would be the go.

Garry

One word "range"

[isuzurover]

I understood that the 3.9 diesel is almost double the weight of 3.5 V8.

I am basing my comments on the experience of others who have replaced the original engine with heavier engines. Yes the front springs are stiff but compared to the unladen rear, quite loaded up. I know from my own vehicle that the front does not need much more weight up front.

I am not sure there is any real advantage performance wise in going to an older diesel. I have seen vehicles with a 300tdi and a Mazda diesel and there is no real performance improvement and not the improvement in fuel consumption that would be expected.

I think a 4.6 properly setup on gas would be the go.

Garry

The rover 3.5 V8 is ~200 kg dry with ancillaries.
A 4BD1T is 330 kg dry with ancillaries.

The 4BD1T has the best fuel economy in its class. I am not sure what you mean by an "older" diesel? It was used until the mid 90's.

You have to be kidding about the 4.6... Why not just convert it to a jet turbine if you want to throw away fuel... Do you bottle and compress your own farts to refuel in the middle of the canning or the gunbarrel????


101ron - as for all your posts. Most are just trivial matters. If a HS2.8 and a Chev 6.X have been fitted, then a 4BD1T can be fitted. T-case upgrades to mil-spec are available. The ratios can be made to work in a perentie 6x6 with 7.50s and 4.7s, so 9.00s and 5.57s would be fine.

Lardy - the 4BD1T would be far better than any LR engine option. The gearbox would be fine, but an Isuzu 6-speed and LT230 would be a good option, and can be made compact enough.





...no, wait, you are of course all correct... a 4BD1T is "old" and outdated (compared to a 101), and a carb 3.5L petrol v8 cannot be improved upon... :D :D :D

[lardy]

Thanks gents,
This is the constructive forum of my peers I was looking for, this has been very helpful, and all aspects will be investigated and assessed upon their merits.
I have to say has no one thought of (if we are going off land rover engine plant territory) the 4.2 pooooootrol lump pulls like puffing billy all day everyday, you really can't knock the early patrol lump for basic bullet proof longevity, draw back being its a bloody long old donk again like the Isuzu offering, but the body weight is similar and I think the chassis is of similar length to a 101 any thoughts?


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[101 Ron]

The nissan should be easier on the drive line than a 4 pot Isuzu, if you were going to do this it would be silly not to improve performance with a turbo diesel 4.2(standard 4.2 nissan non turbo would be no improvement)
I notice most people who support the diesel side of things have not owned a 101with overdrive for a long period.
Lardy, do some miles in your 101 with standard motor and get to know it well.
Overdrive is number one to cruising speed and fuel burn on a 101 with standard motor
Then make your decision
If the speed with overdrive is kept at 80 kph or less at the vehicles aerodynamic best speed and the overdrive keeping the rover 3.5 at it most efficent 2000rpm the fuel burn is supprizingly very good.
Aero dynamics on the 101 play a much bigger part than people realise diesel or not and it is usually only where a petrol motor needs to use full power the fuel burn becomes greatly different.
Work a petrol engine at the right revs and load and you will be supprized.
.

[alan48]

Hi guys,
I have a 3.5 turbo mazda diesel in my 101 camper with the normal RR 4-speed. It uses as samuari conversion and was done a number of years ago--it performs brillantly and does about 16ltrs/100 km with the heavy 'motorhome' body. Engine is from Mazda 4wd truck and same as in old Ford Traders. No way could I afford to run a petrol motor. Also has PAS done by Anthony Johnson in Melbourne.

[101RRS]

Isuzurover,

I have offered my point of view without sarcasm and I can see there is little point in offering counter views as you seem to always look at the Isuzu through rose coloured glasses.

Lardy - you have a number of 101 operators on here who have already been through a lot of the considerations that you are going through now. many other comentators are basing their views on other landrover products and have no 101 experience - it is a vastly different experience.

101 Ron has helped me immensely and I have invariably found his advice to be spot on and I suggest you consider his advice carefully.

Whatever configuration you go for you must keep the transfer case in its current position - the driveshafts already operate outside of specifications and moving one way or the other will cause driveshaft grief. Other people have tried a myriad of options and not resolved the issue. If the gearbox and engine you choose is going to be longer than original then major modifications to the tunnel and changes to the weight distribution will be required.

As Ron has indicated - weight until you get your vehicle - drive it a bit and if you still think changes are needed then go for it.

Alan has just posted he is getting 16l/100km from his Mazda powered 101 (a nice 101 it is too) - on road at cruising 90-100kph I get 20l/100km from my 3.5 V8 petrol (gas about 25l/100km). A well set up dual fuel system 4.6 V8 will do a little better due to its better torque - the one area where the 3.5v8 does drop off a bit is long hills on the highway.

Garry

[rovercare]

Garry, remote travel is alot different, your fuel consumption will sky rocket, it's no good quoteing on road figures, this mean little when traversing sand dunes, the little Mazda will stay similar and the petrol will double, maybe triple

I think you see the rover 8 through rose colored glasses:)

If he wanted to improve horsepower and economy with an 8, I'd slip an lsx in it, but range will still suffer in the slow stuff

And again, you think carrying large amounts of petrol is a smart idea? Your kidding right?

[rovercare]

The nissan should be easier on the drive line than a 4 pot Isuzu, if you were going to do this it would be silly not to improve performance with a turbo diesel 4.2(standard 4.2 nissan non turbo would be no improvement)
I notice most people who support the diesel side of things have not owned a 101with overdrive for a long period.
Lardy, do some miles in your 101 with standard motor and get to know it well.
Overdrive is number one to cruising speed and fuel burn on a 101 with standard motor
Then make your decision
If the speed with overdrive is kept at 80 kph or less at the vehicles aerodynamic best speed and the overdrive keeping the rover 3.5 at it most efficent 2000rpm the fuel burn is supprizingly very good.
Aero dynamics on the 101 play a much bigger part than people realise diesel or not and it is usually only where a petrol motor needs to use full power the fuel burn becomes greatly different.
Work a petrol engine at the right revs and load and you will be supprized.
.

? Every vehicle uses far less fuel cruising at 80 instead of 100, I think it's the effects of drag...

[chazza]

Alan has just posted he is getting 16l/100km from his Mazda powered 101 (a nice 101 it is too) - on road at cruising 90-100kph I get 20l/100km from my 3.5 V8 petrol (gas about 25l/100km). A well set up dual fuel system 4.6 V8 will do a little better due to its better torque - the one area where the 3.5v8 does drop off a bit is long hills on the highway.

Garry

I have calculated the following; given today's fuel prices in my town and using Alan's and Garry's figures.
A 100km journey will cost:
Alan $26-92
Garry $30 of ULP
or $32.22 of PULP
or $26-92 of LPG
If Garry's consumption figure is for ULP, then the PULP economy will be better, so the price would drop as well.

Given that there is hardly any price difference over 100km, then the cost of a new engine and conversion, doesn't seem so worthwhile unless a phenomenal number of kilometres are to be travelled, or extensive travel is anticipated where petrol is hard to come by,

Cheers Charlie

[isuzurover]

I have calculated the following; given today's fuel prices in my town and using Alan's and Garry's figures.
A 100km journey will cost:
Alan $26-92
Garry $30 of ULP
or $32.22 of PULP
or $26-92 of LPG
If Garry's consumption figure is for ULP, then the PULP economy will be better, so the price would drop as well.

Given that there is hardly any price difference over 100km, then the cost of a new engine and conversion, doesn't seem so worthwhile unless a phenomenal number of kilometres are to be travelled, or extensive travel is anticipated where petrol is hard to come by,

Cheers Charlie

You are right, it is almost impossible to justify an engine conversion on financial grounds. And often difficult to justify an LPG conversion.

However a conversion to a 4.6 as suggested will cost lots of money AND increase fuel consumption.

As posted earlier, you would need to carry illegal quantities of fuel to travel to many remote parts of WA (plus it would be insane IMHO even if legal).

Garry - sorry if you didn't like my joke. I was simply trying to point out the impracticality of a 4.6 on gas - see above for the financial comments...

To counter your points, I think many of the (non diesel) 101 owners posting in this thread have little/no experience of remote area travel, see rover V8's through rose coloured glasses, and are irrationally opposed to modifications. Furthermore, the suggestions of fitting an overdrive won't help fuel consumption in most remote areas, as you won't be going fast enough to use it. E.g., most of the CSR I did in 3rd and 4th, and almost never used 5th. As for the comments about going slower - well that is elementary. Drag force increases with velocity squared.

Lardy, the TD42T is a great engine, but will put the weight even further forward. Personally I would go for a large 4 - the mazda that Alan has is also a reasonable option.

If you want a more "modern" option, then the 4H series isuzu diesels are good, but cannot be mated to the LT95.

[lardy]

Isuzurover, I hope I can trust you to come help me do the job if I go Isuzu lol


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[jakeslouw]

Hi guys,
I have a 3.5 turbo mazda diesel in my 101 camper with the normal RR 4-speed. It uses as samuari conversion and was done a number of years ago--it performs brillantly and does about 16ltrs/100 km with the heavy 'motorhome' body. Engine is from Mazda 4wd truck and same as in old Ford Traders. No way could I afford to run a petrol motor. Also has PAS done by Anthony Johnson in Melbourne.

Alan, would that be the Mazda SL35? Do you maybe have the spec for that engine?

[wrinklearthur]

Hi all, I'm dreaming

In my paddock at the moment is a couple of rolling chassis, one is a D1 still with it's auto and 3.5 EFI. The other chassis is a '94 Defender without a motor or gearbox .
Now every time I look at these things as I go past, my inventive side has a turn. what if? If I did this? Is this a way to go? and Hmmm, comes out of me.
(The neighbours do wonder about the old eccentric next door, that walks around talking to himself about the beautiful things in his backyard. :imwithstupid:)

My ideal camper would be based on the Defender chassis, fitted with the V8 and auto in the rear of the chassis, LPG tanks on either side of the chassis for range, the rear engine takes care of heat issues and helps with weight distribution.
The flat deck from the drivers seat to the rear built up housing containing the repositioned V8, would make pulling up for a cuppa or getting into bed in wet weather a lot more pleasant.

The body would be something like a cut down short nose van body, then fitted out as a camper.

Dream on !
.

[123rover50]

Arthur, we all have dreams. I had been dreaming of the 6x6 FC for years before I got around to building it.
Instead of a cut down van front, stick to Landy and make it like a Carmichael Forward Control. Not as high as a 2a, 2b or 101 and the body panels look easy.
Putting the engine in the back, cooling ducting may be a problem.
Keith

[lardy]

As for a conversion not being worth it, you guys are not really getting the point- I like 101's and I like diesel, if the v8 was efficient as a modern petrol then just maybe I would stick with it, but actually I doubt that lol.
The other point to raise is that this vehicle is gonna be my grand tourer to be used now but kept until I retire (one would hope)
Also unlike most of you guys I have NO missus, I have NO kids, and I have NO mortgage an enviable position to be in on such an undertaking!!
So I am swapping out one ball and chain for another lol



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[lardy]

Hi guys,
I have a 3.5 turbo mazda diesel in my 101 camper with the normal RR 4-speed. It uses as samuari conversion and was done a number of years ago--it performs brillantly and does about 16ltrs/100 km with the heavy 'motorhome' body. Engine is from Mazda 4wd truck and same as in old Ford Traders. No way could I afford to run a petrol motor. Also has PAS done by Anthony Johnson in Melbourne.

Alan have you any shots of the Mazda lump in situ, also is that a naturally aspirated version ??


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[lardy]

Arthur, we all have dreams. I had been dreaming of the 6x6 FC for years before I got around to building it.
Instead of a cut down van front, stick to Landy and make it like a Carmichael Forward Control. Not as high as a 2a, 2b or 101 and the body panels look easy.
Putting the engine in the back, cooling ducting may be a problem.
Keith

Hi Keith,
I understand yours is Isuzu powered according to the HH's is that correct ?
Have you any issues with heat?
Noisier than it ever was?
And does it pull well ?
That is the issue I have mainly people seem speed obsessed, it's a 101 house brick as long as it has torque for doing what it was designed for it should be awesome.
Have you any pictures kicking about the place?
Andy


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[123rover50]

Hi Keith,
I understand yours is Isuzu powered according to the HH's is that correct ?
Have you any issues with heat?
Noisier than it ever was?
And does it pull well ?
That is the issue I have mainly people seem speed obsessed, it's a 101 house brick as long as it has torque for doing what it was designed for it should be awesome.
Have you any pictures kicking about the place?
Andy


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Not sure which one you mean
I have a 2B I bought in Bougainville in 1972 and brought back to OZ in 1980. Its now got an Isuzu 3.9 NA in front of an LT95. Its taken us the usual places. Cape York in the 80,s and the French Line in the 90,s with no Issues.
The other I built up from scratch from 6x6 Perentie bits that were bought up from a JRA sale. This was before I had a computor and had not researched much. I fitted the 6.2 Chev diesel in front of an auto as it was easier to work the gear change. Ran really hot. Two coolers on the donk and two on the auto. Then fitted the biggest radiator I could fit in, out of a Volvo truck, and later swaped the auto for aan Isuzu MSA box. Best thing I ever did. Now runs cooler and easier with the manual as opposed to the auto.
No issues with the V8 as yet but if I was doing it again I would probably fit the 4bd1T to the same box.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/fcs-military-variations/21074d1261099044t-how-many-civilian-forward-controls-there-dsc00807.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/fcs-military-variations/21074d1261099044-how-many-civilian-forward-controls-there-dsc00807.jpg)

The 2b used to have a camper body but its off just now.
Keith

Sorry about the thumbnail. It was copied from one of my other threads in this forum and does not seem to expand.

[lardy]

Lovely jobs they look the dogs bits, you have a bit more length there the bulkheads are a little deeper on yours.
Opposed to the 101, two of em hey spoilt or what?


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[alan48]

Hi all,
my diesel is the turbo version and is in the SL series of motors. It was blueprinted and balanced by the previous owner and runs a high speed geared transfer case RR4 speed. At one stage we did have some cooling issues but solved with some ducting plate under the radiator and getting the pump overhauled. We run twin alternators to charge 2 house batteries and one starting battery (ie separate charging systems), PAS, it has a Mc Nammara rear diff lock and exhaust brakes as well and we are now running 315 size Maxxis tyres after importing some 8inch 101 rims from the UK to open up our tyre choice-previously it ran Silverstone MT117 in 285/85 x16 but poor wear on this car. Will try to find some engine photos. The previous owner imported a samuari conversion kit from the UK.

[isuzurover]

Hi all,
my diesel is the turbo version and is in the SL series of motors. It was blueprinted and balanced by the previous owner and runs a high speed geared transfer case RR4 speed. At one stage we did have some cooling issues but solved with some ducting plate under the radiator and getting the pump overhauled. We run twin alternators to charge 2 house batteries and one starting battery (ie separate charging systems), PAS, it has a Mc Nammara rear diff lock and exhaust brakes as well and we are now running 315 size Maxxis tyres after importing some 8inch 101 rims from the UK to open up our tyre choice-previously it ran Silverstone MT117 in 285/85 x16 but poor wear on this car. Will try to find some engine photos. The previous owner imported a samuari conversion kit from the UK.

Looks like a very nicely set up 101!

So - how comfortable is it for touring?



Isuzurover, I hope I can trust you to come help me do the job if I go Isuzu lol
...

Happy to help - you might have to pay my flight/fuel though ;)

[lardy]

Awesome looking truck, what is an SL engine? Are you running discs(rotors) or shoes on your brake system ?


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[jakeslouw]

Mazda SL35T probably. Copy of the Perkins.

[123rover50]

Mazda SL35T probably. Copy of the Perkins.

Which Perkins?

[jakeslouw]

4.212. I think.

[DasLandRoverMan]

The 3.5 SL engine is a Perkins design, but specifically for, and only ever manufactured by Mazda.

On technicality it's Perkins, but in reality it's 100% Mazda.

[lardy]

Will a 300tdi lump go up against the 101 4speed with an adapter plate ?
With the addition of an overdrive it might be ok



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[isuzurover]

Will a 300tdi lump go up against the 101 4speed with an adapter plate ?
With the addition of an overdrive it might be ok

...

Sorry, but you would have to be crazy to contemplate fitting a 300Tdi...

[wrinklearthur]

Sorry, but you would have to be crazy to contemplate fitting a 300Tdi...

I like 300TDi's, but they would have to have a couple more cylinders grafted on before they would have enough grunt to keep the 101 rolling happily up and down dale.
.

[101RRS]

Sorry, but you would have to be crazy to contemplate fitting a 300Tdi...

We might have a different view of the old 3.9 in the 101 but I have to agree with you on this one - the 300tdi will give you nothing - bad enough in a GS let alone a tubby ambo.

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

I dunno compared to an FC101 fire truck fully loaded being pulled by a series 2.25D the tdi300 would fly along.

fully worked up the tdi300 would be about average for what your asking.

[DasLandRoverMan]

Yes a 300 will fit (there's been a few done) although I agree performance won't be stunning.

You could mess around with a bigger intercooler, play with the pump a bit, and match the ports to the manifolds to make go better (2 out of the 3 are cheap, and made my 300 Tdi 110 fly) although biggest gains would probably come from a VNT turbo kit.

Of course by the time you've bought an engine, sorted it and found an adapter etc you might be as well buying the International 2.8?
Dunno how the import costs would affect it but M&D do the engine complete with a 101 fitting kit for about £5,500.

Worth considering?

[jakeslouw]

If I was going to all the trouble, I'd put a Isuzu 3.9 or something of a similar spec in and get done with it.

[wrinklearthur]

If I was going to all the trouble, I'd put a Isuzu 3.9 or something of a similar spec in and get done with it.

Now your talking!

[lardy]

If I was going to all the trouble, I'd put a Isuzu 3.9 or something of a similar spec in and get done with it.

I doubt one would fit a v8 is slim waisted comparative to the 3.9, that thing fills a 110 engine bay and some!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

With the weight of the 101 you would want the turbo option on the 3.9 4BD1-T and that thing overhangs the chassis rail of the 110 so would be burning the thigh of the front seat passenger. My plans for a SIIb (which have the same chassis width as the 101) were to remote mount the turbo behind the engine above the gearbox bellhousing. It would have a slight lag over the OEM position but would make a viable alternative.

[DasLandRoverMan]

There's a 101 Ambi somewhere in the UK with a 4bd1t in it. It featured in LRE magazine a few years back before it was absorbed into LRM.

Not sure how it went in, but some evidence to suggest it would.
The 3.5 Mazda would probably be a neater job though, it's a much tidier fit in the 110 engine bay.

[lardy]

Damn shame the old gq patrol 4.2 wouldn't fit that might not be fast (but then it's a 4x4) but it pulls great


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[Volkov]

I run a non-turbo Perkins 4.236 in mine. And I wouldn't have it any other way. its 100% mechanical. I had a fire in my dashboard, but I had the foresight to install an electrical disconnect switch for the vehicle electrics. I hit that switch the fire went out but I still could drive it home. No petrol engine can do that

As for the engine, I get good power, and about 9 liters per 100km. It is loud though...I wear earplugs while driving and my friends say they can hear me coming several blocks away

[blitz]

Not that I know the size other than I think it's bigger how about the GM 6V53 donk?

It's aluminium sans the V8, compact, responsive, with the super charger and twin turbos 450hp (not bad for a 318ci motor) but more realistically is the NA which is 180hp if my memory serves correct and in the region of 6/700 ft/lb torque. (all going off of a very unreliable memory) bolts straight up to an Alison 1000 6 speed auto if you wanted.

Just a thought :)

[Sitec]

Don't know why this has popped up again but it has so I'll throw my bit in. Have you done anything yet? We're all curious.... My thoughts... Tdi's are car and 4x4 engines.. Not light truck engines. There is a lot of talk here about big engines and front end weights etc... I ran a 101 on the road as my only vehicle for 4+ yrs in the UK. The first yr was as a V8... Never again. They are insainly thirsty! I then stumbled across what was best described as a 'Big Nissan' in a shed in Somerset.. Think the guy traded as Costal Engineering and he tried to go head to head with Samuri and their 'used' V8's... Anyway, it was a 5.7 lt straight 6 Nissan FD6 found here in the older Nissan 10 tonne trucks (some were badged as Internationals). It is a strong, surprisingly revvy motor. I coupled this 'donk' to the original gearbox, with an overdrive and Series 3 rear Salisbury ring and pinnions (4.7:1 ratio). I fitted a STD third leaf to the front springs and some decent Michelin XCL'S and then drove it everywhere as fast as it could go! (That was the done thing when you were 18 to 25!). It drove really well, went like hell and was affordable 12/100km. The weak link was the overdrive (one a year). IMO, the later TD42t with Patrol gearbox would be ideal. Sit the engine low with the nose and fan where the V8 was. I'm working on a conversion plate to fit the GQ 5 speed box to the LT230. With the transfer box further back the front prop noise is eliminated.. and they are capable of 100 mph (yes miles). Have the ticket to prove it!!:( it was even stable off road, and with a Detroit fitted, would go until the driver chickened out!! Here's a pic of 5.7 litres of Japan's finest between the rails of Solihull's finest! There's more pics in the forward control section under 'My Old 101', tho she's looking pretty sad now! Hope this helps! A well travelled 101 user! PS, sorry about photo quality.. They were taken usin the IPad with old photos! Works tho! :p

[Sitec]

Trawling they Google for something else dragged this thread up AGAIN!! Smiled reading thru it at some of the points of 'what will' and 'what won't fit in a 101!!.. Well, I think I've put most of the 'wont's' to bed!!! Bout time we had another crazy 101 project... Will have to think of one!!:D

[Mick_Marsh]

- hydraulic winch
- stronger axles
- bigger brakes
- bigger wheels to fit over the brakes

Weren't they in the original plan?

[Sitec]

- hydraulic winch
- stronger axles
- bigger brakes
- bigger wheels to fit over the brakes

Weren't they in the original plan?

All but the stronger axles, yes! Wheels r under way.. Having 2 made to see how they look. If they're no good, they'll go under the trailer I'm planning! Bigger brakes and power steering are next. Got a few minor things to do first.. Crack in the exhaust, leaking rear hub seal (after MLB run), diesel leak from pump, etc etc!! I'm having a long overdue workshop blitz tomorrow, then getting the 101 in to do some stuff. Time to get it ready for summer motoring!! Looking forward to removing the door tops, sides etc and rolling the tilt sides up!! :)

[isuzurover]

Trawling they Google for something else dragged this thread up AGAIN!! Smiled reading thru it at some of the points of 'what will' and 'what won't fit in a 101!!.. Well, I think I've put most of the 'wont's' to bed!!! Bout time we had another crazy 101 project... Will have to think of one!!:D

Indeed - I can see 2 or 3 people who should have offered to eat humble pie by now if they were decent chaps. But of course they have not...

[101 Ron]

I am a decent chap and have nothing to be humble about.
I love my 101 with its stock motor.
In the now Seven years I have owned it I have not broken any motor or driveline component or have I spent time which I don't have ,to change things.
The package works for me.
One of the reasons I purchased a 101 is I like the little Rover 8.
I came from early V8 Range rovers and a stage one V8 Land rover.
I will fit a 4.6 V8 when the 3.5 V8 wears out, but in the real world cannot justify the time and money until it does.
I am finding the combination of LPG and petrol suits my needs.
As I said earlier in this thread it is different strokes for different folks.
I will point out if I had time and wanted to do the Canning stock route , Land rover vehicle of choice wouldnt be a 101 Land rover .
A table top defender 130 with air would be a better vehicle and still give the payload of the 101.
really want to do the Canning with comfort.......a D4 with long range tanks ???.
If I wanted a vehicle with diesel, power steering , good ride, I would have purchased one.
Since this thread has started the Perentie ex army landrovers are now advailible.
The 6x6 Perentie would make a excellent Canning stock route vehicle as standard at a cost similar to a 101 without the time spent in converting the vehicle in a big way or without engineering.

[Sitec]

Ron, the V8 is a great engine, and I have to admit, always sound nice in a 101.. If ever you change you're mind, and want to do the Canning in the discomfort of a 101, we'd be in too!!! :)

[JayBoRover]

Ron, the V8 is a great engine, and I have to admit, always sound nice in a 101.. If ever you change you're mind, and want to do the Canning in the discomfort of a 101, we'd be in too!!! :)


Do the CSR in a convoy of 101s! What a fabulous idea!

[Homestar]

Got to admit that the 6x6 Perentie is a great vehicle and after driving one for a couple of hours last weekend, thought really hard about selling the 101 and buying one. Don't panic though - I was talked out of it:). I'll sit and wait until I can buy one outright, then I can take my pick.

[mark_coffey]

Do the CSR in a convoy of 101s! What a fabulous idea!
I didnt think you could fuel dump so close together to do the canning in a 101, let alone a convoy!
although the idea sounds awesome!

[gusthedog]

I didnt think you could fuel dump so close together to do the canning in a 101, let alone a convoy!
although the idea sounds awesome!

Couldn't you just carry 44's and not worry about fuel dumps with a 101 though?

[Sitec]

Fuel dumps... What are those? Drove to Melbourne and back last month without filling up! ;)

[isuzurover]

Couldn't you just carry 44's and not worry about fuel dumps with a 101 though?

As posted earlier in this thread, in WA, one 44 gal drum of petrol is the most you can legally carry.

So you could, but not legally.

[Homestar]

I didnt think you could fuel dump so close together to do the canning in a 101, let alone a convoy!
although the idea sounds awesome!


Probably true actually. :D. You could always stick a 44 in the back to make up the shortfall. Simon would be fine in his - just us petrol lovers would need to carry extra.

Oops, a bit late with my reply, so you ca carry 1 x 44 each? That would give an on highway range of over 1200Km if I was towing my trailer. Not sure what that translates to off road, but would that get you between fuel dumps?

[mark_coffey]

what if we said we were re-enacting the "widest beach in the world" in the wrong continent, 4 101's, 2 with driven trailers and 900 gallons of petrol, they would let us get away with it?

[Mick_Marsh]

The previouus owner of one of my 101's used to strip it to the gunnels, put two 44 gallon drums of fuel in back, and go touring all around the Flinders Ranges.