Lathe buying advice.

[POD]

I have a major birthday approaching and my wife is keen to buy me a metal lathe:); I have a pretty well-equipped workshop and have made no secret over the past few years of how much I would like to add a lathe to it.
As my actual experience with using lathes is very limited, I would appreciate some advice from those with experience in what would be useful in a general home/hobbyist/small acreage workshop. Also a few questions about unfamiliar terms I've come across when looking on the interweb at second-hand lathes.
-If a lathe is described as a 'capstan lathe', does this machine also have the normal toolpost and crossfeed etc of a normal lathe, in addition to the capstan arrangement?
-What is meant by the term 'centre lathe'? Is this the proper term for the familiar general metal turning lathe?
-What is a 'collet lathe'?
-Are the combination lathe/mill/drill machines any good? All the ones I've seen seem to incorporate a lathe that is very small and thus presumably of limited usefulness.
-How much of a factor is the spindle bore size? I had to take a trailer axle to a specialist a few years back when customising the ends to accept LR hub spindles, but I don't know how often jobs that require a large spindle hole might come up.
-What are realistic specifications to look for in a lathe for general home workshop use?
Thanks in anticipation.

[bee utey]

Not much into industrial terms, I suggest you do a bit of wikipedia reading.

Personally I wouldn't touch a combination mill/lathe unless it comes with impressive credentials.

I do know spindle bore size is a good indicator of head stock stiffness, resistance to tool chatter comes from a stiff headstock.

I have a small WW2 era "Qualos" geared head lathe which I bought 30 years ago, I can get a 22mm bar up the headstock but it really needs to be bigger. Virtually anything that I machine longer than 25mm or so gets a live centre into it to steady it. I hardly ever do screw cutting, it's a very exacting process. Where taps and dies are available I use them. Mind you, when I was young, time rich but penniless I made my own Ryco style air connectors, oil filter adaptors, driveshafts, tapered lathe tool adaptors etc. I would have liked one big enough to do brakes, flywheels etc but I don't do them enough to worry now.:)

[isuzutoo-eh]

My experience is with a watchmaker's lathe and some friend's hobby lathes and mills-but my knowledge is limited.
Collets are usually far more accurate than a 3 jaw chuck but you need lots of them as each collet only does a small range of sizes. A 4 jaw chuck can be as accurate but takes longer to set up each time.
Combo lathe/mill machines are conveniant only due to size, most are a pain to change between operations. One of my friends has had a combo machine for years, but bought another lathe and mill as well. He has now set up the combo to use the lathe head as an indexed horizontal rotary table, which is pretty nifty but i haven't ever seen anything useful made with it.

I'm getting a small cnc mill for work soon :)

[Recy Mech]

Been chatting to a couple of rev-heads at BHP who race their (speedway) cars up and around the Pilbara, and from their recommendation as one owns a number of machines for his own rebuilds.

This bad boy is both a lathe and milling machine and for the price you can't go wrong.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L159

Actually, this company which is in Melbourne is the best they reckon for buy home machinery 'stuff'.

[p38arover]

This bad boy is both a lathe and milling machine and for the price you can't go wrong.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L159


https://images.machineryhouse.com.au/L159/0/375

Oddly enough, I bought one of those, took it with me to Norfolk Island, never used it and ended up selling it before I came home.

Would I buy another? Hmm. Probably not but I can't give you any real reason why not except it was a bit limited in capability. I should look at it again. I'd like to finish the Stuart 10V steam engine I started 25 years ago.

[bee utey]

Keep an eye on this one, looks like a good size:

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Lathe-HERLESS-160sk-Stand-Excellent-condition-/380410069742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item58923502ee)

or this

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/METAL-LATHE-/270914381346?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3f13c16622

[JDNSW]

Been chatting to a couple of rev-heads at BHP who race their (speedway) cars up and around the Pilbara, and from their recommendation as one owns a number of machines for his own rebuilds.

This bad boy is both a lathe and milling machine and for the price you can't go wrong.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L159

Actually, this company which is in Melbourne is the best they reckon for buy home machinery 'stuff'.


I have one of them (different brand but same thing). I find it extremely useful for all sorts of things, way better than no lathe. But it is limited in size, and milling capability is very limited.

In general, get the largest you can afford (and have space for), but the best value is likely to be someone else's hobby lathe from a deceased estate or someone going into a retirement home. The reason for this is that it probably has all the extras that will be extra cost if you buy a new one.

John

[POD]

Keep an eye on this one, looks like a good size:

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Lathe-HERLESS-160sk-Stand-Excellent-condition-/380410069742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item58923502ee)

or this

METAL LATHE | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/METAL-LATHE-/270914381346?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3f13c16622)

Both look like just the sort of thing. Unfortunately I don't have 3-phase power to the shed, not wanting to part with the money to connect.

[bee utey]

My little lathe was 3 phase. I just bought a suitable single phase motor for it. The only thing it doesn't do is reverse electrically. I have coped with that.:)

[POD]

I have one of them (different brand but same thing). I find it extremely useful for all sorts of things, way better than no lathe. But it is limited in size, and milling capability is very limited.

In general, get the largest you can afford (and have space for), but the best value is likely to be someone else's hobby lathe from a deceased estate or someone going into a retirement home. The reason for this is that it probably has all the extras that will be extra cost if you buy a new one.

John

Yeah I've always thought the way to go would be to get someone's lifetime of accumulated accessories and tooling rather than start from scratch. I'm thinking perhaps I'd be better to go for a fair-dinkum size lathe rather than one that can do a limited amount of 3 things. I already have a good drill press.
Saw one advertised yesterday that is 15 meters between centres with a 4.5 metre swing. Reckon that would be big enough for most of my stuff.:D But it was 3-phase.

[p38arover]

Saw one advertised yesterday that is 15 meters between centres with a 4.5 metre swing. Reckon that would be big enough for most of my stuff.:D But it was 3-phase.

When I lived in Ceduna, I was offered one for free from the local new car dealer, Crouch Motors. The catch was that I had to shift it. I didn't think the company I worked for would appreciate it in my company-owned house.

[clubagreenie]

Don't buy a 6m centres you'll never get around to building the shed to fit it and it's a pain to store the pieces and the setup cost to align the beds was incredible.

I actually have a mill, always wanted a lathe until I got a mill. Wouldn't have a combo machine for quids though.

[87County]

I have had an older hafco 1000mm 240v belt drive job for nearly 40 years and it has proved invaluable

If I was to buy new again I would get the present 1000mm geared head equivalent which has a 500mm swing (which will cover most requirements I could ever think of) - and it will have 4 & 3 jaw chucks. 3 jaw chucks are really only intended to be used for holding an already machined item but I think most hobbyists use them for more than that. You'll need to spend time learning to set up jobs in a 4 jaw chuck.

The spindle size will be adequate for any large long item that you or I should be turning - if it won't fit we would be well advised to take it to the local tame engineer.

here 'tis K036 | AL-340A Centre Lathe Package with Tooling Accessories | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/K036)

Tipped tools are readily available for general turning, threading etc, but I still often use tool steel sharpened specific to the job - you can buy a milling slide (which will handle small jobs) for a centre lathe.

There are heaps of introductory books available, hafco sell one that I'm told is OK - if I were you I'd go to a tech college library for a look at what is available

Like all power tools, lathes can be very dangerous items of equipment for the inexperienced and will cause very serious injury if you were to get caught on a job which was turning or if the job came loose. It would be a very big plus to do a fitter machinist or even a hobby course (I don't think NSW tafe still has them), or if that isn't available, get an old tradesman to give you a thorough run down on hopefully more than one visit because even the basics (like leaving a chuck key in the chuck) are not always obvious to a newcomer.

A capstan lathe is usually used for repetion engineering jobs and few would be 240v -

I would leave the combo mill drills alone - I know I would be disappointed in one. There are reasonable 240v mills available although those with power feeds will cost more.

If you haven't had any experience with mills .... leave them alone till you get to know what you need it for (and then you'll need to do the training on it or it too will rip your fingers off)

No apologies for being a scare-monger; seen too many serious injuries from power tools





..........however - with 3D printers becoming a reality - it won't be long before we need neither mills nor lathes ... http://www.3d-printers.com.au/2012/02/09/3d-printed-jaw-implanted-into-an-83yr-old-woman/

[isuzutoo-eh]

A proper combo machine could be perfect... check out the screw cutting speed of this:
VIDEOS (http://shoptask.com/shoptask/shop/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=29)
But $5000 plus tooling and everything else...hmmm can buy a County for that money!

[p38arover]

My first lathe was a an Emco Unimal SL which could also be used as a mill. :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/621.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/622.jpg

My current lathe is a very old and small Australian-made Argus which is similar to a Myford.

[33chinacars]

This is more what I'd be looking for. But may be well out of your price range. I too wanted a lathe for building racecar parts. Just never go around to buying one. There were some chinese lathes with simular specs at one stage for about half the price. Probably worth looking for.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/K036

Gary

[33chinacars]

This already posted is only single phase and I think would be ideal.

Metal Lathe HERLESS 160sk & Stand Excellent condition | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Lathe-HERLESS-160sk-Stand-Excellent-condition-/380410069742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item58923502ee&clk_rvr_id=316788134075)

Gary

[clubagreenie]

That is a good basic lathe, they are well made and whats used in TAFES these days so they stand up to abuse well and more importantly you can get all the replacement parts for them.

[spudboy]

I thought these were the best option for my needs. Not professional quality but good enough for DIY use, and quite modestly priced for the size:

New 36"X12" Geared Head Metal Lathe With Coolant Pump+Worklight+Stand Cabinet | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-36-X12-Geared-Head-Metal-Lathe-Coolant-Pump-Worklight-Stand-Cabinet-/270915137410?pt=AU_Hardware&hash=item3f13ccef82)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/492.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/493.jpg

I was after something single phase only, which this one was. Assembling it was a bit 'interesting' as it weighed over 500Kg. Needed an engine hoist to lift up the top section to put it on top of the blue stand.

Seller is reliable - I have bought many things from him (OzMeStore), and he has smaller/bigger ones of similar design. This one is at $1550-odd ATM, but would expect it to go a bit higher (+ $200-odd) before the end of the auction..

HTH
David

[POD]

Thanks for all the replies, I think a lathe is something that get's any tinkerer's blood flowing. I am not in a desperate hurry on this (sadly!) as the big birthday isn't until the end of the year, but my dear wife wisely decided to involve me in the gift purchase rather than surprise me with something that might not be quite the lathe I had in mind. At this stage I'm really just wanting to educate myself a bit so that the online browsing in particular can be a bit more intelligent. One thing I have noticed over the past while (I've window-shopped lathes on eBay for probably a couple of years now) is that there are plenty out there and suitable machines seem to come up fairly frequently. They also get plenty of bids! And about 90% of them are in Sydney for some reason.
I'm a little wary of buying one of the chinese machines, I feel that possibly a british or american machine that already has a few years on it will probably still be serviceable when these are scrap; on the other hand, with the amount of use a home lathe will get, perhaps one of the chinese jobs would do just fine. Would really love some interpretation of all those terms I mentioned earlier.

[spudboy]

Mine is made in China, but the quality is not bad at all. If you were a professional machine shop, you'd probably want a proper name branded one (I think mine is Macho brand!!) but for the amount of use it gets I couldn't justify it. Have fun shopping though - that's half the fun :p

BTW - I got some nice HSS tools for it from Arthur Warner & Co in the USA. They were very efficient at shipping them out, and sell them in little kits. I had a few questions, and quickly got an answer back from the owner!

High Speed Steel (HSS) tool bits and blanks - Arthur R. Warner Co (http://www.arwarnerco.com/)

[Killer]

I have a major birthday approaching and my wife is keen to buy me a metal lathe:); I have a pretty well-equipped workshop and have made no secret over the past few years of how much I would like to add a lathe to it.
As my actual experience with using lathes is very limited, I would appreciate some advice from those with experience in what would be useful in a general home/hobbyist/small acreage workshop. Also a few questions about unfamiliar terms I've come across when looking on the interweb at second-hand lathes.
-If a lathe is described as a 'capstan lathe', does this machine also have the normal toolpost and crossfeed etc of a normal lathe, in addition to the capstan arrangement? Yes.
-What is meant by the term 'centre lathe'? Is this the proper term for the familiar general metal turning lathe? A centre lathe is what you are familiar with when you think of a lathe, ie. work can be held between centres.
-What is a 'collet lathe'? This lathe will not have a chuck, instead it will have interchangeable collets in the headstock for gripping the work, often found on capstan lathes. Not very useful for general jobbing work, more aimed at production work, as is the capstan lathe itself.
-Are the combination lathe/mill/drill machines any good? All the ones I've seen seem to incorporate a lathe that is very small and thus presumably of limited usefulness. I have had no experience with these machines, but I would imagine their usefulness to be quite limited.
-How much of a factor is the spindle bore size? I had to take a trailer axle to a specialist a few years back when customising the ends to accept LR hub spindles, but I don't know how often jobs that require a large spindle hole might come up. Generally, the bigger the spindle bore, the more useful the lathe will be to you, a bore big enough to fit pipe through to screwcut a thread, for instance would be extremly useful on a small acreage, I would think.
-What are realistic specifications to look for in a lathe for general home workshop use? It depends on space money and how much you are going to use it, many on here have talked about new Chinese or Tiwanese machines, but I think if you have the space, I would go for an older second hand larger machine. They will be slower to operate, possibly require more skill to do the job, but one in half decent condition will stay that way for years, way after the cheap new ones are showing signs of wear. It would be worth considering buying one with a three phase motor, and retrofitting a single phase motor to it.
Thanks in anticipation.

See my comments in blue.

Cheers, Mick.

[Bigbjorn]

What are you going to use it for?

Do you need swing or length or spindle bore to fit your work?

If you are going to do automotive or marine work then sooner or later you are going to have to machine a long shaft. Buy as much length as you can afford.

Do not buy a combination lathe milling machine unless you are only going to do light hobby machining or model making.

Do not buy a machine that requires you to change belts or gears to get the full range of speeds. Ask the sales person to demonstrate this. Salesmen oft-times speak with forked tongues.

Buy only a lathe that has a speed range from around 40 rpm to over 2000 rpm. Slow speed is necessary for screw cutting by amateurs. High speed is necessary to use tungsten carbide tools on small diameter work.

240 volt machines have better resale value than three phase machines.

Buy a milling machine only if you are prepared to spend endless money on tooling, jigs, fixtures etc. If you must, then buy a universal mill with motorised overarm and vertical head. Buy height. The space between the table and the arbor or overarm can shrink when you set up the job in a vise or fixture and mount a cutter.

[Bigbjorn]

Mine is made in China, but the quality is not bad at all. If you were a professional machine shop, you'd probably want a proper name branded one (I think mine is Macho brand!!) but for the amount of use it gets I couldn't justify it. Have fun shopping though - that's half the fun :p

BTW - I got some nice HSS tools for it from Arthur Warner & Co in the USA. They were very efficient at shipping them out, and sell them in little kits. I had a few questions, and quickly got an answer back from the owner!

High Speed Steel (HSS) tool bits and blanks - Arthur R. Warner Co (http://www.arwarnerco.com/)

Those Warner kits seem very expensive to me. I will ask my USA supplier about HSS inserted tools. I didn't think they still existed. Definitely pre-1950 technology. I can supply five piece tool sets with tungsten carbide inserts in 5/8" or 1/2" square tool holders, LH & RH straight, LH & RH angled, and a 60 degree threading or two way turning tool. Prices are competitive with the HSS tool set you mentioned.

[Bigbjorn]

Depending on how much space you have available, and whether you have three phase power, you are better off haunting the auctions and buying a used industrial quality machine. The generic Chinese/Taiwanese lathes sold by Hare and Forbes and all the others are good for hobbyists and small workshops like motor mechanics, electrical fitters, and fridgies. Not really meant for all day work in a serious machine shop.

You can generally get a serious lathe of some size at auction for a good bit less than a new generic Ying Tong.

[POD]

What are you going to use it for?

.

Kind of unpredictable, as I'm always dabbling at something. Do all my own mechanical repairs plus always a project or three of one sort or another on the go, building the odd trailer or implement for the tractor and the like. I can see the lathe being used to machine simple small bushes quite a lot but the capacity to turn shafts in excess of a yard long would be desirable. One of the first lathe projects will probably be fabrication of components- contact wheels, drive wheel, tensioners etc- for a belt grinder for knifemaking.
I have plenty of space, will have to reshuffle my existing machinery a bit but I could force myself to make room for a largish lathe if the right machine presents itself.
Wonder if anyone knows where there are any machinery auction houses in Vic? Do Fowles & Jupps do this kind of stuff?

[Bigbjorn]

Might be a damn sight easier to buy a linisher than make one. You should be able to find a Linishall in good condition around the auctions. Get one that takes 482 belts (48" x 2"). Contact wheels come in an enormous variety. Smooth, grooved, hard, soft, narrow, wide, curved face for swirl polishing valves, and so on. Abrasive belts come from superfine to coarse. Scotchbrite belts come in three grades. Get as many linishers as you can fit in the shed. You can not have too many linishers.

[mick88]

I thought these were the best option for my needs. Not professional quality but good enough for DIY use, and quite modestly priced for the size:

New 36"X12" Geared Head Metal Lathe With Coolant Pump+Worklight+Stand Cabinet | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-36-X12-Geared-Head-Metal-Lathe-Coolant-Pump-Worklight-Stand-Cabinet-/270915137410?pt=AU_Hardware&hash=item3f13ccef82)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/492.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/02/493.jpg

I was after something single phase only, which this one was. Assembling it was a bit 'interesting' as it weighed over 500Kg. Needed an engine hoist to lift up the top section to put it on top of the blue stand.

Seller is reliable - I have bought many things from him (OzMeStore), and he has smaller/bigger ones of similar design. This one is at $1550-odd ATM, but would expect it to go a bit higher (+ $200-odd) before the end of the auction..

HTH
David

I have a similar lathe to this and it has served me well and it will handle almost everything I need to spin.
I doubt if I will ever wear it out with hobby use.
A good used brand name industrial lathe would have been better but if you cop a worn one it's a pain in the butt. There are a lot of parts to wear on a lathe, headstock, bed, carriage, cross or top slide, tailstock etc.

Cheers, Mick.

[POD]

To follow up with this thread- I've just come back from Sydney with a behemoth of a machine on my trailer.
After much umming and ahhing and phoning a friend, I put in a bid on a machine on eBay that had been listed previously without a bid. The bloke who had it had bought it as a job lot with an irrigation pump, he had no use for nor knowledge of lathes, so a few phone calls with him standing at the machine satisfied me that it was a good buy for the opening bid.
The machine has approx 1500mm between centres, 240mm swing over the bed and 400mm with the gap insert removed (doesn't look like it's ever been removed). Spindle bore is 70mm (I could see traffic approaching from behind through the spindle bore in the RV mirror all the way down the Hume!). 3&4 jaw chucks, a fixed steady that weighs about 40kg, metric and imperial thread cutting via a quick-change gearbox, taper turning thingy on the cross-slide, power cross-feed. About the only box it does not tick is the top speed- looks like 750rpm is the highest available.
First challenge is to get the thing off my trailer. I would be surprised if it weighs less than 2 tonnes. Fortunately my neighbour has a yard crane that should manage it.
Next challenge will be to power it, being 3-phase. A mate has a VFD that he has offered me for nix; although he's not sure whether this will be compatible with a machine with built-in reverse and braking. He has the necessary knowledge to figure this out- I sure don't. The other option is to build a rotary phase convertor, which sounds like a fun little project in itself.

[superquag]

So.... you were planning on using your new 3 phase lathe to build a rotary phase converter ?

I see a flaw in the plans.....:p

Try here:-

3 phase vsd | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/items/_W0QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=3%20phase%20vsd&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313)

[Killer]

Sounds like good machine for your needs POD, you should be able to do most things with that. Taper turning attachment is a great feature, and I wouldn't worry to much about the lack of speed, 750 rpm is fast enough for most things.

Cheers, Mick.

[POD]

So.... you were planning on using your new 3 phase lathe to build a rotary phase converter ?

I see a flaw in the plans.....:p

Try here:-

3 phase vsd | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/items/_W0QQ_sopZ12?_nkw=3%20phase%20vsd&_fromfsb=0&_trksid=m270.l1313)

Seems that the problem with powering a lathe with a VFD (or VSD) is you can't have any switching downstream of the VFD, so the inbuilt reverse switching and the motor cutout on the foot brake can only be used if completely rewired back to the VFD as relays. Also a second VFD would be required to run the coolant pump, which has it's own 1/8hp 3-phase motor. Looks like it might be simpler to build the rotary phase convertor. You don't need a lathe to build one of these, it uses a 3-phase idling motor and capacitors. I'm sure it could always be improved with the lathe once it's running though!