engine stalling 93 RRC v8

[milld]

Okay I have experienced my first real issue since putting in the motor lol.
Today on my way to church about a mile down the road the engine lost all power for about 3 seconds then it jumped back in to life again running perfectly. About 15 seconds later the same the thing. I decided to turn around back home. It then ran good for about a mile. So I turned around and said stuff it. After turning around it started to stall on and off, not dying completely but just running. This did this all the way home. Just nowafter coming home I thought I'd let it idle. After about 5mins of idle she just started to splutter then die. I've tried to start it again but it just splutters.

1. I don't have a fuel gauge but I filled it up 250km ago and it's got a 140L tank so I don't think it's fuel.

2. Ever since I put the motor in I've noticed it really losing power after 3500rpm. I thought it might be the cam but now I'm thinking fuel pump.

When it was idling the fuel pump was constantly on. I'm not sure if that's normal. I could notice a very slight change in pitch now and then but barely noticeable. It has a new ( 3 month old Bosch coil pack in it so I don't think it's the coil pack.

3. When turning the ignition back on I can't hear the fuel pump start for a few seconds then switch off. Maybe it's still primed and doesn't need to?


That's about it for now, Any thoughts? I'm leaning towards fuel pump/electrical problem.:(

[milld]

It barely runs now, very low rpm and will only stay on for about 10 seconds or less then dies. During this time I got my wife to listen near the fuel tank and we can't hear the fuel pump. I pulled out a spark plug and it's dry. I wish I had my fuel pressure gauge installed lol. Rocking the car I can hear plenty of fuel sloshing around. I guess I should be looking at the fuel pump relays first...... Located under the drivers seat somewhere?

[bee utey]

Just get a new Commodore pump, and put it in. Bosch part number BFP772. Also a new fuel filter. You can use a tyre gauge on the fuel rail if there's a schrader valve present. Fuel pumps on those don't pre-prime, they run when you turn the key to crank. You should hear the pump for 1 second after you stop cranking if it's working.

[milld]

bee utey,

It doesn't want to start at all now. I thought I'd use the kiss rule. I'm getting no spark from the coil now. I thought I'd try another coil but still no good. And I just tried to hear the fuel pump and can't whilst cranking and after. So I have a major eletctrical problem.

[bee utey]

Time to fish out the multi meter, see if there's power to the coil, it could be an immobiliser issue too. No ignition = no signal to the ECU, no fuel pump. Check all the connections on the coil are tight.

[milld]

yeah there is 11v on neg side on coil with ign on. reads 0v with ign off. Connections are tight. Any other tips? I have rave but it's for the 95 classic which is quite different. Battery has 11.94v and drains to 10.98v whilst cranking. Radio, ABS pump,seats etc all work okay. mmmmmm

[PLR]

G`day ,

your fuel pump should prime don`t know what pre-prime is .

You should be able to turn the key on to get idiots ( not to crank ) and have time to walk to near the tank/filler and hear the pump running .

It should run for 3 or 4 seconds before shutting off .

Peter

[milld]

No life in fuel pump and no spark :( I don't think the immobilzer is even connected, I've never had the fob think work plus never had central locking working either. I've checked just about every fuse in the car. I haven't checked fusible links yet though. :(

[PhilipA]

Did you have the lower dash off on the Rh side for any reason? Maybe a connector near the ignition switch. Do the dash lights come on?

Re the central lock. If it is like my 92 then the connector controller is up above the steering column and points down so can fall out . It is held by a coupleof clips , but mine fell out recently when I fitted the temp gauge.
Regards Philip A

[milld]

I did about a week ago when installing gauges. I have the cover off now and have checked all plugs etc. All dash lights come on, headlights work etc. The motor turns as normal but no spark from coil and no fuel pump. If it was immobilzer then I thought I wouldn't be able to turn motor. I measured one of the wires on the coil and got 11v with ign on & 0v off. Which ones should I expect to see voltage? I could only get the wire that comes from the same loom as the maf sensor to read voltage. I'm not sure what I should be getting from the one that runs on top of the alternator with the twin plug connector. I have the Bosch conversion system.

[PLR]

For the pump have you checked if the inertia switch needs resetting .

Could be under the pass seat .

[milld]

Just had a look, the button was pushed down. I moved it up and down and still nothing.

Cheers

[PLR]

Other than the ecu i don`t know of anything that links the pump and coil .

With the ignition off there should be power at pin 15 ecu , fuel pump relay terminal 30 and main relay terminals 86 and 30 .

The fuel pump relay is the one in the blue holder .

If they checkout the purge valve on the canster has a white/purple , with the ignition on for a short time or cranking it should have power and coarse when it`s running .

If that checks there is a white/blue that goes to the inertia switch that should have power with ignition on , same deal as last above .

There is a fuel pump fuse which is wired before or on the relay side of the inertia switch .

The fuel pump is powered through the inertia switch or gets its power from the inertia switch on should be white/blue .

The power feed is not straight forward because of the time out on the pump and the crank and run setup .

If the power ceases at a point between 2 it should be easier to find the fault and if it all checks or none checks let us know .

If you have a helper ,to test you can remove a wire from the starter solenoid and turn the key to crank and hold as far as what your doing speed has no influence so the fact it`s not rotating won`t matter .

[milld]

Thanks for the tips PLR, I'll follow your steps when I next have a chance. I also swapped out the 14 cux ecu with a spare I have but still no go. Some of the wiring has been altered as I have a Unichip installed. Maybe the unichip has failed? Not sure if this would cut the fuel pump out though.

[mike 90 RR]

........I'm not sure what I should be getting from the one that runs on top of the alternator with the twin plug connector. I have the Bosch conversion system.


Can you clarify on what you mean by .... "I have the Bosch conversion system"

If you pull the electrical plug on the MAF ... then this will make the ECU go into default mode .... but the car will start OK (Lets you know if the MAF could be at fault)

If you hit the bottom of the fuel tank with a rubber mallet ... this may jump a worn out fuel pump back into life

If you are using the original LUCUS ignition module .... then this will have a good change of being cuput .... but they generally fire back up when the motor is cold (but can fail altogether) ..... If you have the Bosch ignition module conversion .... then "maybe" this could be faulty

The other thing check is the voltage of the TPS .......


Electricity .... gotta love em ;)


Hope it helps
Mike

[milld]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the tips,

I have the Bosch ignition module Bim 024 :) I'll give the tank a good wack tomorrow arvo after work and see if I can get some life in to it. It would seem though that the 2 problems are linked together somehow. I was letting it idle for 5 mins when I got home and listening to the fuel pump. Stepped inside the house and I could hear it start to splutter for a bit then die, raced outside but too late. I could get it to just run after that but I noticed there wasn't that familiar sound of the fuel pump for a few seconds with ignition. After a few more starts......nothing. After mucking around swapping fuel pump relays I thought to test spark......nothing. I Do have another TPS so I could try that. I really need to buy another bim 024 anyways for testing purposes. I might try another MAF as I have a spare.

thanks

Steve

[mike 90 RR]

I have the Bosch ignition module Bim 024 :) I'll give the tank a good wack tomorrow arvo after work and see if I can get some life in to it. It would seem though that the 2 problems are linked together somehow.


I guess you can only eliminate 1 thing at a time to get you closer to the solution .....


To help in figuring out fuel pump issues .... Buy some electrical contact cleaner fluid (circuit board cleaner) .... Repco have a CRC can for $20 .... Great stuff ...

Spray some up the intake manifold via 1 of the vent hose connections .... If you have spark and the motor gets a sniff of that stuff, then it will fire up for a burst .....

[milld]

Hi All,

Just an update...... I bit the bullet today and went out looking for another Bosch Bim 024 module. Super cheap no longer sells but I managed to get one at autobarn for a small fortune :(.......but I did get the last one :)))). I figured that it would be handy to have a spare even if it wasn't the problem.

I can report that I now have spark :)) I thought for giggles I would plug the old one back in and when I turned on the ignition and holding the earth wire at the same time holding it against the module I felt myself getting electricuted with pulses of electricity even though I wasn't trying to turn the motor over. I couldn't get spark to show from the coil though. Plug in new one and nice big blue spark from coil :) Going back, the original Bim 024 was installed in 2000. It is located remotely with a small heat sink attached to it that had thermal paste over the base.

Still no life from pump even though I bashed the **** out of the metal tank :(,
one step closer. I will try and find some aerostart or contact cleaner and see if I can get it to burst in to life.


Cheers

[milld]

Just a quick update;

I'm getting 12v to the plug nearest the fuel pump for a couple of seconds with the ignition on. Time to pull out the fuel pump and see if there are any bad connections. How can one explain 2 bad things happening at once? It was very strange at the time as I live out on a property so there is not much traffic but just as a Cruiser was passing by in the opposite direction that is when it all started to cut out. Right at that moment of crossing. Maybe he had some sort of EMP device on board to cars he dislikes? LOL

[milld]

Any tips for removing big plastic ring at the top of the fuel tank without damaging it? I've tried to use a large flat blade but don't want to damage the ring.

Cheers

[400HPONGAS]

Filter Strap wrench , always works for me !

[bee utey]

Any tips for removing big plastic ring at the top of the fuel tank without damaging it? I've tried to use a large flat blade but don't want to damage the ring.

Cheers

You could always make a tool for it. Bend a piece of 40 x 5 flat bar into a shallow "U", file the notches to engage the ring, weld on a socket, an old bolt or file a square hole in it, and apply torque as appropriate.

[milld]

I got it out in the end; Used a 4mm flat steel bar and carefully tapped away. The big flat blade was too sharp but the flat bar worked a treat.

Upon inspection I noticed why the fuel gauge doesn't work - the braided wire had broken. I think I might end up getting a complete new unit as the bottom of the bowl I found black plastic lodged in the intake and there seems to be a brown plastic part that is loose that must be part of the fuel return system. Perhaps this clogged up not allowing fuel to flow through the pump and thus overheating the pump. Applying 12v to the pump directly does nothing.

Because I have the 140L metal tank the fuel pump unit etc didn't line up with the access hole by a long shot so I had to use tin snips and cut an inch or so of the flooring back to be able get the unit out. Quite frustrating but anyways, better than trying to remove the tank lol


Any suggestions in where to buy the complete unit?


Cheers

[bee utey]

Fuel pump and sender unit for Land Rover Discovery V8 3.9lt and Range Rover | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fuel-pump-and-sender-unit-Land-Rover-Discovery-V8-3-9lt-and-Range-Rover-/120840569847?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c22a8c3f7)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Discovery-Series-1-EFI-3-5-3-9-V8-Genuine-Fuel-Pump-/220912359975?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item336f671a27

[milld]

The only slight issue I have is that the one I have has a 12" lead from the top going in to a female round plug. Also the top of mine is metal and I have a splade plug on top for another earth. Because I have a metal tank do I have to find a pump with metal top? Mine looks more like a Disco 1 3.5 unit as the one below.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LAND-ROVER-DISCOVERY-1-ONE-3-5-V8-TANK-FUEL-PUMP-RANGE-ROVER-CLASSIC-EFI-OEM-/230728825182?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35b882795e

A little pricey for a britpart.

[bee utey]

Look at ebay again, here's another...


LANDROVER DISCOVERY, RANGE ROVER 3.5 Litre V8i 4wd parts FUEL PUMP | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LANDROVER-DISCOVERY-RANGE-ROVER-3-5-Litre-V8i-4wd-parts-FUEL-PUMP-/180796112719?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a1849bf4f)

You could always find one at a wreckers and replace the pump on it.

Also if you get the cable for the newer pump assembly from a wreckers you can make an adaptor cable. Pump should fit the same. The extra earth is for the sender unit, the newer pump has a 4 wire plug with two earth connections. These are joined in the pump cable before other end of it where it has a 3 pin plug.

[milld]

Also I keep reading that there are different pumps for the 3.5 & 3.9v8 and to check the vin numbers. What's the difference? different fuel pressure deliveries? volume etc? Is mine standard for the 93 classic? Or has someone put an earlier fuel pump in it at some stage with different wiring plug?

[bee utey]

Fuel pressure is set by the fuel pressure regulator, on the engine. As long as your pump keeps up with demand, it will be fine. As I said, find a pump harness and make the plastic one fit.

[milld]

Just found this at island 4x4;

FUEL PUMP 3.9/4.2 EFI PRC9409 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order. (http://www.island-4x4.co.uk/fuel-pump-3942-9293-prc9409-p-517.html)

[milld]

She's Alive :)

Well after a new Bosch Bim 024 module and new fuel pump from island 4x4 she runs beautifully :)))))

I also replaced my battery today as it has been struggling for quite a long time. And WOW what a difference this has made to the running of everything including the motor. Perhaps the failing battery stuffed the Bim 024 module and then somehow stuffed the fuel pump? Still very strange how this happened together. The headlights are nice and bright now and I've never seen my interior look so bright.

OEM fuel pump from island 4x4 (Britpart) ended costing about $135 AU delivered.
And now my fuel gauge works for the first time yay :)))

[bee utey]

Sometimes troubles happen in threes, it's just Fate having a poke at you. BIM's drop dead occasionally, had one go on a customers van last month. She rang me in distress, I said it was probably the module, symptoms being what they were. Road service had one on board and got her going within the hour.

Good to hear ya V8 is back on the road.:)

PS if you find a spare BIM024 put it in the tool box.