TD5 Delayed Acceleration at low engine speeds

[crt560]

Hi,

I have an annoying problem with my TD5 Auto which I thought I would post to see if anyone else has had the same problem and fixed it. Overall, vehicle performs really well, pulls like a train at 100kph, but...

Symptoms:
1) After driving the car and parking for say 15mins on the driveway, I start and attempt to move the car into my garage. There is virtually no response from the engine if I give it 100 % pedal - engine speed reaches about 1100rpm. My driveway has a low to medium uphill slope.

2) Pulling away at a roundabout or junction, there is about a 2 second delay before anything happens, then all hell breaks lose when rpm gets above 2000. This delay is reduced if I turn off the A/C system.

3) The lag is more than classical turbo lag, it appears to be some form of fuel reduction.

Checks.
1) I serviced the engine. Air filter, fuel filter, oil filter. Checked intake hoses, PCV and cleaned intercooler. Replaced intercooler as it had a slight leak on the intake.

2) I cleaned the MAP sensor and the MAF sensor. Checked wastegate operation and boost pressure.

3) I pinned out all the sensors to the ECU, did the oil check on the red ECU plug and found that everything seemed to be working. Fuel temp, air temp, air pressure, coolant temp., pedal potentiometers etc.

4) Started vehicle and looked at MAF voltage. Idle was 1.94V and no load 2250rpm was 2.54V. Also checked the resistance across pins 2 and 3 of the MAF and got 16.75 kOhms.

5) Disconnected the EGR system by blanking the vacuum pipe and ensuring the valve was closed.

I would have thought that there should be more than enough torque to overcome the AC compressor so there must be some other badness at work. The only thing I can think of is that the MAF readings are too low but I have already tested with it completely disconnected and there was no difference. Maybe a replacement MAF will sort it out ? Well I bought a cheap replacement one off eBay and that made no difference either...

Unfortunately I don't have access to a Nanocom and I don't really want to buy another MAF (I'll get the Siemens part next time) if I'm not sure if it will fix my problem. Does this sound like a familiar problem to anyone ? Anyone know where I can buy a Nanocom or borrow one ? Maybe there is a stored fault code which is resulting in some defaults being used. Was thinking about putting a 2.5V on pin 2 of the MAF sensor just to make sure that the sensed airflow was high enough. Ideas ?

Thanks.

[Terrain Vehicles]

Hi

Have you check the turbo waste gate is free.
take the 10 mm bolt out of the back of the heat shield
take the "E" shape clip off the waste gate actuator rod

the waste gate lever should move freely and when push back or forward and let go - it should fall back to the straight down position

spray with lubricating oil and work it back and forward to free it off

Put it back together and try it

If you buy a new MAF ONLY buy a original equipment one as the cheap ones are rubbish

Mark from Terrain Vehicles

[Titch101]

I've got a nanocom evo you're welcome to use if you are prepared to travel down to geelong.

It hasn't gone into "limp home" mode has it?? Car will take off in 3rd gear in this instance and feel extremely sluggish until it gets moving (auto obviously).
Indicated by flashing S and M lights on dash.

[Gaudough]

I think it might just bethe turbo lag.

I too have an uphill driveway and unless the turbo is on song it is pretty unresponsive. I can floor it for 1-2 secs with the nose of the Disco just outside the garage and not come close to punching it through the back wall.

Roundabouts or intersections require a launching technique. I keep my foot on the brake and just before you think there is a break in the traffic start to wind up the turbo by just lifting the revs slightly to say 1200 - 1500 then when the break comes plant it! But within 10 feet you need to lift off or you will rear end someone.

Makes driving fun....

By the way mine is bog standard so a chipped TD5 maybe a little different.

Regards Gordo

[Slunnie]

Mine started doing that before the fuel pump gave up.

[mturri]

Started vehicle and looked at MAF voltage. Idle was 1.94V and no load 2250rpm was 2.54V. Also checked the resistance across pins 2 and 3 of the MAF and got 16.75 kOhms.

Not saying it is the MAF but when it comes to it, the only valid method to determine whether a MAF sensor is stuffed or not is to check live readings (at idle and under load). However, in absence of diagnostics equipment I found that resistivity values can be used to give a good indication of MAF condition, although there has been some very valid criticism around this methodology, at any rate here it goes for your reference:

Resistivity values taken from MAF sensors
New OEM MAF:
Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = ~34 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = ~34 Mohm

Used dodgy MAFs (due being replaced):
Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = 12.28 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = 12.33 Mohm

Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = 19.38 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = 19.34 Mohm

Known dead MAF:
Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = 6.23 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = 6.25 Mohm

From the above it could be concluded that all MAFs, either good or bad, have the same conductivity between pins 1-2 & conductivity between pins 1-3 and 2-3 appears to decrease as the MAF deteriorates.

HTH

Rgds
Matt

[DeeThree]

Our td5 ranga.... Auto..... Does pretty much the same thing .... U might just find it is one of those really SPECIAL and unique Landrover Quirks..... Ahhhhh they are such fun vehicles to own loads of shaking head and scratching head every other day!!!!! Wouldn't be without it..... Certainly makes u develop patience and sense of humor ..... Well that's what we reckon in our house.
Our daily motto when **** goes awry is " who the F..k knows it's a Landrover" :-))

We say yours is as normal as ours is!!! Like Gaudough pointed out makes for exciting driving experience!!!

[OffTrack]

Just to add to Matt's fantastic information, there are a few people reporting around 20MΩ resistances from straight out of the box Siemens MAFs, so don't assume you have a dead one simply because it reads around that figure.

The other point is careful cleaning with a MAF cleaner spray makes a suprising difference to the resistance figures, as these readings I've just taken illustrate.

MAF before cleaning:
1-2 16.75 kΩ
1-3 2.405MΩ
2-3 14.35MΩ

MAF after cleaning
1-2 16.73kΩ
1-3 15.41MΩ
2-3 15.50MΩ

After trashing one MAF, I'm a bit cautious in how I clean them now.

It is essential that the ignition is left off for sufficiently long to allow the heated elements to cool to ambient temperature - one element is heated to around 300°C when the ignition is on. I also spray with the connector to the top to avoid depositing grime into the electronics.

cheers
Paul

[Pedro_The_Swift]

gees,, mine must be stuffed then,,:o

with mutli set on 20K range

pins 1-2, a reading of 26
pins 1-3, 1.7(still on 20K)
pins 2-3, no reading, ie, meter stayed at 1

but then I could get no reading from pins 1-3,,
all these were done with the lead unclipped.

cant be right,, car wouldnt run at all,,:confused:

[Hubcap]

Hi,

I have an annoying problem with my TD5 Auto which I thought I would post to see if anyone else has had the same problem and fixed it. Overall, vehicle performs really well, pulls like a train at 100kph, but...

Symptoms:
1) After driving the car and parking for say 15mins on the driveway, I start and attempt to move the car into my garage. There is virtually no response from the engine if I give it 100 % pedal - engine speed reaches about 1100rpm. My driveway has a low to medium uphill slope.

2) Pulling away at a roundabout or junction, there is about a 2 second delay before anything happens, then all hell breaks lose when rpm gets above 2000. This delay is reduced if I turn off the A/C system.

3) The lag is more than classical turbo lag, it appears to be some form of fuel reduction.

Checks.
1) I serviced the engine. Air filter, fuel filter, oil filter. Checked intake hoses, PCV and cleaned intercooler. Replaced intercooler as it had a slight leak on the intake.

2) I cleaned the MAP sensor and the MAF sensor. Checked wastegate operation and boost pressure.

3) I pinned out all the sensors to the ECU, did the oil check on the red ECU plug and found that everything seemed to be working. Fuel temp, air temp, air pressure, coolant temp., pedal potentiometers etc.

4) Started vehicle and looked at MAF voltage. Idle was 1.94V and no load 2250rpm was 2.54V. Also checked the resistance across pins 2 and 3 of the MAF and got 16.75 kOhms.

5) Disconnected the EGR system by blanking the vacuum pipe and ensuring the valve was closed.

I would have thought that there should be more than enough torque to overcome the AC compressor so there must be some other badness at work. The only thing I can think of is that the MAF readings are too low but I have already tested with it completely disconnected and there was no difference. Maybe a replacement MAF will sort it out ? Well I bought a cheap replacement one off eBay and that made no difference either...

Unfortunately I don't have access to a Nanocom and I don't really want to buy another MAF (I'll get the Siemens part next time) if I'm not sure if it will fix my problem. Does this sound like a familiar problem to anyone ? Anyone know where I can buy a Nanocom or borrow one ? Maybe there is a stored fault code which is resulting in some defaults being used. Was thinking about putting a 2.5V on pin 2 of the MAF sensor just to make sure that the sensed airflow was high enough. Ideas ?

Thanks.
Hi, My Discovery 2 has the same problem, today while towing the boat, pedal to floor and slowly moving until away we go, lift off pedal to idle no response on accelator, Nrma road service checked relay for fuel pump Current draw 11amps, said way too high, susspects fuel pump not working . Has now been towed to service department.

[roverv8]

2) Pulling away at a roundabout or junction, there is about a 2 second delay before anything happens, then all hell breaks lose when rpm gets above 2000. This delay is reduced if I turn off the A/C system.I found this problem also, connecting the hawkeye i found i get a fault
"3016 inlet air temperature high" when this happens
Ive read this can be caused from to much boost,
Ive backed the boost back down, but when the cruise control cause the engine to rev it jugs off, high revs it logs again.
I think my MAP inlet sensor is shot.
Ive cleaned a few times, but everytime i have delayed acceleration i find this fault logged.
Im looking at buying a new MAP sensor....

Bosch 0281002205

[OffTrack]

gees,, mine must be stuffed then,,:o

with mutli set on 20K range

pins 1-2, a reading of 26
pins 1-3, 1.7(still on 20K)
pins 2-3, no reading, ie, meter stayed at 1

but then I could get no reading from pins 1-3,,
all these were done with the lead unclipped.

cant be right,, car wouldnt run at all,,:confused:

Yep, yours is completely ****ed. The fact that it's attached to a boat anchor v8 is the main problem...

[gazk]

Most likely a failed MAF sensor. I had the same issue with my TD5 Auto - replaced the sensor with a new one and the problem went away.
Disconnect the sensor and see if the performance is any different.

[mousie]

Hi Folks,

My resistance at the second and third reading is 24M and first is same as all here. My nanocom however is reporting all zero's at gr/h no matter what throttle and i now have the air flow circuit intermit fault coming up. If i clear fault it is back straight away so not so intermit eh!

Yes I,ve cleaned maf with air pressure only as looks good with no debris, wires look fine but will check again tomorrow is to check wires, but are you folk telling me to buy a new one if the wires are sound. I have checked, aap and map so all good there.

I.e. Is Nothing else to check and is the nanocom telling me its stuffed. Would i be correct here with giving up and buying new, cheers,

[mousie]

Well on advice here, just went to clean more again the two strip elements and found one element partially missing after placing said reading glasses on. I suspect Terry the Turbo had dealt with the piece so all clean as one would say.

So you can have resistance values saying perhaps in normal range but the unit is still dead as by nanocom standards. Just ordered a new VDO MAF delivered for $133.

[Marco Polo]

Resistivity values taken from MAF sensors
New OEM MAF:
Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = ~34 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = ~34 Mohm

Used dodgy MAFs (due being replaced):
Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = 12.28 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = 12.33 Mohm

Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = 19.38 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = 19.34 Mohm

Known dead MAF:
Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
Pins 1-3 = 6.23 Mohm
Pins 2-3 = 6.25 Mohm

From the above it could be concluded that all MAFs, either good or bad, have the same conductivity between pins 1-2 & conductivity between pins 1-3 and 2-3 appears to decrease as the MAF deteriorates.

HTH

Rgds
Matt

I have just bought a new SIEMENS Maf and I get:
pins 1-2 16.8kohm
pins 1-3 10.45Mohm
pins 2-3 9.85Mohm

Old Maf:
pins 1-2 16.8k
pins 1-3 9.45M
pins 2-3 9.45M

I had sluggish acceleration issues. I've not taken it for a drive with the new MAF as I am working on an interior water leak/ floor rust issue.

The new MAF values seem well out of line with others I have found on the net. I don't unfortunately have the ability to get live data with the engine running.

[Marco Polo]

Well, I went for a drive with the new MAF and new air filter fitted. No change to driving ?haracteristics. There is still a massive gulf of emptiness when trying to accelerate from standstill and low rpm.

I found a tip posted by a TD5 tuning company that said 2 volts at the MAF centre pin at idle equates to 60kg/hr which is "perfection". I get just under 2.1v so I am assuming my new MAF is good.

[Nickllfixit]

Before spending on a maf check the cables going to it.
ie- over the aircon, cut back insulation on loom and clean with wd40...
They get cooked insulation on wires, then short= fault then limp....
Check output on the ecu red plug, at idle, while moving the loom... Before stripping looms open 😉
Mapping guys over here use a 3.3v max, voltage regulator, in the return wire from maf to ecu... This sometimes (if not an ultra low dropout one) can put in limp mode on idle. This produces grey smoke and misfires (nanocom reading of 4.2!!) then when revved up the signal comes on to right levels (50-60 idle).
Just saying if people have this issue and there's is mapped 😃

[PTC]

I had something similar to this when i bought my car. I replaced the MAF with no change and eventually after a few different mechanics. They found that my turbo hoses had delaminated. That was creating my obstruction and once they were replaced it was like a whole new car.

[sierrafery]

Read this old thread from the beginning, i only want to tell you all to not rely on resistance readings when it comes to MAF(except across pins 1-2 where it's the electronic circuit's resistance and should be the same) the other readings can be different from one case to another even with new genuine sensors cos the MAF is extremely temperature dependent so relevant is only if the readings were taken at the same ambient temperature... that's all

[eckolsim]

Thought I would dig this thread back up as this issue has been on an off for me for years.

Went for a drive tonight with the Hawkeye connected while watching the IAT sensor values.
Every time the IAT recorded 119 deg C the car lost all power below 1900 RPM. It was intermittent. Not sure if it is the sensor or some broken wires.

The manual says the MAP and IAT (same sensor) share the 5v input. A 5v output from the IAT causes the 119 deg C. It might be the sensor or there could be a wiring issue in the loom whereby the IAT output is getting 5v from somewhere else.

Will advise after some more troubleshooting.

Simon.

P.S. This has been ****ting me for years. I was just about to register the car and couldn’t make it to the inspection garage. Oh the shame.

[sierrafery]

I'm 99% sure that it's the sensor at fault, i've seen this symptom few times with exactly the same behaviour and new sensor cured it

[Milton477]

Had exactly the same symptoms with my D2 some years ago. I logged the IAT with Nanocom & whenever it spiked, power vanished. New sensor cured the problem. Wasn't an expensive fix either.

[johnp38]

Hi,

I have an annoying problem with my TD5 Auto which I thought I would post to see if anyone else has had the same problem and fixed it. Overall, vehicle performs really well, pulls like a train at 100kph, but...

Symptoms:

2) Pulling away at a roundabout or junction, there is about a 2 second delay before anything happens, then all hell breaks lose when rpm gets above 2000. This delay is reduced if I turn off the A/C system.

3) The lag is more than classical turbo lag, it appears to be some form of fuel reduction.


Thanks.

Since I got mine it has been dangerous with the delayed throttle from cold. Noticeable difference when aircon turned off, the previous owner did mention if no throttle response to turn off aircon but I was only half listening as I expected it to have some issues.

Today I received a replacement MAP sensor (all of $16) and put it in.

Now I have a vehicle that actually moves when I put the foot down and can now dart into traffic, only to promptly lose midrange revs.

However this is enough to tell me that yes the sluggy disco is not a live with it issue (none of the stuff I have read makes sense and I don't know why people put up with what I believe is a faulty car not a characteristic) and that my MAP sensor is a dodgy cheapy as it cured one part of my issue but introduced another.

So because I am a cheap ***** I have now ordered a Tridon TMP110 for $40 as I am trying to avoid the $150 Bosch bill.

I already did the clean everything with sensor grade spray and the throttle voltage to MAF input on the ecu.

Unplugging MAF and AAP (separately) did nothing (no improvement or loss) and unplugging MAP put it into a 10 km/h limp mode.

With previous MAP it did jack till it slowly got to 2000 then shot off like a rocket, however ran out of puff at 3000 and hills/slopes knocked it back to 90 km/h

I consider this progress.

I do have a cheapy MAF on order as well for substitute testing and a fuel pressure block gasket set, as it is dripping out of the regulator.

Have been doing a lot of reading (and emailing sellers) re diagnostic tools and seems the nanocom is the go for this vehicle.

[PhilipA]

Seeing the fault is worse with A/C on have you had the aircon checked for pressures?

I can remember once in my RRC when the aircon fans died in Kununurra the starter would not turn the engine with the aircon on as the system pressure had increased due to the condenser not working. Could maybe be a blocked receiver drier.
Also simply check the Viscous Fan bearing and the idlers for free movement.
Regards PhilipA

[johnp38]

Seeing the fault is worse with A/C on have you had the aircon checked for pressures?

Regards PhilipA

With the new MAP sensor the aircon on or off does not affect the driveability anymore. I have gone around the block a few times accelerating from a standing start (which is an outstanding difference with this MAP sensor) and all good on takeoff and no change in loss of midrange with aircon in or out.

Later today I will play around a bit more but the stark difference between the 2 MAP sensors has made me keen to get this engine running sweet, the take off I have now, combined with the mid range I had before I changed sensors is telling me this car can boogie even in stock trim once I have it sorted.

I was swapping between a 2 litre automatic Econovan loaded with tools, a 3.6 litre auto VE sedan and a 5.7 litre auto VT sedan (infringement notice magnet) throughout the week before I cleared the stable and got this as my one and only daily. So plenty of range in power levels to compare with.

Also have a replacement Delphi brand Crankshaft position sensor but it has been purchased as a spare only. The car starts instantly once glow plug light goes off and idles like a clock on 760 rpm , no cutting out or misfiring when driving.

So I now know the original laggy dead throttle issue is a faulty MAP sensor, which I have replaced with a new, no brand out of spec faulty cheap crap sensor, which is to now be replaced with another new, also cheap but known brand name (Tridon) MAP sensor.

No oil anywhere in loom from where injector wiring plug is in front of head to ecu sockets.

Also with laptop plugged in to OBD port I can read engine rpm and throttle percentage (changes in proportion to movement) and a reading saying 8% load at idle (which I am not familiar with) and nothing else but surprised I got that even, as I thought the disco Td5 shows nothing with standard OBD instruments.

Without a diagnostic tool as an aid it is a sensor swapping, wiring checking, grey matter excersize.

[johnp38]

So I now know I know nothing, and that cheapie MAP sensor put egg on my face.

It did make an 'improvement' but I think I got too excited because my throttle response was so crap to start with that anything was an improvement.

Anyway the Tridon MAP sensor was cancelled as seller had no stock (or realized everyone was selling them for $110 and their price was $40 so not doing themselves any favours)

I got a Bosch MAP sensor from Supercheap Auto but car performed the same .

I also swapped out MAF sensor no difference, left Crankshaft sensor alone because it starts fine and no cut out or missing when running (I did purchase a new one for spares regardless)

Did the throttle voltage to MAF input on ecu trick no change, also MAP voltage to MAF input as suggested in another thread somewhere and no change

And finally bit the bullet and ordered a nanocom at full price coz none of you people loves me enough except Brucie to join a group buy

So thanks to Nano and matey mate SD card I actually managed to graph the take off delay while watching 2 lanes of traffic bearing down at me as I crossed them moving at a crawl foot through the floorboard.

I am now a legend in my tiny little mind as far as getting a grip on understanding the fueling recordings the nano makes and have decided by process of elimination and new found knowledge that my sensors are all working fine and the one thing not measured by nano (fuel pressure) needs to be checked.

A cheapie 80 buck pump and a fuel pressure test kit from ebay should be here by Friday to add to my arsenal of bits.

I also found I have a TRS chipped MSB101340 ecu (I took lid off and it is socketed) and thought to maybe buy an unmolested spare for comparison, however when I turned up at the guys place it was another TRS stickered MSB unit with a big green 'performance tuned' sticker on it. It has been fitted but no change in the throttle lag, but at 120 bucks and I now have the original as a spare I can't complain.

So it is a long process of elimination and I wish I had a nanocom before I started buying sensors as it would have been much easier getting an insight into the way this engine works and saved a lot of probing with the multimeter.

For those who haven't got one and are diy types stop thinking about it, just get one, life is a lot easier when you can log the sensors and the three tracks on the throttle pot doing their thing instead of farting around doing continuity and voltage checks manually.

I saved 150 straight up by clearing the flashing odo and bought a 315mhz key on ebay for 30 bucks and synced it then went and paid another 10 to get it cut. So spare key for 40 bucks or would have been 220 at locksmiths and much more at dealers. Not to mention being able to grab another ecu at 6pm and have it in the vehicle and test driving half hour later all synced up with bcu at home thanks to mr nanocom

I will win in the end even if I cheat and buy another disco and go 'aha that fixed it !! '

[Markf]

I've had the same problem since my autobox rebuild. So far I've replaced the MAF, MAP/IAT and CPS all with genuine parts without change. The issue is still intermittent though - yesterday when it was cold it played up but this morning it didn't. It's almost like the D2 doesn't like me on some days...:-)

Seeing as the problem became obvious only after the gearbox rebuild I've come to the conclusion that it's either gearbox related or the faulty gearbox masked it.

It seems almost as if the lockup clutch is somehow engaged until about 2000 rpm when it plays up. I'll start recording the gearbox stuff in the nanocom and see if that turns anything up. My hopes are not high though.

[shack]

If anyone on this thread with performance issues has a Nanocom, do a log recording from the td5 instruments screen, post it here and I'll have a look.

Cheers
James

[johnp38]

169897

I condensed this down to show what my foot is doing to what the car did if it is of interest to anyone

As you can see the throttle pot works fine, the engine sorta went to respond then stayed at 1000 for a few seconds as the car slowly moved forward across the 2 lanes, then it starts to move quickly and I back off the pedal to not speed.

The MAP MAF readings and other stuff follows along as I would expect from info on here and reading RAVE when my brain can take it in.

It is not trying to take off in a high gear as it does change up once driving and there is no changedown that I can discern before it takes off after the delay.

Start at 1.10

[johnp38]

Mine started doing that before the fuel pump gave up.

This is where I am at now, waiting for fuel pump and fuel pressure test kit to keep eliminating until I get to the problem/fix

[shack]

169897

I condensed this down to show what my foot is doing to what the car did if it is of interest to anyone

As you can see the throttle pot works fine, the engine sorta went to respond then stayed at 1000 for a few seconds as the car slowly moved forward across the 2 lanes, then it starts to move quickly and I back off the pedal to not speed.

The MAP MAF readings and other stuff follows along as I would expect from info on here and reading RAVE when my brain can take it in.

It is not trying to take off in a high gear as it does change up once driving and there is no changedown that I can discern before it takes off after the delay.

Start at 1.10If you post the whole log, it'll be much easier to diagnose.

Cheers
James

[johnp38]

169938

Not sure how to attach

Edit to say I hope it works, coz it looks like it attached, I will let you guys open it up in your preferred viewer, from 1.10 is when I went to take off with foot down.

It all looks ok to me as far as the inputs go other than the vehicle actually not shooting forward.

And no fuel pressure sensor in the design, even just to bring up the engine light and leave an error code, seems to be an oversight.

[shack]

169938

Not sure how to attach

Edit to say I hope it works, coz it looks like it attached, I will let you guys open it up in your preferred viewer, from 1.10 is when I went to take off with foot down.

It all looks ok to me as far as the inputs go other than the vehicle actually not shooting forward.

And no fuel pressure sensor in the design, even just to bring up the engine light and leave an error code, seems to be an oversight.Ta...I'll have a look

Edit: pm sent...

[johnp38]

169947169948

[johnp38]

So, today came finally and so did the new fuel pump and fuel pressure kit.

As I am building up a stock of spares for that middle of nowhere trip I probably won't ever do, I promptly swapped out the existing pump for the new one.

Lucky me the job had been done before and the carpet was sliced down either side about 1 inch under the plastic trim, so followed the youtube clip and bob's ya uncle and mable's ya aunty

Took car for a spin around the block and no improvement, however the new pump purrs while the old one makes 'noise' but still does the job.

So put the fuel pressure gauge in place of the fuel temp sender and have 4.2 Bar ignition on but not running and 4.6 Bar engine running.

Fuel pressure goes to 0 as soon as car switched off. Same happens when doing the air purge, up steady at 4.2 Bar when pump running, back to 0, then back up and steady at 4.2 again every time the pump runs.

Now that I have Mr Nanocom I also swapped out the MAP sensor for the 'dodgy' one that does make it launch off the line like a normal car but then dies. So quite handy when you can see what the ECM sees, my dodgy MAP is at 210 at idle ( the IAT side of the cct looks pretty normal though) as if the turbo was spooled up, put foot down and instant response like it is a real car but the MAP hits 230 or so and then suddenly drops to 100 and I can only bum along at 20-30 k around the block. As soon as I pull up it goes back up to 200-210 and I can get off the line without the delay and ECM shuts down again to 100 as I have reached 20 klicks and I can feather it up to 30.

I am on a steep learning curve with this motor so lots of guesses but I think the dodgy MAP is fuelling the car more at idle and as I tromp it the ECM is saying whoa boy too much boost and switching to limp home mode 100 kpa till I drop back the revs to idle and take off again.

So now that I have changed heaps of things and narrowing down by process of elimination I really want to try a bog stock unchipped MSB unit just to eliminate the TRS 'performance' tuning from the list. I say this because (guessing as above) the dodgy MAP must be causing the ECM to do something different with the fuel curve to be making a difference off the line. I did go to buy what I was assured was a stock MSB but when I got there it was another TRS job. It had TRS Performance Tune all over it and I didn't get much of a response pointing out the blindingly obvious and referring to our phone chat. The lid had been 'tortured' off (well it actually looked like it was still in pain) and siliconed back on. I bought it anyway as a spare and also figuring I could get it 'chipped' with a stock tune as it was a good price.

So who has an eprom programmer, a spare AT29C1024 chip and a factory stock tune with EGR delete for 10P EU2 disco automatic, and how much pretty please?

[johnp38]

I had the exact same issues as the OP

Solved by setting the injector clearances and also by aligning cam to crank timing.

Both the above were out, injector clearances gave back the low end power and cam timing fixed the throttle response spot on.