2.4L Puma Power ups

[SVX37]

Hi all,

I have read all the threads I can find on chips and power ups specific for the 2.4L Puma Defender and found some interesting information for sure. I am looking for some more power for towing my camper trailer as on road up steep hills, it is left wanting, and I'm back to 3rd gear.

If I go ahead with the power up, I will add a Taipan Exhaust which fits the Defender as Beaudesert Exhausts do not range one for the Defender and I am too far away to go in for a measure up.

The options based on my research are:
Plug & Play version: deciding between Steinbaeur & DP Chip.
or
Reflash the Chip: Bruce Davis reflash or Autologic or ?

Has someone on here had their ECU flashed using Autologic? Are you happy with it? What and the pro's & con's of it?

Any other information on the above based on their experience is appreciated, but I would prefer information to be about the 2.4L Puma motor. (no offence to TD5 drivers I once ownded a TD5 Disco!) :)

Look forward to your feedback.

Nigel

[toad]

Hi Nigel,

while owning a 2.4 Defender I have yet to feel the need to upgrade mine; but did take Bruce Davis's SVX for a drive the other day when he visited Canberra. Only one, well perhaps two words to discribe it - My God!

It is one low flying, high speed truck, boy am I glad my wife did not drive it, she drives faster than I do. The real difference is in the engines ability to rev out a little bit more and pull through the gears. Whereas I need to change gears at 3000 rpm, this was happy out to 4000 (I did not dare give it more) and with that a whole heap more HP as revs increased. I broke the speed limiter mark in 3rd gear and there was 3 more gears to go. So you can take that as a recommendation if you like.

You would need to chat with Bruce to find out what options are available. Best of luck whatever you do.

[Loubrey]

You have obviously done quite a bit of research already, but this system is definitely worth looking at as well.

ECU Remapping - Alive Tuning (http://www.alivetuning.com/ECU_Remapping.html)

I've got a year's waranty left and then I'll definitely be looking at one of these. Remember, we look at the ex-vat price over here...

You read your current map, e-mail it to them, they do 2 versions for you (eg towing and freeway) and e-mail it back. You plug it into the car and you're on your way...

[Josh_WA]

if you check out

Defender2 (http://www.defender2.net)

you will find heaps of info about what the guys over there are doing. I would have a chat to the guys at BAS as lots seem to be happy with their work.

Cheers

[pannawonica]

I have a Alive Atric ( same as BAS box ) Alien tech device. This allows you at will to flash the standard/mod fuel file at will. Ofcourse I have not used due to still in warrenty, however I can highly recommend it from my experience. This method of tuning is without doubt far superior to the add on boxs that really only change a few parametres. It will also allow the shut down of the EGR on 2.2 and 2.4 Puma's. :D

[PAT303]

I'm getting the Alive tune in a fortnight or so,and I want to take the center muffler out. Pat

[pannawonica]

I am also going to do the muffler more to reduce heat build up. Where are you getting the straight pipe from.

[Naks]

I have a BAS remap and it is awesome. This is what the standard Puma should be like.

As soon as the warranty is over, I am ripping out the cat and middle silencer box.

[isuzurover]

IME There will be plenty of local exhaust shops who can build you a custom performance exhaust as good as a Taipan or better for a fraction of the price.

e.g. The 3" mandrel bent exhaust on my 110 cost me $500 drive in drive out, including a custom dump pipe - which is a work of art. That was steel but stainless would have been ~$800.

How much does the Taipan cost (+ freight and fitting?).

[PAT303]

I am also going to do the muffler more to reduce heat build up. Where are you getting the straight pipe from.

I'm hoping to measure it up and get one made as the nearest muffler shop from us would be Karratha,one of the negatives living where we live. Pat

[PAT303]

IME There will be plenty of local exhaust shops who can build you a custom performance exhaust as good as a Taipan or better for a fraction of the price.

e.g. The 3" mandrel bent exhaust on my 110 cost me $500 drive in drive out, including a custom dump pipe - which is a work of art. That was steel but stainless would have been ~$800.

How much does the Taipan cost (+ freight and fitting?).

I've still got three years warrenty left so no exhaust for me,the muffler removal won't effect it and I'll going to cut the floor out above it and put a under floor toolbox in for my spares and tools. Pat

[vogue]

How many kw's and nm's are the chipped Puma's making?

[grover7488]

something like the BAS system is the best option not some pigy-back thing ;) leave those for the Jap cars.

I've heard that Pete is very helpful and accomodating. The idea that you restore the factory settings when it goes back to the dealer is :cool:

I know a guy who has had the BAS setup since new and when he drove his fathers untuned he forgot how bad the factory tune is. Like Naks said - this is how the PUMA's should have come

[pannawonica]

I'm hoping to measure it up and get one made as the nearest muffler shop from us would be Karratha,one of the negatives living where we live. Pat

I would be interested in where in Karratha and how much. I also want to loose the cat. Taipan exhausts whilst maybe good but at what price. I'm over in Pomgolia in 3 months, between BAS and ALIVE locations. It would not surprise me evan with postage that it maybe competitive to obtain from Uk. Isuzurover where in Perth did you obtain your exhaust, I would prefer 2.5 inch for the Puma.
Pat, that will be a good place to keep your tools and spares warm for working on those cold days.:D

[grover7488]

How many kw's and nm's are the chipped Puma's making?

BAS is 110kw and 430nM

[pannawonica]

How many kw's and nm's are the chipped Puma's making?


Don't know as Gary at ALIVE says "thats for Pub talk, torque is what its about. " I am inclined to agree with this, however I know of one Puma that with just a remap goes to 155km like rattle with a little more to come. It really makes them into how they should have come from the factory, no flatspots.:D

[Geezer]

I got the BAS (Bell Auto Services) remap done last month when Pete was doing a January Special, cost me $650 all up. I have to say I was very impressed with the performance gains without going stupid. You can swap between your tunes whenever you want with a re-map programming interface module.
Check out the UK Defender2 site and do a search on BAS or ALIVE tunes.

Cheers
G

[PAT303]

I don't like the idea of carbon going back through the motor either,stupid EGR. Pat

[rovercare]

IME There will be plenty of local exhaust shops who can build you a custom performance exhaust as good as a Taipan or better for a fraction of the price.

e.g. The 3" mandrel bent exhaust on my 110 cost me $500 drive in drive out, including a custom dump pipe - which is a work of art. That was steel but stainless would have been ~$800.

How much does the Taipan cost (+ freight and fitting?).

I must say, there is a difference, when you make a mandrel system its a series of bends and straights welded together, the aftermarket jobbies are a full, one piece system, with no welds, which will help with system life, as there is no weld on the coating on the pipe to rust it out

[isuzurover]

...Isuzurover where in Perth did you obtain your exhaust, I would prefer 2.5 inch for the Puma....

"Hans-On" exhausts - Albany Highway Kenwick.


I must say, there is a difference, when you make a mandrel system its a series of bends and straights welded together, the aftermarket jobbies are a full, one piece system, with no welds, which will help with system life, as there is no weld on the coating on the pipe to rust it out

Fair enough, however you can get a stainless system for less than a Taipan/BD steel system... For the posters up in the pilbara though, even a bare steel exhaust will probably last 50 years!

My exhaust is almost 4 years old now, still holding up fine despite plenty of time driving in mud and beach sand.

EDIT, btw, a certain UK tuning company has been mentioned in this thread.

Their advertising BS claims:
...using 2 1/2 inch diameter tubing, to maintain peak exhaust gas velocity, and to effectively remove gasses...

However, as I have posted previously,

Pressure Drop = Velocity^2 / Diameter

Basically, the above equation says that bigger is (a lot) better.

In short, the company have proven by their statements they are salespeople, not engineers. There is no performance benefit in "maintaining" (peak) exhaust gas velocity in a TD engine - whatever that is supposed to mean.

For a TD you want to fit the largest exhaust that you can fit (as long as you can put up with the noise/drone).



I've still got three years warrenty left so no exhaust for me,the muffler removal won't effect it and I'll going to cut the floor out above it and put a under floor toolbox in for my spares and tools. Pat

I am sure LRA would view removing a muffler or replacing an exhaust the same. Unless you plan to reinstall the muffler for each service?

[Lorryman100]

For me it is Alives ATRIC remap. And as that is the only remap files I have, I can only write about the Alive tunes. I did a lot of research on the two main tuning companies offering the Alien tech tuning box, based on research from forums and for me personally I chose Alive. The thing with Gary at Alive is that he comes across as a knowledgeable guy with the right attitude in that he is not happy with the tune he does for you until you are. He has done quite a few remaps for me with different versions offering torque, speed and a combination of both. I recently asked him for a couple other files so I could do a write up on Defender2.net showing standard OEM fuel files with the only difference being the EGR is closed 100% of the time. The difference can be felt straight away as the engine spools up quicker and there is a little more pull. I done this to show you don't always need a full remap to have the EGR closed with software as it can be done on the OEM fuel file changing none of the other parameters. The benefits of having this done are a cleaner burning engine as the dirty exhaust gases are not being recycled.
I have a few bits of diagnostic gear and always check that everything is within tolerances with each remap I have received from Alive and they all run without fault, no flat spots over pressurizing the fuel rail etc. Have a look at some of the posts about remapping before you decide as each company offers different tunes. The likes of Alive does individual tunes for your defender (as they are LR specialists) based on the original software installed and what you are after in a remap unlike a generic Puma remap file. I now know (Google) that Bruce Davis Performance in Sydney stocks the ATRIC and can supply the remaps from Alive Tuning for all late model LRs through the Alive Tricore CMD kit. And he is a bit closer to you than Grimsby.

http://www.davisperformance.com/

Defender2 - View topic - Alive Tunings OEM EGR closed fuel file. (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic10564.html)

Defender2 - View topic - Alive Tunings No EGR Upgrade (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic7064.html)

I use the Puma to tow either a caravan or my boat and the difference over standard with a remap file has to be experienced. The biggest improvement which I like, is the available Torque meaning less gear changing when towing as Scotland is not very flat.



HTH Brian.

[newhue]

I had a 2" exhaust upgraded to a 2 3/4" exhaust on a chipped 3lt motor. The exhaust went on first and though the results were there, they were minimal...... barely felt through the seat of your pants.
The puma has a sizeable exhaust as standard, I'd be the spending the upto $1100 on something else, or minimal mods to the standard. In my experience a qld exhaust shop mentioned previously are poor to deal with, and no I didn't want my money back.
Keep in mind as well, on the rare odd chance you get a government vehicle inspection, no cat = $10 000 leaving your wallet.

[newhue]

Been doing a bit of reading on remaps, and it got me thinking what would I like out of a remap. Kind of felt more power was too broad and vague, but maybe that's the plain and simple answer.
I don't want my Defer to go like a rocket. Furthermore I don't want to replace cats with a hi flow ones or remove it completely. Upgrade the exhaust, intercoolers and so on.
So I came up with a list for my needs and fired an email to a supplier.

I'd be interested in what other people would be looking in a tune, but heres mine.

1. engine longevity, I would like to see 400K+ out of it.
2. reasonable boost from 1000rpm
3. more economy and torque at 110klm. My puma seems to become quite
thirsty after 105klm, and cruising in 6th with a touring load sees me
dropping back to 5th on undulating hills when it probably shouldn't.
4. I currently run 31" standard tyres. I will be changing to 33" and I'm
concerned by upsizing the vehicle becomes unresponsive. For example I
currently can control the revs in 2nd low from 1250 to 2000rpm up steep
terrain and maintain traction without spinning wheels and carry on. I'd
prefer to keep the torque and revs at that range with the larger tyres.
This pace is safe, predictable, kind to the vehicle and crap doesn't get
thrown all around the inside.
5. As little smoke as possible. It doesn't have to go like a shower of ****,
but a bit of get up and go would be nice.

[dcale]

Been doing a bit of reading on remaps, and it got me thinking what would I like out of a remap. Kind of felt more power was too broad and vague, but maybe that's the plain and simple answer.
I don't want my Defer to go like a rocket. Furthermore I don't want to replace cats with a hi flow ones or remove it completely. Upgrade the exhaust, intercoolers and so on.
So I came up with a list for my needs and fired an email to a supplier.

I'd be interested in what other people would be looking in a tune, but heres mine.

1. engine longevity, I would like to see 400K+ out of it.
2. reasonable boost from 1000rpm
3. more economy and torque at 110klm. My puma seems to become quite
thirsty after 105klm, and cruising in 6th with a touring load sees me
dropping back to 5th on undulating hills when it probably shouldn't.
4. I currently run 31" standard tyres. I will be changing to 33" and I'm
concerned by upsizing the vehicle becomes unresponsive. For example I
currently can control the revs in 2nd low from 1250 to 2000rpm up steep
terrain and maintain traction without spinning wheels and carry on. I'd
prefer to keep the torque and revs at that range with the larger tyres.
This pace is safe, predictable, kind to the vehicle and crap doesn't get
thrown all around the inside.
5. As little smoke as possible. It doesn't have to go like a shower of ****,
but a bit of get up and go would be nice.


I like your approach, and would be very interested in their responses.

Regards
Darren

[Naks]

Been doing a bit of reading on remaps, and it got me thinking what would I like out of a remap. Kind of felt more power was too broad and vague, but maybe that's the plain and simple answer.
I don't want my Defer to go like a rocket. Furthermore I don't want to replace cats with a hi flow ones or remove it completely. Upgrade the exhaust, intercoolers and so on.
So I came up with a list for my needs and fired an email to a supplier.


I had pretty much the same requirements and BAS remap fit the bill perfectly!

[newhue]

I had pretty much the same requirements and BAS remap fit the bill perfectly!

Naks any flat spots or concerns

one of the remap suppliers has gotten a terrible time regarding flat spots, and I have bumped into someone on here in Aus with those problems from the same supplier.
They have defended themselves, but supported by another remaping company, saying a small amount of ECU can be problematic, the problem is difficult to solve but can be done with persistence. It's interesting though one has or had some issues, but the other seems plain sailing. Perhaps I know who was staring at the girls instead of listening at school.

thanks

[Naks]

Naks any flat spots or concerns

Well, the remap did accentuate a flat spot in 6th, but I just drive around that - you only notice it if you change into 6th going uphill.

Other than that, no issues. Much improved performance and a reduction in fuel consumption and lower EGTs fall much quicker.

The remaps I got from BAS have the EGR closed, and I also use 2-stroke oil with pretty much every tank.

[patclan]

I have an Alive remap, the performance change is remarkable, I am sure it would be similar to the BAS one also, everyone seems to enjoy one or the other depending on who you chose.

One thing for me though is the remap has accentuated a hesitation I get around 2.5k in second and third gear, it only happens if I am trying to maintain a steady speed i.e. car parks and the likes.

Unfortunately when I remove the remap I can still feel it slightly but LR say it is nothing and they do not see a problem.

That said I am now on my 4th remap from Alive to work through the issue, and the latest one is nice, it feels like I have more grunt at lower speeds and cruising in 5th and 6th is a joy. the hesitation is definitely not as bad so we are getting there.

I just need Land Rover to see the problem and fix it, but I only have around 13k of warranty left so I imagine they are hoping it runs out first :-(

I chose Alive as at the time they worked out around $150 cheaper, and they have been great, and I have purchased other items from them also, but as always DYOR, then you only have your self to blame if it goes t!ts up :-)

Cheers
Pat

[Drover]

I have had a BAS map in for about 12 months now. I first stared with just an intercooler up-grade (Allisport) the difference was remarkable. Power was on tap from 2500rpm's through to 4000rpm's before any sign of it slowing down.

I installed a decat pipe and then middle muffler removal pipe. Contacted Pete Bell and explained that the higher revs really didn't suit my driving style and asked for maximum power from the lowest revs.

Got a new map within a day......and wow.

With the new map the 2.4 pulls like a steam train from 1650rpm's and keeps going till 3250rpm's.

I sit on 2250rpm's on freeway all day, up hill - down hill - top gear what ever. It is unstoppable

For my money it is BAS all the way - Could Not Be Happier.

Oh and No flat spots

[SVX37]

Thanks to all the replies - this is such a great website and I appreciate learning from others on here.:)

I was leaning toward a Plug & Play version but there wasn't much in it when I first started this thread. In fact, for my needs, I think I would be happy with it.

However, based on all the feedback, I am going down the "Flash the Chip" route!

It seems that it will either be the Alive Tuning which I can source through Bruce Davis in Sydney, or the BAS Chip from the UK. A few LR specialists seem to use Autologic to flash as well, and this seems a good idea but no one seems to have gone down that path...:eek:

I'm not certain what is involved with the BAS version, but after reading the link from Lorryman100 (thanks Brian) on the ATRIC it seems simple enough.,

To be clear, I have no mechanical knowledge, and little time, so I would normally prefer to have this done at a LR specialist. But I think I could handle the ATRIC myself or at least get some help from a place like Ritters in Melbourne, particularly if I have an issue. I like the idea of being able to return to a normal map as well as 2 other maps, and being able to shut the EGR via the computer and would be almost impossible to detect.

I wouldn't change the Intercooler (just yet $$$), but this seems to go hand in hand with power ups. The exhaust seems to be 50/50 call. The Taipan one looks the goods but maybe do a modification like Allan and Grant (Drover) and remove the Centre pipe? I may have to send them a PM but they or some one else may spell out what I would have to do...:)

Thanks Jason (Newhue) for your post. I am going to list the following for my needs which is probably similar to most owners

1. engine, gear box & driveline longevity - probably add a EGT guage.
2. more torque to pull my camper trailer - mainly on hills.
3. reasonable boost from 1000rpm.
4. more economy and torque all round.
5. Not a race car, just a few more herbs for on road! (I have had no herb issues off road in low range to date, including Robe sand hills but a little more in reserve would be nice.)

Keep you comments coming and thanks again.:)

Nigel

[Drover]

Hey Nigel,

BAS remaps require more computer based knowledge than mechanical, but still very simple and the instructions provide are excellent.

Removing centre muffler is straight bolt up, no welding or cutting. A TerraFirma stainless pipe is worth about $180.00 and take 10mins to fit.

Cheers

[newhue]

Well the positive feedback on Alive's same day prompt service has fallen over dead. 3 days has passed and no reply to my email. There are many reasons I suppose but an out of the office reply could also help.

I'll resend my tune request to BAS and see how it goes.

[newhue]

Holy smokes BAS have good customer service.
Sent and replied all within 1 hour.

It seems however my wish list tune is basically that.

Boost from 1000rpm is impossible as the motor doesn't create enough gas to spin the turbo.
Better economy at 110klm is not going to happen because of the standard factory gearing.
Recommend to stick to original tyre size as lag low down can't be improved.
And if I want to try for 400K+klm out of my donk, change the oil at half the scheduled times. Though I'm not so sure about that as Synthetic oil has come a long way from mineral.

So it seems for me, I'll keep the cash in the pocket. I am left with the impression a remaps is a good thing if you like giving it a bit. However for me I think I am driving slower day by day.

good luck with it all

[cal415]

Go the alive tune, had some experience with a 130 on 33s, atric, and alive intercooler.... Can't believe the difference to a stock one, boost comes on around 1450, and full boost about 1600, power below 2000rpm is very different , no real change in economy but that might be because you feel like driving it harder :)

Btw had good contact with them via email except when Gary was away at a show....

[newhue]

Nigel, apologies for running away with your question.

some thoughts on chips, or more observations really

Steinbauer have moved there marketing to a flat 20% increase in power and torque these days, no more UPTO % anymore. They also say they have been tested on Australian fuel, as a few years ago this was a regular argument against them wrong or right. Not sure on price but they were dearer than DP when I bought a chip. I have a mate who is happy with his Steinbauer.

Chip-It offer EGT package deals as a better system. Possibly they could be be running the tune pretty hard as others don't market this as much. But I acknowledge many seem to fit this as a monitoring precaution. Again just an observation.

I know in my old jap car with a chip had an intermittent flat spot pre chip, but after fitting the chip Holden used it as a focus point to wriggle out of all the failings.

[Drover]

"Plug and Play" type unit (DP chip, Steinbauer, Chip It etc) will never match a re-tune or flash of the ECU (BAS, Alive etc).

Plug and play system can only modify the amount of fuel supplied and and the duration of the injector opening to the engine as they only connect up to the injectors and modify the messages to the injector sent from the ECU.

Retuned Maps modify the ECU so everything from boost pressure, injector timing, rail pressure and most other aspects that relate of fuel economy and performance can be changed.

Additionally plug and play unit often have a greater impact on EGT due excessive fuel being supplied.

[PAT303]

As above,your comparing apples to oranges.One type-Alive-BAS is done by people who know LR's and know what they are doing,the plug and play just adds more fuel and are 50% dearer,go Alive or BAS. Pat

[pannawonica]

As above,your comparing apples to oranges.One type-Alive-BAS is done by people who know LR's and know what they are doing,the plug and play just adds more fuel and are 50% dearer,go Alive or BAS. Pat


Absolutely the way to go ! :BigThumb:

[Naks]

As above,your comparing apples to oranges.One type-Alive-BAS is done by people who know LR's and know what they are doing,the plug and play just adds more fuel and are 50% dearer,go Alive or BAS. Pat

+1

plug n play chips will more than often result in high EGTs and long term issues