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View Full Version : Holden 202 cam, carby, manifold, etc upgrade project



Kime
1st March 2012, 02:30 PM
Hi all,

Am announcing the beginning of my little project.

Recently bought a s3 wagon with a red 202. Hadn't been registered for many yrs. so after I got it, spent ALOT of time (still) fixing all the small things.

It currently has the orig stromy in her. This will be getting replaced with a cam kit which I've purchased from engine performance shop in Sydney, moe engines. The kit comes with
1 x Custom Camshaft Towing economy series.
1 x Lifter kit matched to camshaft
1 X intake Manifold suit 350 Holley
1 x Timing gear kit alloy
Press timing gear and set clearance ready to go

The mechanic I'm working with is a great bloke who "cut his teeth" on the ol straight 6's from GM.

Currently it's getting about 20l/100klm... So, not really that good.. My old s3 ute that I had (same engine) used to get about 12l/100klm. It did have a fairy overdrive, but that was also at 100klm/h where as my wagon is based on doing 85klm/h with only a 4speed box with the 3.55 diff. Everything the same between the 2 except the wagon doesn't have fairy overdrive.

The first step will be to do the cam change over including all intake components.
2nd step will be extractors.
3rd step will be to fit LPG.

While all this is happening I hope to be putting it on a Dyno to get the figures with each upgrade. Seems to be alot of ppl will recommend something, but cannot give Dyno readout figures to match advise. I'm hoping to alleviate this issue :)

Cam kit should be here soon, so I'll keep everyone updated as we go.

Now I know there is other options out there, and ppl will be asking, "why waste money doing this when u could be doing (fill in the blank)"....

My answer to that is, cause I want to... I like the s3 and I like the good ol Holden red 202.. It's pretty simple...

Stay tuned folks :)

Eddie S
1st March 2012, 03:54 PM
Sounds great, I'm also a fan of the good old Holden red. I have a 186 in my S3 Landy wagon. Looking forward to reading your posts,; Good luck and happy rebuilding..Best regards Eddie.:)

33chinacars
2nd March 2012, 12:45 AM
Dont forget the 350 holley . Or will you be going straight LPG. If so get yourself a fuel injected manifold from a 202 black motor, the one that goes over the top of the motor. Best manifold for LPG.

Gary

Kime
2nd March 2012, 07:09 PM
Dont forget the 350 holley . Or will you be going straight LPG. If so get yourself a fuel injected manifold from a 202 black motor, the one that goes over the top of the motor. Best manifold for LPG.

Gary

Thanks Gary. Hv the 350 sitting in the shed ready to go on, just waiting for the cam kit to arrive by post...

Thanks for heads up with the manifold. Will see how this setup goes before the LPG gets installed. The kit comes with a manifold upgrade for the motor, so we'll see I suppose.

Is the reason the injection manifold is better is due to it coming over the top of the engine, giving the gas more time and gravity to mix with the air??

Cheers thanks :D

33chinacars
3rd March 2012, 12:31 AM
Is the reason the injection manifold is better is due to it coming over the top of the engine, giving the gas more time and gravity to mix with the air??
:D

The fuel injection manifold has far better flow caricturistics. If you know what I meen . A friend who build engines for a living ( race engines as well ) had a stroked red motor (235 ci) on straight gas with this manifold in a HR ute. Lets just say it wasnt slow. :):)

Gary

Kime
3rd March 2012, 06:41 AM
The fuel injection manifold has far better flow caricturistics. If you know what I meen . A friend who build engines for a living ( race engines as well ) had a stroked red motor (235 ci) on straight gas with this manifold in a HR ute. Lets just say it wasnt slow. :):)

Gary

Yep, that's what I was imagining. I have seen that type of manifold, I know what ur talking about. I'll see how it goes with the 350 seeing as its going to be duel fuel/LPG.

And hopefully I'll have some pics to put up :D

Cheers

Stuck
7th April 2012, 07:56 PM
In regards to the Holley, back before there was internet to do thorough research, I was advised against the 350 Holley. I was told that they dont like steep angles ie. if you stalled it on a steep dune it could be a right mongrel to restart. I could well be wrong about their suitability as at the time I just went along with it and used a 2 barrel Stromberg and a matching Holden manifold instead.

Cheers,
Anthony.

Homestar
9th April 2012, 09:41 PM
Just like to add a couple of points for your consideration.

1 - When you fit the alloy timing gear to the cam, make sure you open up the oiler a bit. it is the little sqirter that points between the cam and crank gears. pull it out - give it a wiggle and pull with a pair of pliers, it will come straight out. run the next size up drill through the little hole, then put it back in. this will stop the alloy gear howling like a banshee. you should also fit a high volume oil pump.

2 - Holley carbs can starve for fuel on hills. I found a 2 barrel Webber better - you can get adaptors to suit these.

3 - The standard sump can cause oil starvation on hills. There used to be aftermarket deep sumps available, but not sure if they still are.

All the best with the project.

Cheers - Gav

clubagreenie
10th April 2012, 09:13 AM
Agree with all points above, the webber especially. The last of the carbied falcons had a webber that adapted and jetted very well to the holden. Elec choke as well was a nicety. We just cut the front out of the sump and made an extension to the front edge and added about an extra 2L.

Stuck
10th April 2012, 08:02 PM
The Weber sounds like the go. Good 2bbl Strommy / manifold combos are getting scarce.

Kime
2nd July 2012, 08:17 PM
Hi all :)

Thanks heaps for the advice.

So, first thing that went in was cam. Before doing any work was getting 300 klms to 70 lts of fuel... After cam went in, brought it down to 300 klms to 60 lts of fuel. The old cam was so worn that nothing was opening or closing fully.

The next thing I changed was the manifold and carb. Seeing as I got the new manifold in the cam kit, I decided (knowing I can always change it) to use the 350 Holley and manifold. Without even tuning it properly (still rich and wrong size power valve and jets) brought fuel consumption down to 300 klms to 55 ltrs. Slowly getting better :)

The next thing I'm going to do is headers an exhaust and tune the carb a bit. Just need to get a vac gauge to find out manifold vac pressure to work out power valve size.

Then after this, the only thing I wish to do next, is reduce rpm in top gear as most of my driving is highway... I do between 300 and 800 klms per week... So the high revs is killing me...

Does any one hv any gearbox ideas?? I've looked into the rover drives and high speed transfer cases. But is there any options for a 5 speed box??? I rang Marks adapters and asked them about adapters for Holden 202 to something like a Nissan patrol mq box, but he said "we haven't done anything like that for about 15 yrs".... And that's as far as his help went.. :(

I just don't like the idea of bolt ons while still leaving my box not reco'd.. I've never rebuilt a gear box before so I'm not keen just yet to learn... Knowing my luck, my box would be out of action for longer then I've got available considering it's my work truck...

Any tips tricks and advice is always appreciated guys :)

clubagreenie
2nd July 2012, 10:52 PM
The nissan conversion is the way to go. Was a bit of a pain to set up as some of the stuff was not reall up to the usual standards. You might be able to scrounge up the bits from some of the wreckers. The 4sp was stronger but the 5sp was better for performance/economy.

Homestar
4th July 2012, 08:38 PM
Good to see you are making progress. I have a really soft spot for the Holden red motors - not sure why, but probably because I've worked on so many, and you only need about 6 tools to do just about any job on them. Can't really help with gearbox ideas - I ran the standard box behind mine, and put up with going everywhere slowly, but my old IIA was just a weekend toy.

Keep us posted on what you do, and remember that a few pics along the way are always appreciated by all.:)

Cheers - Gav

Kime
5th July 2012, 10:22 AM
Thanks guys.

Yes will have to get some pics up. Just yesterday changed the power valve in the Holley, seems to be running better now.

Not sure what's going on with the spark plugs. Upon doing the plug test in relation to tuning the Holley, checking for colour and what not, I noticed the ceramic part has the little black spots on it. I read on a utube video that that is a sign of pinging and predetonation. Well, I've only got a small amount of pinging now when under hard acceleration. So when I finish setting up the Holley, should I replace the spark plugs and just see what happens to the new ones? In order to be able see if any new black spots appear?

The other question I have, is when we put the new cam in, I blew the head gasket not long after. Due to the age of the head gasket just not being able to handle the new lease of life she received :)

So I changed this, no bother, BUT, now am burning through about 1/2 a liter of oil every 2 tanks of fuel... So about 700klms and out goes a bit more then half a liter of oil.... Any suggestions????

I think I hv decided to go with a rover drive, (now called "roamer" drive due to Land Rover not liking another company having "rover" in it's company name)..

As I do about 60 % highway driving, I would like the extra gear, BUT, as I am a tradie and put some weight in the ol girl, more range in my gears is more favorable instead of a high speed transfer case. And it seems a bigger then Ben hur job just to hunt down the parts needed to mate a Nissan (or anything else) box behind the 202...

And I think I will be putting some parabolic springs under neath also... The old ones just sit flat permanently now... :(

Will start putting up some photos soon :)

Homestar
5th July 2012, 02:22 PM
Regarding the oil consumption, there are a couple of things to look at. My first port of call would be the valve stem seals - does it blow a bit of smoke on start up? If it's not that, then you have oil passing the rings, if it is this, then you may notice a bit of blue smoke under accelaration. If the engine has a few km on it, then it could be either, but remember that the old red motors aren't a patch on modern engines as far as longevity goes. They will almost always need a new set of rings at 200KKM, and if it is closer to 300KKM, then it will probably need a rebore and new pisitons too. Did you notice a lip on the bores when you changed the head gasket - they can have quite a pronounced lip that needs cutting off before removing the pistons, as the rings can get stuck in them.

Cheers - Gav

Bigbjorn
5th July 2012, 04:24 PM
Regarding the oil consumption, there are a couple of things to look at. My first port of call would be the valve stem seals - does it blow a bit of smoke on start up? If it's not that, then you have oil passing the rings, if it is this, then you may notice a bit of blue smoke under accelaration. If the engine has a few km on it, then it could be either, but remember that the old red motors aren't a patch on modern engines as far as longevity goes. They will almost always need a new set of rings at 200KKM, and if it is closer to 300KKM, then it will probably need a rebore and new pisitons too. Did you notice a lip on the bores when you changed the head gasket - they can have quite a pronounced lip that needs cutting off before removing the pistons, as the rings can get stuck in them.

Cheers - Gav

I managed fleets of sales rep cars with red engines. 300,000 k's without overhaul was the norm. Main engine problem was legs out of bed caused by wear in the Trimatic valve block which caused a kickdown at about 130-140 k'sph. Country reps were heavy footed in the days before speed cameras. In the late 60's -early 70's I traded in ex-cabs from a Sydney operator who had 50+ on the road. He used to sell 'em to me at 200,000 miles or two years. Engines were usually good but trans and diff generally shot. Trans were usually three on the tree then, autos rare in taxi service. Red engines live almost forever with regular oil and filter changes. Slant Six Chrysler live longer. They become heirlooms.

Homestar
5th July 2012, 05:44 PM
Yeah, I agree that they will go forever, but the bores are soft compared to newer engines with better metalurgy that is available today. Worn rings won't stop 'em, but they will start to use oil. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of these engines:), but I have had many a head off these, and a lipped bore is very common - not a show stopper, for a quick freshen up, we would just cut the lip off, pop the pistons out, a quick hone and a new set of rings. Slap a new set of valve stem seals in while the head is off, and they are good to go again for ages. Could do all this on a 202 in a day easily. Cheap and easy fix.

Oh, and I'd forgotton about the leg out of bed on these - did that in my brothers HJ years ago when overtaking a mini - but mine was caused by the new twin carbs I had being set too lean. I felt a slight surge, followed by a loud bang, lots of smoke and red lights on the dash... Needless to say, my brother was less than impressed...:D Number 2 rod was hanging out the block, piston was AWOL. when we pulled it apart, there was damage to all the other pistons.

Kime
6th July 2012, 11:52 AM
Awesome, thanks guys.

Still no photos, busy with work an kids, as I'm sure most are. Will try on the weekend, having a garage sale so should have some down time.

Didn't notice a lip when I had the head off, but then again wasn't really looking for one.. But nothing jumped out at me when I was checking things out. Hv a guy who I can get a full motor off for about 200 bucks. Still goes but is old. Am thinking I'll rebuild that one in my own time while learning how to do it, and just keep topping up the oil on the current one. Then when I eventually get around to finishing the rebuild do a swap over.

Prob do that in the background while putting the overdrive on the gearbox.. Just gotta come up with $ 2k for roamer drive first :(

Any one got any advice on parabolic spring setups??? My current springs with army shackles at pretty much permanently flat.... No more "spring" left in em....

Lucky I love my ol girl... Was a great chassis and body, very clean neat and straight... The dash is still in good nick. No cracks in it :o

But I still hate Lucas wiring.... I did ten yrs ago when I was 18 and bought my first series 3, and I still do now with this one... Put a new blinker arm in, now I got no headlights... :mad: hv parkers and high beam but no head lights.. Lucky for test lights I suppose ;)

rovey
12th July 2012, 06:56 PM
I have the easy conversion to the lt 77s 5 speed , this is in my iia forward control. The holden 6 uses the common 6 to landrover conversion found all over Aussie , the lt 77s bolt pattern is a sraight fit .The lt230 can be then used to this and make the truck permanent 4x4 or with an ashcroft kit can be 2 or 4 wheel drive (as mine is). The gearing 1st to 4th is almost the same as series ratios with the 5 th being overdrive. The lt77 ratings are for around 320 nm whereas series boxs are 290 nm , the lt77s is around 350 nm as the large bearings and mainshaft is almost the r 380 box spec . This will make it all Landrover and all modern for spares, give it a try! Mine has the Webber conversion, extractors, electronic ignition is a must, set up manifold vacuum and towing cam and larger valves but i didnt go for the 186 head. It goes great and top gear gets 2500 revs at 100 km/ hour. It delivers around 19 lt/ 100 km (it is pushing a shed lets face it) and when the distribiture is recon it will do better.

Kime
20th November 2012, 10:33 PM
Thanks mate.

Will have to do some research as to what the different boxes are you are talking about...

Still learning :)

Am going to change the diff centres first and start there. This should bring my revs down a little.

So, its been while since i posted in here, life gets in the way i suppose ;)

So nothing really changed with the engine as yet, just been driving it and repairing as needed.

Am currently getting about 18 lt per 100.. Not bad but am chasing what my old landy use to get, which was 14 lt per 100.....

So next thing on the list is a rear salisbury 3.54 diff centre to replace the 4.7's i have now. Have a front one lined up, just need the rear.

:)

Kime
20th November 2012, 10:35 PM
I have the easy conversion to the lt 77s 5 speed , this is in my iia forward control. The holden 6 uses the common 6 to landrover conversion found all over Aussie , the lt 77s bolt pattern is a sraight fit .The lt230 can be then used to this and make the truck permanent 4x4 or with an ashcroft kit can be 2 or 4 wheel drive (as mine is). The gearing 1st to 4th is almost the same as series ratios with the 5 th being overdrive. The lt77 ratings are for around 320 nm whereas series boxs are 290 nm , the lt77s is around 350 nm as the large bearings and mainshaft is almost the r 380 box spec . This will make it all Landrover and all modern for spares, give it a try! Mine has the Webber conversion, extractors, electronic ignition is a must, set up manifold vacuum and towing cam and larger valves but i didnt go for the 186 head. It goes great and top gear gets 2500 revs at 100 km/ hour. It delivers around 19 lt/ 100 km (it is pushing a shed lets face it) and when the distribiture is recon it will do better.

How much would i expect to pay if i change the gearbox i have now, to the Lt 77 and the ashcroft kit to make it 2 or 4 wheel drive??

Cheers
Joel

Kime
24th December 2012, 09:49 AM
OH NO, i'm making water.... and i have a few other issues with engine.....

Its as i expected when i bought it, sitting for a long time, start to add "bolt ons" and other upgrades, things start to let go...

Have a doner engine ready to go, a 202 block with a 186 head on it.. Will put it in with my redline manifold and 350 holley, new (well, old but cleaned up) headers (nothing flash), and go from there. Will see how it goes before i put the torque cam in it.

So this has set back the project, so will be hoping to continue project after xmas, i'm not made of money, so will take some time to save a few pennies and buy the small bits and pieces i need to do the swap over..

Will be doing a few other things also while the engine is out.

Prop take off the gaurds and clean up whole engine bay/fire wall and prob put on a spray on body deadener to the firewall, new engine mounts and prob some gearbox mounts too.

Will add more when more done :)

Enjoy xmas guys and gals :)

marko66
28th December 2012, 10:01 PM
Hi All

Joel while you have the engine out check the clutch and change the thrust bearing and maybe the front seal on the gearbox. Pm Dandlandyman on here for his gearbox sealing solutions :):D

Regards Mark

Kime
28th December 2012, 10:53 PM
Hi All

Joel while you have the engine out check the clutch and change the thrust bearing and maybe the front seal on the gearbox. Pm Dandlandyman on here for his gearbox sealing solutions :):D

Regards Mark

You my friend, are a genius :banana:

I was going thru all the things i may want to do while doing it.

Thank heaps :)

Kime
22nd March 2013, 09:26 PM
Hi All,

Been a while since been on.

Well, i have had yet another detour with the project, still working on the car, just not the engine conversion yet.

The brakes gave way, so i got them sorted. Gee wiz, she pulls up good now lol.

Was still running points distributor. In the now 14 months i've owned her, i have put 30,000 klms on the clock. Did the points when i first got her, bout half thru last year, and just last week needed doing again.....
So i bit the bullet and spent the cash and put an electronic dizzy on her. Got an RAE from repco. Cost $350.
Man o man, does she go good now :)
No more pinging, no more hot engine temps at high revs, and now i've got full power.....

And talking about power, far out what difference the dizzy made. A guy estimated that my engine, a 202 with the carby, cam etc etc that i'm running, would give similar power then an ecotec holden V6 stock engine.
I'd have to agree i think.
Driving home this arvo, full load in the back of my wagon (approx 500kgs), plus my builders trailer loaded up (approx 800kgs), comfortably sitting on 90klm/hr, and put my foot down on a slight incline and no worries at all, just pulls away... Let me tell you, VERY happy camper :)

I know i originally wanted to put it on the dyno each time i put the upgrades on, but with moving house and a couple of other things happening, my access to the "cheap" dyno i had, has since gone.... So no dyno figures in the interim.

I am still considering putting it on the dyno, it'll just be for a final figure readout after i do the upgrades.

So, next thing to do, is saving up for a fairy overdrive so i have 5th gear. Then continue to get things ready for the engine bay overhaul with the engine swap.

Will endeavor to put up some pics too. I did put them up here somewhere, forgot where i added the photos, but will add some to this thread.

Cheers all
Joel.

Series3 GT
24th March 2013, 08:55 PM
Good to hear things are still going ahead, its good when you get a project and you keep going with it. That sounds like a sweet setup with that motor and the overdrive would just make it a proper road cruiser, you'd be able to sit at 110Km/h easy. I've got a 202 sitting in the shed that I picked up for nothing and I was going to do the same thing, chuck a couple of bolt on mods and rebuild it but my 202 has a slight problem with no.3 piston, its broken at the oil ring and separated from there so its a 2 piece piston now. I would replace it but its been bored out to .080 thou so its not very easy to find one and the rings to go with. Keep us updated on how it goes and I'm certainly interested in what power and torque figures it puts out.