How many KM have I got once I get "CHECK BRAKE PADS" warning

[Homestar]

Buying new rotors and brake pads have been on my 'to do' list for a while, and guess what, the brake pad warning came on today. I don't really want to buy them locally if I can help it, so I'm going to order some from OS, but I'm wondering if anyone knows roughly how many KM left on the pads once this fault appears? There is about 3 to 4mm left on the pads by the look of it. I want to make sure SWMBO still has some brakes by the time the new ones arrive.

Oh, and how do you reset the fault once the new brakes are done?

Cheers - Gav:)

[Josh_WA]

my wife drove my D3 around for about a month before pointing it out to me a few years ago. I wouldn't recommend it but it did no lasting damage. i think that would have been at least 1000 kms

[Homestar]

Thanks for that, I'm hoping for a few weeks. I'm ordering rotors as well, so a bit of metal on metal action won't upset me. As long as the car still stops when needed.:p

[101RRS]

If the brakes are basically the same as a D3 you have worn your pads down to about a third left (3mm ??) so quite a few kms yet. If not the same as a D3 then I guess you need another Fully Fat RR person to advise.

Garry

[harlie]

Gav, they will go for a while yet, exactly how long I could not say.

For the fault - you need to replace the sensor, unfortunately they are a sacrificial sensor, once the light comes on the sensor is buggered, there is one sensor per end (can't remember which side), they are about $90 ea locally, good reason to not let the pads get right down (sorry).

[Josh_WA]

Gav, they will go for a while yet, exactly how long I could not say.

For the fault - you need to replace the sensor, unfortunately they are a sacrificial sensor, once the light comes on the sensor is buggered, there is one sensor per end (can't remember which side), they are about $90 ea locally, good reason to not let the pads get right down (sorry).

Yes this is correct I forgot to mention it needed new sensors also when mine got done.

[ariddell]

Not sure if a code needs reset once it has triggered or if it just detects when the new sensor is installed and clears itself without intervention.

If it does need to be reset on a diag system I should be able to do it for you with my RSW AllComm when you've got the new bits fitted if you need.

Always changed ours before the warning was triggered in the past to avoid having to do the sensors at the same time.

[Homestar]

For the fault - you need to replace the sensor, unfortunately they are a sacrificial sensor, once the light comes on the sensor is buggered, there is one sensor per end (can't remember which side), they are about $90 ea locally, good reason to not let the pads get right down (sorry).


Yes this is correct I forgot to mention it needed new sensors also when mine got done.

Bugger!!!:mad: Now you tell me...:p I'll add them to my shopping list...

[Homestar]

For the fault - you need to replace the sensor, unfortunately they are a sacrificial sensor, once the light comes on the sensor is buggered, there is one sensor per end (can't remember which side), they are about $90 ea locally, good reason to not let the pads get right down (sorry).

Just ordered all the parts - FYI, the sensors are $8.64 each from the UK... just a bit cheaper than the stealers... All up for 2 new disks, pads & sensors was $158.00 + delivery (Still to be advised) - hope they aren't going to rip me on this, but I can cancel the order if the postage is not to my liking, they don't process payment until they have advised postage costs.

Will let you know what thier shipping prices and overall service is like.

Cheers - Gav

[spudboy]

Old thread - but am about to replace my front pads on the L322.

Bacicat: Where did you order your pads from in the UK?

From reading above, am I to assume that I need to order the pads and new sensors? The warning light has only just come on, so is the existing sensor re-usable? Or once triggered are they a throw away item?

Thanks
David

[Tombie]

Why not buy local and improve the brakes?

DBA T2 or T3 are leaps and bounds better brakes.....

Bendix does pads...

My price was actually about the same as what yours will be with shipping (I got a parcel from UK last week - freight was 200 pounds!!!! :eek: And weighed the same as 2 brake rotors do!

Get the sensors from the UK and save a bundle...

The DBA rotors will last a lot longer too...

(And your supporting Manufacturing, not importing by using DBA + Bendix)

[spudboy]

Am happy to buy locally, except that the last thing I bought for the L322 was front air struts and they were about 1/3 of the LR Aust price to get them direct from the UK. Only took 6 or 7 days to get here too.

Rotors are OK - so it's just the pads.

But if brake pads are reasonable here - I'm happy to get them here. Where would you suggest? I reckon I need a brake sensor too, so am thinking it's going to have to be a LR specialist....

[Tombie]

Hang on... We're comparing LR genuine and Pattern parts here aren't we!

$8.64 each is after market... Considering the electronics on the vehicle, I'd be OEM all the way....

Changes the playing field somewhat: $25.00 each for genuine

Genuine Rotor: $62.48 AUD (converted) each

Pads (non-OEM) $39.00 pair

your choice, but sounds like freight might take away a decent saving!

[spudboy]

Nope - they were genuine LR Air Struts. Came in a nice LR box. 212 Pounds Sterling each + 140 Pounds delivery (from memory).

[Homestar]

Ok, brake sensor is sacrificial and needs replacing. It was 6 quid for a genuine one from the uk - $79 from the stealers over here. Even if it is non genuine, it doens't matter - it is only a single wire in a bit of plastic that wears through and grounds an input on the ECU - you can't hurt anything by going non genuine here. EDIT - just checked - the $8.64 was for a GENUINE LR SENSOR, not aftermarket....

Oh - you only need 1 sensor as well.

Freight wise, I paid about under 100 quid all up for transport, of 2 x disks, pads, and sensor. Whole job came in under $350 for all parts and freight (Including new brake fluid, brakecleen, etc). Rotors over here were about $180 each IIRC. Just did a search on DBA's online catalogue, and they don't list a rotor for these.

I did the whole local V OS for all prices, and even with freight, I saved over $300 going OS - sorry I had to take my buisiness over there, but I just can't justify spending all that extra. Also, delivery from the UK is quicker than what I was quoted to get some parts down from Sydney - WTF????

Got all my parts from British Parts. Took 4 days to my doorstep from order. Brake parts - Brake Disc Front - SDB000201 | Range Rover L322 | Range Rover | British Parts UK (http://britishparts.co.uk/products/8395-brake-disc-front-SDB000201) They will send you an email with the freight costs on them after you order - if you don't like what they quote, you can cancel the order. They use DHL which I have found to be pretty good.

Looks like the rotors have gone up - nearly $41 now!!!:D

Cheers - Gav

[spudboy]

Thanks for that. I used Island 4x4 last time, but am happy to give BritishParts a go.

Can't believe they can do a front rotor for $41 :eek:

Anyway - I have put in an order so I'll wait and see what the postage is. Didn't realise VAT was 20% these days. I'm sure it was less than that when I lived there (15% maybe??).

[Tombie]

Ok, brake sensor is sacrificial and needs replacing. It was 6 quid for a genuine one from the uk - $79 from the stealers over here. Even if it is non genuine, it doens't matter - it is only a single wire in a bit of plastic that wears through and grounds an input on the ECU - you can't hurt anything by going non genuine here. EDIT - just checked - the $8.64 was for a GENUINE LR SENSOR, not aftermarket....

Oh - you only need 1 sensor as well.

Freight wise, I paid about under 100 quid all up for transport, of 2 x disks, pads, and sensor. Whole job came in under $350 for all parts and freight (Including new brake fluid, brakecleen, etc). Rotors over here were about $180 each IIRC. Just did a search on DBA's online catalogue, and they don't list a rotor for these.

I did the whole local V OS for all prices, and even with freight, I saved over $300 going OS - sorry I had to take my buisiness over there, but I just can't justify spending all that extra. Also, delivery from the UK is quicker than what I was quoted to get some parts down from Sydney - WTF????

Got all my parts from British Parts. Took 4 days to my doorstep from order. Brake parts - Brake Disc Front - SDB000201 | Range Rover L322 | Range Rover | British Parts UK (http://britishparts.co.uk/products/8395-brake-disc-front-SDB000201) They will send you an email with the freight costs on them after you order - if you don't like what they quote, you can cancel the order. They use DHL which I have found to be pretty good.

Looks like the rotors have gone up - nearly $41 now!!!:D

Cheers - Gav

Interesting..... So I did a comparison check (and checked with Britishparts).

Sensor: You are absolutely correct, its just a wire. But yours you got are NOT OEM anyway, they are the aftermarket version...

Now, I made a call or 2, and got a pair of Basic, Non-Slotted, OEM style front discs for $120.00 a pair.
I then got a set of front pads (Aussie made) for $145.00.

So far, I'm running at $265.00 - and supported 2 Aussie businesses...

I've then been quoted for 4 sensors (then I have a spare set) for $32.00 AUD + $25.00 AUD freight from UK for the sensors (express) = $57.00

So all up: I have a spare set of sensors (reducing cost next time)
I have a set of Rotors and Pads...

And I've got it all for $322.00 :cool:

There was no wheeling and dealing or calling in discount favours...

[Tombie]

To help those, DBA does do Rotors for ALL LR models.

L322 to 04/2005 Has the following choices:

Std Front: 2092
Std Rear: 2093
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/5.jpg

HD Front: 42092
HD Rear: 42093
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/6.jpg

T2 Front: 2092S
T2 Rear: 42093S
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/7.jpg

Cheers

[Homestar]

Interesting..... So I did a comparison check (and checked with Britishparts).

Sensor: You are absolutely correct, its just a wire. But yours you got are NOT OEM anyway, they are the aftermarket version...

Now, I made a call or 2, and got a pair of Basic, Non-Slotted, OEM style front discs for $120.00 a pair.
I then got a set of front pads (Aussie made) for $145.00.

So far, I'm running at $265.00 - and supported 2 Aussie businesses...

I've then been quoted for 4 sensors (then I have a spare set) for $32.00 AUD + $25.00 AUD freight from UK for the sensors (express) = $57.00

So all up: I have a spare set of sensors (reducing cost next time)
I have a set of Rotors and Pads...

And I've got it all for $322.00 :cool:

There was no wheeling and dealing or calling in discount favours...

Nice! - thanks for that - for all the phoning around I did, I didn't come in anywhere near that - who do you deal with? As mentioned in my previous post, I went OS as my research showed I was going to be much better off. For the prices you have shown here, I would buy local every time.:)


To help those, DBA does do Rotors for ALL LR models.

L322 to 04/2005 Has the following choices:

Std Front: 2092
Std Rear: 2093
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/5.jpg

HD Front: 42092
HD Rear: 42093
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/6.jpg

T2 Front: 2092S
T2 Rear: 42093S
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/07/7.jpg

Cheers

I obviously didn't go to the same pages as you. I went to the DBA website, went to their online catalogue and went through each screen clicking of 'Land Rover' - 'Range Rover' - 'HSE' - '3.0 Diesel' - '2003' and it cam up with 'No products found for this vehicle'

Great to see someone knows how to drive the internet - I'm a freaking muppet when it comes to searching like that...:D

Cheers - Gav

[Tombie]

Very welcome mate :-)

[Daniel]

There's a bit of misinformation going on in these posts.

The L322 only runs brake pad sensors in the left hand front and left hand rear.
Only 2 sensors are needed not 4 as stated.

There is no VAT charged by UK exporters - the pad prices including postage from UK make them far cheaper than local prices and there is more choice in types. UK suppliers also supply nice slotted rotors if that's what you want.

The pad sensors do not run through any ECU - they are a simple no contact-contact switch circuit direct to the warning lamp. If you don't want the warning lamp on then simply cut the sensor wiring loom off anywhere between the connector and the pad.

My front original LR pads lasted 60k and the replacement pads from UK have this far lasted 125k - I am about to replace them. The rotors are all still original.

My rear original pads lasted 80k. I am still on the first UK replacement pads and they will last till about 250k.

Brake pads can be checked at time of wheel rotation and especially when changing tyres. On L322 RR the pads can easily be checked through the slots in the mag wheels as well.

Tyres last 25k Pads last at least 50k so it is a simple matter and at less than $50 for an axle set of pads why not change the pads every tyre change or every second oil change - simple and not reliant on any warning lamp.

[Homestar]

The pad sensors do not run through any ECU - they are a simple no contact-contact switch circuit direct to the warning lamp. If you don't want the warning lamp on then simply cut the sensor wiring loom off anywhere between the connector and the pad.



Why does this lock on then once activated? It needs to be cleared by a heap of button pressing to reset it in the fault menus. It wouldn't do that if it was just a wire to a light?

[Daniel]

Why does this lock on then once activated? It needs to be cleared by a heap of button pressing to reset it in the fault menus. It wouldn't do that if it was just a wire to a light?

I have an L322 '05 HSE td6.
When my factory original front brake pads wore out and the warning lamp lit up, I took the front wheel off, cut the sensor off the pad, twisted the wires together to again make circuit and the warning lamp went off. It most certainly does not involve any fault resets or "heap of button pressing". As part of my routine I always disconnect the battery on any vehicle I am servicing so that may be a further clue to you. At that stage I did not have any diagnostic tool for an L322. I now have a Hawkeye with comprehensive diagnostics for the L322. I can assure you that there is no function to reset the brake pad warning lamp on any L322 ECU.

I repeat the sensor is a simple connect-disconnect wire in a bit of epoxy fitted with a clip into the brake pad. When the rotor rubs against the sensor when the pad is worn it rubs through the epoxy and causes an open circuit thus triggering the warning lamp.

[Tombie]

Daniel

Nowhere did anyone say you need 4, I suggested getting 2 spares for later whilst shipping as its cheaper in the long run!

VAT is irrelevant here, nothing was mentioned about paying it.

I'd rather trust my life in a Driving school vehicle, driven by an Asian driver, being instructed by a former Indian cab driver before I'd trust my life to a Britpart rotor :cool:

You can get pretty slotted ones from DBA which has more effective cooling than the OS stuff too, much better suited to heavy use over here.

So I dont know where you think all this mis-information comes from.

And some vehicles on other forums have required an ABS system reset to extinguish the brake pad message. (Do a search on google) so it may be one some and not others...

[Homestar]

And some vehicles on other forums have required an ABS system reset to extinguish the brake pad message. (Do a search on google) so it may be one some and not others...

Daniel - this is certainly the case on mine - once grounded, the lamp stays locked on, and did so until the fault codes were reset - there are a couple of posts here about how to do it...

[Laurie]

Gav didn't Harlie say that 05 onwards L322's had a different Canbus ( BMW system changed significantly for 2004 ) ? this might be the source of the different results. Just having a stab in the dark here, as this was a issue with adapting the ZF auto, Harlie was looking into.

Laurie

[Homestar]

Gav didn't Harlie say that 05 onwards L322's had a different Canbus ( BMW system changed significantly for 2004 ) ? this might be the source of the different results. Just having a stab in the dark here, as this was a issue with adapting the ZF auto, Harlie was looking into.

Laurie

Could well be mate - we both might be right...:)

[Daniel]

Daniel - this is certainly the case on mine - once grounded, the lamp stays locked on, and did so until the fault codes were reset - there are a couple of posts here about how to do it...

The circuit does not work by grounding.
It is a simple closed/unclosed loop which is broken when the sensor wears through and goes into unclosed status.

There are many so called "fault codes" that can be reset by simply disconnecting the battery for 15 minutes or so and others by driving over time. This may be one of them - who knows? When I short circuited the sensor loom to imitate a new sensor loom my warning lamp stayed on and then the next time I drove the truck it was off.

[Homestar]

But it is only a single wire - where is the return path if not through the earth?

[harlie]

...
When I short circuited the sensor loom to imitate a new sensor loom my warning lamp stayed on and then the next time I drove the truck it was off.
This confirms that it is recorded in an ecu and not just to the light. An educated guess I’d say its monitored by DSC5.7 (ABS/Trac Control). Whether it resets or not, I don't know, never allowed it come on.


Gav didn't Harlie say that 05 onwards L322's had a different Canbus ( BMW system changed significantly for 2004 ) ? this might be the source of the different results. Just having a stab in the dark here, as this was a issue with adapting the ZF auto, Harlie was looking into.
Just to clear this up. BMW changed the X5 (and many other models) significantly in 2004. Range Rover (owned by Ford at this point) never got any of these changes and went in a different direction that includes an optical network which is completely different (to CAN) again. The petrol Variant of the L322 received some significant electronic changes in late 2005 (My06 with the new engine), and continued to receive changes to various systems the next year and year after that. The L322 TD6 remained largely unchanged right through until the TDv8 with a few minor exceptions to the electronics that were received with the new headlights/grill.

Here we are talking about brakes - The ABS/TC ecu is a Bosch unit, and as far as I can see is the same up to and including MY11, no doubt the firmware has been improved over the years and may have had logic improvement between MY03 and MY05 to include changes as discussed. Remember just because the physical network/ecus have not changed doen't mean the logic they operate hasn't been tweeked between MYs. SO you could be both right - play nice.

[Daniel]

But it is only a single wire - where is the return path if not through the earth?

The brake sensor is not VIN dependent so all sensors are the same - mine has 2 wires and this is confirmed by the plug and socket being duplex.
My initial fix was a jump wire between the 2 pins and afterwards I simply joined the 2 wires on the sensor loom together.

There is no way that any sensor would rely on an earth return through bearings - not even the cheapskate jap crap machines would be that silly!

Have a good look at your sensor where it has rubbed through - it ends up being 2 wires clearly visible as separated = no contact.

[harlie]

After a bit of reading on wear sensors;

They are monitored by the instrument pack. To imply that anything is just connected to a lamp is quite naïve - no switches or sensors are connected directly to what they control. The Instrument pack (on all modern euro cars) has an ECU build in, everything goes through the ecu and many sensors’ status are then relayed via the I bus to other systems and/or messages generated for display. The Instrument Pack has the logic which determines how long the brake pad light is displayed for and that logic has definitely changed but exactly when I couldn’t find. The change in logic added a function to recheck the sensor status on ignition on.

The sensor loom definitely has 2 wires in that sheath – I can even supply the colours.

[Daniel]

After a bit of reading on wear sensors;

They are monitored by the instrument pack. To imply that anything is just connected to a lamp is quite naïve - no switches or sensors are connected directly to what they control. The Instrument pack (on all modern euro cars) has an ECU build in, everything goes through the ecu and many sensors’ status are then relayed via the I bus to other systems and/or messages generated for display. The Instrument Pack has the logic which determines how long the brake pad light is displayed for and that logic has definitely changed but exactly when I couldn’t find. The change in logic added a function to recheck the sensor status on ignition on.

The sensor loom definitely has 2 wires in that sheath – I can even supply the colours.


Thanks Harlie

Yes taken out of context and on its own, I agree that stating that the lamp is not ECU controlled in incorrect. I think you'll find that the comment that the brake pad wear warning lamp is not ECU controlled is in context of the assertion that it triggers a fault code in the brake ECU and needs to be reset by diagnostic equipment.

[spudboy]

Bacicat - thanks for the recommendation on British Parts UK. I ordered the front and rear brake pads + a front sensor Friday. They turned up this morning (Tuesday)! How impressive is that?

Thanks
David

[Daniel]

Bacicat - thanks for the recommendation on British Parts UK. I ordered the front and rear brake pads + a front sensor Friday. They turned up this morning (Tuesday)! How impressive is that?

Thanks
David

What is the link to the UK LR parts supplier?
I used to use Paddocks but they have limited L322 parts especially for tdv8 models.

[spudboy]

Jaguar | Land Rover spare parts at British Parts UK | British Parts UK (http://britishparts.co.uk/)

HTH
David

[Homestar]

Bacicat - thanks for the recommendation on British Parts UK. I ordered the front and rear brake pads + a front sensor Friday. They turned up this morning (Tuesday)! How impressive is that?

Thanks
David

Yep, used them a few times now - always fast delivery, even over the weekend, and the freight prices are reasonable compared to other quotes I've had. Even got a cool mouse pad for free last time with a Jag and a Rangie on it, but SWMBO stole it for work!:mad:

[spudboy]

Well that was an easy job. 1 spanner out of 10 I reckon. All done in an hour.

However, my Check Brake Pads warning is still coming on the console when I start or stop the car (boings a lot - which is annoying), and the red "Brake" light is still on.

I've tried resetting with my IIDTool diagnostic box (cleared all faults) but it's still warning me.

BTW - I replaced the sensor (which had worn through) when I replaced the pads.

What have I missed?

[RangieBit]

Ummm,

It sounds like you've done the two obvious things, which are to replace the pad sensor and take the car for a short drive. You did, didn't you?

If this is so then my understanding was that this should have nudged the ECU into realising that the brake pads had been replaced.

So, no pet theories right now but I'm researching.

Cheers,
Iain

[spudboy]

Hi Iain,

I drove it for 100m and then reversed it 100m, so not really a drive.

However, for no good reason, after about 10 ignition on/off's it has come good! Message gone and red brake light off. Very mysterious, but glad it is looking better.

I'm taking it out tonight for a drive down to town, so that'll be about 50Kms to give it a proper test drive.

[RangieBit]

I think, from my ailing memory, that the ABS computer doesn't go through all (or at least finish) it's routines until the car is travelling faster than 40kph. It might be less than that but faster than a crawl anyway. I know these ECUs supply data to each other for error reporting so maybe that's where it all ties in. You know, driving normally, pull up at stop sign/intersection. Computers see brake activation and speed change and now there's a circuit on the pad sensor.

Which possibly explains why the short test drive is usually what makes the message go away typically.

Sounds to me like you coerced the ECUs into checking the status of the sensor at some point.

I Know Faultmates can read the status of the brake pad sensor in live data going to the instrument pack. I think probably it would show up on a Hawkeye as well. Don't know enough about the IIDTool but I'd suspect that it can probably see the data as well. I guess it's a matter of familiarity and knowing where to look.

Anyway, glad it's all working well (without the sound and light show) now.

Cheers,
Iain

[Daniel]

Well that was an easy job. 1 spanner out of 10 I reckon. All done in an hour.

However, my Check Brake Pads warning is still coming on the console when I start or stop the car (boings a lot - which is annoying), and the red "Brake" light is still on.

I've tried resetting with my IIDTool diagnostic box (cleared all faults) but it's still warning me.

BTW - I replaced the sensor (which had worn through) when I replaced the pads.

What have I missed?

This confirms that there is no ECU setting that needs to be reset for the brake pad wear sensor. Just replace and drive away! The truck will look after the rest.

[spudboy]

I've already posted this on a related thread, but thought it might be useful for anyone reading this thread too.

If is an excerpt from the LR manual on how the message and light on the dash operates.

Cheers
David

Brake Pad Wear
The front brake pads are fitted with a wear indicator system. The Front and Rear pads are wired in series to the
instrument pack which continuously monitors the circuit. When one or both pads wear to their allowed limit, the
indicator circuit is broken and detected by the instrument pack software.
The instrument pack illuminates the general brake warning lamp in a red colour. The instrument pack
simultaneously, transmits a message to the LCM which displays 'CHECK BRAKE PADS' in the message centre.
When the brake pads are replaced, the instrument pack withdraws the message and the warning lamp
illumination when the ignition is in position II, the engine is not running and the vehicle is not moving for 30
seconds.

[Daniel]

...

If is an excerpt from the LR manual on how the message and light on the dash operates.

...

Don't know which LR manual and for which model but my 2005 L322 RR td6 does not display anything on the instrument panel when the pad wear warning lamp is lit.

Also only the lhs pads are fitted with the wear sensors.

I agree that it is an automatic reset after a damaged sensor is replaced.

[spudboy]

Was sent to me by Gap-Diagnostic in Canada, as I was trying to use their IIDTool to reset the warning (which of course was not going to get me very far - but I didn't know at the time....)

[Daniel]

Was sent to me by Gap-Diagnostic in Canada, as I was trying to use their IIDTool to reset the warning (which of course was not going to get me very far - but I didn't know at the time....)

OK understood - I operate HawkEye diagnostics which are comrehensive and are not VIN or even model limited. My HawkEye is capable of diagnosing and model or variant L322 from 2002 to 2012. I also have RR classic and D2 enabled.

I used to run (and distribute) blackbox products but their customer service was hopeless to say the least. Blackbox have a world wide poor reputation in many respects. I still have some of their products and have not bothered to enable gear that I paid for as it is just not worth the hassle. They use customers as guinea pigs with beta versions of both software and hardware.

I did some research recently on IID tool and was surprised at how undeveloped that product was - it seemed that every function is under development and to be released in the future. I also suspect that north american LRs are built to a slightly different specs that Aus which follow UK specs closely. That was observed when the IID had nothing for tdv8 diagnosis. HawkEye has had that capability for years.

What your LR manual advice maybe based on is the 2006-2009 L322 or as they refer in north america as the "Jag engined" L322.

[spudboy]

I was (am) on the IID Tool Beta Testers program, so I wasn't expecting it to be 100% up front, but it got me through my dramas with replacing my front air struts, and it did that very nicely. All the EAS functions seem to work, which was what I needed.

For the home-repairer, it is a good solution. If you are a full time mechanic or a workshop then there will be better tools, but for $300-odd it was a good option for me.

BTW - Thanks for all your input on this - much appreciated.

Also - they have a good system of updating the software. Just plug in with a USB cable to your PC and it re-flashes in about 2 or 3 minutes. Very easy.

[Daniel]

It's always interesting to learn from other's experiences.

$300 sounds Ok but that is VIN locked isn't it?

As I run 2 x RRC, a D2 and 2 x L322 my HawkEye has worked out cheaper per truck.

I currently attempting to make contact with the producer of HawkEye as it is due for a full software upgrade with a module to allow re-programming functions.

[RangieBit]

......

What your LR manual advice maybe based on is the 2006-2009 L322 or as they refer in north america as the "Jag engined" L322
.......



It seems that the quoted information is relevant to all L322 models (UK, NA and ROW) from 2002-2009 at least.

It is a direct quote from the System Description and Operation section of the workshop manual. It is in there for the early versions (02-05) and then the face lift (06-09) but I don't know for the 2010+ models because I don't have that information.

So, definitely not based on the NA spec beasts only.

It's all in RAVE somewhere but there is a lot of information to wade through to find it. I only found it because it was near some other info I was tracking down.

Cheers,
Iain

[spudboy]

...$300 sounds Ok but that is VIN locked isn't it?

....

You can have 3 or 4 VINs on the one unit, and it is not much for extra VINs. I've only got 1 L322 so the VIN lock wasn't an issue.

Pity I also need a NanoCom for my TD5 as well :(

[Daniel]

Pity I also need a NanoCom for my TD5 as well :(

Does not the IID do the td5 as well?

[spudboy]

Nope - different connector + a whole different ECU system I guess. My Defender only has about 10% of the computing power of the Range Rover. Engine mgt and alarm and that's about it!

[Daniel]

Nope - different connector + a whole different ECU system I guess. My Defender only has about 10% of the computing power of the Range Rover. Engine mgt and alarm and that's about it!

The connectors are all the same ODBII - compulsory by legislation on all vehicles sold since the mid 1990's.

It is only the software in the diagnostic tool that needs to adapt to the various ECU's through the standard OBDII plug.

My son had trouble with his EMS on his 2003 Astra - he purchased an app for his smart phone and a blue tooth dongle off eBay (for $30 total). The software on that app is focused on engine ECUs.

He is able to plug in the BT dongle into my L322 td6 OBDII socket and read all live data and error codes (and reset) for my td6 EMS ECU.

I suspect that the Chinese will have comprehensive LR diagnostic tools available very soon. They already have most other vehicles for $50-$100 for a comprehensive professional tool.

[spudboy]

Hey - you are right :D Although one is via a cable and one is via a direct connect "box" the actual connector is the same. Never noticed!

[harlie]

The connectors are all the same ODBII - compulsory by legislation on all vehicles sold since the mid 1990's.

....

He is able to plug in the BT dongle into my L322 td6 OBDII socket and read all live data and error codes (and reset) for my td6 EMS ECU.

I suspect that the Chinese will have comprehensive LR diagnostic tools available very soon. They already have most other vehicles for $50-$100 for a comprehensive professional tool.

And his BT dongle will be able to read the engine ECU in every car - the legislation covers the OBD2 standard be followed for engine Management but unfortunately EMS only.

I’ve seen several of the Chinese devices, and they are all attempting to communicate on the OBD2 standard – this standard was written to cover all vehicle systems. On most vehicles they can only read the EMS, and sometimes extend a little past that – despite what they advertise. The exception of this is VW Audi Group. VW kindly decided to implement the OBD2 standard for the entire car, so most cheapo devices will read and clear "everything" on all VAG vehicles, however they won’t program and struggle with deciphering (mostly don't at all).

Personally I don’t agree that there will be a comprehensive LR product available soon. There’s not enough of a market for them, they need to shift heaps of units at the cheap prices to make it worthwhile – there’s not even a aftermarket stereo produced and they are a common unit with a different piece of plastic cast for the front face. Then there’s the definition of “comprehensive”. As an owner of VAG cars, I’ve compared a couple of the Chinese products to my ($400) VCDS system and the Chinese systems are IMO nowhere near comprehensive – and that’s for VAG, that’s on the standard, they are exponentially better on a VAG car then any other.

We also notice that the available Land Rover systems (with the exception of AllComs) consist of a standard alone box. Test Book, Fault Mate, IID, HawkEye ect all have their logic loaded as firmware on a standard alone piece of hardware – smart, it makes it hard to decompile (harder anyway) – of all the manufacturers LR has one of the fewest available diagnostic providers. Most of the vehicle manufacturers created very complex proprietary systems; this ensures return profits for the franchise owners. These aftermarket diagnostic devices are started by enthusiasts (that turn it into business), who spend unbelievable time capturing and decoding the packets. Land Rover is more challenging because of its ownership history, systems have been completely changed several times now, making it more time consuming for those involved as the previous coding is not carried forward – for example, it is very well documented that HawkEye has very poor abilities for the P38a, yet covers L322 very well.

Nearly all other cars have PC software available for diagnostics (LR only now has Allcoms), some even have open source available like BMW and Merc. This alone gives the Chinese the source code they want (it’s not that they can’t do it, just it’s easier to copy than invent).

On another note - I still think its low of BBS to split off different leads. They do it to maximize costs to the consumer; there is no reason why they can’t produce one lead to do it all…

HawkEye maybe the best compromise for your situation, I agree with you on that, with that many vehicles I'd be after a single device too. However, as someone that has a D2 TD5 and 2004 TD6, I too have a Nanocom1 (which I've had for a long time) and IIDTool (original test group), and I would not swap them for a HawkEye, these two devices provide more functionality for my two vehicles than HawkEye does (I've used it). Nanocom was developed for the TD5 and IID was developed originally for the BMW based 02-05 L322, (there is source available for BMW, as many are finding out not Jag). BTW IID is developed by 3 guys, one lives in France, so we can't blame the North American market like we can for Allcom.

Anyway my 2₵

[Daniel]

.................

On another note - I still think its low of BBS to split off different leads. They do it to maximize costs to the consumer; there is no reason why they can’t produce one lead to do it all…

........

Anyway my 2₵

Yes, thanks. I've been to China several times and they can decompile various programs in devices on the footpath while you wait. Just look at he Keys/remotes/transponders that they sell on eBay if you want proof of that.

I sold my P38a before i acquired my HawkEye so can't compare with BBS.

The BBS gear was OK when it worked but I just got sick of doing all of their guinea pig work at my own expense and then get abused for daring to ask why it got sent half way around the world in a totally non functioning state - time and time again. The only reason BBS ever survived is that in Cyrus there was/is no consumer protection legislation - that is why they set up shop in Cyprus and not in UK. In UK they would have been taken to the cleaners many times over. In fact they would never have been allowed to trade at all.

I understand that there were some issues with HawkEye with the older initial firmware versions.

I imported a HawEye unit from the UK 2 years ago when my son-in-law bought his D2 v8 and needed to sort out his ABS whilst it was covered under dealer warranty. The local former LR dealer (with LR trained mechanics) using a very expensive garage diagnostic centre could not sort the issues out.
With HawkEye we diagnosed it in 20 seconds to a faulty front wheel sensor.

Using HawkEye on my own RRCs, D2 td5, L322 td6 and L322tdv8 it has behaved faultlessly on every occasion.

As regards leads, you answered yourself with your initial advice on the proprietary software - as I understand it, diagnostic systems need different leads configurations (pin assignments) to allow them to access the proprietary ECUs which differ from the OBD2 EMS standard. It could possibly be done by internal electronic switching but as you say it is easier to do it by leads and charge the customer for it. Both HawkEye and BBS have gone down that path. For single vehicle users it has no monetary impact anyway.

I'm currently attempting to track down someone to copy my L322 key transponder chip. I've seen on RangeRovers.net in USA where they do it
but have not found anyone in Aus. I notice that they sell the Chinese machines to do on eBay but don't know if I can trust some one over there with my transponder to copy and send them both back. Maybe I'll have to wait till I'm over in China next year and get it done on the spot.