Buying a MY12 defender.... honest help please

[troyfyn]

Hi everyone

Ok, so im about to purchase a 110 (2.2) defender.
Ive had a 80 series, Tdi disco, troopy, hilux, Pajero... so had my fingers in a few pies..

The one thing the dealer has told me.... "dont read forums" so i thought ide contribute instead ......

I love the defender, have driven a few..... BUT i do honestly want opinions on reliability.. totally not being rude but i dont want to throw almost $60k (with accessories) into something that i cant trust in the wetsern desert, Kimberly or Cape York... this is totally not a slander as i really want to drive it out the door next week but no point just reading good bits, i want to know the bad bits (if and i hope) few.....

I know the 2.2 has also had the gear box altered to cater for change and its a new model but surely not too different from the 2.4

Thanks for all your help and guidance !! MUCH APPRECIATED

Cheers
Troy

[newhue]

Hi everyone

Ok, so im about to purchase a 110 (2.2) defender.
Ive had a 80 series, Tdi disco, troopy, hilux, Pajero... so had my fingers in a few pies..

The one thing the dealer has told me.... "dont read forums" so i thought ide contribute instead ......

I love the defender, have driven a few..... BUT i do honestly want opinions on reliability.. totally not being rude but i dont want to throw almost $60k (with accessories) into something that i cant trust in the wetsern desert, Kimberly or Cape York... this is totally not a slander as i really want to drive it out the door next week but no point just reading good bits, i want to know the bad bits (if and i hope) few.....

I know the 2.2 has also had the gear box altered to cater for change and its a new model but surely not too different from the 2.4

Thanks for all your help and guidance !! MUCH APPRECIATED

Cheers
Troy

I picked up my spanking new MY10 and drove it home proud as punch, the following week it went back to LR for 2 weeks. I drove it again for a week and then it went back to LR for 4 weeks while they scratched their heads on what was wrong with it.
The whole ordeal nearly broke my spirit. I thought I had spent 60K on a lemon, and to make it worse my car is actually made April 1. I thought I'm really stuffed here, what a disaster.
However I had faith in the warranty, and a belief from this forum there is no reason a Defender can be any less reliable than the next motor car.
43K on it now, I have had some awesome 4 week trips in it. We go 4x4 camping all the time, my family love it, I love it, my work mate are envious.

Would I drive it through the desert, to the cape, or anywhere else for that matter, yes I would in a heart beat.
I feel odd say it but I believe it, a Defender has soul, you don't get to enjoy it for free. It will test you somewhere somehow. Prove yourself of ownership, and look after it, and it will serve you for years. I know it's a bit hocus pokus feel good garble, but I bought an old 55 model Land Rover recently, and yes, there was a proving of ownership with that one as well.

you'll be right, don't worry about the knockers, they wish they had the balls to own a Defender, but are too worried about the flack from others.

[troyfyn]

Thanks Jason

That would almost have broken me as well!

i understand sometimes these things just happen....
Any troubles since though..??


Should a new car have to go back like that..... mmmrrrr
Totally get what you mean re soul! guess i just dont think new cars should have to go back with problems (as ive read from owners).

I service all my cars (oil, oil filter and fuel filter) every 5k...... its the electric's that i know so little about, but any new car will have that!

[jplambs]

Gday Troy,

I don't pick my 130 up until the beginning of July, Its actually being built next week, so I can't comment from first hand experience. From the homework I did before deciding to buy I would say the following. Don't try to put a 2 inch lift on the vehicle, for quite a few people it has caused hassles. Get the dealer to check and tighten the clamps on the turbo hoses - they seem to be the first item that people have trouble with.

As far as them needing to go back to the dealer for repairs, I think you'll find that that impression is around mainly because people on this forum are quite honest and open about what happens with their vehicles and tend to share the information. I would also imagine that there are far more Defender owners on this forum in terms of the number of 'fenders in Australia than there are 70 series Cruiser owners on the toyota forums.

New vehicles are always going to have mechanical problems, I bought a suzuki 4x4 quad bike for the farm and within the first month the rear brake housing sheared from its moorings and disintegrated. Suzuki said it had never happened before - if you make something out of a heap of moving parts you have to expect that at some point something has got to go. Just ask the V8 70 series owners whose engine oil seems to disappear at alarming rates.

Anyway, I've rambled enough, hope it helps somewhat.

[newhue]

In the end it had some mystery electrical fault. Apparently LR world wide were a bit miffed, and believe it or not I had approval that if played up once more it was to be replaced.
In all those weeks I didn't have it they replaced all major electrical components from immobilisers to ECU's to starter motots.
No I have had no problems since. Well except for water ingress which has been stopped, and a bolt that holds the window glass fell out so the window didn't work for a bit. And way back in first week of ownership I spotted a helper spring not seated properly. So a good lie under it for a bit and stare at it, run a spanner over things if you like.

Folks will bag the motor, and more so yours as it's a first. My 2.4 had been used millions of times around the world in transit vans, so it's ribbing is perhaps because it was a ford and something new. The 2.2 is not put in there to fail either, but perhaps with EU5 requirements there may be some uncharted experienced with recycling emissions to a new standard. Who knows.

As mentioned before lifting a Puma seems to be problematic with standard running gear. By replacing the front drive shaft with a double cardian version the problem is fixed. Drive it for a while and you may find you don't have to lift it anyway.

Water is a modern vehicles enemy. Mulgo do a Xbox wich mounts under the cubby box. It allows you to transfer your electrics 250mm higher from under the drivers seat. The extra space can then be used for tool or what you like. But the days of driving with your lap full of water are gone for Land Rover. Get it that wet and it's going to the wreckers. Make sure you heat proof under the box before fitting.

[PAT303]

Luv mine,drove it off the showroom floor and straight across Oz doing 15K in four weeks.Haven't regretted buying,I've just regret not having the time to do all the ings in it I want to do.Luv the puma. Pat

[solmanic]

Just be aware that Defenders are really only 95% complete when they roll out of the factory. The owner usually has to endure the remaining 5% finishing off in the first few of thousand km of ownership. How arduous this is depends entirely on how good your dealer is.

Crap dealer = major hair loss and high blood pressure.
Good dealer = plenty of nice loan cars and hopefully a better vehicle at the end of the teething process.

Make sure you have no mission critical work for the new vehicle before the first service.

[Chucaro]

There are many independent and very reputable Land Rover mechanics in Oz and some of them members in this forum.
I would ask them what is their opinion about the Puma and in what they are base it.
You will have a very comprehensive information in this way based in not only one vehicle or particular year but based in many.

[Loubrey]

Land Rover were forced to do some R&D on the Puma after release due to the budget contraints Ford put on them. We are no 5 years down the line and with the exception of a few individual "problem" cars, there are very little wrong with the latest models.

Every brand has their difficulties and my company has now completely abandoned Toyota due to their attitude towards waranty work, price of servicing and repairs and the vast number of "hidden" issues with some of their models (eg the oil issue on 70 Series Cruizers).

My own car (MY2010) has now done 30,000km and the only waranty repair on it to date has been a minor issue with the LHS door handle. I take mine offroad just about every weekend and do some pretty remote travelling in the Pilbara (as does most of the guys up here) and I have enough faith in my car to do so with total peace of mind.

[austastar]

Hi,
My 2009 D130 ute has had no problems.
A loose wheel bearing was detected and fixed on its Tasmanian registration inspection after being driven from Geelong.
The cost was re-reimbursed by LR with no worries.
I'm very happy with mine, and feel very confident in taking it to out of the way places on our own.
Ask around and find a LR specialist that others recommend to do your servicing, use their experience and go with the crowd.
I'm sure you will enjoy the experience.
cheers

[troyfyn]

Good one Lubrey

As for problems with 70 series, yes they used too much oil but it didnt harm the motor and it sorts its self out after 10k...

Ill be heading from the Great Ocean Road up to the kimberly when i get her, so be great to stay in contact to get a good service when im up that way....

Cheers

[troyfyn]

Just be aware that Defenders are really only 95% complete when they roll out of the factory. The owner usually has to endure the remaining 5% finishing off in the first few of thousand km of ownership. How arduous this is depends entirely on how good your dealer is.

Crap dealer = major hair loss and high blood pressure.
Good dealer = plenty of nice loan cars and hopefully a better vehicle at the end of the teething process.

Make sure you have no mission critical work for the new vehicle before the first service.

See thats what i just dont understand why im paying $60k...??? If i spend that much i shouldnt need to consider being in dealerships getting loan cars waiting on a fix and hoping for a better puma at the end......

[Chucaro]

IMO rebuid a County and invest on it $20000 will give you the best LR ever and you will have $40000 left in your account

[KarlB]

My 2010 D90 is 2 years old and has done 50,000 km. No significant issues. I have owned Land Rovers for near on 40 years and have driven a quite a variety of other other makes. The current one is without a doubt, the best 4x4 by far.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[danske]

Bought my 08 with 6000 Kms on it , drove it from Adelaide to Melbourne no issues. Over the next twelve months had three issues , 1) EGR replacement 2 ) Vacuum Pump replacement 3 ) clutch replacement ( my fault ) - all replaced under warranty. Yes a little frustrated , but no more frustrated than any other car that has had issues that I have owned. I drive it alot ( 120Km's at least a day ) and it is very reliable. I also did a 6000km roundtrip through the Simpson - up the hay river and down the finke track in July last year , and only issue It had was loose Bonnet which I fixed with some spring washers ( not supplied originally ) and when I got back LR resprayed top wing where bonnet was wearing on it under warranty again! So all in all a few issues , but I really like the car.

[troyfyn]

Thanks KarlB

No "signifficant issues" what were the insignificant ones....?

Under 100km there really shouldnt be any issues should there...

My 80 series 270k = 1 fuel pump
My Nj paj 320k = 1 alternator 1 cv joint (did the Gunbarrel 3 times)
My 03 Hilux 200k = .......... nothing
My Troopy 290k = ........ nothing
98 Tdi Disco 140k = many electrical, hoses and turbo (and this model i think was amongst the most reliable landy built)

Cars these days are different with all the modern elecs, but why oh why should we expect to encounter defender or puma problems, they all have troubles be it, water seals, electrics, diffs...

As i said I love the 110, please dont think this is a slander i just need some support in convincing myself that its a good thing.... In other words, my hearts in it but my head is telling me otherwise.

Im super glad to hear good stories, please keep them coming to restore some...... faith ;)

Has anyone had dealings with Geelong or malvern dealers in vic? have they been supportive?

Thanks again, its a passion thing i get it, but my wallet isnt full of endless passion either :p

please send me some super good stories!!!

[troyfyn]

sorry i meant under 100k.....

[Scallops]

If you've already committed by buying one, is not all this information after the fact?

How did you find your TDI Disco? If you've owned a Rover, you are probably going to be OK! :D

Seems the early Pumas were shockers, maybe OK now, but in all honesty you can talk to any new vehicle owner these days and horror stories seem to be owned by no particular marque - they're ubiquitous. And perhaps that explains why I am yet to meet any Puma owner who has not required warranty work of some description. And being an active member in 2 LR clubs, I know plenty. Build quality is not good, teething mechanical issues are commonplace.

That said, I'd never be rid of Grover. I love the darned thing! And it's fine now.

My experience has been it's best is to find a good independent service agent rather than use dealers. If you do need warranty items sorted, you have no choice, but for anything else you do.

Good luck with the new Defy. :)

[KarlB]

Thanks KarlB

No "signifficant issues" what were the insignificant ones....?


Issues so far:
Rubber door seal needed gluing back.
Transfer case oil seal replaced (recall).
A press fixing for internal body trim was missing on delivery.
Battery failed in one of the key fobs.


Current issues to be raised at the next service:
Radio keeps losing power (suspected internal power supply problem).
Small leak into passenger foot well when rain is heavy and prolonged.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Allan]

I've had mine over three years now. The only problems I have had that were not self-made was the clutch rattle, fixed with the updated clutch free of charge, and an E.G.R. valve, a problem I am sure all late model vehicles have and the recall for the T.B. oil seal that was not leaking. Self-made problems came from lifting the suspension height when little was known about Puma drive shaft angles. All fixed now. I have driven it through the Kimberley’s, most times well overloaded, pulling our boat over some horror tracks at the end of last wet season and in many areas in the South West since we bought it. I assure you the Puma is an awesome vehicle. Another big plus about any Defender is resale, very hard to beat.
Allan

[sniegy]

Just remember that these things are "hand built".
It's just the nature of the beast as they say.;)

Exterior Panels will not line up!
Interior panels will/can creak & again not line up.
They leak water!
They will let dust in!
All in all they are reliable, they can have issues as others have said, just like any other manufacturer.
2.2s are relatively new, just released late last year & all seem to be ok.
Common issue rear door seals come adrift, crimp/sikaflex it back on all ok.
Dealer should have completed all checks prior to delivery, but after about 500k's things will loosen up, can highly recommend that you run a spanner over all suspension components & just do a visual inspection for peace of mind.

It only takes one slightly backed out pin somewhere & this will/can cause headaches.

But again that can be any manufacturer.;)

Good luck.

WRT dealers, normally dealers will tend to be a little more helpful if you purchased the vehicle from them.:wasntme:

[PAT303]

If you've already committed by buying one, is not all this information after the fact?

How did you find your TDI Disco? If you've owned a Rover, you are probably going to be OK! :D

Seems the early Pumas were shockers, maybe OK now, but in all honesty you can talk to any new vehicle owner these days and horror stories seem to be owned by no particular marque - they're ubiquitous. And perhaps that explains why I am yet to meet any Puma owner who has not required warranty work of some description. And being an active member in 2 LR clubs, I know plenty. Build quality is not good, teething mechanical issues are commonplace.

That said, I'd never be rid of Grover. I love the darned thing! And it's fine now.

My experience has been it's best is to find a good independent service agent rather than use dealers. If you do need warranty items sorted, you have no choice, but for anything else you do.

Good luck with the new Defy. :)

Haven't had a warranty issue,22,000k's on the clock. Pat

[newhue]

It was said to me when I was in the same position of trying to convince myself about a Defender, if I had made it to AULRO it was a forgone conclusion that you want it, so go get it.
I took that advice. I had never spent 60K on a vehicle before. I have never had a vehicle like it, and I don't wish to ever part with it.

I work with guys with all types of 4x4, anything new had had something fail, some more than others. From what I have seen a Defender is no better or worse than its competition regarding warranty issues. However use it for what it is built for and it leaves all the competition behind bar a Patrol and perhaps commercial lines of Land Cruiser.

If you expect no issues under 100K than don't buy a Defender, but don't by a toyota either, so your money lay in a Patrol; and well who knows it may fail as well.

[GEK064]

My D90 was my first new car, so a decision not easily made. Now that I have 2k on the clock I have a long list of mods that will improve the comfort level. Already been off road and it was just fantastic! Like another said on this thread, these cars have soul. Just wish LR wold spend a few extra dollars on noise and heat protection.

[TimNZ]

My 2010 110 Defender is about to clock up 60,000kms. So far LR have had to re-glue a door seal and thats about it. One of the guys in the UK has clocked up over 230,000 miles without too much greif:

Defender2 - View topic - 230,000 miles today (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic11626.html)

Take one for a good long test drive.......


Cheers,

[Drover]

Just read the Defender2 thread on this 2007 PUMA with 230,000 mile...

Original motor, turbo, gear box, diffs, axels blah blah blah

That’s nearly 400,000k's - Go the Mighty PUMA

The King is Dead, long live the King

[Sue]

See thats what i just dont understand why im paying $60k...??? If i spend that much i shouldnt need to consider being in dealerships getting loan cars waiting on a fix and hoping for a better puma at the end......

It's not just Land Rovers.. last year my father spent well over a hundred grand on a new cruiser with extra's.. which has spent more time at the dealers being 'repaired' than it has on the road..

We took our Nissan back several times (to an uncooperative dealer) with problems when we first bought it..

and how many people purchase a brand new car/home/boat without some kind of teething problem?..

I had a small problem with a leaking pinion seal on my Defender when I first got it.. but it's since been fixed on warranty so I don't see it as a problem.. The Defenders are a great car and as far as I have seen no less reliable than the other brands on the market.. I love mine and wouldn't even consider having anything else.. :)

[jimb]

Should new cars need work, regardless if they cost $30,000, $60k , $100k?
Answer: No.

Do you believe defender is more likely to have problems, and you don't want 'more' problems?
Answer: buy what you consider a more reliable purchase.

Confirmation bias is strong way of gaining ' knowledge' . We often see what we want see/ hear etc.

I think if you start thinking this way then you are better of buying something you regard as more reliable.

Enjoy whatever new car you buy. Such a big purchase for our short life!




---
I am here: Google Maps

[jasonedu]

i got my new defender with the expectation of problems and have had nothing major so far. few minor things to sort out but overall no regrets.

I wonder if the 2.2 will introduce a new set of problems?

[PAT303]

Doubt it. Pat

[carlschmid2002]

I noticed you were looking at Dealers in Malvern or Geelong. I can't help you there but I am purchasing mine through the dealer at Port Melbourne. They have been very helpful so far. I pick it up next week so I will keep you posted. Ask for Michael.

[Scallops]

Haven't had a warranty issue,22,000k's on the clock. Pat

Glad to hear that. From memory, neither had I at that mileage. Double it and I could have filled a New York Phone book with issues. A quick glance at the pommy Defender 2 Puma area would suggest many issues have not really gone away, even with the newer ones. But I hope your experience continues.

[islu51]

....the largest user of Puma, non military is a UK hire company that has circa 800 on the current fleet, and they recently stated that they are very close to Toyota in reliability....some may say that is not as great as it used to be, but in the UK the only Toyota work truck available is the Hilux, so i would say that is a compliment..having said that I have owned 3 new TD5's and they were essentially faultless.

[Beckford]

I have a MY10 Puma with 24,500 km on the clock.

The only drama I have had is the AC which has been fixed twice under warranty.

The current Defender out of the box is the most cable vehicle ever built.

Make you get good rubber and you will go anywhere.

Cheers,

Beckford.

[slug_burner]

have they sorted the puma diff?

[Out of Africa]

I bought my MY12 110 as a demonstrator with 86km on the clock from the dealer in early Feb. I bought it because I wanted the best looking 4x4. Done 2,000km so far and no problem.

Buy it because you want it. If you are afraid something might go wrong in the first 100,000km dont buy any car, 4x4 or anything else, because it can't be guaranteed - save your $60,000 and rent when you need one.

Oh by the way all my friends are envious as hell!

Rob

[Loubrey]

have they sorted the puma diff?

Diffs on 90's have been and are still pretty much strong enough for anything you might want to do with it outside motor sport, so no problem there.

110's and 130's have been discussed at length on a recent thread about the longevity of Puma diffs. The after market suppliers recon they are useless, but the vast majoroty of them have no issues. Each to his own I suppose...

[firsttimedefender]

Face it my friend: we buy a defender because we want one and decide then and there to live with some of the headaches. The old adage of the glass half full holds true. You're guaranteed some issues but the good outweighs the bad. I have a 2010 Puma coming on to 53k and had some issues all of which LR were pretty good with the warranty (eg clutch and stone guards cutting through abs sensors)
But on the plus side I put 16k crossing the Tanami and Gibb river road and it never stopped. We got caught in massive storms near Mt Dare and were able to get to the station through slop that had EVERY other 4wd stuck on the side of the road. People bagged LR non-stop but guess who everyone wanted to go first when it was time to leave and the roads were still atrocious!? It gets you there and back; but keep your eye on your vehicle maintenance and servicing and it'll overall be a good experience.
If you look back on your other vehicles you most likely had the glass half full/empty experience there too!