24v compact starters

[Dougal]

It appears my starter solenoid has gone again. Even though it's 6 years since the last time, now would be the ideal time to find a better starter.

I currently have a 12v compact unit (2 bolt) which I think is Hitachi and from a 12v 4BC2 engine. It cannot crank my engine on 12v so is fed 24v. The main problem there is the 300-500 amps it draws. A 3kw 24v starter would only draw around 125 amps.

I would like to replace it with a 24v version of similar dimensions. But do they exist or is rewinding mine to become a 24v verions possible? I don't have the clearance for the geared 24v starter.

[Dougal]

Crisis over, after stripping the solenoid, cleaning up the contacts and resoldering the wires it's working. It's one of those jobs where you spend longer getting to the problem than fixing the problem.

But along the way I discovered a starter shop that thinks a 4.5kw Denso geared starter will fit and work. Mine is the 2 bolt version with 120mm bolt spacing. The pinion is 9 tooth and my current starter is direct drive. This new Denso starter would be 30mm longer, but I haven't received any pictures yet, only a length measurement.

I also spoke to a motor rewinder who thinks it could be possible to rewind the starter as a 24v version. Whether you can get the torque in a direct drive package is another question. Perhaps I should source a second hand starter and post it off to them?

[bushhack]

the starter motor on my 4bd1 has a Toyota badge on it ! :(
interested in part number or photo??
oh also 12v my other 4bd1 motor has a 24v starter looks quite compact!

[Dougal]

the starter motor on my 4bd1 has a Toyota badge on it ! :(
interested in part number or photo??
oh also 12v my other 4bd1 motor has a 24v starter looks quite compact!

Yes please, photos and part numbers if you can get them.

[Bush65]

Some time ago I made a scribble in my manual with Nikko part numbers for 24V, 3.5kW, 9 tooth starter motors for the 4BD1T, the part numbers were:

0-21000-4720
and
0-2300-0241

[DRanged]

Hey mate
This is what I now run with the truck set up. It starts the motor in a couple of seconds and clears the chassis.

"Best starter motor I could find for chassis clearance was a Clark Bobcat starter motor from Auto Electrics Australia

p/n ASDR112473G

9 tooth
35mm pinion
CW turn
2 bolt @ 120mm
2.5kw
12V

Justin

[bushhack]

here are the pics and numbers that appreared on the stickers

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/841.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/842.jpg

24v starter
24v s24-03c
3.5 kw 894333438

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/843.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/844.jpg

12v starter
toyota
28100-54170
128000-9592
12v 12h08
denso

[Dougal]

Back to this problem again. Last month it was the solenoid, this month the solenoid is clacking fine, but no-go. I have yet to look further into the problem, I'd prefer to just buy a starter that worked.

So I took the camera and a clamp-meter to the Isuzu 4BC2 here which is 24v factory.

Starter is a Hitachi S24-03A. I measured 235A peak current when starting a cold engine on a warm day. I didn't measure battery voltage.

There is another number on it which follows the usually Isuzu P/N scheme:
8942549221.
If I could find an indexable one of these, I'd be sorted. The stocker just hangs out too far. Fine if you have a C-section chassis rail, no good for those closed in.

[Dougal]

Some time ago I made a scribble in my manual with Nikko part numbers for 24V, 3.5kW, 9 tooth starter motors for the 4BD1T, the part numbers were:

0-21000-4720
and
0-2300-0241

Hi John

I found the first number in here:
http://www.elreg.com/files/NIKKO%20CATALOGUE.pdf
0-21000-4720 has been replaced by:
516-015350:
Starter TCM/Nikko 24V 3.5kw 9 tooth
Replaces: 015350, 0-21000-4720, 185-112, 581100-164-0
Used On: Hitachi, EX100, EX120, EX150, Isuzu, Excavator, Industrial Engine, TCM820

It is an inline 24v. Looks very promising, just need to check the length.

[Dougal]

Bingo. Shame about the price.:(
Starter for HITACHI EX100 Excavator (http://mascostartersandalternators.com/Sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=292)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/427.jpg

[Dougal]

$US296 plus freight from Bosch Alternators | Starter Motor | Delco Remy | Elreg Distributors LTD (http://www.elreg.com/) in Canada.

Today I decided to give it another try and it started. I'm still ordering a new one, but this means my garage isn't blocked by 2.3 ton of rover while I wait for it to arrive.

[Dougal]

New starter is fitted.

The starter which arrived from Elreg in Canada wasn't branded and had "brazil" as one of the only real markings on it. Same package as my existing starter and it comes with a full dyno test-sheet and graphs of speeds vs torque and current etc.

Highlights of the dyno sheet:
4.44kw max power.
7648rpm free running.
763A max current
40.6Nm max torque

To fit it I unbolted and threw away the "safety relay". It appears most new starters come with these and I have no idea why.
I also unscrewed the solenoid and rotated it 120deg (it has 3 screws) to put the hot-wire and signal wire clear of the chassis rail.

The old starter had been continuing to play games, yesterday morning it wouldn't crank fast enough to start. Every day or so an attempted start would get a "click" and no cranking.

The new starter is an animal, my tacho isn't accurate enough to tell the exact cranking speed, but it feels like 500-600rpm. It seriously cranks just below idle speed (it was 1 deg C when it was fitted) and sounds like an air-drill. I measured the max current draw and hit 300A, compared to 520A on the old starter. It now starts so fast now that average cranking amps can't be easily measured.

The before/after change is that big I find myself laughing after turning the key. The starting of this has always been marginal and required batteries in excellent shape. Now it's awesome.:cool: