Winch- Front or Rear

[101RRS]

My 101 has a mid mounted pto winch and with about maybe 20 mins work I can change the cable to pull front or rear. 101 Ron has his cable rigged up to pull from the rear as he believes this is where he will need to winch his vehicle from where mine is still set from the front - simply because it has always been there.

On most other vehicles electric and pto winches are mounted on the front.

The few times I have had to be recovered by others, it has always been to the rear and my one winch recovery was to the front but only because the cable was to the front but an anchor point was a long way off. It would have been better to recover from the rear.

So putting aside the difficult issue of mounting a winch permanently on the rear, based on peoples experiences in self winch recoveries, would it have been better to have the winch mounted at the rear or where most are on the front.

Cheers

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

out the rear. how many times have you reversed yourself into a bog?

[LowRanger]

out the rear. how many times have you reversed yourself into a bog?

Going on that sort of philosophy,how many times have you reversed up a difficult slippery rocky hill????

[101 Ron]

My 101 winch is to the rear so that others can follow...:p:p:p:p:p
The other reason it is nice to know if you get yourself in the poo, you can get yourself out just as quick

[Xtreme]

This is one reason why I have a Tirfor instead of a front mounted winch. Far more universal - recover from front, rear, side, wherever. And IME winching forward is, in most cases, not always the best option.

Admittedly, more effort required than with an electric or PTO winch but that just makes you more careful to avoid needing to winch in the first place. :angel:

Having said all that, the centre mounted winch (apart from the servicing aspect) makes a lot more sense than a front mount.

[rovercare]

Going on that sort of philosophy,how many times have you reversed up a difficult slippery rocky hill????

Exactly that!

Front for yourself, rear for others

Why not add some cable and have a runner so it's out both front and rear?

[101RRS]

Thanks for all those views - at this stage looks like the rears are a tad ahead


Going on that sort of philosophy,how many times have you reversed up a difficult slippery rocky hill????

You make a good point and that is one of the main scenarios fro front winching - however you can always back down the hill and try again on a different line or up the chicken track.

However if the winch was rear mounted at least you can still winch up backward and if on the flat still have the ability to winch backward out of that big mud hole.

Cheers

Garry

[austastar]

Hi,
some where on a UK site I think, was a LR with a central winch and the cable could be rigged so it could 'spider' along its own cable e.g. across a slippery side slope.

Sorry I can't be any more specific, but others may know of it.

cheers

[101RRS]

In theory the 101 winch (which is a capstan style winch) could be set up to do that but it would take a fair bit of setting up. Cable would have to be stored somewhere else.

[Sleepy]

I think you answered yourself a few posts up. If you are happy to abandon the climb and back down or try alternative route (if avbl) then rear is the answer. Of course sometimes heading back the way you came can be just as nasty or not practical.

I am thinking of mid mounting an electric winch in the 101 with a pulley at rear then exit at the front. Means you can pull either way :D - Just need a bit more cable.

[Tank]

Thanks for all those views - at this stage looks like the rears are a tad ahead



You make a good point and that is one of the main scenarios fro front winching - however you can always back down the hill and try again on a different line or up the chicken track.

However if the winch was rear mounted at least you can still winch up backward and if on the flat still have the ability to winch backward out of that big mud hole.

Cheers

Garry
Garry, I use my front mounted winch to winch backwards without any problems just make sure you dont loop the cable around anything underneath and with the proper use of a couple of snatch blocks I can winch in any direction I wish. Preferrable to have a fairlead with rollers though, Regards Frank.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

This old chestnut again:)

There is no right and wrong, so here's my thoughts!

If you spend most of your time doing a lot of single vehicle travel, at the back is normally best - pull yourself out and find another way around, rather than pulling yourself further into the poo.

If you often have others around, front is often best because then you can often make your way to where you want to go.


Having said all that, the type of vehicle you have is also a big factor. A 101 or 130 isnt too bad to get a rear mounted winch fixed in. A 110 and 90 is significantly harder, and a Disco / RR... well... good luck!

I do however know of a few 90's and 110's that have some excellent rear cross member modifications that allow for a Warn 9.5XP mounted in the rear cross member, with only the fairing as a protrusion.

So thereby lies my preference... One at each end:D:D

Jon

[isuzurover]

Contrary to many of the posters here, I have had a 4:1 ratio of front:rear winching/recovery.

Front winching.
1. Went down a slippery, greasy hill in SF in the sunshine coast hinterland. Realised that going further wasn't a good idea in weather conditions. Turned vehicle around and no chance of driving back up hill - which was the only way out - needed to winch up.

2. Gearbox locked up when driving up a steep hill. Best way to recover vehicle was winch it down the hill. So winch on the front winching the vehicle down safely with the t-case in neutral.

3. Dave S on here was driving through a river crossing and one side of the vehicle slipped off into deep water with a soft bottom and lost traction. Front or rear winching would have been possible, but front was the direction he needed to go anyway.

4. Bellied out on log while driving over. Needed to winch forwards. Winching backwards would have been no use, as no way to turn around or drive out the way I came in.

Rear winching:
Drove out onto lake dissapointment while doing the CSR. Sank up to axles. No point winching forward into worse mud. No rear winch and nothing to attach winch to, so 2-vehicle snatch after digging car out.

[Redback]

Jon has it in a nutshell, front and rear if you travel alone all the time, front if your with other/friends.

Really, if you do a lot of extreme stuff, then front and rear would be the best option, but if your touring, how many touring 4WDs do you see with two winches, why put yourself in a position that would require two winches, your on holidays, why spoil it, avoid the extreme stuff and enjoy the journey.

99.99% of the time a front winch will be fine and as Frank said, winching backwards with a front mounted winch can be done without a problem.

Baz.

[Tank]

Last time I blew a head gasket I winched my Disco backwards onto the car trailer with my front mounted winch. No harder than winching forward unless you are bottomed out, then you have a piece of rope tied to your front and rear bumpers before you go into a precarious bog hole so as you can pull the cable back. Then again I would either go around or go back, regards Frank.

[101 Ron]

My 101 I can get the cable swapped around quickly front or rear in as little as 10 minutes, as the tools and gear for the winch is handy on the outside of the vehicle and I carry the 15/16 spanner for dropping the fairhead pulley quickly. The reason why my winch cable is normally at the rear is in NSW it is illegal to have the 101s large fairhead sticking out in front of the vehicle.
In fact the bull bar on my 101 was fitted for rego to cover the front pintle.
I found the winching I do is about 50/50 , but most is rearwards as that is where the cable normally is.
Winching from the rear with a PTO winch requires good coms via UHF or a person standing near the drivers door.
Most non PTO rearward winching people dont realise this and they need on the spot training to get them to help.
When I was going though the Abercombie by myself with the 101 towing a 1.5 tonne trailer I swapped the cable to the front as a just in case I didnt make it up the steep climbs.

[101 Ron]

Garry , I seem to remember being stuck in a fish bowl at stockton and you winched me out.
If no one else was there it would have been a front winch out job for me.( and digging in the spare tyre)
I remember early in my 101 owner ship without lockers I had trouble at the lower part of the steps at Yalwal and that was a front winch out job to get out as I entered the area driving down hill.
All my other winching has been rearwards , mostly to help other people or the move fallen trees over tracks on the farm.
I find if I need to winch a tree or other vehicle at the front , the 101 can be turned around and just winch from the rear.

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1060.jpg

Not me by the way standing near the cable.

[Blknight.aus]

Going on that sort of philosophy,how many times have you reversed up a difficult slippery rocky hill????

a few more than Im going to admit to. (3 questions - fail on poor route selection so no I didnt need to go there and there was no room to turn in one case and the same deal from trusting a packet leader who in hindsight shouldnt have been packet leading for the same reasons a few more times, but at least I had a winch and no trailer those times.)

that said and ignoring the "going up difficult slippery rocky hills basically means you havent paid attention to the 3 questions" thing.

Its a 101 the PTO winch is center mounted and you can run it out front or rear. Its better to set it up for rearwards winching for a few reasons

1. with it out the rear the winch lead is less likely to be damaged from driving into something,

2. If you're in the mud or bogged you will usually have driven in and going out backwards is typically easier than going out forwards.

3. if your pulling something into position to tow it your generally going to tow it from the rear of the vehicle

4. if your pulling something onto a trailer the trailers at the back......

5. (this ones a bit iffy depending on configuration) theres more between you and the winching when winching from the rear if something snaps.

[101RRS]

Thanks for all the comments. While I used the 101 as an example of how you can winch from either end if necessary It was not the vehicle I was thinking off. I can switch the cable around in that if needed.

I was actually thinking of my RRS but did not want to bias the information by saying so upfront. As I said my assisted recoveries in the 101 were to the rear and I have only been stuck in the RRS once and that had to be snatched out from the rear.

I have a spare electric winch that I was going to put in a portable tray and was intending to carry in the 101 (I have the room) and could be put in the tow bar to pull from the rear but then I bought the RRS and have been considering winch options for it. I could put the electric winch in the front but that is a very expensive option and I was thinking that maybe if winching from the rear was preferred I could put the winch on the portable tray and into the Mitch Hitch receiver and carry it there on those trips where winching or getting stuck might be an issue.

Having a winch in the front will definitely help if I must move forward in a particular situation but that would be rare. The winch on the rear might be an eyesore but it is only temporary and the main issue is getting power to it.

As suggested, a hand winch is another alternative but I am getting a bit too old and am too unfit - beside the need to buy a defibrillator for use when I have finished hand winching by negate the cost benefit.

Cheers

Garry

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[101 Ron]

Swapping to front
note the fairhead is fitted.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1035.jpg

[101 Ron]

On the hook I now have a quick release hair pin instead of a split pin to hold on the hook to the cable end
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1033.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1034.jpg

[Blknight.aus]

In all seriousness.... (As I had assumed you were talking about where you were going to rig the 101)

why not set up a cradle mounted winch that goes into the receiver and the put another reciever in the front.

you dont need massive 1000000000000000000LB winch, you can get away with a small 1800LB job if your only a little stuck and a set of blocks will let you reeve up to 6:1 quite easily giving you plenty of pull if you need it and the whole thing is nice and light, powering one of them isnt a big deal either.

if you leave me the 101 in the will I'll give you one of my spare tirfors.

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1032.jpg

[101 Ron]

In all seriousness.... (As I had assumed you were talking about where you were going to rig the 101)

why not set up a cradle mounted winch that goes into the receiver and the put another reciever in the front.

you dont need massive 1000000000000000000LB if your only a little stuck and a set of blocks will let you reeve up to 6:1 quite easily giving you plenty of pull if you need it and the whole thing is nice and light, powering one of them isnt a big deal either.

if you leave me the 101 in the will I'll give you one of my spare tirfors.

The next time I rig up a electric winch on a vehicle i will most likely rig a removable cradle set up that when in use the winch pulls from a anchor point on the vehicle front or rear.......side ways etc and just install anderson plugs for power supply.
I would still carry the winch behind the bull bar as normal the save room carrying it inside and remove it to save weight when it is not needed around town.
This set up would allow easier servicing of the winch and it could be transfered with less trouble to another vehicle when it come time to up date.

In a emergency even a jump starter pack could be used for a short pull.(away from the vehicle)
I am supprized none of the aftermarket blokes have not chased this in any big way.

[LowRanger]

a few more than Im going to admit to. (3 questions - fail on poor route selection so no I didnt need to go there and there was no room to turn in one case and the same deal from trusting a packet leader who in hindsight shouldnt have been packet leading for the same reasons a few more times, but at least I had a winch and no trailer those times.)

that said and ignoring the "going up difficult slippery rocky hills basically means you havent paid attention to the 3 questions" thing.

Its a 101 the PTO winch is center mounted and you can run it out front or rear. Its better to set it up for rearwards winching for a few reasons

1. with it out the rear the winch lead is less likely to be damaged from driving into something,

2. If you're in the mud or bogged you will usually have driven in and going out backwards is typically easier than going out forwards.

3. if your pulling something into position to tow it your generally going to tow it from the rear of the vehicle

4. if your pulling something onto a trailer the trailers at the back......

5. (this ones a bit iffy depending on configuration) theres more between you and the winching when winching from the rear if something snaps.

By ignoring the "going up difficult slippery rocky hills" supposedly now means that you haven't paid attention to the 3 questions thing?
But in item no.2 driving into the mud and getting bogged,obviously means the same 3 questions must have been ignored/overlooked!!!!!

You can be pedantic in any direction if you want to try and justify a point that you are making.
There are many tracks around that it is easier to winch forward and proceed further up a hill,than it is to winch backward and possibly put yourself or the vehicle in a dangerous position.
Yes in an ideal world,a winch at both ends would be the best scenario,unfortunately,it isn't an ideal world,and everyone makes decisions based around the normal use that their vehicle gets.
And yes,I would love a 101 and would leave the PTO on the front and fit an electric winch on the rear.
And Gary,I think the easiest fitment on a RRS is mounted to the bullbar on the front,and if you want,then a small electric winch mounted to the tow hitch on the rear,like Dave mentioned would cover all bases.

[101 Ron]

Warn Industries - Mounting Systems: Multi-Mount Winch Mounting System (http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-systems/multi_mount.shtml)
http://www.warn.com/atv/mounting-sytems/multi_mount_portable_system.shtml

[Blknight.aus]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]

By ignoring the "going up difficult slippery rocky hills" supposedly now means that you haven't paid attention to the 3 questions thing?
But in item no.2 driving into the mud and getting bogged,obviously means the same 3 questions must have been ignored/overlooked!!!!!



the line about the 3 questions thing was to indicate "Ignoring all else and if your going to have to winch" because if you pay attention to (and get it right all the time (you wont, everyon has snafus)) the 3 questions you wont have to winch unless you count on the winches ability as part of your vehicles capability. Thats fine for a winch-a-thon or Comp Event but not so great if your a trip leader (which accounts for a couple of my ok, so now we've got a major bit of reversing to do) or If you're winch fails.

Going up slippery rocky hills is generally more dangerous to life and limb than driving into a bog hole and 101's are much more adept at going up hills than down them especially when they are empty. heres proof Forward Control - rearward not so! - YouTube

and Im still looking for the vid of the FC101 going tail over down hill and rolling.

The 3 questions are a lot more important when you're risk factors are higher.

did you read the bit about the 101 winch being center mounted? have you heard of the 6 P's

if you're solo (or in a group) and you drive into a Bog hole which way is likely to be the easiest to recover towards? typically its rearwards it also has the added advantage that you know where the firm ground is because you've just been there and you know that there IS firm ground somewhere back there.

how easy is it to rerig a winch thats mostly (or potentially fully) submerged? not very, I'd suggest that you trust me on that but if you like go borrow someones 101, center winch inter or R series W/Winch stick it in till its over the chassis in water and up to the shackles in mud then try to re-reeve the winch

how often is your winch underwater or mud when you're on a rocky surface going up or down a hill? Not often Admitedly It does happen occasionally but then thats when the 6P's come into play.

really smart operators (and I'm not implying anything here) will check what they're about to traverse and rig the vehicle appropriately.

[101RRS]

And Gary,I think the easiest fitment on a RRS is mounted to the bullbar on the front,

We all mount our electric winches on the front - why? I don't know - I guess simply because it has always been done that way rather than an defined need to always winch forward.

My own experiences - and those of Ron are that generally vehicles will need to be recovered to the rear. If I don't need to, I would prefer to not to have to spend about $3000 putting my winch on the front because "that is the way it is done" but I am not sure.

Rons idea has merit - my power pack is 1600cca and has a 17A/H battery so would last a few minutes winching.

Thanks for all the different views - provides something to think about.

Garry

[Tank]

Warn Industries - Mounting Systems: Multi-Mount Winch Mounting System (http://www.warn.com/truck/mounting-systems/multi_mount.shtml)
Warn Industries - Multi-Mount Portable Winch System (http://www.warn.com/atv/mounting-sytems/multi_mount_portable_system.shtml)
Have a look at the bloke busting his pooper valve, built like a brick outhouse, good hernia material and slipped discs, leave all that to the young blokes that haven't already stuffed their backs, Regards Frank.

[86mud]

Interesting thread.

I am contemplating a rear winch (Warn 9000) on my Defender 130 HCPU. To get it in the position I want, it will involve chopping a section out the rear cross member and grafting in a reinforced section which will need to include the tow bar mounting

The only thing stopping me at the moment is time. I will need to remove the long range tank, but I am hoping that I can avoid removing the HCPU tub.

The plan/design is all drawn up (in my head)...just need some time.

I often travel alone - I currently have a Warn 9000 up front and front and rear diff locks, so adding a rear winch will just be the last piece of the puzzle.

Cheers
Andrew

[KarlB]

Have a look at the bloke busting his pooper valve, built like a brick outhouse, good hernia material and slipped discs, leave all that to the young blokes that haven't already stuffed their backs, Regards Frank.

That bloke seems to be 'mounting' an XD9000i Portable. It weighs 47 kg. That is more than two bags of cement!

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Yorkshire_Jon]

...It weighs 47 kg. That is more than two bags of cement!

Cheers
KarlB
:)

Or less than 1 of the older UK sized cement bags! I spent many years lugging those 100cwt bags about. Man up:D

[Loubrey]

Interesting thread.

I am contemplating a rear winch (Warn 9000) on my Defender 130 HCPU. To get it in the position I want, it will involve chopping a section out the rear cross member and grafting in a reinforced section which will need to include the tow bar mounting

The only thing stopping me at the moment is time. I will need to remove the long range tank, but I am hoping that I can avoid removing the HCPU tub.

The plan/design is all drawn up (in my head)...just need some time.

I often travel alone - I currently have a Warn 9000 up front and front and rear diff locks, so adding a rear winch will just be the last piece of the puzzle.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew,

When you get to that point it might be worth making contact with these guys. Their trayback challenge truck has done the Malaysian Rainforest a coupke times and they sell the rear "graft on" winch mount. Too heavy to post, but they might help you with measurements and templates.

10 - Rear winch cradle (http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=14:10-rear-winch-cradle&Itemid=46)