Help - Wife wants a Patrol, I am heart struck on Defender

[GlennWA]

Yesterday My Wife and I did the car yards looking for a new 4x4 family car that will seat 7. Firstly we were not impressed by Toyota and they will definitely not get our business. At the end of the day we had test driven the defender 2012 2.2L and patrol 2011 3.0L TD ST.

We had not seriously considered the patrol previously but the salesman, although not entirely pushy, did his job well and put a fantastic deal on the table. The patrol is about on par in price with all the options we want, but the defender may go over this price when options are added based on RRP, but we have yet to sit down and talk business with LR whereas Nissan was trying to sell their car today.

I am in two minds. I enjoyed the test drive of the defender and my wife thinks its cute. I test drove the Nissan and it felt par on performance and noise with the defender. Fuel consumption seems alike. Defender, I think has a better 3rd row of seats. To be honest I can't fault the Nissan and I can pick out faults with the defender easily due to my previous research eg space between door and seats and fuel tank size. BUT I still like the Defender and the Patrol just didn't inspire me.

My wife has fallen in love with the patrol. Comfort, car like seating, roomy driving position although she acknowledges the mirrors are better in Defender. Big point with the wife is that we both have to reach over to the gear stick whereas the nissan's is in a more natural position.

She also wants me to note to you that she has put up with Utes and Panel Vans of my choice for the last 8 yrs and thinks she deserves a little more comfort!!! (ugh her words not mine)

How can I convince her that comfort in the Defender is not a bad as it seems and that around town and on the hwy travelling interstate the defender is not so bad....maybe. The character and cuteness alone doesn't outway the comfort and I need more to convince her.

Help please....anyone.....;)

[slug_burner]

Defender seats are known to be comfortable for all day driving. You will get out and feel ok whereas many other seats that feel comfortable on a short run will leave you crippled after a day in the seat as they are too soft and don't support where they should.

All that aside you're on a hiding to nothing as we all know that "a happy wife = a happy life"

[vnx205]

Defender seats are known to be comfortable for all day driving. You will get out and feel ok whereas many other seats that feel comfortable on a short run will leave you crippled after a day in the seat as they are too soft and don't support where they should.

All that aside you're on a hiding to nothing as we all know that "a happy wife = a happy life"

A lot of people have discovered that the seats in some other vehicles are designed to feel great when you sit in them for a short time, (about as long as you would sit in them in a showroom. :D)

A lot of people have found that you don't begin to appreciate how comfortable the Defender seats are until you have driven for several hours.

Tell her that other seats are designed for a short sit; Defender seats are designed for a long drive. :p

[KarlB]

... The patrol is about on par in price with all the options we want, but the defender may go over this price when options are added based on RRP, but we have yet to sit down and talk business with LR whereas Nissan was trying to sell their car today.

And what are the options Glenn?

[GlennWA]

The main complaint is that the seats are too close to the doors. I notice around a half inch gap. Is there a method to move the seats inboard a tad? A quick search of the forums hasn't turned up anything apart from the 'mud' rails for extra leg room which wasn't a concern at all. Thanks in advance

[MR LR]

Another consideration would be, what is it replacing, if you are gtting out of a P38 rangie into a deefer, it will be a bit of a reality shock. My uncles had a Patrol as his work car for many years, my antie has always used landrovers from th family business, and to her the patrol was horrible, too massive and uncomfortable, i'd hate to park one aswell, bad Jap visibility. just my 2 cents

Cheers Will

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Glenn

Tell those sales bods that you are seriously considering buying their product, but you would like to take a demo vehicle out for a run and then go somewhere that both your and your wife like.

Make your decisions at the end of the day after you have had a run in each vehicle, give your comparisons to the Salesperson as competition does work, a better deal could be also had.

The Patrol is more car like, with a reputation for having a bullet proof transmission and their down side is that spares cost more (IMHO).
The Defender is not quite as bling as a Patrol, but is a easier vehicle to do longer trips in, with more room for fitting out the inside with gear and when the time comes, the resale should be a lot better.
.

[GlennWA]

And what are the options Glenn?

Hello Karl the options I am considering are the tow pack, expedition roof rack, snorkel, sun hatch, bullbar and long range tanks. The last two I believe I will have to go to aftermarket sources.

[wrinklearthur]

The main complaint is that the seats are too close to the doors. I notice around a half inch gap. Is there a method to move the seats inboard a tad? A quick search of the forums hasn't turned up anything apart from the 'mud' rails for extra leg room which wasn't a concern at all. Thanks in advance

JC has done that to his latest Defender, give him a PM.

[Cakez.Hock]

What about a new disco. Personally I'd go the defender as the intercoolers on the patrols are know to burst and that the one thing that in not coved. At lest when LR says warranty it means warranty. Maybe talk to LR and see if you can get a deal if you tell them you like the new Patrol.

[GlennWA]

Another consideration would be, what is it replacing

Hello Will. We are going from an 1996 XH falcon bench seat ute, hardly the pinnacle of comfort and refinement; however we lived in the USA for the last two years where we had an older Fully Loaded V8 Ford Explorer Limited which was very nice.

[MR LR]

Hello Will. We are going from an 1996 XH falcon bench seat ute, hardly the pinnacle of comfort and refinement; however we lived in the USA for the last two years where we had an older Fully Loaded V8 Ford Explorer Limited which was very nice.
So i assume handling isn't your biggest concern LOL, personally i love Defenders, so i have a biased opinion, really the decision is up to you and the missus, you will probably like whatever you pick, both are very good vehicles, it's just that with a Patrol you look like every other person in a fourby on the road.

[The ho har's]

We do a lot of long distance touring. We have gone from a Disco1 ES, leather seats, cruise control, duel sun roofs etc to our Defender 130 and we find it just as comfortable on long trips as the disco, as the seating position and visabilty is terrific:)

As an aside, when we were in the N.T. the other year we were with a nearly new Patrol, after a couple of not too deep river crossings we opened our doors to let the floor dry and the patrol opened it's doors to find soggy carpet and wet toilet paper:(:angel:

Mrs hh:angel:

[oldyella 76]

Do as I do, buy her a buzz box and let her choose the car, you stay out of the decision. Then you can have the say on the landie.
Best of luck!
Lindsay.

[rick130]

We have one of each, albeit both are ten years old now (ok the Defer is older :angel:) and guess who drives which.

I'm not familiar with the new CRD Patrol engine, but the rest of the car is pretty much bullet proof.

Ours is about to clock over 400,000km and it's been used hard from new and still drives well. (coil cab ute)
The doors are long and drop a little, those that have had farm use often crack the mount's on the door frame, otherwise it's as tight as it was when SWMBO drove it out of the yard and has been dead reliable in that time, apart from two radiators (stray current)
The only things changed are normal service items.
It's still on it's original clutch too.

I wish i could say the same for the Defender.

I'm not sure if springs and damping has changed much since the first GU's, but the Defender runs rings around the Patrol for ride comfort, particularly off road.

Seats are no contest either, I get out of the Patrol and am stiff and cramping (and I practice yoga) yet I climb out of the Defender almost as fresh as when i started. (within reason)
I'm near as dammit 6'2" and 94kg and yes, the Defender is snug, but apart from the bloody noise (and apparently the new ones are much, much better) it's the nicer drive for me.

Unsurprisingly SWMBO sees it differently.

Either can be built to be a great touring vehicle and it's reasonably easy to overcome their respective shortcomings, (although the driveshaft issues with the current Defender when lifted are unforgivable IMO)
IME you'll be fiddling with the Defender a lot more than the Patrol.

[Marshall]

Unfortunately, once she has sat in a comfy new patrol, a defer doesn't stand much of a chance, too much like chalk and cheese. But for that sort of money, take a second hand range rover ('06ish) td6 for a spin. The patrol will fade into the past...

[PAT303]

I would not buy a Nissan simply because if you have the tinniest of problems Nissan will not help you.Do a search about Nissan,look on the Patrol and Navara forums and you'll find a heap of very ****ed off owners.Defenders might need a DC shaft when you lift them and a set of seat runners if your tall but thats nothing compared to what owners are forking out for both Toyota's and Nissans just to keep them running.Having had all three LR got my money. Pat

[scarry]

I have to agree with Rick130 here,but as Pat303 has said you will get NO help if you have a warranty problem.

My wifes sister & husband have had 3 since the first GU came out,never ever had an issue,not what i can say about the Disco's i have had over the same period of time.

Visibility over the bonnet in the patrol is definitely worse than the Deefer.

the last one they had was recently involved in a massive head on accident with a Patrol of the same vintage,'06.

Very luckily no one was badly injured,both Patrols & one was also towing a 22ft van,were written off.
The accident investigators said if it wasn't for the airbags,injuries would have been a lot worse to all involved.

The deefers lack of airbags could be an issue,but as we know every accident is different.

[B92 8NW]

I haven't driven a 2.2 Fender but have done a lot of miles in a 3.0 auto Patrol through work. Was expecting it to blow my nuts off after a 300Tdi auto but have to say I was quite disappointed, in so far as, put a brick on the accelerator and maybe by the time you're in the next shire it'll be doing 100.

Faultless car though and if I was in the market, I'd probably get one.

[PAT303]

They still blow up too by the way,a bloke at work traded his version four in for a Jeep. Pat

[rick130]

[snip]

Visibility over the bonnet in the patrol is definitely worse than the Deefer.

the last one they had was recently involved in a massive head on accident with a Patrol of the same vintage,'06.

[snip]

I forgot about that one Paul, ours hasn't done any four wheel driving for so long you do forget little things like that.

The Patrol bonnet makes placing the vehicle a bit of a suck it and see exercise off road.
We only used ours off road years ago back on the farm and only because I knew what was where could I safely drop off into creeks or over the edges of seeming cliffs.

The other thing that surprised me and caught me out was the better ramp over angle of the Defender vs the Patrol, and I have a 130 which isn't great compared to a 110.

When traversing contour drains, large earth contour banks all over the hillsides of the farm to direct and channel water, I'd regularly get hung up with the Patrol in spots I'd walk the Defender clean over.

We only ever had one warranty problem with the GU, the fuel transfer pump for the second tank failed, which Nissan replaced promptly (after three hours of diagnosis, which was after I'd already metered the pump and told their auto eleccy it was open circuit and cactus :rolleyes:)
It has been a fantastic vehicle, even better than her previous GQ which was also bought new.

Having said that, I'll be driving the Defender forever I reckon, even if we end up having to repower it with a hybrid or hydrogen engine.

[87County]

.......

My wife has fallen in love with the patrol. Comfort, car like seating, roomy driving position although she acknowledges the mirrors are better in Defender. Big point with the wife is that we both have to reach over to the gear stick whereas the nissan's is in a more natural position.

................

I would imagine that you have answered the problem in this para yourself... :angel:


.... have you posed the same questions on a patrol site ?? :)

[p38arover]

I went for a 200km trip in a GU Patrol 3.0 TD on Saturday. I was the rear seat passenger. Fortunately, we stopped often to take pics,

I'd have to say I'd I would absolutely hate to be a passenger in one on any sort of longish trip. With the front passenger seat forward to give me some legroom, the front passenger bashed his knees on the dash. With it back a bit I had to sit sideways to get room for my feet. Also there is no support under the thighs. All one gets is one's backside on the seat with one's knees in the air. I suspect the seats are designed for children.

I'm not tall, only 1.8m and only wear a size 10 shoe.

I was surprised how quickly it lost speed up hills. For those that know the Great Western Hwy at Emu Plains (Sydney), where I can be still powering up the 90km/h section at 110km/h in the P38A, the Patrol was down to 70 and slowing. My 300Tdi Disco used to do a lot better than that up the same hill.

Wait. I just remembered, the Patrol had bigger tyres so that would have altered the gearing.

Re front seating, my old County was quite comfortable on a trip - I could hop out after a few hundred km without a back problem - I can't on the Rangie. However, I could never get used to my arm being against the door frame. My arm would ache from the cold in winter.

[Ivan]

Are the Patrol still 2 wheel drive on the highway? The 2001 GU I had (2 wheel drive on tarmac) was absolutely rubbish in the wet (had brand new BFG All Terrain Tyres fitted). I lost the back end a few times when gently accelerating in the wet. Much prefer my Disco with constant 4WD.


Ivan

[p38arover]

Are the Patrol still 2 wheel drive on the highway?

Yes.

[rick130]

Are the Patrol still 2 wheel drive on the highway? The 2001 GU I had (2 wheel drive on tarmac) was absolutely rubbish in the wet (had brand new BFG All Terrain Tyres fitted). I lost the back end a few times when gently accelerating in the wet. Much prefer my Disco with constant 4WD.


Ivan

That's not rubbish, that's called fun :angel:

BTW, it's the same on dirt, the Deefer is much quicker/more sure footed on loose surfaces.
Part of that is due to the Patrol's excellent LSD in the rear which can provoke the back end, possibly the best factory fitted LSD in a 4WD.

[Ivan]

Rick

Totally agree fun :p but needs to be in the right place, not trying to pull away from a roundabout in two lanes of traffic.


Ivan

[wrinklearthur]

Compared with the Patrols two wheel drive, Defender's strongest safety point is that it's all wheel drive with it's inherent road holding capabilities. :angel:
.

[Tikirocker]

Do what we did ... we have a family car that Mrs Rocker drives 80% of the time - a Subaru Liberty RX AWD wagon - and I drive a County as my daily driver. If you really want a Landy between the two of you - you'll have to make your sales pitch better than the other blokes. :)

P.S My wife won't drive the County ... freaks her out.

Tiki.

[Ranga]

Just spoke to a mate who recently did an outback tour in his Land Cruiser and his FIL in a newish Patrol. The patrol did a fuel pump. Replacement cost was $4000 :eek:

Please tell me a Puma fuel pump isn't that much?!

[isuzurover]

....... the Patrol's excellent LSD in the rear ......... possibly the best factory fitted LSD in a 4WD.

Which is why most patrol owners fit a front locker and leave the rear LSD in place.

However they ALL claim the rear LSD doesn't work :D

[B92 8NW]

That's not rubbish, that's called fun :angel:

BTW, it's the same on dirt, the Deefer is much quicker/more sure footed on loose surfaces.
Part of that is due to the Patrol's excellent LSD in the rear which can provoke the back end, possibly the best factory fitted LSD in a 4WD.

Maybe the Patrol's LSD is too good, there's no way I can even get a chirp out of a 3.0 in dry weather.


Am I not trying hard enough?:angel:

[rick130]

Which is why most patrol owners fit a front locker and leave the rear LSD in place.

However they ALL claim the rear LSD doesn't work :D

Lets face it, when there's ego's involved, is anyone willing to admit something helps ? :D

[jasonedu]

Dont worry about the position of the seat being too close to the door. you will drive it a few times and not even notice it.

I found in other cars my right knee gets sore on long drives. with the defender I rest it on the door and the position is more natural. No problems with the seats - support in all the right places.

There was a Defender wave thread a while back - the consensus seemed to be a female Defender driver was a sexy thing. How can your missus argue with that?

[rick130]

Maybe the Patrol's LSD is too good, there's no way I can even get a chirp out of a 3.0 in dry weather.


Am I not trying hard enough?:angel:

I don't know Joel, ours is powered by the 4BD1T of the Nissan world, the TD42T :D

[Tikirocker]

Dont worry about the position of the seat being too close to the door. you will drive it a few times and not even notice it.



Agreed ... and it really is a superior position to other 4WD's for off-roading and indispensable when navigating tight spots in the bush - you can very easily lean your head out the door and look down and see where your tires are in relation to everything and still be able to drive comfortably. I prefer it actually and find the door a nice cosy object to lean my shoulder into, and I'm pretty broad shouldered.

Tiki.

[digger]

I sold my defender and bought a 3 litre (grenade motor) nissan patrol..

now I am up for $7,500 for a rebuild... :o :mad: at 174,000k !!!

DONT DO IT, stay with the deefer!!!

[2stroke]

After reading the 300 Tdi horror stories and with next year's Canning Stock Route trip in the back of the mind, with the 130's odometer currently at 247000, I began to consider an ex Telstra 4.2 turbo intercooled leaf rear end ute. Showed the wife one and she just laughed and said "but look how low it is, that wouldn't have gotten us into Glen Annie gorge!" Guess I'll just fix the Defender if required then.

[GlennWA]

Hello gentlemen...

Firstly Glenn left this thread open on my laptop - hmmm wonder why ;)

So I have had a quick read through and here is where I'm also concerned...

Love the look of the defender - truly do - I feel like I'm nice and up high whilst driving - i'm only 5ft3 so I have a bit of trouble with the distance with my legs touching the clutch all the way to the ground without pulling the seat far enough forward that I bang my knees on the dash... LOL...

Here is our story....

Glenn Loves the defender and previously in the past we have gotten every car he wanted...

we both started off with utes our first ever cars.. he had a Ford Falcon XH and I an older model XF - loved it and would try to take it anywhere it could go without breaking it!

Anyways we then moved to NT and we saw sitting in a salesyard an XH Outback which is a rarer model, long range fuel tanks etc etc totally fitted for the Aussie terrain...(as far as an XH ute can get fitted) He really really wanted it so... we got it...(We are currently driving this ute round now)

Then we travelled lots in it from esperance to Ayres rock to Pilbara - we spend alot of time in the pilbara and through the kimberleys but only go in the dry season of course..

Later on the year after we bought the outback he then spots a panel van XH - in the salesyard next to where we bought the ute... again he falls inlove so the next day I go to the saleyard pick it up and suprise him at work for a test drive..

as you can guess we buy it BUT we trade in my XF ute for it and his old XH ute(not the outback) to get his new toy... and fit it out with everything needed to travel we had a blast in the panelvan but a lady in a losercruiser ran into the back end of me and wrote it off the panelvan!!

So thats our past history regarding cars apart from the Ford Explorer in USA.

I really wanted the following..

- Full leather seats/more cushiony(?) seats that I could relax and have a comfy travel and fall asleep in whilst driving..
- A sunroof that goes all the way back and doesnt just pop out
-Room in the rear and to move around in whilst a baby chair is put in the middle of the 2nd row and nooks and cranny's everywhere to place goodies as I hate having bags around my feet! like door pockets and under seat space hidey holes etc..

Anyways i have the following concerns about the defender....as I've been thinking about this for ages.... I cant toss up between the both...

-Reliability - I have noticed that most people say that the defender needs a little work after you get it from the factory or you could be a lucky few that hasnt had issues at all.
-spare part costs
-servicing costs and availability - There seems to be more nissan dealers and patrols out there on the road than landrovers so how long will we be waiting if we get stuck somewhere with need for a new part.
-My arm on the door - I get really chilly on long drives so how is it with your arm against the thin door panel - how drafty are they?
- Leaks - is this just wading through water or with heavy rain too?? as we may be returning to darwin in a couple of years.
-I also have a really painful tailbone (from giving birth T.M.I I know and sorry) but it goes really numb if I sit too long on a hard seat not a cushiony chair. i'm worried I will get this as I get it sitting upright in a plane. and Landrovers reminds me of a plane lol and even the roof lining reminds me of the lining in the walls on the inside of a plane lol

If I think of anything else I will be sure to let you know but all of your help has been great...

and to the bloke who said get me a buzz box... - You GOT to be JOKING! I would smash one of them if I could...I may be female but I love the tuff look of the ute/truck/defer/4WD etc....

theres my...5cents lol!!

Kizzie

[PAT303]

Kizzie,I've been driving defenders all over Oz for 14 years and have never had problems getting parts,never had problems getting servicing and have never had a bad back.Not being able to get parts for Land Rovers is a myth past around by non Land Rover owners. Pat

[uninformed]

do yours leak Pat?

[tonyci]

Kizzie

On my second Defender (well actually first one was a county many moons ago).

I have taken mine to some rough remote spots with no drama.
My Defender does not leak, and my arm does not get cold in winter.
The seats look rubbish but as others have said are actually good on long trips.
Re spare parts never had an issue, but have had to wait several days for Toyota parts to arrive over the years.
The Defender certainly has character, if you buy one you also will become addicted to its quirks (in a positive way).
Tough choice, but I would go the defender.
Cheers.
Tony

[GlennWA]

Kizzie,I've been driving defenders all over Oz for 14 years and have never had problems getting parts,never had problems getting servicing and have never had a bad back.Not being able to get parts for Land Rovers is a myth past around by non Land Rover owners. Pat

Well that is a relief thanks Pat! A myth thats been busted from firsthand experience. :)

[GlennWA]

Kizzie

On my second Defender (well actually first one was a county many moons ago).

I have taken mine to some rough remote spots with no drama.
My Defender does not leak, and my arm does not get cold in winter.
The seats look rubbish but as others have said are actually good on long trips.
Re spare parts never had an issue, but have had to wait several days for Toyota parts to arrive over the years.
The Defender certainly has character, if you buy one you also will become addicted to its quirks (in a positive way).
Tough choice, but I would go the defender.
Cheers.
Tony

"quirks" lol - like how you put that - I think we have to take it for a longer test drive lol!!!

[p38arover]

Glenn Loves the defender and previously in the past we have gotten every car he wanted...



Some years ago, Kizzie, I made the mistake of telling my wife she couldn't have a car she had set her heart on (Toyota Celica). I rejected it 'cos it only had a driver's side airbag. I wanted an airbag for our daughter.

Once we got past the car we bought instead (Holden (Commodore) VT Berlina) she has selected her cars:

Ford Probe (quite nice to drive and plenty of room for a 2-door coupe)
2005 Subaru Forester
2009 Subaru Forester
2010 Subaru Turbo Forester (she wanted more power).

Did did recently tell me to buy a Defender 90 and that she would drive it, too.

[p38arover]

This Patrol could be worth looking at: Overlander 4WD :: View topic - 2009 Nissan Patrol GU Wagon - $45000. (http://forums.overlander.com.au/viewtopic.php't=73762&highlight=)

[GlennWA]

Some years ago, Kizzie, I made the mistake of telling my wife she couldn't have a car she had set her heart on.

Every NEW car her see's he has his heart set on... I would love to enjoy a little more comfort. and Aircon - like more air con than just the two little round vents what about rear passengers dont they get hot?

Also what about airbags I heard that the DEF doesnt come with ANY? Is that true?

That patrol looks lovely but for 5k more we get a new one pretty much same accessories bar a few extra's

The patrol we are looking at

2011 NEW
7 seats leather all leather (not partial)
sunroof
roof mounted DVD player
roof rails
snorkel
towpack
side runners
the dust disperser thingamabob on the rear window
black steel bullbar
heavy duty 4WD mats and a set of carpet ones
6yr/150,000k warranty

and I'm having mind blanks lol:angel:

plus... need to mention that the next two years the vehicle is mainly going to be me as the driver unless going on holidays in which case we share. But its going to be used as a daily driver.

Oh I also want to mention I have alot of trouble trying to get up into the defender as I'm too short LOL now how am I going to get a baby car seat in and out easily once heading to the shops on a local grocery run too??

Kiz
:)

[Ivan]

Oh I also want to mention I have alot of trouble trying to get up into the defender as I'm too short LOL now how am I going to get a baby car seat in and out easily once heading to the shops on a local grocery run too??


Definitely need a D4 or D3, drop it into access height and you will have no problems getting into it. :D

Ivan

[2stroke]

Well Kizzie you'll need to get yourself into a Defender and drive it for at least an hour or so, only you'll know if the seat is comfortable. There are questions about the reliability of both vehicles depending on whom you ask. Rover will be more economical but silly that they still have such a small tank.
My wife is only 5 ft and she drives mine okay.

[Mike_S]

I'd be heading to Melbourne Land Rover, having a chat & a coffee with the resident forumite (sniegy) and seeing about having the 110 they have on the forecourt for a few hours, see how you fare with it over a longer period of time. Just bear in mind it has MTR's on it which could add to the noise.

Having travelled in a Patrol as a passenger here and driven Defenders in the UK (but not here), I'd be putting my money into the Defender. And that's not just because I like Land Rovers, to be honest I'm only a recent convert. I'll agree with the comments here about the relative comfort of each, no way on this earth would opening the door of a Defender give you an impression of comfort, whereas the Patrol does and in both cases, each gave me the opposite experience. I can drive the Deefer for hours (used them at work on construction sites) and not be uncomfortable, whereas the Patrol had my bad back grumbling after only an hour, the seats just don't offer any support once you've been in them a while.

The Defender doesn't have all the creature comforts, I'll give you that, but on the whole it's not a bad package and from what I read, it'll be worth more in a few years than the equivalent Patrol (based on purchase prices). You might even find the recent Land Rover deals still on the table, just be serious that you're comparing the Defender to the Patrol and you're ready to put your money down. It's then up to the salesdude whether he's interested or not.

[PAT303]

do yours leak Pat?

I drove back from NSW during the recent flooding and no water got inside through the bodywork from the rain above or from the floodwater from underneath.In humid weather the A/C system gets covered in water and drips behind the dash but if put on fresh air it soon disappears.Saying all that yesterday my daughter pulled the rear door seal off using it as a handle but a bit of silastic fixed it good. Pat

[Natt]

I would steer away from the 3.0l patrols, a good 4.2l would be the go but are rare as hens teeth to find a good one, I did see an 06 Patrol wagon with all the fruit and a sweet 6.5l TD for sale @ 48k i think

[slug_burner]

Kizzie,

I was the one that said happy wife = happy life, I would let you get it out of your system and have your pick. I have been married long enough to know that if anything goes wrong I will be reminded that it was not my wife's choice.

A couple of things that you should be aware of;

leather seats not as comfy as you would believe, I don't have anything against them, my wife's car has them and all the other bits you mentioned except it is a sedan one of the Honda Euros (no 4x4 specific items bullbar etc). Leather is a little less compliant and therefore a little stiffer, you sit on the seat not in it. There could be other designs that are made with softer padding and softer leather that provide a different feel but I am not the first person to make this observation about leather in other car makes. Most comfy seat covering for me has been the sheep skin seat covers on my D2a.

Unless defenders have improved a lot in the sealing department I doubt that you will keep the water and dust out. Defender are meant to be hosed out so they can handle the water. Mine (a 300Tdi therefore getting on in years) does not leak from rain but if you wade above the door sill expect to get water in if in it long enough to have the bow wave collapse.


Some of the things you are looking for a probably outside of the utilitarian vehicle the defender is and more into the Disco or RR category. However there will be a price difference.

Good luck with your choice.

[justdrinkbeer]

I bought a Nissan Navara last year as we needed a dual cab and the mrs can't drive Manual.

Had my heart set on a Defender 130 (see, i'm still here on this forum!) but decided on the Navara on advice of the Mrs, what a mistake, every time I see a Defender on the road i'm envious, I wish i'd just told her to shut up and bought what I wanted.

On the topic of Nissan & Warrrenty claims, yeah i've been back a few times, terrible trying to get anything fixed up, and that goes for a few people i've spoken to.

And i'd guess the back of a defender would be bigger no?

[drzzt]

I just went through the same choice , but the other way around. I wanted a Patrol as I've had a GQ from new and love it, but ended up buying a Defender.

It's better fuel, felt more solid and the gearbox in the Patrol felt like it was made of tin. I did want a 4wd to go 4wding in though and wasn't really concerned with the comfort aspect of it. I also liked the size of the Defender, didn't feel as big as the patrol, but boy is it tall.

I've driven from Canberra to Melbourne a couple times and the Defender is good on the highway, lots of power on the hills which surprised me for the size of the engine and as others have stated it's really quite comfortable once you get used to the seating position.

Now the bad,
Mine leaks like a sieve in the rain, I just transported a bunch of boxes on the weekend for a buddy that's moving and all the boxes on the bottom were wet. It comes in under the rear wheels and also in the windows.
Rear guards, why didn't it come with them? It would've cut down on noise and random rocks scared the crap out of me at first.
I'll get warranty for the leaking and make something up for the guards.

Am I happy with my purchase? Yep, wouldn't change it for anything. It really grows on you on how it drives and I like rubber vs carpet for the interior.

[wrinklearthur]

Hi Drzzt

Welcome aboard to the forum.
I like your assessment of your Defender.
.

[uninformed]

........ felt more solid and the gearbox in the Patrol felt like it was made of tin.........

Sorry, but I got a good chuckle out of this :D

[PAT303]

Serg,Nissan doesn't have a good reputation with gearbox's,the 5 speed in the Navara is about as good as the ZD30. Pat

[rick130]

But the MQ, GQ and GU 'boxes are excellent and the GQ and Gu 'boxes are twice as strong as any Land Rover 'box prior to the MT82 Getrag (notwithstanding the bad batch of GU 'boxes that had mis-machined 5th gear splines in 2000)

[justdrinkbeer]

Pat- 7speed auto in my Navara STX550 and it is hands down the worst gearbox I've ever used!
Drove my dads freelanders over Xmas (1auto, 1manual) and was very impressed with the boxes, especially the auto.
I will have a defender 130 before they stop being built though (got a few years thank god)

[uninformed]

Serg,Nissan doesn't have a good reputation with gearbox's,the 5 speed in the Navara is about as good as the ZD30. Pat

Now now Pat, you are starting to sound (ie dont let the truth get in the way of a good story) like the non landrover guys that poo poo Landrovers. The guy I quoted referred to the PATROL box not the Nivara. The OP is talking about a PATROL not a Nivara....lets not loose sight of the thread or the facts....:D

[GlennWA]

Thanks for all of your input.

To bring a close to this thread we have made a decision, and the Defender has it :)

We ended up taking both vehicles for a few hours on a test drive side by side. There are some significant differences. When used as a shopping trolley the Patrol is obviously better suited; however, when used for travelling where not everything is clean and smooth and it isn't always practical to wipe your feet the Defender begins to look a little better suited...

Some key points for the Defender were:

Third row seating space for adults rather than just children;
Roominess inside the cabin and rear;
Natural light inside the cabin;
Off road capability straight out of the box;
Resale value (if ever required);
6 speed box;
Interior simplicity and ability to maintain considering kids and food, sand, mud and dogs;
Styling won't date (anymore!);
Shade over the steering wheel without the sloping windscreen which means less sunburnt hands for me;
Driving style on and off road that encourage a go easy, slow and relaxed approach (You are not fast, everyone knows it, and you have nothing to prove, so who cares!);
Ability to find it in a carpark among all the Prados and Patrols;
Perceived greater warranty coverage and dealer support;
Visibility through windows and mirrors; and
General character.


There are definitely areas where the Patrol is superior yet for our needs the defender seems to be a closer match.

I have many more questions now but I will save them for another post.

Thanks again

Glenn

[Loubrey]

Glenn,

Regardless of the actual vehicle, you've still got to deal with the company for at least the first 3 years of waranty. Our Perth based Southwest Division opted for Nissan to replace all the aging Toyota based on a long list of criteria. This is a decision they are now regretting in a very big way and the Northwest Divisions choice of Colorados are looking all the better.

Both the Patrols and Navarras have endless electrical issues, trim issues (panels in the cabs coming adrift with fixing pins breaking off) and a whole list of issues you shouldn't expect of a new vehicle. The problem being than Nissan wants nothing to do with it! According to them everything is either abuse or "outside the parameters of the vehicles intended use"...

I would personally stay well away from the brand, at least we know Land Rover will fix it if it breaks!

[rick130]

[snip]

Both the Patrols and Navarras have endless electrical issues, trim issues (panels in the cabs coming adrift with fixing pins breaking off) and a whole list of issues you shouldn't expect of a new vehicle. The problem being than Nissan wants nothing to do with it! According to them everything is either abuse or "outside the parameters of the vehicles intended use"...

I would personally stay well away from the brand, at least we know Land Rover will fix it if it breaks!

Wow, either Nissan have really dropped their game in the last ten years, or we just got a goodun.

[Sue]

Wow, either Nissan have really dropped their game in the last ten years, or we just got a goodun.

You got lucky.. real lucky..

We just got a car with lots of problems.. and no support.. :(

[jakeslouw]

I think Glenn made the right choice. And I'm not saying that as an LR owner, I owned Nissans before I bought a Landy.

The ZD30 still has a reputation for blowing up: it seems that it's not really the engine's fault, it's more a case of rubbish ECU logic and insufficient safety sensors like EGT probes and logic to handle overfuelling.

I'm on a Nissan 4x4 forum, and there are constantly Patrols needing warranty rebuilds on the 3.0TD.

The Ford Duro diesels are strong commercial units, that's more than can be said of the ZD30.

[rick130]

You got lucky.. real lucky..

We just got a car with lots of problems.. and no support.. :(

Only ever had one issue under warranty, the secondary fuel tank transfer pump, which Nissan replaced, and nothing, and I literally mean no other problems in 400,000km other than overheating, which a new radiator has fixed, (stray current killed the old one, the battery terminal was loose) which is a lot more than can be said for my Defender......

Of course it doesn't have the rubbish ZD30 engine either.

[landy]

GlennWA


Quote 'BUT I still like the Defender and the Patrol just didn't inspire me.'

I think you have answered your own question. I have owned both, although the patrol was a 1998 GU and my Defender is a 1999 MY so a bit older than you are looking at. The patrol was a "better car" but the Defender is a better 4wd if that makes sense. and for all its short falls i.e panel fit, cabin noise and water leaks I love my Defender and would never want to part with her. she is inspiring.

This Kerry posting - I won't drive the Defender, don't feel confident with the turning circle, and clutch very heavy. The Patrol was easier for me to drive as it was more 'car' like as opposed to 'truck' like. Patrol had comfier seats, better leg room for the passenger in the front, better temperature control internally, by this I mean heating/air con. Electric windows etc., better dashboard and glove box. If you have kids, the back seat (second row)in the Patrol is also more comfortable for them. Defender loses out on that too.

back to me- i need a new wife!

Buy the Defender.

Nino and Kerry

[Sue]

This Kerry posting - I won't drive the Defender, don't feel confident with the turning circle, and clutch very heavy. The Patrol was easier for me to drive as it was more 'car' like as opposed to 'truck' like. Patrol had comfier seats, better leg room for the passenger in the front, better temperature control internally, by this I mean heating/air con. Electric windows etc., better dashboard and glove box. If you have kids, the back seat (second row)in the Patrol is also more comfortable for them. Defender loses out on that too.


Nino and Kerry

Hey Kerry.. give it a go.. I was hesitant at first and a little worried - especially with the turning circle for parking etc but I adjusted in a couple of days and now just love driving my Defender.. no problems with parking and changing the gears etc I also prefer the caddy to the traditional glove box (it's amazing how much stuff you can fit in those things!) and my Defender has electric windows.. In fact I now hate driving my partners Nissan.. :)

Cheers
Sue