101 FC Door Bottoms

[stuee]

Trying to find things to do on the 101 and seeing as I am looking at the body work I thought I would turn my attention to the door bottoms which are looking pretty shabby. I know new ones can be purchased from the club but I thought I would have a crack at fixing the rust on these before I spend too much money. They are both structurally sound but the seal channel and part of the metal frame have rusted away. Currently the worst one looks like this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/884.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/885.jpg

The two options I see for repair this are as follows:
1. Do it properly, remove the aluminium skin, cut out and replace the rusted parts of the frame and weld new seal channel in, and replace aluminium panel. The issue with this is where would I find the channel that holds the seals in place and what would the state of the aluminium skin be after I've molested it.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/886.jpg

2. Do it dodgy. Get the stiff wire brush wheel and remove all the rust. Clean it up with rust converter and paint it thoroughly - like flood it with my left over KBS rustseal (this will get in between the aluminium and steel as it creeps). Bog up the opening in the box section, then drop it off to the media blasters to have the whole lot blasted and primed in two pack. Seal up the seams between the steel and aluminium with normal body sealant to stop water and grit ingress. Get the whole lot painted, and replace seals in channel where possible or glue some new ones on, either that or glue some channel with on sikaflex for easy replacement (possibly do this before painting). And the final step would be to flood the steel box section with cavity wax or the like to stop any future rusting.

With my concerns over number 1 I'm leaning towards option 2 (which I just thought of tonight :twisted:). Later down the track I could potentially order new door bottoms if need be when funds are not so tight or get them professionally repaired if the dodgy fix doesn't last.

What have others done to address the door bottoms rusting out? I gather it is a common problem on the 101, that and the door tops, but thankfully, my door tops don't look too bad.

edit** rather than bog up the whole bottom there's no reason I cant weld a new plate over the bottom in situ to give the frame some added strength.

[The ho har's]

go with option 2 but try to fold sheet and mig over rust holes with skin in
place then if it all turns to **** buy new ones :D



HO HAR

[101 Ron]

Try and find some old series landrover doors.
The series rover doors are a different size and shape, but the steel channel and construction is the same and you may be able to weld in new bits from the series doors.
AJ could have some spare doors , but I expect it would be at a price.
option 2 is the best bang for your dollar.

[juddy]

You can still get the channel in the uk.

[stuee]

You can still get the channel in the uk.

Any idea on who from in particular?

Cheers

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk

[101 Ron]

the 101 club has new alloy door tops advailable.
series land rover glass slide channel fits with some work.
Bannisters is a good place to get exarmy parts in UK......but the locals think its a rip off.

[stuee]

the 101 club has new alloy door tops advailable.
series land rover glass slide channel fits with some work.
Bannisters is a good place to get exarmy parts in UK......but the locals think its a rip off.

Sorry, not chasing the window channel, but the seal channel that retains the door seal (the bit that's all but gone along the bottom and is being eaten away up the sides in the pics above).

Haven't inspected my actual window channels in the door tops yet, but if need be I have a good friend with access to a machine shop so I can probably get some nylon ones made up.

Cheers,
Stuart

[isuzutoo-eh]

Any idea on who from in particular?

Cheers



There's a few on ebay, both Series and Defender. One of the Defender channels has built in drains.

LAND ROVER SERIES 2 & 3 DOOR FRAME REPAIR SECTION - DA4086 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-SERIES-2-3-DOOR-FRAME-REPAIR-SECTION-DA4086-/260892899641?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cbe6db939)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Land-Rover-Series-2A-3-Front-Door-Frame-Repair-Channel-/370515413686?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5644708ab6

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280754982167'ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[chazza]

Door skins are easy to get off without damaging them.

1. Lay the door skin side down on an old blanket.
2. Gently drive a sharpish wedge under the end of one of the folded over sides of the skin.
3. Once the aluminium starts to lift continue along the edge lifting the fold slowly and in stages. I made a hook shaped tool out of an old screwdriver blade to do this.
4. On a steel skin they are often brazed in a couple of points, but on an aluminium one they probably only rely on the folded edges to hold them to the door frame, but it will become obvious as you work where to free next.

Once the skin is off you can examine the frame and decide what to do next. Anyone with a decent sheet metal folder should be able to make some lengths of frame, which you can cut to length to suit the repairs.

If it was my door I would put the frame in molasses to get all the rust off, if it looks saveable.

Cheers Charlie

[stuee]

Copied from my post in my build thread - should have gone here to begin with.

In the mean time I have found this:
Guide to Defender Door Repair | Repair My Landrover (http://www.repairmylandrover.co.uk/defender-repairguides/guide-to-defender-door-repair-internal-frame)

via this post on the forum:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/136381-rust-doors.html

Also now found a source for the seal channel I was chasing:
051 Range Rover Classic Door Gasket Holder (http://www.yrm-metal-solutions.co.uk/051-range-rover-classic-door-gasket-holder-174-p.asp)

Feeling much more confident in attacking the problem properly now after seeing some pictures too. Doesn't look hard at all to do.

[stuee]

Bringing this thread back from the dead as I'm getting serious with the doors now. I've pulled one skin off and had a much closer look at its construction.

The skins must go on unpainted which probably doesn't help things when paint starts rubbing off the metal frame.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1220.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1221.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1222.jpg

Glue or sealant on metal frame.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1223.jpg

Drainage hole on wrong side of frame. Just helps guide water into a trap between the aluminium skin and metal frame. I doubt it was intended to actually be there.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1224.jpg

Resultant crap build up.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1225.jpg

Worst of the rust damage, and this is the good door!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1226.jpg

If it had been used much longer the whole bottom of the door would need replacing.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1227.jpg

Unfortunately the lower section that is rusted out does not match the profile of the defender or series sections. It has a longer bottom sheet which can be seen in the following pics. The whole lower edge of the 101 door bottom is like this.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1228.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1229.jpg
http://www.yrmlandrover.com/WebRoot/BT4/Shops/BT3575/4F88/6153/A717/3D30/5E4F/0A0C/05EA/B17E/yrm_01520.png



I'm now thinking of cutting out the rusted sections and getting some strips of steel and welding them in instead for the rusted sections. I can get the seal holder from YRM and also I'll get some of the stainless steel fixings for the door locks to make postage worthwhile.

What do people think of galvanising the door frame? Is there potential to warp the whole thing or does it look like it should hold its shape? Once its repaired, galvanizing it would pretty much mean its sorted for life. Failing that I will most likely paint it with one of the polyurethane paints so it lasts. I'm also going to have the skin painted before re-fitting it as when it goes in to get the tray painted they can touch up the edges if needs be.

[stuee]

Just thinking over lunch that galvanising the frame would probably clog up the seal channels rendering them useless :(

[Sitec]

Hi Stuee..
Mine are the same, and I was going to make a batch of door section up... Just not quite yet. I made a whole load up of 4' lengths in the UK for my last 101, and also made a set of second row doors up when I was planning to make a 4 door 101 (but that's another story)... If you were to go into any sheet metalwork shop, they'd crop some pieces in flat zinc plated 1.5 or 2.0mm and fold up the profile you require easily.. It wouldn't cost a great deal either as pieces that width are usually in abundance behind the guillo! You can then drill 8 mm holes just in from the edge of the flat section and mig spot weld them to the folded section every 150mm and then cut your newly made section into the lengths you need.... :) I will be making more over here, but it won't be for several months, or at least until after the Mighty Melrose Meet!

[stuee]

Its only a very short section that's rusted out badly so happy to just cut that out and weld a new section in. Might not be as neat but thats what grinders and flap discs are for :D Only challenge I have is trying to weld it in with an arc welder :o

[Brute]

Its only a very short section that's rusted out badly so happy to just cut that out and weld a new section in. Might not be as neat but thats what grinders and flap discs are for :D Only challenge I have is trying to weld it in with an arc welder :o

If you want it welding stu give me a call I have plenty of experience of welding rusty Landy bits and a mig and tig welder

[101RRS]

Stuee - when you get to reskinning how are you intending to do the little roll in the metal around the cutout where the door handle is and what sort of rivets you going to use - just pop rivets or the correct domed rivets.

Garry

[stuee]

If you want it welding stu give me a call I have plenty of experience of welding rusty Landy bits and a mig and tig welder

Champion. When I get the bits from the UK I will give you a shout and get some beer. Was thinking it would be tricky to spot weld the seal channels on with an arc welder!! I may have a crack at welding the new plate sections in place though, need to try and justify buying the arc welder in the first place...

Pulled a few more bits off tonight to better understand what needs to be done. More rust traps behind the seal channels. I'll try and avoid this by using the polyurethane paint to seal between the channel and the frame. Having used the Rust Seal on the chassis and other parts it is quite good at creeping into spaces. The only thing I'll do different this time round is give it a top coat of the BlackTop top coat stuff so that it doesn't fade like the chassis did. The bumper and outriggers I did with TopCoat are still looking good now.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1202.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1203.jpg

Also took a measurement of how far apart the spot welds are for re-assembly.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/02/1204.jpg

Tomorrow I'll cut the rusted seal channels off and the bad rust out of the frame, then hit it with a coarse wire brush wheel to clean it up. When its repaired I'm going to leave some proper drain holes in it as well as some dedicated holes up the top for flooding the frame with cavity wax or fish oil.

Also have to look at how to clean the paint from under the top section of the frame as its not easily accessible with a wire brush wheel. If its too hard I'll wait till the repairs are done then drop it off for sandblasting.

[Brute]

Hi stu,
If you are going to get it sandblasted, better to do it before repairing as it will find lots of rust holes that you didn't know we're there:D
And it makes it much easier to weld

[stuee]

Stuee - when you get to reskinning how are you intending to do the little roll in the metal around the cutout where the door handle is and what sort of rivets you going to use - just pop rivets or the correct domed rivets.

Garry

Sorry Garry I missed this post. I'm going to use the original door skins as only the lower edge is showing signs of bad corrosion so will mean the roll around the handle is already there for me. Although it does have a little crack in around the roll, its not that noticeable.

I'd like to use the correct dome rivets but I've not used them before and don't have the tools. Normal pop-rivets would be so much easier but probably wont look as nice.

[stuee]

Not much progress but now with my own sand blaster I don't need to get the frames dropped off to clean the bits I cant reach with the wire wheel :D

Repairs started on the lower section
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/84.jpg

I started using the arc welder, not very pretty but its good practise and the frame is just as strong.

I also pulled the door tops apart to see the state of those. They are rusted quite a bit on each of the sides but still structurally sound, I'll just end up with some larger than normal drain holes at the base of the door tops ;) Had they been left unattended in the weather for a few more years though they would be shot.

By pulling them apart I also figured out what needs to be replaced, only the felt lined channels which I will be purchasing through John Cradocks.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/85.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/86.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/03/87.jpg

With a sand tilt on the way I'm in two minds as to what colour to paint the door tops. I can get them painted sand colour like the body or go black (like the other bits of trim). The windscreen frame will probably be black but even that one is up for debate too. I welcome any thoughts or suggestions.

[DasLandRoverMan]

Sand coloured 101's don't really need the colour breaking up like some of the louder ones. I'd paint them to match the body.

[Sitec]

Sand coloured 101's don't really need the colour breaking up like some of the louder ones. I'd paint them to match the body.

Agreed x2, but if you do decide to go with the black, use satin black and a good primer that you've flatted down.. You will get that powder coated black finish which is more subtle. :)

[stuee]

Made some good progress on the door bottoms this weekend even with a call out to work on Sunday morning.

Saturday I got all the paint and rust off the door using the combination of a abrasive pad on the grinder then the sand blaster. Sunday I got two coats of rust seal on and the first coat of satin black enamel. While picking up the silver rust seal was a mistake (I meant to get black) it actually made it very easy to see that I had everything painted when first applied, and again when I painted the black over the rust seal.

I didn't get any pics prior to paint but the pictures following the application of rust seal:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1060.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1061.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1062.jpg

How I had the door frame held up while painting:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1063.jpg

Finally a picture of the frame in the dark with the first coat of black:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/1064.jpg

Over the week, I'll sikaflex on the seal channels that had to be cut off and give it another coat or two of satin black rust guard. It should be pretty impervious to rust now, especially when its treated with fishoil on reassembly.

[stuee]

I've sikaflexed the door seals on and given the frame the final coats of paint. Once its sat in the sun a day or two more I'll move it inside until I get the skins painted.

I predrilled some small holes and used self tappers to hold the side channel in place:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/833.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/834.jpg

Some cheapo clamps held the lower channels in place quite easily.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/835.jpg

And the final coats of paint applied:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/836.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/837.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/838.jpg

[spongie]

Dunno if any of you lovely folks are interested but im no longer wanting my 101 club doors so will be another set spare from them.

I picked up a nice second hand set with rocky mountain tops. Cant wait to paint em up orange

[Mick_Marsh]

Dunno if any of you lovely folks are interested but im no longer wanting my 101 club doors so will be another set spare from them.

I picked up a nice second hand set with rocky mountain tops. Cant wait to paint em up orange
When are those door bottoms ever going to get made? It seems like years.

[bed_bug]

Was it a coincidence that the day after the club members received theirs Craddock's starts to sell them on Ebay.

Steve

[Mick_Marsh]

Was it a coincidence that the day after the club members received theirs Craddock's starts to sell them on Ebay.

Steve
Haven't got mine yet.
But that is for another forum.

[Homestar]

Haven't got mine yet.
But that is for another forum.

I don't know why you persevere Mick... You have infinately more patience than I have/did...

[Mick_Marsh]

Steve told me he was going to fix it all.
I'm told he's brought back the magazine after a notable absence.
I'm still hoping to get the parts I have bought two or three years ago. I'm sure it will happen.

[bed_bug]

Mick

People close to steve say that Steve is saying sorry for the let down.

They also say; the mag coming back was down to scott and Huws hard work, who should be credited. That the editor Huw has now resigned the editors post, so that's probably that again. As my rights to the club section have mysteriously stopped working you may know more than me.

What were the parts you ordered. Can I make a local call for you?

Steve

The parts I only ever bought one through the club so I can't comment on that.

[Sitec]

Those does on Ebay UK are starting to generate interest! It'll be interesting to see how much they go for, and how much Craddocks have them listed at on their site. What was the club charging for them?

[bed_bug]

No eye dear. Spongie might ? I had a pair that I'm getting back. The lower frames had been remade and then a thick Ally skin bolted on using countersunk hex bolts and riv nuts. If the lower frame repair sections were made up, that could be a mod that solves the door thing once and for all. Seal strip was 3m stuck onto the door plate. All worked very well and the thicker door was quieter. I'm getting them back to look at what could be done and document it. Door skins were thick enough to weld Ally speaker housings on. Sorry off topic a bit !

[Mick_Marsh]

No eye dear. Spongie might ? I had a pair that I'm getting back. The lower frames had been remade and then a thick Ally skin bolted on using countersunk hex bolts and riv nuts. If the lower frame repair sections were made up, that could be a mod that solves the door thing once and for all. Seal strip was 3m stuck onto the door plate. All worked very well and the thicker door was quieter. I'm getting them back to look at what could be done and document it. Door skins were thick enough to weld Ally speaker housings on. Sorry off topic a bit !
Your on topic, Steve. The opic is 101 door bottoms.
Oh, and another one of the forum rules, "Didn't happen without pictures."

[Sitec]

Here's the doors as they stand on Fleabay.. Both doors are currently at the same price.. I might have to pull finger and make some! I have a pair of second row 101 doors that I made years ago.... But that's another story! :)

[DasLandRoverMan]

We definitely need to see pictures of those.

[bed_bug]

I'm on the 101 Facebook group also. We know that Craddocks have more stock and that they are not the same as the club doors. Someone on Facebook is now attempting to make door tops too. Why is it the bottoms don't have galv'ed framework ? Steve

[stuee]

Did the last major job on the door bottoms today - re-attached the skins to the frames. Didn't go nearly as well as I'd hoped but at least it looks better than it used to.

Repaired door skin showing fibreglass bog. Its rough on the inside but the outside is like new because of it. It did cause grief when trying to fold over the lower edges tough.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/42.jpg

Some sikaflex automotive sealant around the edges of the frame to lock the skin in place and stop any vibrations/rubbing etc.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/43.jpg

Frame in palce:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/44.jpg

Now for where it went bad - folding the edges over. I tried numerous methods, all resulted in the paint cracking and coming off. Should of expected it really, paint isn't made to stretch that much. I got the skins painted in one hit but I should have got the inside skin painted, assembled the door frame and skin and got the outside skin painted to finish off. I'll use touch up paint to cover the exposed edges but when the tray goes in for painting I may get them to rub the edges down and repaint them.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/45.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/46.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/47.jpg

And where the aluminium skin has corroded a bit it was very prone to cracking:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/48.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/49.jpg

Wasn't that pleased with them overall but Ill see how they look after brushing on some touch up paint. Its mainly where the paint has come off on the edge or on the outside as this is what will be seen every time I get in and out of the 101. If you stand back a meter or two they look fantastic, just miffed that this much paint came off when the skins were folded over.

[stuee]

Forgot the full view shots. The bolts were put in to hold the door together while the edges were folded over.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/35.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/36.jpg

And the newly painted caps, and some new seals:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/06/37.jpg