ZF 6HP26 Maintenance

[unseenone]

This was not written in response to an inquiry by me, but from a Jaguar owner. Those vehicles weigh considerably less, and live a considerably easier life than DIII's. I hope this information leads to more maintenance to prevent premature transmission problems, as well as an increased awareness in the importance of maintenance.

May 31, 2011

Thank you for contacting ZF Service North America in regards to your 2005 Jaguar (http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/#). Oil service questions are by far the most common inquiry received since the start of our life time oil fill. ZF fluid if of very high quality and capable of life time service in most applications. To address this I have attached a letter written to our distributers regarding oil service. I believe this will address your questions but feel free to respond if something is left unanswered.

If I'm correct the noise you are referring to occurred during the 3-4 / 4-3 shift and was due to the clutch plates humming during apply. Your dealer drained 1 liter of fluid and replaced it with a liter of fluid containing additives to eliminate the noise. This was due to clutch plates humming during apply and was not a wear concern.

The bump from behind at stops may be due to normal internal wear combined with programming not accounting for this wear. I recommend contacting your Jaguar dealer to see if any updates are available to address this. While some independent service centers claim they have the ability to update software only your Jaguar dealer has access to factory support as well as ZF support where all problems are researched. If a fix is available the dealer will make this recommendation. If a more serious problem exists your dealer will be able to diagnose this as well.

April 26th 2011

ZF Automatic Passengercar (http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/#) parts distributers

Dear Distributor:

It has come to our attention there is confusion in the field regarding service intervals and fluid recommendations for ZF 5HP and 6HP applications.

ZF has promoted lifetime service for many 5HP and 6HP factory filled transmissions. Lifetime is not clearly defined and each OEM manufacture has there own philosophy. ZF stands behind lifetime recommendation where listed in the vehicle (http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/#) operator’s manual. ZF engineered and tested our fluids to retain its characteristics through normal lifetime operating conditions. However, a spirited driving style, special environmental considerations and other individual driving factors may place higher than normal loads on transmission fluids. To assure proper operation it is advisable to perform a drain and fill at 100,000km/62,000 miles or eight years.

Due to the complexity of operation, high output of current engine offerings and the expectation drivers place on their ZF equipped vehicles (http://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/#) ZF only endorses the use of ZF Lifeguard Fluids and parts or OEM approved fluids and parts. Fluids and parts not approved for use by ZF or the original equipment manufacturers have not been tested and may not meet the required demands. Use of these fluids or parts will void factory warranties and warranties placed on aftermarket transmissions remanufactured by ZF. The use of any fluid additives is prohibited as the result will unpredictably change fluid properties potentially resulting in transmission failure.

Some fluids previously recommended were factory fill or available only in the European market. To simplify obtaining the correct recommended fluids ZF now offers Lifguardfluid5, Lifeguardfluid6 and Lifeguardfluid8.

Finally there are some customers that feel the need to perform a transmission oil service as part of their regular maintenance. Changing the fluid more often is entirely their decision. Properly performed oil service will not damage the transmission. Most problems occur due to improper refill procedures, incorrect fluid and or non OE parts or with transmissions that already have a drivability problem. Use of ZF or OE parts and fluid is strongly recommended for best results,

[SBD4]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members/sbd4-albums-miscellaneous-picture4061-auto-transmission-fluid-d4-new-fluid-left-used-fluid-right-after-65k-km.jpg

No, this is not a urine test gone wrong! :D

I took the D4 in for a service at Graeme Cooper Automotive and asked to have the transmission fluid changed. He pulled these samples out to show me the condition of the fluid he had collected from another vehicle. The sample on the right shows the condition of the oil after 65K km and, of course, new fluid is on the left. Stuart said the sample he got was not the dirtiest as he didn't get the initial oil that flowed out as he was not prepared with containers on hand.

If any one is in any doubt as to whether or not they should have this service performed then, hopefully, this will help you to make up your mind.

By the way, GCA recommend changing the fluid every 50K km.

[Grumbles]

Brilliant. Thanks for posting.

I have often pondered this 'lifetime' stuff and what it means for the 'ordinary' driver of vehicles using these sealed systems.

I tended to agree that the claims from car dealers and oil companies of the oils/fluids actually lasting the lifetime distance were true but that it is the contaminants derived from internal mechanical wear which causes the expensive failures.

[101RRS]

I have often pondered this 'lifetime' stuff and what it means for the 'ordinary' driver of vehicles using these sealed systems.

While the oil change interval is a long time - it has never been claimed it is sealed for life - is an urban myth.

In normal use the Landrover service interval is 240,000km/10 years and when used for towing or offroad use - much less. Now this is still way too long but it not sealed for life.

ZF, the gearbox maker claim 90,000km in normal use and half that for arduous use.

On changing the oil - the gearbox temp need to be between 35 and 50 degrees. When putting the new oil in, how are people heating it to get it at the required temp - in the missus' oven to heat it up??

Obviously if outside temp is above 35 then not an issue.

Garry

[Glynhouse]

I changed my pan and oil at 96000 1st time, the oil that came out was no different to that that went in appearance wise, both honey brown.
The vehicle lived in the mountains behind Brisbane and towed a 2 horse float every other weekend, I understand not very far 20 odd klms from home and back.
The transmission is definitely not as smooth as before and changes differently, used oil supplied by ZF.

Interestingly the top auto shop here warned me not to change the oil until they had taken a sample and had it tested, most did not need a change this side off 240000, but they always tested the oil first. Most problems start after an oil change.
L/R dealer and the specialist LR shop up here both said change it at 100000 if towing.
Personally I would not change it if I had the choice again but would get it tested and be guided by that.

DD

[Rich84]

Glynhouse - I did my own oil change - basically a small amount more went in than what came out. I used the Ford ZF fluid which was cheaper than getting it through LR. It's the same stuff. I noticed the shifts were smoother, some of the TCC lockup shudder has gone. I also noticed though that on the whole, the box seems a tad noisier. I notice the TC turbine seems noisier too. I also notice a small amount of vibration at idle, but I'm bit OCD with my cars so I'm not sure how much is down to just paranoia.

It's interesting that your tech said that many problems start after an oil change. I'd be interested to hear what he has to say about it.

My fluid was quite dark. Not black, but much darker than the new fluid. Compare the photos above.

[SBD4]

An update on my service today....

Stuart at GCA said that the fluid in mine did not need changing having checked its condition. My D4 has now done 80K km.

[Fatso]

Bought my 2007 RRS last may with 128000k on the clock & not sure if it did any towing or not , after reading so many posts re ZF trans i decided to service the trans for peace of mind so fitted metal pan etc and a full flush oil change , the trans runs just the same now as it did before with no problems other than a growl noise at approx 80kmh on excelerating up which was there originaly . The oil that came out was just a shade darker than the new sample above and the filter was relatively clean , if i had my time over i would not have worried with the oil change etc . What i should have done was drain a sample out to check it ( oh for a dipstick ) :confused: if clean carry on if black change it ,also would not worry about the metal pan either . Just my thoughts, Al.

[Ean Austral]

While the oil change interval is a long time - it has never been claimed it is sealed for life - is an urban myth.

In normal use the Landrover service interval is 240,000km/10 years and when used for towing or offroad use - much less. Now this is still way too long but it not sealed for life.

ZF, the gearbox maker claim 90,000km in normal use and half that for arduous use.

On changing the oil - the gearbox temp need to be between 35 and 50 degrees. When putting the new oil in, how are people heating it to get it at the required temp - in the missus' oven to heat it up??

Obviously if outside temp is above 35 then not an issue.

Garry

Gday Garry,

Interesting, as the way I read the oil top-up proceedure was to fill the sump till it just started to come out the fill plug , then start the car select each gear, and using a reader of some sort let the oil heat up to a temp between 35-50 degrees. Then top up until the oil just trickles out the fill plug. Not have the oil at that temp prior to putting into the gearbox.

Mine was as black as :eek: at 79,000ks(from memory) and I changed it again 1000ks later (still very dark) then 1000ks later again ( was close to the original new oil colour )
I have enough oil to do a final change, and will likely order another filter, and do the filter and oil next time, then just check it 50,000ks later (if I still have the car)

Cheers Ean

[101RRS]

Interesting, as the way I read the oil top-up proceedure was to fill the sump till it just started to come out the fill plug , then start the car select each gear, and using a reader of some sort let the oil heat up to a temp between 35-50 degrees. Then top up until the oil just trickles out the fill plug. Not have the oil at that temp prior to putting into the gearbox.



That will certainly work - I thought it was to get the temp in the box up above 35 and in the meantime head up the oil you are going to put in above 35 then drain the box and then top up with the warm oil until it just trickles out.

How much oil comes out with a basic change?? Buying a 20 litre drum seems to be the most cost effective way to buy the oil - works out a bit less than $30 a litre.

Garry

[Ean Austral]

That will certainly work - I thought it was to get the temp in the box up above 35 and in the meantime head up the oil you are going to put in above 35 then drain the box and then top up with the warm oil until it just trickles out.

How much oil comes out with a basic change?? Buying a 20 litre drum seems to be the most cost effective way to buy the oil - works out a bit less than $30 a litre.

Garry

From memory Garry about 5ltrs maximum, I baught 20ltrs with the pan & filter and still have about 4-5ltrs left after 3 changes. The problem is there is proberly another 3-4 ltrs still in the system, so if you can n ot do a megaflush the you just have to change it a couple of times, or pull one of the lines off and drain some and keep topping up. I wasnt interested in that method.

If I had my time again, I would only do the sump and pan change if your oil was black, if not I would just drop the oil and re-fill it.

Mine needed a good flush, so am happy I did the pan & filter, but personally I didnt feel much difference in the tranny, but really think it was the correct time to change it.

Cheers Ean

[101RRS]

I am going to do a basic change at 72,000, 84,000km to just freshen up the oil. I will do a steel sump change and mega flush at 96,000km.

Thanks for the information.

Cheers

Garry

[smwilk]

I did mine at 96000 and have to agree that it has not been as smooth since with a few rough changes now evident until it gets warm.

[austeve01]

Hi Glynhouse,
Any chance of sending me a pm re details of your auto shop. They sound like they know their stuff.
Regards

[PerthDisco]

Did mine at 89k at specialist tranny shop. No problems before and no difference after.

[101RRS]

A auto does not have a traditional manual fly wheel. It has a traditional starter ring gear and has a piece of tinplate normally rivetted to the ring gear that is bolted the the rear crankshaft flange at the back of the engine. The Torque Converter is bolted to this piece of tinplate and the weight of the entire assembly acts the same as a flywheel. This piece of tinplate is called the flex plate because of its thin nature it can flex a little absorbing a few of the stresses in the system.

Garry

[Graeme]

Most unlikely the cause for such a young vehicle.

[Steve223]

Hi Guy's,

I did a transmission oil change around 10,000 k's go with Peter Davis and the oil which came out looked as the one which went in.

However he did not change the filter or pan is that required?

Does anyone have an idea where to purchase the metal pan?

Thanks a lot

Steve

[101RRS]

Hi Guy's,

I did a transmission oil change around 10,000 k's go with Peter Davis and the oil which came out looked as the one which went in.

However he did not change the filter or pan is that required?

Does anyone have an idea where to purchase the metal pan?

Thanks a lot

Steve

ZF Aust in Sydney - the full kit is about $280.

ZF Friedrichshafen AG | Australia (http://www.zf.com/corporate/en/company/locations_worldwide/asia_pacific/australia/locations_au/sites.jsp)

[Steve223]

Thanks bought two kits

[101RRS]

Thanks bought two kits

Why? Do you have two cars??

[SBD4]

Why? Do you have two cars??

Loves the D3 so much he bought another :thumbsup::
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/167675-just-bought-second-d3.html

[101RRS]

Loves the D3 so much he bought another :thumbsup::


He needs to update his signature then ;)

[Steve223]

Why? Do you have two cars??

Yes bought a road version without pin stripes :-)

[JamesH]

Having two Discos saves the stuffing around with changing rims around for offroad holidays.

[Steve223]

Having two Discos saves the stuffing around with changing rims around for offroad holidays.

yes planing to put some ST/Maxx on the bush car and just put some HT+ on the road car.

I saying that so far I went with my AT3's everywhere everyone else went (even with big muddies on) and did not have a problem getting there....

but I guess in real deep mud it will makes a difference

[gghaggis]

STMax is still an AT, and in most situations the AT3 would probably keep up. Now you have a bush car, time to start thinking about a set of MTZ's :twisted:

Cheers,

Gordon

[Graeme]

I ordered the sump kit and a drum of oil today. At 90K kms the oil was visually inspected and considered as new but with over 100K now I'll probably just drain and refill then at 150K replace the sump and filter, maybe even draining the torque converter and cooler at the same time. My gbox gets an easy life but so did the manual box in my D2 that had its synthetic oil changed every 80K yet this box has clutch packs and valve blocks as well as gears.

[Steve223]

I just had to Davis Performance doing the pan conversion and it turned out that I luckily I already had then stronger oil pump cover so that saved me $800.

I could also not resist getting "shiney" remapped and what a difference it made :-)

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Hi

Just doing a bit of research on the transmission oil change. My 2010 3.0TDV6 D4 has just clicked over 90k kms, and is coming up for a service. I've almost decided (as in, I have) to get the transmission oil changed, and the steel plate kit etc...
I had a quick look at the ZF website (typically German, very accurate, yet really hard to navigate), and think I found the right part number (8700 252).
So, my question is - why doesn't this kit include a filter, whereas all the other replacement kits contain a new filter...???

Thanks.
Rob

[jonesy63]

The plastic (original-style) pan has an integral filter.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

I assumed that was the steel pan kit... Obviously, it's just the plastic replacement kit...

[101RRS]

The complete ZF steel pan kit (everything included) costs about $280 + shipping from ZF themselves (Sydney).

Garry

[rodx]

Just got my D3 done again at 206000km, this time with steel sump conversion and genuine ZF fluid.. all up cost $500 at a transmission place in Sydney.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[SBD4]

Just got my D3 done again at 206000km, this time with steel sump conversion and genuine ZF fluid.. all up cost $500 at a transmission place in Sydney.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Good price - Who did you use?

[rodx]

Good price - Who did you use?

Got it done at DS Jones automatics at Seven Hills in western sydney.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[101RRS]

At that price I suspect they have not done a full oil change and only replaced the oil lost doing the sump change. A full ATF change will use 10litres and a basic change 3.5 litres and with fluid retail cost $60-$90 a litre (cheaper if bought in bulk) so the price seems a bit light on as the cost of the pan is just under $300 at best plus fitting costs.

Garry

[rodx]

At that price I suspect they have not done a full oil change and only replaced the oil lost doing the sump change. A full ATF change will use 10litres and a basic change 3.5 litres and with fluid retail cost $60-$90 a litre (cheaper if bought in bulk) so the price seems a bit light on as the cost of the pan is just under $300 at best plus fitting costs.

Garry

Cheers Gary, but I have an itemised invoice that states:
6HP 26 FILTER $45
PAN GASKET $35
Genuine ZF OIL $25 x 10 = $250
Steel sump $100
Labour $70
Incl. 10% gst

They've been in business 25 years and seemed to have plenty of business, including many euro cars.
I did also speak to the owner specifically about using non genuine fluid vs genuine, and it would have been cheaper again using the aftermarket stuff.
Unless of course he's stuffed up his costs.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[101RRS]

Cheers Gary, but I have an itemised invoice that states:
6HP 26 FILTER $45
PAN GASKET $35
Genuine ZF OIL $25 x 10 = $250
Steel sump $100
Labour $70
Incl. 10% gst



You got a good price - the price of the oil is less than the ZF price so I guess he has got it at trade price and not put any margin on it. The ZF retail price is about $550 for a 20 litre drum. LR charge $90 for one litre.

Likewise the ZF price for the steel pan kit is about $280 so you got a real good price for the sump. $70 labour is a great price considering the work involved and the need to remove the gearbox cooling pipes to do a full ATF change.

I might have to get my car booked in.

Cheers

Garry

[Fatso]

Cheers Gary, but I have an itemised invoice that states:
6HP 26 FILTER $45
PAN GASKET $35
Genuine ZF OIL $25 x 10 = $250
Steel sump $100
Labour $70
Incl. 10% gst

They've been in business 25 years and seemed to have plenty of business, including many euro cars.
I did also speak to the owner specifically about using non genuine fluid vs genuine, and it would have been cheaper again using the aftermarket stuff.
Unless of course he's stuffed up his costs.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

Suggest he may have stuffed up his costs as this seems to be incredibly low for the job at hand , my costs were 12lts oil @ $35 ltr , $395 for the steel oil pan including new pan studs + labour and gst came to $1160 .
All parts were from ZF in Perth .

[Rich84]

I bought my LG6 through an auto trans specialist who I talk to quite often, the guy lives and breathes autos!! Main North Automatics in Adelaide.


Was $30 per litre.

[jonesy63]

Looks like he also forgot to charge for the 21 new torx bolts - as they're different lengths on the steel sumps. :angel:

[BusinessConnected]

Seems very cheap!!!


As indicated the Steel Sumps seem to be at the cheapest around $200AUD (and that's the aftermarket ones designed for the Ford Territory ZF's)


I've used the Fuchs ATF 4400 (Comes in 20 Litre Drums) at around $135 a Drum... much cheaper than the ZF stuff and no problems at all 10,000km along (others have used this stuff as well).


I have done this to 2 x D3's now (Petrol 6 and Diesel).

[101RRS]

I've used the Fuchs ATF 4400 (Comes in 20 Litre Drums) at around $135 a Drum... much cheaper than the ZF stuff and no problems at all 10,000km along (others have used this stuff as well).

I have also heard the Fuchs works but given the cost of a new gearbox it is too risky to try - I will let others take the risk.

[BusinessConnected]

I will also add that I used the DR Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx and LuveGuard Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) Protectant when I refilled by Auto...

[Bandi1950]

Land rovers gave me a price for transmission fluid of $103 a litre. The price from Ford for their transmission fluid is $66 per litre which I am pretty sure is the same oil. Can this be used instead?

[sheerluck]

Land rovers gave me a price for transmission fluid of $103 a litre. The price from Ford for their transmission fluid is $66 per litre which I am pretty sure is the same oil. Can this be used instead?

Same gearbox (more or less), same fluid, so long as you ask for the stuff for the 6HP26.

[Rich84]

Seriously, talk to an auto trans specialist, they usually have an account with ZF and will be able to get this stuff a lot cheaper. Don't pay $66 per litre and especially don't pay $103 per litre!


ZF lifeguard 6 is the correct fluid. The Ford and LR stuff is just repackaged versions of this.

[Grappler]

Im planning my next auto trans oil change for my 2006 RRS 235K km
Im considering replacing the 4 rubber tube seals and the adaptor seal for the mechatronic assembly
Is it possible to remove the mechatronic assembly (to replace the 5 seals), with the transmission in the car?
I have upgraded previously to a metal pan/filter, but can the mechatronics assembly manouevre past the x member?
Also Im interested to know how much extra oil drais when the mechatronics valve assemly is removed?

The only info Ive seen online relates to ZF6hp26 in BMW and it has clear access to drop the valve unit

[DiscoJeffster]

Eric will be by to comment but I believe he jacked the trans and removed the cross member to get better room to manoeuvre the valve body out.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Thanks DJ, on the D4 you need to remove the cross member to get the valve body out. Transmission stays in the car. Removing cross member is really easy and gives you so much more room. The cross over pipe on the exhaust is still in the way, but there is no physical way with the cross member in place.

I put a jack under the back of the transmission and lifted about 50mm to get thr pan and filter out. Then leaving the pan off, lowered down and allowed the valve body to drain out overnight, collected about another 3-4 litres from memory. Once the valve body was out, it still drains as there's fluid in all the galleries. The torque converter also continues to drain, best to leave a tray underneath the whole time.

[loanrangie]

Im planning my next auto trans oil change for my 2006 RRS 235K km Im considering replacing the 4 rubber tube seals and the adaptor seal for the mechatronic assembly Is it possible to remove the mechatronic assembly (to replace the 5 seals), with the transmission in the car? I have upgraded previously to a metal pan/filter, but can the mechatronics assembly manouevre past the x member? Also Im interested to know how much extra oil drais when the mechatronics valve assemly is removed? The only info Ive seen online relates to ZF6hp26 in BMW and it has clear access to drop the valve unit What symptoms are you having ? , been doing research myself and looks like i may need to do the seals as well or hold out and do the valve body as Eric has done.

[Eric SDV6SE]

It's easiest to do all the seals at once.

This includes:
Sump gasket
Mechatronic seal
Valve body to transmission seals (4 off)
Valve body separator plate
Solenoids and foam seal to valve body

I also did all of the valve body end of line seals and the accumulator as well.

[loanrangie]

It's easiest to do all the seals at once.

This includes:
Sump gasket
Mechatronic seal
Valve body to transmission seals (4 off)
Valve body separator plate
Solenoids and foam seal to valve body

I also did all of the valve body end of line seals and the accumulator as well.

I figured it would be, just at the planning stage.

[Eric SDV6SE]

Yes, definitely. I forgot about the pump seal in the last post. The issue is over time the valve body to transmission seals get pushed up into the transmission body too far, creating a gap between the valve body and transmission, leading to pressure losses and so poor shifting etc.

The mechatronic seal is pretty easy but fiddly. Just ensure you've got the alignment tabs lined up and it's about a quarter turn to lock or unlock


A couple of photos of when I did mine,they are posted elsewhere on this forum as well. The last one shows the new pump seal and vb to trans seals.

175 000km on the transmission at that point.

152195
152196
152197

[Grappler]

Thanks DJ, on the D4 you need to remove the cross member to get the valve body out. Transmission stays in the car. Removing cross member is really easy and gives you so much more room. The cross over pipe on the exhaust is still in the way, but there is no physical way with the cross member in place.

I put a jack under the back of the transmission and lifted about 50mm to get thr pan and filter out. Then leaving the pan off, lowered down and allowed the valve body to drain out overnight, collected about another 3-4 litres from memory. Once the valve body was out, it still drains as there's fluid in all the galleries. The torque converter also continues to drain, best to leave a tray underneath the whole time.

Im relying on my poor memory, but from what I remember from last time I had the sump off the transmission, the x member is not removable on the RRS.

[Grappler]

What symptoms are you having ? , been doing research myself and looks like i may need to do the seals as well or hold out and do the valve body as Eric has done.

Not got any symptoms. The transmission runs fine. Its just that other sites recommend changing out the seals as a preventative measure.
I was keen the change out the seals which I have available, but only if the valve body is easily dropped from the gearbox. On a RRS it may not be feasible

[PerthDisco]

Do the noted specialist transmission service shops advise this extra procedure once the gearboxes get to the third or more oil flush (or would you have to ask)?

[loanrangie]

Do the noted specialist transmission service shops advise this extra procedure once the gearboxes get to the third or more oil flush (or would you have to ask)?On one site I read that the seals should be replaced at 60-70k .