Series Vs 110/Defender

[uninformed]

Hey all,

what are the differences between the say Series IIa/3 to a 110/Defender with regards to the rear tub? Im talking 109/110 Lwb hard top (2 door models) Is the wheel arch in a different spot? Is the construction any differnt? Is one made from thicker material?

cheers,
Serg

[Davo]

There's a big difference with the size and shape of the wheel arch, since on the 110 it's meant to have those plastic flares. There's some talk as well about how in about the early 90s they started using thinner Birmabright.

[uninformed]

wheel arches should not be a problem to much. If this plan comes to fruition I will be making my own custom flares/arches from aluminium

[isuzurover]

Defender door skins and front guards are thinner (or softer). Not sure about rear tubs.

As mentioned, the wheel arch hole is smaller on a series. A skilled panel beater can turn a series guard opening into a 110 guard opening.

There are some other minor differences depending on the year and type of rear door/tailgate fitted.

But in short - they are essentially interchangeable.

[uninformed]

does anyone know if the center of the wheel arch is the same distance from front or back between a series and a coils sprung. Even though there is only 1 inch WB difference, I thought I had read something about the front axle on a series being further forward???

[isuzurover]

does anyone know if the center of the wheel arch is the same distance from front or back between a series and a coils sprung. Even though there is only 1 inch WB difference, I thought I had read something about the front axle on a series being further forward???

Serg - it is largely irrelevant if you are fitting 110 flares. The 110 opening is wide enough to account for a couple of " either way. Even moreso if you fit front flares which are wider still IRC.

I can't recall where the 1" difference is - maybe it is in the front.

Series openings appear too far back anyway:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/isuzurover/320troop20scrub.jpg
Note how the centre of the hub is forward of the wheelarch centre at ride height. The wheel moves back as the suspension compresses though.

[uninformed]

thanks Ben, If the 109's front axle is 1 inch further forward, it would have to mean that the rear axle was 2 inches futher forward......but that is ifs and maybes.

My concept is to make a custom hard top 110. WB and axles stay where they are. Cut rear overhang some what so it matches the front at least. Move front of tub rearward to allow for longer doors. Custom build roof. Tub side tops would just be modded hardtop sides.

This is all just in my head atm, I have no experience with LWB body varriants etc

[isuzurover]

thanks Ben, If the 109's front axle is 1 inch further forward, it would have to mean that the rear axle was 2 inches futher forward......but that is ifs and maybes.



???

No - either a 110 has the rear axle 1" further back than a 109 or the front axle 1" further forward.

Since I have one of each I can always measure hub cente to firewall distances on both this evening if it helps.

[goingbush]

A skilled panel beater can turn a series guard opening into a 110 guard opening.


Don't know about that. I would not call myself a panel beater of any description, butcher would be more apt.

Heres the result of a pair of tinsnips & a pop riveter,

metalwork is all 1966 Series 2A with a glass bonnet & apron
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/06/387.jpg

[uninformed]

I really like the look of your rig Goingbush. Nice classic lines!

As im 6.2, I think the defender wind screen will be better suited for me. btw the starting vehicle is a 110 cab chassis.

Doors, the easy way to to make series type with sliding windows. But it would be nice to have wind ups. I have seen some home built wind ups with removable tops......this needs more investigation.

[JDNSW]

The front axle in the 110 is further back, and the back axle even further back than on a 109. Not sure of the numbers, but I think the front axle is more than an inch further back.

But as commented above, except for the wheel arch all the panels are the same dimensions from Series 2 to current Defender, and are interchangeable subject to changes in design and detail fittings, so you might have to do some adapting.

This does not apply to the 88 versus the 90 - not only is the wheelbase four and a half inches longer, but the body, and hence the tub and everything else is longer too.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

At 6'2" you'll find the truck cab of a 110" or 109" a little squeezy, I'd be looking for one of the ex Telstra extra cabs, so you can move the seat a little rearwards.

[isuzurover]

At 6'2" you'll find the truck cab of a 110" or 109" a little squeezy, I'd be looking for one of the ex Telstra extra cabs, so you can move the seat a little rearwards.

Serg owns and drives a 110 ute as his only vehicle - and has done for many years.

[uninformed]

At 6'2" you'll find the truck cab of a 110" or 109" a little squeezy, I'd be looking for one of the ex Telstra extra cabs, so you can move the seat a little rearwards.

;) I had a 74 SIII swb Truck cab for 3 years and have had my 110 Tray back for 12 years.....

The Idea is to build a 2 door hard top, with longer doors and more leg room. Its just a pipe dream now, but has to start somewhere right.

[DasLandRoverMan]

At 6ft 3 I've never been uncomfortable in any of the Land Rovers I've owned or driven, even on long runs.

The one exception was a near continuous 8 hour run in the 101 with standard seats.

By the end of that one I was walking like John Wayne, had a pounding headache, and serious back pain. 2 hours and a few beers sorted that though.

Anyways, never had a problem with either my SWB Series II (smaller cab) or either of the 90's I had.

It's a question of a comfortable seat, and getting it positioned right.

[uninformed]

yeah I guess after 15years I just havent found the correct seat postion....does that also mean you wouldnt want more leg room?

[isuzurover]

yeah I guess after 15years I just havent found the correct seat postion....does that also mean you wouldnt want more leg room?

Same here - I am 6'4" and needed to see a physio after driving my 109" from Brisbane-Perth. I have lost count of the number of times I have bashed my knee on the steering column getting in and out of 88's and 109's.

Bear in mind that DLRM is a pom - they think a "long" journey would be your trip to the beach each morning Serg...

I once hired a car in Glasgow that I was going to drop off in London. The girl behind the counter said, "because you are driving such a long way I have upgraded you"...

It is basically Brisbane-Goondiwindi :D

[JDNSW]

....

It is basically Brisbane-Goondiwindi :D

With a few more cars (and towns) on the way!

John

[wagoo]

;) I had a 74 SIII swb Truck cab for 3 years and have had my 110 Tray back for 12 years.....

The Idea is to build a 2 door hard top, with longer doors and more leg room. Its just a pipe dream now, but has to start somewhere right.
I'm only 5'9'' and still would like more legroom..Have thought about reshaping the footwells and pushing the pedal assemblies further forward.I moved the complete firewall forward 5'' on my old 6x6 with 36'' tyres, so there is room for deeper footwells.
Bill.

[pfillery]

I'm 6'2" and do the daily commute (90km round trip 5 days a week) in my 109 series 3 hardtop. Never had a complaint about the legroom. I once cut my knee on the door key that was hanging on the ignition switch on the same keyring as the ignition key (I only keep the door, tailgate and ignition key on the ring) as they are all keyed differently. Knees get a bit tired on a longer run but I don't do anything too strenuous or long. Mine has standard seats with no adjustment.

If we are voting I vote +1 for the series. I've never driven a defender but don't find the look of them quite as appealing as the series, particularly at the front. Same goes for the stage one. I prefer the series 2 look, lights in the middle and steel dash. To me that says landrover like nothing else can. Love the S1 as well but as a daily drive probably not ideal unless you spend big $$$ and find one that is near perfect.

[uninformed]

its clear we are all passionate about our Landrovers......some to the point that it has blocked the comfort reseptors in their brains. Im not here asking whether I should do it or if you feel you have enough leg room. Nore am I conducting a poll on what vehicle you would like to see me build. I have a 110 tray back, I want more inside cabin room, I want more leg room. I want longer doors.

cheers.

[wrinklearthur]

I'm only 5'9'' and still would like more legroom..Have thought about reshaping the footwells and pushing the pedal assemblies further forward.I moved the complete firewall forward 5'' on my old 6x6 with 36'' tyres, so there is room for deeper footwells.
Bill.

I have enough room for the belly but not for my toes (size 13 Blundstones).
your idea sound good Bill .
.

[wagoo]

Longer doors should make an extra cab conversion relatively straight forward, because the cabin rear panels wouldn't require extending.Just the roof lid, floor panels and transmission hump.
Bill.

[uninformed]

Bill, not sure if you were commenting to me or the concept of an extra cab in general......Im not looking at doing an extra cab, but a custom hard top. Think full length. So from a glance it would look like a 110/109 hard top. But the rear overhang would be less, the doors longer, the roof custom (think angled folds rather than curves) and aluminium flares/arches.

My starting point would be the rear tub. Im thinking that if I cut the rear and re cap it, mabye have to do the same with the front end and sit it in postion so the doors would be say 5-8 inches longer. Either use a stock seat base or custom build some. Use the defender windscreen. To my way of thinking the doors would be the hardest part.....maybe farm them out:confused:

[modman]

Doors would be a real PITA
If using a 2door wagon as a start what about removing ac ( roof or behind seat)
Remove bulkhead from behind seat
Move seat box rearwards
Shorten steering shaft and cowling
Extending doors scares me like spray painting a car
Noooooooooooo:(
Dc

[wagoo]

Bill, not sure if you were commenting to me or the concept of an extra cab in general......Im not looking at doing an extra cab, but a custom hard top. Think full length. So from a glance it would look like a 110/109 hard top. But the rear overhang would be less, the doors longer, the roof custom (think angled folds rather than curves) and aluminium flares/arches.

My starting point would be the rear tub. Im thinking that if I cut the rear and re cap it, mabye have to do the same with the front end and sit it in postion so the doors would be say 5-8 inches longer. Either use a stock seat base or custom build some. Use the defender windscreen. To my way of thinking the doors would be the hardest part.....maybe farm them out:confused:
Yes Serg, I did misunderstand your original post.
Lengthening the doors, unless you went to Series type sliding glass is fairly intricate. Frigging around with the front end of the tub gets messy.Admittedly I'm rough and ready but I'd move the tub back the 5-8 inches, cut off the overhang, then shorten the roof lid and sides.The larger wheel openings shouldn't look too bad, but I'd avoid ally flairs.Too easily damaged.Those plastic mudguards on semi trailers and prime movers are available in a smaller size I believe. The full size version are about $80. Cut the inner and outer 1/3rd off and you have 2 flairs.To panel beat the desired shape in the side panels for Defender flairs I used to drill 6 evenly spaced 1/4'' holes through 2 straight lengths of 1''x 1/2'' flat steel bar, bolt them and tack weld them together in several spots, and then bend them to the desired shape of the wheel opening in my hydraulic press. I modified 6 x 4'' G clamps by welding a 1'' length of 1/4'' steel rod to both the jaw and screw and then cutting the rod in half.The panel to be modified was cut to shape leaving an extra inch margin for the flange, then clamped between the 2 steel formers.The pegs on the G clamps located in the bolt holes to align the formers together. after a bit of practice on scrap bits of ally I was able to beat the edges over on around 10 series front guards and 5 rear tubs without tearing any.
The flange on a constant curve for a half circle mudguard would be easier to form IMO.
Bill.

[uninformed]

Thanks guys. The problem with moving the seat back and not lengthening the door is the width of LR's. At the moment driving is most comfortable with the window down and arm resting outside of it.....body sweat/fat does wonders for the paint! Yes you can move the seats in but thats not ideal for my way of thinking.

I have seen scratch built LR type doors that are much longer, wind up windows and removable door tops.

As for the aluminium flares, Bill the ones I would be building would not be curved. They would be flat across the top and angle down on the sides. The profile is made from angle with a folded section creating the external shape. These are extremely strong. I have witnessed said vehicle brush a tree along the gaurd to only have it move the body on the springs. Over 30 years of hard bush and offroad abuse and the body work is still straight for the most part. The flares have to be wider than stock to allow for a wider track. IMO good strong flares will strengthen the body panels to some extent. Yes if enough force is applied it will make damage somewhere, but by that stage the stock panels and flares would be copping a hiding.

Dave/modman, I think the bulkhead behind the seat is structural is it not? If that the case I think moving the tub rear wards the easiest way....:confused:

[Davo]

Dave/modman, I think the bulkhead behind the seat is structural is it not? If that the case I think moving the tub rear wards the easiest way....

Yup, it's structural, holding up the roof, door strikers, seatbelts in some cases, and of course the seatbase and therefore the seats. It's got a few folds and reinforcement bits and lots of spotwelds in true Landy style so I wouldn't want to muck around with it.

[wrinklearthur]

How would you go making the distance up by making false door pillars? the doors could remain standard then.
.

[modman]

No bulkhead in 5 door wagons 110and 130's
Plenty of bulkhead removal bars around
But I get it about shoulder width
I do worry about side impact
The first thing to go through my mind would be a seat belt anchorage bolt!!!!!