Broken Rangie 93, Transfer case?

[milld]

My spirited driving style has got my poor Rangie broken and just after I fixed the fuel pump, gauges, ignition module :(

At the lights and I gave it to her a bit more than normal and then I hear this horrible scraping noise, no grinding noises just a circular metal scraping noise. No movement in any gear. Tried low range but the same thing. Good thing I'm an RACQ member with free 50km towing :)

The drive train has always been a bit clunky, especially selecting reverse.
Do you think the chain in the BW has come off?

Does anyone else have a spare that I can buy off them?

Steps to prove what has broken ?

Thanks again for the help lol :)

[GuyG]

I've got a BW VC that's been taken out of a 91 Vogue SE - sending pm

[milld]

Thanks Guy,

After doing a bit of research I think I've most likely stripped the splines on the output shaft. Doing some more research but I may look at fitting an LT230Q instead.
Since this Rangie is going to be used for heavy offroading.

I'm just glad this didn't happen out in the sticks.

You wouldn't have one of these Guy? Or anyone else that is in good condition?

Cheers

Steve

[GuyG]

No spare LT230's sorry, Outcast Offroad might

[91ramjet]

Hi i wouldnt even think of putting another b/warner transfer in. I learnt the hard way. mine failed in cape york very costly excercise to get car home on boat. lt 230 all the way and its a very simple conversion. all you need is the front prop shaft and i think drivers side mount and it will bolt straight up if my memory serves me correctly.

I might even have a transfer case for you pm me your phone number and ill let you know. jake.

[vogue]

Similar happened to my old '89 Rangie, swapped in a LT230, heaps better.
If your running bigger rubber you might even want to consider a Defender transfer case with the lower high range gearing.

[PhilipA]

IMHO, ther eis nothing really wrong with a BW that frequent oil changes with good oil will not fix, although it's a bit late when the output shaft is stuffed.

Mine has now done 210KK and is still beautifully quiet and smooth, but I change the ATF with Transmax Z before every big trip or about 15KK.

BUT I am not complacent.

I am slowly accumulating bits to rebuild mine . So far I have a new output shaft and second hand low K VC and I will progressively buy a new chain and bearing set.

I bought a spare complete case on ebay the other day for $26 , with AFAIK a stripped output shaft at 330KK .
Now 330K is a fair run IMHO.

But the old BW is IMHO a real advance for touring over the LT230 in its quietness and smoothness and in my considerable off road experience over 12years of ownership gives almost nothing away to an LT230 or LT95.

My 2 bobs worth but geeeeez they are expensive to rebuild.

BTW AFAIK if the chain is very worn it will slip cogs under hard acceleration giving a BANG BANG . If you have the no drive it is most likely the output shaft.
Regards Philip A

[superquag]

Mine died around 150 to 160K. NOT impressed, as the first 70 k of its life was on tarmac only, driven by a,...um.. refined Gentlman. 2nd owner was family guy and it got a lot of beach work.

Since sourced a 'good' 2nd hand BW box, and one day I'll swap the VC and its housing. - Easier than the whole box if you're doing it on your own and your mechanic is a bit rusty...:p

If the dealer-services for the first 70k did'nt change the oil...then I doubt very much if the Cheap backyard mechanic did it for the 2nd owner...:eek:

Every 15k sounds rather extreme... Does the fresh oil benefit the VC?- Can't see how, except perhaps to keep the bearings running cooler (being better than spec's and newer..) - the exhaust on mine runs close to the T/F case, keeps it warm on chilly nights, no doubt.:p:p:p

[PhilipA]

Every 15k sounds rather extreme... Does the fresh oil benefit the VC?- Can't see how, except perhaps to keep the bearings running cooler (being better than spec's and newer..) - the exhaust on mine runs close to the T/F case, keeps it warm on chilly nights, no doubt.:p:p:p


You are probably correct in that it is a bit extreme, but then I have never broken down anywhere . What caused me to change even the full synthetic regularly was that the oil discolours very quickly. I posted on this with photos last year and David Ashcroft AFAIR replied that the cases get quite hot and this causes the oil to discolour.

My front ouput seal failed last year probably from exhaust heat.

I do not think that it would have a major benefit for the VC. I think avoiding single axle wheelspin is probably the best practice.I have towed my Camper all over Australia including GRR, Kalumburu, Mitchell falls, Strez, Oodnadatta,and last year up the Cape including the Northern OTT.

So far so good but as I said I will probably rebuild it this year sometime to be sure of reliability.That rear output shaft seems the weak point along with the VC.

As a comment on reliability, almost every 4WD now has a chain driven transfer including D4, 200LC , all the Yanks. The only real reason that they weren't put in D1 was AFAIK cost.
Regards Philip A

[milld]

I bought the Rangie as the 3rd owner. First owner was the manager of Landrover dealership in Sydney and had it for a couple of years. The next owner who I bought it from was his daily driver up until 2006. He got it serviced at the recommended times as he did long trips for his work and reliability was of the upmost. A major service was done on it 2007 about 12k ago. I recently changed all oils except the auto, dextron 3 and 30% lucas in the transfercase. Wow did this smooth the box out further. I even put Exhaust wrap near where the transfercase is to help with the heat. Apart from the usual clunk when selecting reverse I had no warning. (Could be the diff) She just gave way when I had the pedal down. If anyone wants mine when I pull it out they are more than welcome. I will be doing the conversion as I have not much faith in these boxes. I haven't had much experiences with the Rangie yet but from what I hear I wouldn't want to have one past the 200k, especially travelling. Mines failed at 257k.

A little warning to others who have an ageing Borgwarner VC. Be gentle with it, no extreme sudden power to it.

Now I'm sure someone is willing to part with their LT230 that they've been holding on to lol?.......please?

[bee utey]

I remember a thread on these things about a year ago, someone lost drive in their RRC while deep in the bush. Apparently the shaft that strips is accessible without removing the whole case, just the output housing. It had to be fixed exactly where it was to drive it out! Someone may remember that thread.

[milld]

maybe I should just get my welder out and weld the bastered up. Be the strongest Borgwarner VC then :P

[POD]

I remember a thread on these things about a year ago, someone lost drive in their RRC while deep in the bush. Apparently the shaft that strips is accessible without removing the whole case, just the output housing. It had to be fixed exactly where it was to drive it out! Someone may remember that thread.

I think I remember it- it was quite a walk out. I had a spare BW case in the shed with a seized viscous coupling, so robbed the output shaft out of that. The shaft can be swapped with the transfer in the vehicle, I swapped out the complete rear output housing.
My 90 model that had the failure is my bush car- it now runs a LT230 so has one less failure-prone area. my soft-dash 94 model, which I am a bit precious with and will never take off-road, has the BW box that I rebuilt after the above failure. I don't think I would trust one of these boxes for fair-dinkum 4wd use unless I changed the centre shaft every 80,000k and carried a spare.
Swapping the BW for the LT230 is a straightforward process, if I recall correctly the handbrake backing plate has to have 1 of the 4 holes redrilled but the other 3 line up, front propshaft is a different length, mounting brackets are of course different but bolt to the same location on the chassis. The console has to be modified to allow sideways movement of the shift lever, I have still not got around to finishing this bit, just a gaping ugly hole.

[POD]

maybe I should just get my welder out and weld the bastered up. Be the strongest Borgwarner VC then :P

There's another thing- the shaft that strips and the VC that seizes are two completely separate components, both prone to failure causing two significant and totally different problems in these boxes.

[superquag]

I've got the VC that's siezed...:mad: running rear-wheel drive at the moment.... just waiting for the other bit to strip.:o

Typical of LR, replacing a part that works (LT230) with a less reliable / suitable one...

[milld]

Hi all,

I found an Lt230 from gracemere wreckers today, off a disco v8 auto build date April 96. Looks pretty clean, not caked with oil/grease. He said I could have it for $120 car had 216k on the clock. What do you guys think? Doesn't have the front prop shaft and the high/low & lock is missing. He said he could pull it out for $160

[dungarover]

The price of the LT230 is about right, the only bugger is that you'll have to get the rest of it which could add a hundred or so to the price :(. I usually sell them for @ $500 with everything you need (driveshaft, linkages etc..) pending on the condition of the unit of course :)

I like the BW unit, very smooth and refined bit of gear but I find it a bit **** weak when it comes to the crunch. Great for road use and some off-road all the same but I find with more modified RRC's the BW can cause a few headaches (bloke in our club's modded RRC had one and it forevere kept direcing drive to the front wheels whenever he put the rear maxi drive in :mad: I remeber the same thing happeneing to me in my 93 classic about 10 years back when I fitted an air locker to the rear, the front would always spin and the rear would barely move. Very ****ing annoying :mad::mad::mad:).

It must be BW breakage season because I also killed mine about 3 weeks ago, thought it was the auto which it wasn't. Luckily I had a LT230 out of a Disco I'm parting out so I threw that in.

Trav

[milld]

I've just been doing some tests; lifted drivers front tyre, handbrake on. Could not rotate the front lifted wheel whatsoever. If my splines are stripped shouldn't I just hear the metal scraping sound as I turn the wheel? Could my VCU be seized as well as the splines stripped?

[bee utey]

I've just been doing some tests; lifted drivers front tyre, handbrake on. Could not rotate the front lifted wheel whatsoever. If my splines are stripped shouldn't I just hear the metal scraping sound as I turn the wheel? Could my VCU be seized as well as the splines stripped?

The VC takes quite some force to make it slip.

[milld]

I put all my weight on it trying to turn the wheel and couldn't. I might try the 60ftpound and 90 deg in 60 sec from a wheel nut to turn.

[superquag]

Easy way is to turn full lock.. listen for the chirping front tyres...:mad:

[POD]

I've just been doing some tests; lifted drivers front tyre, handbrake on. Could not rotate the front lifted wheel whatsoever. If my splines are stripped shouldn't I just hear the metal scraping sound as I turn the wheel? Could my VCU be seized as well as the splines stripped?

What you are doing there is testing movement in the VC between front and rear outputs; the centre splines are what connects all of this to the drive chain. So no, this will not be affected by the stripped splines.

[milld]

Sorry for the seemingly dumb question, I haven't studied the workings of the transfercase yet, but when I went underneath looking today it's obvious.

Cheers

[clubagreenie]

There's a very recent listing of a LT230 in the markets for sale in Bris.

[milld]

Hi all,

I managed to give the LT 230 a nice clean. Opened the inspection plate and the gears look perfect. Just ordered a new seal kit. The guy at the wreckers must have been a bit barbaric because he pulled the oil seal out of it to help drain, But he's made a small bur at the seal entry. Don't know what to do about this though. I'll try and take a pic of the bur another time.

[milld]

It ended up being the rear output shaft on the BW that was found to be rounded down. Disgusting design by Landrover, not much meat to begin with anyways.

[PhilipA]

Told you. ( I must check mine one of these days)
I also have a spare with the same. The bloke thought it had a broken chain but the case would have been cactus. I haven't pulled it down yet but I am pretty sure it is the rear shaft.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

Disgusting design by Landrover

I would have thought that Borg Warner designed it. It's strange that BW supply just about all the 4WD transmissions to US cars, and I have never heard of it in say Chevs.

Is it that RRC owners do not maintain their cars as well as others?
darned if I know.

Regards Philip A

[superquag]

My own guess is that LR either don't pay for, or insist on, or QC to a high enough standard...

Another possibility is deliberate 'designing-down' in order to increase breakages in all but the most over-maintained & soft-duty cars...

LR would not be the first British car to exhibit incomprehensible design/material choice.:twisted:

[milld]

True, although Landrover still let the design to go through :P. I think I'm still slightly annoyed that this happens on the later model RRC and the earlier ones are stronger with the LT230. grrrr. NOw I know why people say to get the pre 89 model Rangies + no ABS/ Air suspension etc lol.

I would have thought RRC owners would maintain their cars more so than others because if they don't things break more requiring more expense. I've looked back through the services and everything has been spot on with this machine. All I can say is that if anyone has one of these boxes in their Rangie then go gentle with the power as there is not much metal keeping these things from stripping or swap it out with the LT230.

You are quite welcome to have another BW if you want Philip. I'm pretty certain that the VC is still good because I never had any tyre scrubbing/churping issues.

I think it comes down to the fact that the shaft is to small for the size of the grooves or that the metal isn't hard enough..... not sure. I wish I had a hoist though, not much fun when you have to do this job in the gravel.

[milld]

Just out of curiosity......

Does this happen to P38's? They use pretty much the same box? L322's box?
Just interested....

Cheers

[milld]

I'm happy to report that the 93 Rangie now has an LT230T from a 96 disco in it and is going very well :)
And I no longer have loud clunks when putting it in reverse + sudden acceleration. People keep saying how smooth and quiet the BW is but to tell the truth, I can hardly tell the difference, very smooth & quiet. I would recommend this conversion to anyone who has a classic from 89 up. I ended cutting half of the coin tray & fitted a new D1 boot & shifter nob. :) Easy conversion but annoying to say the least.

Cheers

Steve

[Homestar]

Just out of curiosity......

Does this happen to P38's? They use pretty much the same box? L322's box?
Just interested....

Cheers

Hi Milld, not sure what is in the P38, but the L322 is completely different to anything else. The L322 TC is an NV225 made by New Venture Gear (Now Magna Powertrain) It is a high tech bit of kit - torque sensing and electronically controlled.

You don't want to break one of these, they cost about $4K for a replacement...

[milld]

Pretty much cost about the same as what my classic is worth :( ouch. Wish I had money to throw around, although I thought it was funny at the car wash the other day when someone was running around desperate to get the most of his $2 worth with his new flash Lexus lol

[Homestar]

although I thought it was funny at the car wash the other day when someone was running around desperate to get the most of his $2 worth with his new flash Lexus lol

:Rolling::Rolling: That is so funny, because I do exactly the same thing with the Rangie when I go to the car wash...:p

[milld]

bahaha, I think its just human nature though, I'd probably be the same to be honest, there's something about that timer that makes it in to a life or death situation and it hurts to have to throw another $1 in when you have to 10sec left to do the last rinse lol.