Locker(s) vs flexy dislocating suspension

[isuzurover]

Watch this vid from 2:23
Lockers vs Extreme Suspension - YouTube
A series with a rear locker putters up a hill without any trouble.
A 90 with super flexy dislocating suspension cannot make it up despite multiple attempts and lots of numbers.

[series3]

Reading the comments indicates that a TruTrac LSD is in the front of the series as well...

Sam

[isuzurover]

Reading the comments indicates that a TruTrac LSD is in the front of the series as well...

Sam

Fair enough, but you can see in the S3's first run up the hill that a TT doesn't help when a wheel lifts off. The front left wheel spins and the other remains stationary.

However the key point still stands - no matter how flexy your suspension is, lockers will win.

[series3]

I was thinking if it would even make any difference at all considering almost all of the weight would be on the rear wheels while going up the hill? The front wheels with no weight on them don't make much difference?

Sam

[isuzurover]

I was thinking if it would even make any difference at all considering almost all of the weight would be on the rear wheels while going up the hill? The front wheels with no weight on them don't make much difference?

Sam

You would be surprised. Try driving up that hill in a series in 2WD low (you need FWH, a broken front axle, removed prop, or modified t-case selectors to do this) with the rear locker engaged. You won't get far.

[Boof Ed]

Generally I would agree with lockers being better, but there have been a few muddy climbs I've tried, got most the way up with no lockers. next go very little difference with both lockers. I have 33in BFF muddies, heaps of flex and full tuck front n rear.

My mate has no lockers n a bit better flex (controlable air springs) n we are pretty even. Mind you has in running 37s.

I think it's due to in mud (if you can keep wheels on the ground) if you can keep them all spinning it's still pushing you forward. Rocks are different altogether (higher traction) lockers win hands down.

[goingbush]

Its just like LandRover engineers watched that video and finally decided Long Travel suspension was not required so invented the Discovery 3

[stuee]

I don't think that was the point this video was trying to get across. You have long travel suspension, and you have dislocating suspension. Generally, a well setup long travel suspension system will maintain a reasonable amount of down-pressure on all wheels, even at full extension. With dislocating suspension, once the spring become dislocated its simply the weight of the wheel and part of the axle assembly applying down pressure to the ground, it really doesn't offer much advantage over the same setup but with retained springs.

Watching a stock D3 offroad through some nice frame twisting sections, it had better articulation than any (edit*) standard (*edit) D1 or D2 there. I don't think they have abandoned long travel suspension going by how well it performed.

[bush ranger]

G'day all. I can't see the point in debating this. Just do Lockers front and back AND Long Travels all 'round, end of discussion. It's called having your mud/cake and eating it too then going back for 2nds. Cheers, Bushranger.

[Tombie]

Always said it and will say it again...

Flex is for posers - Traction is for goers...

No weight on a wheel still = no drive.


Flex looks spectacular but locked wins every time.

[Grimace]

Meh Lockers are over rated for 98% of the wheeling most people in Aus do.
Not saying I disagree, I also think stupidy amounts of flex and unretained coils is overrated.
I do agree a rear locker is the best traction mod you can do to your offroad vehicle.
BUT
Give me a unlocked decent flexing (not super) retained coiled rig any day.

Further more, in the wrong hands, and when you really do need a locker, used incorrectly lockers can be very dangerous.

Look at me all serious... Wheel what you got, to your maximum potential :cool:, the vehicle is always more capable then the driver, ALWAYS!! ;)

[lambrover]

I have been out with standard height defender with lockers front and rear. I had long travel suspension in mine, when we come to a hill that had wash outs in it the double locked vehicle lifted two wheels and started slipping the others and couldn't make the hill. My car whilst not locked back then but was able to keep all four wheels on the ground I drove up no problems.

So in my opinion suspension first then lockers.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[manchild21000]

I recently disconnected my springs on the top and very happy with the Gwyn Lewis relocation cones with the hooks . Retaining sounds good in theory and has its place ,but as soon as the spring fully extend and start to strech it pulled the truck back violently and caused a few hairy situations . Now i just roll trough the same spot with the cab dead level .Yes they make a noise when relocating ,but the sound of a retained spring twisting and rubbing together ,squirming and banging was unbearable . It must be balanced though like everything else ,i did the front as well to fully get all the advantages .This is my experience and not a theory .I also must add i have a rear locker and massive articulation . As for flex for posers here is a video of the head poser Gwyn Lewis himself with his "poser " defender using his own suspension design .
Gwyn SS1 - YouTube
George

[Tombie]

Just watched the vid...

Good skills, but nothing magic in that design.

And re-locked stock Vs flexi...

You need exact same line, same everything to compare.
Different drivers remarkably changes the way it handles.

To each their own....

There's sound engineering, there's trial and error and even "it works" designs.

It stuns me how many people don't get suspension changes right.
My all time favorite - "How much coil lift do I need to run XYZ tyres?"

If it doesn't fit stock - it won't fit lifted.... (UNLESS other changes are made)

[manchild21000]

Too true about the myths ,i just tried to dispel some .No ,no magic just Gwyns 30 odd years of experience building trucks and designing suspension components for land rovers against someones 'expert" internet opinion and i mean that generally not saying it about you.
You're right it doesn't really shows in that video ,how about this one ?
UNB - Whitbread Landrover Buggy with Gwyn Lewis challenge suspension massive articulation - YouTube
George

[Grimace]

I'd drive a standard rover through that sort of terrain? Can not see what was so special about the suspension?
Had about the same amount of flex as a standard classic with some slightly longer shocks?

[manchild21000]

40 inch tyres take a lot away from the visual .Here is what it looks like with 31"s on my disco .
George

[jakeslouw]

How about torque biasing limited slip lockers and the good articulation as a combination?

TrueTrac's front and rear and some nice long travel coils and springs?

[Grimace]

40 inch tyres take a lot away from the visual .Here is what it looks like with 31"s on my disco .
George

Here a simple comparison.
37s on a rangie (mine), stock rear suspension geometry, retained coils (front and rear) 1" body lift, guards cut up . Just has longer shocks.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg138/scaled.php'server=138&filename=img6154.jpg&res=landing

This is not set up for maximum flex, nor is this shot a very good one to show the amount of flex available.

Here is another shot, with a different set of 37s, No body lift, retained coils, and only cycling about 10" of shock travel front and rear. Shows that you don't need to go all out to get decent flex.
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2721/dsc0131.jpg

I wheeled this car and similar set-up rovers unlocked for many years. With double locked rigs and it held up just fine, that I guess is why I have said lockers are overrated.

I'd still wheel a standard suspension rover through the sort of terrain in that vid :)

EDIT: p.s. just for the record I do not claim my set-up to be 'long travel' suspension. It's pretty much standard and can be achieved on any rover at a cost of a pair of shocks in the right length.
Hence my opinion on all the talk of long travel kits and dislocating springs is IMHO no gain. Gwyns stuff included. My credit goes to LR engineers for designing such a great suspension platform to work with. They are the true specialist.

[manchild21000]

There is one good looking Rangie , is it wrong for a grown man to fall in love with someone elses truck ?
George

[Grimace]

There is one good looking Rangie , is it wrong for a grown man to fall in love with someone elses truck ?
George

It's not wrong, I do it on a regular basis.

But it is wrong in this scenario, as my rangie is far from nice. The one in these pictures looks terrible at the moment, and the one I drive on an everyday basis is also terrible.


p.s. Sorry to go slightly off track with this thread. Back to Lockers v Flex :D