Problem with td6

[Pierre]

Mate of my brother's has a nice 2004 HSE. A week ago, some fuel problem occurred with it, the result of which saw the sump filled with diesel. The engine stopped in a cloud of smoke.

Now, the car has not been to specialist spanner, but the initial indication is "part of the fuel injection system has failed (fuel pump?) and the engine now requires rebuild at cost of $20K".

I don't have access to the RAVE CD at the moment, so I can't shed any light on the diagnosis to my bro.

Is there a collective picture I can pass on to start the consideration? For instance, an M57 ex UK is about $3500 + freight and gst at one end of the spectrum, but it would be encouraging if there's a less radical fix.

Any input is welcomed, especially from owners who may have had this issue.

TIA

Pete

[PAT303]

Sounds dodgy to me,how can the fuel pump fill the sump?,clean out the engine breather,that will cause the same simptoms. Pat

[Summiitt]

Do these engines run cylinder liners? I know on one of my trucks a few years ago, I cracked a liner and the result was that the sump filled with diesel, the result was an in chassis rebuild, but this was on a Detroit 14 litre, technology may be different in the European motors?hope It's a simple fix for your mate!

[Laurie]

Pete it could be as simple as a leaking injector, seal or line. Other possibilities are cracked head or timing is out (rare, but fuel would go past piston). Start by checking the simple things first, if you don't feel comfortable try a local diesel truck mechanic. I hope when you said it stopped in a cloud of smoke,it hadn't been free reving ( runaway engine) that resulted in a major death rattle.

[fraser130]

I've been trying to find a scenario where fuel could end up in the sump of a TD6 and the only way I can think of is past the piston. the fuel system goes no where near the inside of the engine until the injectors' nozzles, as there is no internal "rail", no fuel cooler, and the main high pressure pump is external and belt-driven.
I wonder if an injector has been leaking....
Did he have the car sitting for ages with the ignition left on, but the motor not running?(although I think the pumps turn off after a few seconds anyway).
Did he have a mis-fire or rough running for a while before the major problem?(low compression,(burnt valves, worn valves, loose injector) fuel not burning, leaking past rings)

Hmmm.....let us know if/what you find out


Cheers,
Fraser

[woko]

the main high pressure pump is external and belt-driven.
These don't have timing belts. The pump is driven by the cam chain. It is possible for the front seal to leak on the pump and fill the sump. There is a special service tool for removing the sprocket off the pump.

1st thing to do if you don't suspect engine damage through a runaway engine would be to remove injectors ( if you can, they have a habit of seizing into the head) and pump and have them tested.

[fraser130]

These don't have timing belts. The pump is driven by the cam chain. It is possible for the front seal to leak on the pump and fill the sump. There is a special service tool for removing the sprocket off the pump.

1st thing to do if you don't suspect engine damage through a runaway engine would be to remove injectors ( if you can, they have a habit of seizing into the head) and pump and have them tested.

You are absolutely correct, my mistake. It could very well be the front seal of the High pressure pump.
I do know it has no timing belt, but I mistakenly thought it was driven by the serpentine belt as it has no "timing" it's just a constant pressure pump, all the timing is electronic.

Cheers,

Fraser

[Pierre]

There was no runaway and it would appear that injectors are still patent. Thanks for the info about the front seal of the high pressure pump - this would appear to be the problem. Now what about the rest of the engine? Repair the damaged item and clear faults and try again?

That's how I'm thinking the advice may go.....

Thanks for the input, gents.

Pete

[fraser130]

There was no runaway and it would appear that injectors are still patent. Thanks for the info about the front seal of the high pressure pump - this would appear to be the problem. Now what about the rest of the engine? Repair the damaged item and clear faults and try again?

That's how I'm thinking the advice may go.....

Thanks for the input, gents.

Pete

I recon so....you might even be able to get a S/H one from a BMW wreckers at 1/4 the price if the pump is non-servicable ((M57 engine)

[Pierre]

The decision has been made - a used engine is coming from UK. My brother is going to check out the "blown"engine to find out if the diesel fuel overload has allowed metal to be made in the sump (from main and rod bearings).

If not, then we'll rebuild a td6, an dwe'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers all

Pete

[Homestar]

What price can you land a second hand engine for into Aus for? Including and duty and freight?

Cheers - Gav

[jsp]

very interested in this thread. Its the third td6 I have heard of with major fatal issues. Very low number compared to other landrover engines.

[fraser130]

very interested in this thread. Its the third td6 I have heard of with major fatal issues. Very low number compared to other landrover engines.

It did win "engine of the year" a heap of times in europe, and the latest incarnation of it was nearly twice the power with twin-turbos.
Just going from memory, I think the RR one is 138bhp and 390Nm, but they produced and sold the same basic engine somwhere around 225bhp and 510Nm!!!
So ours should be pretty much bullet-proof if looked after.
Edit:
272bhp and 560 Nm!!!

Here (http://www.bmwheaven.com/database/engine.php'type=M57)

Cheers,
Fraser

[Homestar]

Wow, nice figures they get out of them now - if I could trust my trannie, I would definately chip the engine - I'm sure it would be up to it. As JSP mentioned - haven't heard of many issues with these engines.

[fraser130]

Wow, nice figures they get out of them now - if I could trust my trannie, I would definately chip the engine - I'm sure it would be up to it. As JSP mentioned - haven't heard of many issues with these engines.

Just between you and me "that's what I thought" ;-)


But, if you did go for a manual, Boy, could you go a long way!!

But that's what the Classic is for, right?

Could you imagine 272 and 560 in one of these?
Jeeeezzzuussss!

[Homestar]

Could you imagine 272 and 560 in one of these?
Jeeeezzzuussss!

Not wrong - that would be awesome!!! What box do they use on those engines....

But yeah, the Classic is where I will be focusing my efforts/money for a while...:p

[Pierre]

Landed and delivered everything on it engine with 45k miles (70k km) under $5000. Better than Oz.

Interesting point about the versions of the engine, too. I wonder if the uprated engines would be a viable transplant?

Cheers. I'll keep the thread posted as it evolves.

Pete

[33chinacars]

Or even better 210 kw / 286 HP at 4400rpm :):) & 580 Nm at 1750-2250 rpm.:):) Fitted to BMW X5 2007 until present +++++.
Now that would be a nice heart transplant.

Gary

[Pierre]

Easy transplant, successfully finished.

Vehicle is back to running like a clock, but the owner is a bit bleary about the now non-original Range Rover! I told him I'd have it if he was donating it!!

BTW, the original donk ran every white metal bearing surface in its innards...my bro was amazed it had run so long without major rod breakage or piston seizure.... in a word - boat anchor (two words).

Pete

[33chinacars]

So what engine did you end up getting

Gary

[harlie]

I wonder if the uprated engines would be a viable transplant?



From what I read, coms problems, essentially you need the ECU to get the most out of it and the late model X5s have changed their coms. What has been done is transplanting the engine and keeping the RR electronics, i don't know how much X5/RR was used.


Not wrong - that would be awesome!!! What box do they use on those engines....
.....

funny enough, was just reading about these - answer is 6 speed ZF, the diesels didn't get the 8...

In the E70 X5 (2007 on) the 3.0 M57TU2D30 is 2 generations after our rangie engine. The xDrive35d has a handy 210/580 in standard form. that was replaced with the xDrive40d with a nice 225/610. What would they retune to? Unfortunately this version has been discontinued