The 80in gets inspected for rego! Help!

[Summiitt]

The little truck ('52 80in)finally went over the pits today and failed as I didnt expect it to go thru first time, the two main issues are too much play in the steering, I have put all new ball joints, swivels, bearings, etc, is the steering box adjustable?if so, Is it hard to do?
The other minor issue is the front uni joint on the front prop shaft is buggered, I have a swb series 2 one still in the box, anyone know if it will fit? Other than that they were impressed that something that looks so worn is actually mechanically pretty good! Hard work on these little beasts pays off in the end!
Thanks for your help.
Ps I would put up some photos but can't work out how to download images off my iPad,onto this forum?!

[p38arover]

Ps I would put up some photos but can't work out how to download images off my iPad,onto this forum?!

Read the sticky in General Chat on how to upload pix. The subject has been done to death on this forum so a search should bring up the info.

[drifter]

Ps I would put up some photos but can't work out how to download images off my iPad,onto this forum?!

An iPad will only let you load from a URL - like photobucket or something similar if you are using Safari.

[blue_mini]

If you download the photobucket app you should be able to copy the address on app then paste it into safari.
I use that way on my iPhone.

[p38arover]

An iPad will only let you load from a URL - like photobucket or something similar if you are using Safari.

Can't one save a pic to your computer from an iPad just as one does from an iPhone?

If so, then one just uses the Manage Attachments feature below the text box to upload the pic when one creates one's post. No need to use Photobucket or anything similar.

[chazza]

, the two main issues are too much play in the steering, I have put all new ball joints, swivels, bearings, etc, is the steering box adjustable?if so, Is it hard to do?
The other minor issue is the front uni joint on the front prop shaft is buggered, I have a swb series 2 one still in the box, anyone know if it will fit?

Unfortunately the box is not adjustable and the only people left in the world who repair them are in London - Steering Services.

Some owners have had success tinning the bronze nut inside the box with solder and running-it-in on the worm, whilst the solder is still a liquid.

When my box karks it I am going to replace it with one from a S2 or 3. In the meantime have you tried filling the box with Penrite semi-fluid grease, EP140, to take up as much slack as possible?

For the uni-joint measure the diameter of the journals and the distance from end-to-end to see if it will fit. in any case new joints are only about $20 each so it it is no big deal to change them,

Cheers Charlie

[russellrovers]

The little truck ('52 80in)finally went over the pits today and failed as I didnt expect it to go thru first time, the two main issues are too much play in the steering, I have put all new ball joints, swivels, bearings, etc, is the steering box adjustable?if so, Is it hard to do?
The other minor issue is the front uni joint on the front prop shaft is buggered, I have a swb series 2 one still in the box, anyone know if it will fit? Other than that they were impressed that something that looks so worn is actually mechanically pretty good! Hard work on these little beasts pays off in the end!
Thanks for your help.
Ps I would put up some photos but can't work out how to download images off my iPad,onto this forum?!
hi ring me regards steering box on 0428732001 jim

[JDNSW]

As Chazza says. U-joint should fit, but they are cheap anyway. Make sure the steering play is not partly from the box mounting flexing, but I'm afraid that the steering box is probably the problem, and they are difficult to remedy except by fitting a later box (which perhaps could be regarded as a temporary measure while you get the other one repaired). There is a good reason why the box was replaced!

While the most likely wear points are not adjustable, if there is end play on the steering column, this is adjustable. Also, end play on the rocker shaft is intended to be adjusted by selecting gasket thickness on the cover, and you may be able to remove a little free play here. If the rocker shaft has free play in its bush, the bush could be replaced, but unless the journal is pretty much unworn this will not help much. But most of the wear is probably in the nut, and other than the suggestion above, there is no alternative but new parts, which are not available. Or possibly make a new new nut and shaft, but this would involve substantial tooling and machining.

John

[101RRS]

Hi Tim,

Are you in the ACT or just over the border (ie ACT or NSW roadworthy) - where did you take it?? With an older landy, really the only place that might understand the quirkes is Ray Spence at CMW.

If you have replaced all the other moving bits as others have indicated (and you) it will be the steering box. Good luck with it.

Garry

[Lotz-A-Landies]

...
When my box karks it I am going to replace it with one from a S2 or 3. In the meantime have you tried filling the box with Penrite semi-fluid grease, EP140, to take up as much slack as possible?

For the uni-joint measure the diameter of the journals and the distance from end-to-end to see if it will fit. in any case new joints are only about $20 each so it it is no big deal to change them,

Cheers CharlieBefore you replace the box with a later version, just be aware that the column length in the 80" is shorter than the SII/SIIa etc and space in the 80" drivers position is already restricted.

With your uni joints, 80" and SII uni joints are the same however they increased the size of the joint during SIIa, so Chazza's advice to measure is appropriate.

Diana

[Landy Smurf]

i cant remember how it went but s1 uni joints matched a defender or a county or stage one because dad had some spares and they were perfect and s2 and s3 matched either a county or defender its one way or the other but i just cant remember

[101RRS]

Hi Tim,

Are you in the ACT or just over the border (ie ACT or NSW roadworthy) - where did you take it?? With an older landy, really the only place that might understand the quirkes is Ray Spence at CMW.

If you have replaced all the other moving bits as others have indicated (and you) it will be the steering box. Good luck with it.

Garry

There is a concern that my above comments might imply that CMW is 'easy' in doing inspections and my comments might attract unwanted attention from authorities.

This is not the case, indeed the opposite may be the case.

CMW is the only independent landie establishment in Canberra and is experienced landies of all ages. They understand the foibles of our vehicles and know what is design and what needs adjustment or is a defect, where an inspector used to modern vehicles may fail something that is "normal".

With Summits vehicle, CMW will definitely know if the steering box is loose or is as designed.

Ray is also one of the 6 registered engineers in the ACT who can sign off on vehicle modifications.

Cheers Garry

[Bigbjorn]

Unfortunately the box is not adjustable and the only people left in the world who repair them are in London - Steering Services.

Some owners have had success tinning the bronze nut inside the box with solder and running-it-in on the worm, whilst the solder is still a liquid.

When my box karks it I am going to replace it with one from a S2 or 3. In the meantime have you tried filling the box with Penrite semi-fluid grease, EP140, to take up as much slack as possible?

For the uni-joint measure the diameter of the journals and the distance from end-to-end to see if it will fit. in any case new joints are only about $20 each so it it is no big deal to change them,

Cheers Charlie

To tighten up the steering box internals try a product called Molytec ADF (air drying film) described as "'molybdenum disulphide lubricant in an air drying bonding resin". This can build up worn or loose fitting parts. I have used it on loose kingpins with success. Also on the internals of the Gemmer steering boxes fitted to Valiants. Gemmer's tolerances said up to 1" at the steering wheel rim was acceptable but this is not acceptable to Qld. Transport so you couldn't get a Safety Certificate with this much play. Gemmer book says that to reduce this play "selective assembly" may be necessary. In other words, access to factory parts bins to get the bits with the necessary tolerances. So one dismantles the box and coats the loose bits with Molytec ADF which nicely took up the looseness.

Molytec Australia are at 1/9 Steel St. Capalaba, 'phone 07-3245 2355 or 3245 2499.

[Bigbjorn]

The little truck ('52 80in)finally went over the pits today and failed as I didnt expect it to go thru first time, the two main issues are too much play in the steering, I have put all new ball joints, swivels, bearings, etc, is the steering box adjustable?if so, Is it hard to do?
The other minor issue is the front uni joint on the front prop shaft is buggered, I have a swb series 2 one still in the box, anyone know if it will fit? Other than that they were impressed that something that looks so worn is actually mechanically pretty good! Hard work on these little beasts pays off in the end!
Thanks for your help.
Ps I would put up some photos but can't work out how to download images off my iPad,onto this forum?!

It is not unusual to strike trouble when getting a 50-60 years old or older vehicle inspected. The standards were quite different when the vehicle was made. The inspectors are usually tradesmen barely forty years old who have never worked on or driven these old cars and have no knowledge of what they were like and what performance can be expected of the various components and systems.

About ten years ago we had trouble getting a certificate for an Escort Mk2 panel van which had been outfitted as a service vehicle for a rally car. The inspector knocked it back for inferior braking per the Tapley meter. Now the brakes were as good as any other Escort I had ever driven. We went over the system again, replaced the calipers and rotors just for the sake of it nothing wrong with them, checked the booster, looked at the rear drums and linings which had been replaced in the build-up and took it back. Still not good enough. Told him what we had done and that both of us thought it was pretty bloody good for an Escort. Another Escort owner told us of a guy who had been an Escort specialist when they were new and popular. He was a man then in his early sixties who ran a one man general mechanical workshop. The inspector agreed to accompany my colleague to visit this fellow. He took it for a drive and complimented my mate on the "bloody good brakes". He discussed this with the inspector and the guts of the conversation was that Escorts were designed in the 1960's and their brakes were 1960's standard, considered pretty good then, and not up to the performance of modern cars with four wheel discs and ABS etc. He reckoned that our van had nearly the best brakes of any Escort he could recall and there was no way of making them better.

Result- Safety Certificate issued.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The little truck ('52 80in)finally went over the pits today and failed as I didnt expect it to go thru first time, the two main issues are too much play in the steering, I have put all new ball joints, swivels, bearings, etc, is the steering box adjustable?...If you have already corrected the play in the tie rod ends, play in the steering relay on the front chassis cross member and checked for suspension problems like: worn spring bushes, broken spring centre pins and loose "U" bolts, there are a few more items you can attend before looking for a new/overhauled box. Remember that a little bit of movement in a number of different places can add up to a lot of movement at the steering wheel. Steering relay. The steering relay can sometimes become loose in the chassis cross member. With someone in the drivers position rocking the steering wheel slowly, go to the bottom of the relay and place your fingers on one of the four bolts close to the relay shaft (not the ones holding the pressed metal flange to the chassis) and then feel if the bottom of the relay is moving within the pressed metal retainer flange). If there is movement, you need to replace the retainer, on one of my vehicles we made a machined flange the lock the bottom rather than the pressed variety that can bend and allow movement.
Wear in ball race at top of steering column. Check to see if there is wear in the ball race at the top of the steering column. You shouldnt be able to move the steering wheel side to side or up and down in the column. If there is movement, you can replace the originals with oversize balls.
Firewall reinforcement. Most 80" have a reinforcement on the firewall to prevent steering box movement. There is sometimes cracking of this reinforcement. Inspect the firewall inside and outside to check if there is movement or cracking where the two bolts of the steering box mount to the firewall. Repair or reinforce.
Wear in steering box rocker shaft. On the Burman steering box there is a rocker shaft (cross shaft) that connects to the nut inside the box. Again while the steering wheel is rocked side to side, check if there is lateral movement between the shaft and the steering box housing. If yes, you may need to replace the bushes, possibly with undersize bushes to account for wear of the shaft.
Broken steering box housing. The cast aluminium housings have a reputation for cracking where the housing is riveted to the steel column. Check there is no movement between the housing and the steel tube. Replace if necessary.
Wear in steering nut/cross shaft ball joint. Having completed the checks above, take the "D" shaped cover off the outside of the housing (inside the wheel arch). Observe if there is looseness between steering nut and the ball connected to the cross shaft lever. If there is excessive looseness, it may be possible to oversize the ball with spray metal or filling the worn hole in the nut.

[series2110]

Gday Summitt good to see its almost ready for a few coffee drives etc ?

as most areas have passed you have done well.

Defenderly
Peter M

[123rover50]

The hole in the in the bronze nut is lined with a thin steel bush swaged in. I tried replacing this with a replacement but it didnt last. Came out resulting in 1/2 a turn of the wheel lock to lock to get home. If all else fails get an oversize nut from Steering Services in the UK as I did and have someone turn it down to fit the box. It helps if you have a few old boxes to rob shafts from to select the best fit.
Keith

[fc110]

Broken steering box housing. The cast aluminium housings have a reputation for cracking where the housing is riveted to the steel column.

Also corrosion on ally boxes were column is rivetted. Early 80s had cast iron boxes & these in my experience give less trouble wear wise as well.

[JFD]

Hello Summiitt,If your box has the bronze nut see if you can find a steel nut and shaft as these wear less on the thread and also a cast iron steering box. This combination helped me sort out my steering.
Regards John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hello Summiitt,If your box has the bronze nut see if you can find a steel nut and shaft as these wear less on the thread and also a cast iron steering box. This combination helped me sort out my steering.
Regards JohnIf anyone wanted a really usefull item to re-manufacture, the steel nut and shaft would be the thing to make! My 1951 Bemboka has one and it's great.