D4 19inch COOPER Zeon LTZ 255 55 19

[Disco4]

Hi Disco - Would that set be 4 or 5 tyres?

Hi Tiddy - yes, that would be 4 tyres

[doddsy]

I dont have the 19's. But I have been using the 18 LTZ for 3 years. Performance wise they have been amazing. Lots of grip, even in the wet ( not like my old cooper ST) I just replaced a set of 4 after 120,000km. Got them via ebay $275 each. So happy a set is available for 19 inch now.

[chuck]

Bought 2 255 x 55 x 19 in Melbourne recently @ $320 F & B.

Great tyres so far.

Cheers

[letherm]

I dont have the 19's. But I have been using the 18 LTZ for 3 years. Performance wise they have been amazing. Lots of grip, even in the wet ( not like my old cooper ST) I just replaced a set of 4 after 120,000km. Got them via ebay $275 each. So happy a set is available for 19 inch now.

I had Coopers on my old Pajero before I bought the D4. I found the handling on dry roads excellent but I met with understeer several times on corners in wet conditions if I even thought about going above an advisory speed sign speed. How do yours go in the wet in corners? I went through two sets of Cooper ATR's and both had the same issue. It made me a bit wary of Coopers despite them being an excellent tyre otherwise. Maybe I drive too fast :angel:

Martin

[jon3950]

I had Coopers on my old Pajero before I bought the D4. I found the handling on dry roads excellent but I met with understeer several times on corners in wet conditions if I even thought about going above an advisory speed sign speed. How do yours go in the wet in corners? I went through two sets of Cooper ATR's and both had the same issue. It made me a bit wary of Coopers despite them being an excellent tyre otherwise. Maybe I drive too fast :angel:

Martin

Firstly, the LTZ is a totally different animal to the ATR, so its unfair to make a comparison. Secondly, its quite likely a pressure problem - possibly running too high a pressure for the conditions.

For example, I am running LTZs and find the grip in both the dry and wet to be very good. If I put an extra 2psi in the front the grip in the wet falls off dramatically.

Cheers,
Jon

[doddsy]

Agreed, the ST were useless in the wet. The LTZ tyre compound was a totally different beast. I had 1 night in the wet where i had to stop HARD AND FAST . No slip whatsoever. Conversely in 15kmh traffic my ST tyres slid on several occasions. Only bad with my LTZs was noise as they got older.

[~Rich~]

If anyone is interested I have 6 285/60 R18 LTZ's for sale http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread.php't=197843

[Geedublya]

I had Coopers on my old Pajero before I bought the D4. I found the handling on dry roads excellent but I met with understeer several times on corners in wet conditions if I even thought about going above an advisory speed sign speed. How do yours go in the wet in corners? I went through two sets of Cooper ATR's and both had the same issue. It made me a bit wary of Coopers despite them being an excellent tyre otherwise. Maybe I drive too fast :angel:

Martin

ATRs suck. My BFG KM2 M/T are much better than the ATRs I had wet and dry on the bitumen.
In the dirt ATRs where pathetic as well and then they puncture when you look at anything with a bit of a point. Coopers did themselves a big disservice with those tyres as just about anyone I know who had them won't look at Coopers again.

[Mike_S]

Mike - I just rang Tempe Tyres (think they parallel import tyres) and their price was $290 per tyre, plus $20 per tyre shipping to Melbourne.
Cheers,
Rob

Armed with this info, I've just had 6 Pirelli ATR's from the new Bob Jane TMart in Parkdale for $340 a tyre fitted & balanced. :cool:

Shame they don't have a clue when it comes to pressures, across the 4 on the car I had between 35 & 41psi (that was across the front)

Still happy with the price though.

[wbowner]

Hi,
I have been quoted $414 for the cooper ltz 255/55 R19.

Is this a reasonable price.

They do not want the existing Wranglers (done only 12,000km).

I found a place cheaper who will take the Wranglers but that was not local. The money saved would be eaten up by fuel costs.

Richard

[Piddler]

ATRs suck. My BFG KM2 M/T are much better than the ATRs I had wet and dry on the bitumen.
In the dirt ATRs where pathetic as well and then they puncture when you look at anything with a bit of a point. Coopers did themselves a big disservice with those tyres as just about anyone I know who had them won't look at Coopers again.

Agree totally

cheers

[jon3950]

Hi,
I have been quoted $414 for the cooper ltz 255/55 R19.

Is this a reasonable price.

They do not want the existing Wranglers (done only 12,000km).

I found a place cheaper who will take the Wranglers but that was not local. The money saved would be eaten up by fuel costs.

Richard

I paid $395 back in April, in Sydney, without shopping around. So if that's in Canberra its probably reasonable, but certainly not a bargain.

Cheers,
Jon

[wbowner]

I paid $395 back in April, in Sydney, without shopping around. So if that's in Canberra its probably reasonable, but certainly not a bargain.

Cheers,
Jon

Thanks Jon
Not worth the difference to go to Sydney :).
Yep that was in Canberra and unfortunately there are not that many options but I will keep looking.

I had a price of $360 for General Grabbers as well.

Richard

[Weird Al]

Try Tyrepower in Tuggeranong.

They do Coopers for reasonable prices.

[wbowner]

Try Tyrepower in Tuggeranong.

They do Coopers for reasonable prices.

Will do they gave me the best price for Mickey Thompsons a few years ago.

I have just started the hunt. As I will do some travelling soon I may pick up some else where if the price is right but I need to get a feel of the right price :).

Richard

[phl]

Paid $390 fitted and balance past Boxing Day in Lilydale after losing two sidewalls. They were the only set available in a 100km or so radius around Mansfield at the time.

[chuck]

Paid $320 each F&B in Coburg a couple of months ago.

Very happy with them.

Cheers

[wbowner]

Paid $320 each F&B in Coburg a couple of months ago.

Very happy with them.

Cheers

Chuck, was that for the LTZs 19"?

Bugger I was down that way last week.

Did you get a wheel alignment done as well ?

Richard

[chuck]

Yes it was for 255 55 19's.

F&B no wheel alignment.

Cheers

[mottzone]

After agonising over which tyres to replace the original Wranglers (42000km) I replaced them with Cooper Zeons LTZ 255/55/19s. I was seriously considering the Hankook ATs (as well as pirelli scorpion AT) but could not find many reports of their use on D4s

Have just completed a trip towing a 20 foot off road caravan down the Birdsville track and through the Flinders Ranges incl Arkaroola and Chambers Gorge. Also did some of the 4WD tracks in the Flinders without the caravan.

I have to say that the tyres performed flawlessly. No flats.

On road I can not detect any difference in comparison with the original tyres. They do not appear any noisier (Have only done ~ 10000km with them) They coped with the sharp rocks of the Flinders / Gammon Ranges without any obvious damage (No hard core tracks attempted)

I mostly used 32 psi front 35 rear when towing on the gravel and 2-3 psi less on stony tracks without the van.

(The Birdsville Track was generally in good condition although the road from Windorah to Birdsville was a bit rough and corrugated)

[Cantthinkofone]

I've had the coopers for about 5000 miles now and am so far very pleased. Fuel economy is slightly improved over Pirelli scorpions, no noticeable noise increase, dry road handling is good and a little more absorbant than scorpions probably down to increased rubber, not much chance to check wet handling as it hardly ever rains in the uk. I've done a couple of off road events and they've done the job very well, although I'm still learning the ropes so nothing to hardcore as yet. Also they look great, which is obviously the main reason I got them!

[Cantthinkofone]

I've had the coopers for about 5000 miles now and am so far very pleased. Fuel economy is slightly improved over Pirelli scorpions, no noticeable noise increase, dry road handling is good and a little more absorbant than scorpions probably down to increased rubber, not much chance to check wet handling as it hardly ever rains in the uk. I've done a couple of off road events and they've done the job very well, although I'm still learning the ropes so nothing to hardcore as yet. Also they look great, which is obviously the main reason I got them!

[PaulGOz]

I purchased the cooper LTZ a couple of months ago and have used them now in almost all conditions i will ever use a tyre in. On our lap of oz we have done the gibb, cape leveque and a few other side tracks, soft sand, many kms on bitumen and many kms now on good unsealed and bad unsealed roads both went and dry, we have done some rocky step ups etc in the Kimberley.

On the highway they seem almost as quiet as the original wranglers which is very good considering the more aggressive nature of the tread. They seem to hang on well enough in the dry in cornering and braking. In the wet on bitumen I don't think they are anything special they hold on but they are not confidence inspiring and I find myself slowing where I would not have with my previous AT tyres. On dry gravel roads they appear marginally better than the oem wranglers although I have experienced other AT tyres that are a step up again. The same goes in light muddy conditions, the tyre works but I would expect more from an AT tyre. The wear and chip resitance from gravel use is acceptable if not good as some tyres can suffer badly in this area.

As for strength and puncture resistance they are not up to the job. I am firmly of the opinion in hindsight that you need light truck tyres for fully loaded travel on gravel with a van in tow having punctured both rears on different but rocky tracks losing one as it was a non repairable puncture at a cost of $480 to replace it in Broome. I have a tpms so knew they were punctured as soon as it happened. I am now sadly avoiding unsealed roads whilst towing as I have no confidence in the tyre for my needs. The tyres may be acceptable if not towing but dont think they are any stronger than the OEM tyres.

There are 18 inch wheels available and I will go this route with LT tyres for the next trip and set of tyres.

[jon3950]

The tyres may be acceptable if not towing but dont think they are any stronger than the OEM tyres.

Have to disagree with that. I have found them to be much stronger then the Wranglers, which seem to be made of cheese.

I am now on my second set of LTZs and cannot fault them. I have just hit the bitumen again today, on my way home from a trip to Coongie Lakes. Around 3000km of dirt roads of varying quality (plus a few bits of bitumen) in the last 2 weeks and not a single problem. This is on top of several trips to the High Country and a trip to the Flinders in the year or so I have been using them, all without problems.

In my experience, if using appropriate speeds and pressures, these tyres work very well.

However, I agree the 18" LTs are a much better solution.

Cheers,
Jon

[CSBrisie]

Jon, appreciate the feedback just curious, have you towed (camper / off road caravan) with them off road too? (my biggest worry - although I guess the key answer is still the "right" speed and not too much tow ball weight)

[scarry]

Jon, appreciate the feedback just curious, have you towed (camper / off road caravan) with them off road too? (my biggest worry - although I guess the key answer is still the "right" speed and not too much tow ball weight)


And the correct pressure

Just reread jon3950's post again,what he said.

[jon3950]

Jon, appreciate the feedback just curious, have you towed (camper / off road caravan) with them off road too? (my biggest worry - although I guess the key answer is still the "right" speed and not too much tow ball weight)

No, I don't tow off-road - hate it. I like to travel as light as possible as this improves your safety margin. Have towed a car trailer a fair bit on dirt roads without problem, but it's not the same. However, it still comes down to using the right pressure and speed, and driving to the conditions.

Remember though, you can still be unlucky and it only takes one rock to change the equation. A 19" low profile passenger tyre will always have a lower safety margin than an 18" LT in this situation. Therefore the 18" LT is always going to be the better option on rough roads.

In my experience the LTZ is a very good tyre - for what it is. However, it is very important to adjust your driving style to suit off-roading with a low profile tyre. If you do, the LTZ will get you a lot further than you might expect.

Cheers,
Jon

[PaulGOz]

I lost both tyres travelling what I consider relatively slow for the conditions. In my previous d4 without trailer I would have easily been doing 80 to 90 kph on these roads I was doing about 60 kph when I lost the first i was driving very conservatively as i was running low on fuel, and 50 kph when I lost the second I had only just started on this unsealed surface and was still sussing out the conditions and the level of grip available.

My tyre pressures may have been a bit high on the rears. I have a tpms and am getting between 6 and 11psi increases in tyre pressure on the rear i dont seem to be able to find a pressure that only gives 4psi increase when warm I am seeing temperatures up to 60 degrees on the rears as well in 30 deg ambient, the tyres also look very sad at anything under 36psi on the rear so much so people stop me to till me my tyres are flat the fronts seem fine even at 28 psi which leads me to believing it is weight related and i am asking to much of this tyre on the rear. The 17 inch LTs on the trailer seem able to only experience a 4 to 6psi increase and they are carrying a few hundred kilos more each wheel than the d4 rears at similar psi. The fronts get a 4 psi increase if traveling at 110kph on bitumen at recommended pressures and seem much more at ease.

[phl]

The problem I've had the the LTZ has been low pressure on rocky terrain; even though I was going slowly, had two sidewalls ripped due to rocks or staking. That's where the TPMS was invaluable, as both times were unexpected (and we were going so slowly, I didn't feel it).

[jon3950]

Not really trying to comment on your experiences Paul, maybe the load you're carrying is simply too much for them, maybe you were just unlucky - obviously I don't know. Was just trying to point out that I have found them to be a lot better than the Wranglers.

As for the 4psi thing, that may have been a good rule of thumb once (I used to use it myself) but I no longer think its useful for modern tyres. For example, I find the pressures that work best for me on the LTZs give about 6-8psi increases, depending on conditions.

It may be stating the obvious, but it's a critical point. In terms of tyre failure (not puncture resistance), what's important is the operating temperature, not the pressure. Measuring the pressure increase is just an indirect way of measuring the temperature increase.

If a tyre overheats it is prone to failure. The best way to judge this is by feel (unless you carry a pyrometer). Do they feel unusually hot? Has the tread gone soft? If so the pressure is not right for the conditions, or you may just be travelling faster than the tyres can handle in the circumstances.

I know I'm a bit anal, but until I am confident I am running at the right pressures/speed for the conditions I tend to stop regularly and check my tyres for signs of overheating, as well as any excessive sidewall bulge or chipping.

Cheers,
Jon

[phl]

With the TPMS, temperature was fine. 26 psi wasn't...

Too much bagging with sidewalls that can't handle the rougher conditions. We were actually quite lightly laden by that stage, and also bad luck (wet conditions probably made staking a lot easier).

Different way of thinking from using 16" BFG ATs.

[CSBrisie]

re temperatures, I know my Tyre Dog system has warnings for both temp and psi - what should the temp warning be set at on LTZ's? Assume if you hit a certain temp - then maybe pressure is too low??? is that right? ie tyre is working too hard?? you just pull over and let them cool for a while and maybe add a few psi?

[PaulGOz]

I regularly saw 60 degrees on the rear tyres. The fronts struggled to get over 40 degrees most of the time the 2.5T single axle trailer would also only get to about 50 degrees with LT tyres. The pressures didnt seem to make much difference to temps. I could run down to 30 psi on the fronts at speed and still only got to 40 deg sames as I would with 38 psi in them. The rear tyres on vehicle though would rocket to 50 plus deg very quickly and then slowly keep creeping up to 60 deg almost regardless of pressure I.e no difference between 40 psi and 50 psi cold. Temps seemed more related to ambient than tyre pressures. Whilst the pressures just seemed to effect how quicklt tyre came up in temp. There must be some science on this somewhere but I haven't seen or read anything as yet.

[Graeme]

Rear tyres have a hard time when towing especially when the trailer is as heavy as 2.5T even without considering a loose or rough road surface where front tyres throw more rocks and gravel at the rear tyres.

[tony_j_dean]

Why are we paying over $400au for these ( 255/55R19 111H Cooper Zeon LTZ All-Terrain ) but you can get them in US for $217us !?

http://tirecrawler.com/tire/cooper/zeon-ltz/c01410/

[letherm]

Why are we paying over $400au for these ( 255/55R19 111H Cooper Zeon LTZ All-Terrain ) but you can get them in US for $217us !?

Cooper Zeon LTZ Tires C01410 255/55R19 111H BLK 520 A B (http://tirecrawler.com/tire/cooper/zeon-ltz/c01410/)

It's called the Australia Tax. :mad::mad::mad:

[doddsy]

Prices are crazy high here,look earlier in the thread
Though and people are getting them for close to $300.
Usually grey imports, I got my 18" Zeon ltz for $280 a corner on flea bay, from a tyre outfit near Sydney .

[jon3950]

I regularly saw 60 degrees on the rear tyres. The fronts struggled to get over 40 degrees most of the time the 2.5T single axle trailer would also only get to about 50 degrees with LT tyres. The pressures didnt seem to make much difference to temps. I could run down to 30 psi on the fronts at speed and still only got to 40 deg sames as I would with 38 psi in them. The rear tyres on vehicle though would rocket to 50 plus deg very quickly and then slowly keep creeping up to 60 deg almost regardless of pressure I.e no difference between 40 psi and 50 psi cold. Temps seemed more related to ambient than tyre pressures. Whilst the pressures just seemed to effect how quicklt tyre came up in temp. There must be some science on this somewhere but I haven't seen or read anything as yet.

There's plenty of science out there, but the only stuff I've read up on is for competition tyres, where you are trying to acheive slightly different aims.

I've never really thought too much about actual temperatures in road tyres. Thought about it a lot in rally tyres, but then it's the tread temperature that's important. You choose compounds to suit the temperatures so that the tread will work correctly - soft enough to provide grip but not too soft so the tread blocks break down and you lose the edges.

On the road I've always worked on the theory that if the tyre is too hot to touch, you have a problem. I haven't been able to find anything on what the max safe operating temperature is on these tyres, but I would be very surprised if 60 degrees was a problem.

The cause of heat in tyres is friction, both externally through the interaction with the road and internally from deflection of the rubber in the carcass. The amount of friction and therefore heat generated is proportional to the forces acting on the tyre. The magnitude of these forces is determined by speed, the weight of the vehicle and roughness of the road.

From cold, a tyre should gradually heat up until it reaches an equilibrium point where the rate at which heat is being created is equal to the rate at which it is being dissipated. The harder a tyre is working, the higher this temperature will be. Obviously, if the ambient temperature is high, you will be starting from a higher temperature and therefore the operating temperature will be higher. This is only a problem if the maximum temperature of the tyre is exceeded.

If a tyre continues to heat up, then it is not coping with the current operating conditions. You need to either reduce the rate at which heat is being created, or increase cooling.

Reducing the rate at which heat is being created is done by reducing friction, either through increasing pressure to reduce flexing, travelling on a smoother road, or reducing speed or load.

Increasing cooling is more difficult, but things like large, full width mudflaps can cause problems here, reducing airflow across the tyre.

From Boyles Law we can calculate that for an increase in temperature of 10 degrees Celcius, pressure will increase by 1psi. This can give you an idea of what temperature your tyres are. For example if you measured your pressure when cold at an ambient temperature of 20 degrees and they increase by 4psi after running, then they are at 60 degrees. This is the temperature of the air inside the tyre though, not the tyre itself. It is important to remember this too when checking cold pressures, as a pressure measured at 5 degrees will be different to one measured at 15 degrees.

Cheers,
Jon

[matti4556]

My tyre guy just classified my only punctured tyre as "non-repairable". The hole (tear) was just too big. Considering the weight I had on the rear of the vehicle and the condition and size of the rocks, I'm not surprised I got a flat eventually. Every rock out there has a name on it. The rears were very cut up from rocks being lifted/ thrown at them from the front tyres. The sill of the car are like you spent all day poking at them with a sharp knife. The front tyres faired well. But as the tyre guy said, if that's the only thing that broke on the trip then I got away fine ($400 for the tyre - $6K for the total trip) - I tend to agree with him.
And yes, its a completely different mindset driving on low profile tyres. This was on a very fully laden D3.
Matti

[chuck]

I paid $300.00 ea fitted and balanced.

[PaulGOz]

Hi Jon.

Excellent write up I think you have covered it all. I asked for science and you delivered an excellent synopsis of they factores in a form that is easily digested.

My conclusion being the only variable I can really afford to change in the travel I do is the tyre and by tyre I am actually referring to its load rating it needs to be more capable at these loads and I don't think there is anything in 19 inch that goes over a load index of 112 whereas 18s go to 114 for a NSW legal and up to 122 if you are in some of the other states not much more at 114 but it may be enough.

[Graeme]

18s go to 114 for a NSW legal and up to 122 if you are in some of the other states not much more at 114 but it may be enough.That tyre has more going for it than just its slightly higher load index as it is LT construction rather than passenger.

[RoverLander]

I am currently completing a loop of Aus towing a near 3.5t caravan. We have done about 17k kms on the trip. While we haven't done a lot of dirt roads we have done about 800kms of corrugated and rocky roads around Litchfield and from Alice to Kings Canyon as well as numerous dirt roads into camping sites.

I run Hancook Dynapro ATMs 255/55/19 (these are a light truck construction) with a TPMS to keep an eye on things. Front tyre pressure is 36 and rear 46 cold and at about 20c. The front tyres never go up more than 5psi and get to a temp around 45. The rears go up to 52 Psi and a temp 52c. This is when driving at 100kmh on tar on a 35c day.

So far not a single tyre issue (a big touch wood here as there is certainly a degree of luck involved).

Some factors to consider. The Hankooks are a LT construction and are noticeably heavier that the Pirelli ATRs i had previously. I think they are just stronger.

I also went to a weigh bridge before heading off on the trip. I found that the back axle on the car was about 200kg over its rated limited and i was not heavily loaded in the car. The caravan ball weight was 300kg so well under the 350kg limit. It doesn't take much to overload these cars. I went and removed as much weight as i could to get close to the rated axle load limit. I don't have any heavy accessories such as bullbar, long range tank or rear wheel carrier. I do have a second battery system and a front runner roof rack with two push bikes on it.

I believe a lot of tyre problems may be related to excessive loads being placed on passenger tyres. I would be interested to know if others have ever measured their axles loads?

Peter
CORRECTION: the Hankook DynaPro ATM are not a Light Truck tyre as indicated above. I dont know if the load rating is any better than the Cooper Zeon tyre.

[PaulGOz]

I have never checked my weights. Given your experience though I doubt I would be any better placed in terms of load. There are 4 of us in car although we add up to less than 200kg due to young kids, likewise I have no real accessories other than rhino platform rack and second battery in 3rd row footwell. I also carried straps, tools and an engel 60 L freezer in car. The rest of car was stuffedcwith some clothing and other lighterweight items. My towball weight I estimate at about 250kg. I tried to manage this carefully as well by only using rear wster tank and loading jerry cans in rear most positions and using them from front most positions first. When I incurred both punctures I was actually on my lighter side as I was running low on fuel and water.

Another query do you use std hitch and tongue? The mchitch and a longer tongue will place the leverage point further rearwards therefore lifting more weight off front on to rear axle. I am not sur how much this would work out to but another 200mm must have an effect and some simple maths could probably approximate thus. I use std hitch.

I had considered hankook but found them difficult to find they dont seem to have a good dealer network or agents in Sydney.

[jon3950]

I run Hancook Dynapro ATMs 255/55/19 (these are a light truck construction) with a TPMS to keep an eye on things. Front tyre pressure is 36 and rear 46 cold and at about 20c. The front tyres never go up more than 5psi and get to a temp around 45. The rears go up to 52 Psi and a temp 52c. This is when driving at 100kmh on tar on a 35c day.

Sounds like they are working well. Can I suggest you try dropping the front 1 or 2psi? You might find it makes the front end a little less "skatey" - improve turn-in and give you a better ride.


Some factors to consider. The Hankooks are a LT construction and are noticeably heavier that the Pirelli ATRs i had previously. I think they are just stronger.

At 111H, the Hankooks have the same load and speed rating as the LTZs and the ATRs. I don't think they would be LT in that size.


I believe a lot of tyre problems may be related to excessive loads being placed on passenger tyres. I would be interested to know if others have ever measured their axles loads?

Agreed.

Cheers,
Jon

[RoverLander]

Sounds like they are working well. Can I suggest you try dropping the front 1 or 2psi? You might find it makes the front end a little less "skatey" - improve turn-in and give you a better ride.



At 111H, the Hankooks have the same load and speed rating as the LTZs and the ATRs. I don't think they would be LT in that size.



Agreed.

Cheers,
Jon

Jon, I checked the tyres this morning and you are correct, they are not LT and there is no indication they are. My appologies, i should not listen to tyre salespeople next time ;) i will try to edit my original post.

They do have a statement that they are heavy load rated whatever that means. I do know that the tyres are heavier than the Pirelli ATR but i cant compare them to the Cooper Zeon.

I will try to reduce the front tyre pressures a little and see how it feels but it seems to ride and steer fine at the moment.

Peter

[PaulGOz]

Wow 1 or 2 psi. I am surprised Jon did not give you a temp with that. I do agree though I have recently taken a few psi out of fronts. I find it gives a bit more compliance on patchy roads and gives more confidence. On the super smooth freeways in the dry you wouldn't notice the difference but head to a more interesting b road and it is better. I would drive the mrs nuts if I stopped to air down 2psi at a time.

On the LT thing I had found some specs on tyre weights and from memory the dynapro where a few lbs heavier with the UK duratracs a few lbs heavier again. Does this mean a stronger tyre all things being equal? There is also XL I think this just gives a plus 2 load rating so 109 without this and 111 with it.

I have a theory that we may never see higher load ratings in 255 55 19 tyres as there is just not enough sidewall for the higher load ratings we would all feel like we were driving around on solid rubber tyres.

[jon3950]

Wow 1 or 2 psi. I am surprised Jon did not give you a temp with that. I do agree though I have recently taken a few psi out of fronts. I find it gives a bit more compliance on patchy roads and gives more confidence. On the super smooth freeways in the dry you wouldn't notice the difference but head to a more interesting b road and it is better. I would drive the mrs nuts if I stopped to air down 2psi at a time.

Laugh if you want. I find a noticeable difference between 35 and 34psi (by my gauge) on the front. Given the facts Peter had given us, I was just trying to offer a suggestion based on my experiences that I thought might help. It may not. If it doesn't then ignore it, but what you are saying above is the same thing (except about your mrs, it doesn't worry mine :D).

Cheers,
Jon

[TerryO]

One or two psi can make a real difference in how a car handles and reacts to bumps etc. Most people can't be bothered to experiment so drive for tens of thousands of kilometres not happy how their vehicle handles but they just get used to it. So they know no better.

[Redback]

Laugh if you want. I find a noticeable difference between 35 and 34psi (by my gauge) on the front. Given the facts Peter had given us, I was just trying to offer a suggestion based on my experiences that I thought might help. It may not. If it doesn't then ignore it, but what you are saying above is the same thing (except about your mrs, it doesn't worry mine :D).

Cheers,
Jon

I agree to Jon, maybe that racing background gives you a bit more on what the car is doing, I ran 32psi in the D4 pre-bullbar and winch, now run 36psi, just trying different pressure each trip to get the best result, the difference without and now with the bar and winch is very little, although the difference wasn't much anyway, just 4psi made it better again.

The missus can't tell either;)

Baz.

[RoverLander]

Another query do you use std hitch and tongue? The mchitch and a longer tongue will place the leverage point further rearwards therefore lifting more weight off front on to rear axle. I am not sur how much this would work out to but another 200mm must have an effect and some simple maths could probably approximate thus. I use std hitch..

Paul, i put on a McHitch. The only reason was to get some extra height to level out the van. It too wondered about the impact of the hitch point being a little further out. I also wonder if it would impact the Trailer Stability Control system in the D4. I dont have any stability issued so far so hopefully all is good.

Peter

[Markyp]

Graeme

I did ask Goodyear thru their website a while ago & they said no.

We have just commenced construction on a new warehouse for Goodyear & our project manager is also a keen 4x4er so we are waiting to meet the right person to ask the question.

It would be good if we could gather some numbers to see how many people might be interest in the Duratracs.


I know this post has been going a while now but I am off to the UK this christmas and I am thinking of buying and shipping a set over.

if they were available here i would have already fitted them.

[PaulGOz]

Hi Peter

I believe the mitch hitch is the best way to effect a height increase if required. There must be some marginal effect of the hitch point being further behind the axle but it may be very marginal I.e. instability is generally experienced a few km/hr sooner and a few kg more gets lifted off the front its one of those things that perhaps is not really that material in the real world.

Those goodyear tyres look good on paper. I read somewhere the rubber compound may not be suited to our climate I.e. generally hotter and that this is why they don't just import exactly what they already make. I am not sure what thqt means though does it mean it just wears out a little quicker? Id happily take a tyre that wears out a little quicker if it is stronger and doesn't puncture as often.

Paul.

[chuck]

They are available in Africa.

[Graeme]

GY import other sizes, ones they perceive as being more popular.

[Plane Fixer]

Coming back from Brisbane I noticed a bit more tyre noise so I pulled over to find the left rear deflating. I found out there was a stone through the tread (OE fit Goodyear 3/4 worn).
I fitted a set of 5 Toyo Open Country H/T 255/55/19 111V as I had to go the next day to Sydney. I was quite impressed with the handling and smoothness, after I brought them back to the placard figure, as they had 42psi from fitting, and they are very quiet. They seem very solidly constructed. I can't give any details on price or pics as I am back in the jungle in Papua.

[Markyp]

I heard a rumour over the weekend that goodyear are finally planning to bring in 19" AT tyres within the next month. Fingers crossed that this turns out to be true and that they are the DuraTrac's :D:D

[JamesH]

I heard a rumour over the weekend that goodyear are finally planning to bring in 19" AT tyres within the next month. Fingers crossed that this turns out to be true and that they are the DuraTrac's :D:D


Sounds good if its true. Keep us posted if you find out anything.

[wbowner]

I heard a rumour over the weekend that goodyear are finally planning to bring in 19" AT tyres within the next month. Fingers crossed that this turns out to be true and that they are the DuraTrac's :D:D

I will be looking soon
I had settled on hankooks

How good are the dura tracs for towing around oz

Rich

[Graeme]

Tirerack now has the German-made 19" Duratracs listed so maybe GY is starting to push them worldwide.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

My Grabber AT 255 55 R19 are now well over 60K km and are getting close to needing replacement. At least a couple are.

I could probably buy one and pair it with the spare which has never been on the road, but am not completely happy with the road noise after 40K km.

There seem to be conflicting opinions of the Cooper Zeon or Hankook and lack of availability of the Goodyear dura traks.

Before the price skyrockets with the recent plummeting of the Aussie$ what is the consensus.

:TakeABow:

[doddsy]

I've said it before but, I had cooper Zeon ltz, (18 inch) on my last disco. i got 110,000km out of them. When the factory fitted set of tyres wear out on my new disco, that's what I'll put on . Previously had cooper st which were absolute rubbish. So I am not a "coopers" all round fan.

[hibees1972]

For me it would depend on your useage. I have had 4 sidewall punctures with 19inch Zeons at pressures not lower than 24psi. All have been in light rocky situations. Sidewalls are not strong at all and I wouldn't buy again.

Am now trying Pirelli Scorpions at $378 from Tyresales to compare.

People do seem to get good mileage so I guess it horses for courses.

Cheers
Mike

[doddsy]

Have to say I haven't done heaps of rocky stuff, mostly tracks and sand. My tyres biggest pounding is the 3 ton caravan being dragged around Australia.

[Celtoid]

For me it would depend on your useage. I have had 4 sidewall punctures with 19inch Zeons at pressures not lower than 24psi. All have been in light rocky situations. Sidewalls are not strong at all and I wouldn't buy again.

Am now trying Pirelli Scorpions at $378 from Tyresales to compare.

People do seem to get good mileage so I guess it horses for courses.

Cheers
Mike


Hi Mike,


I'm running 18" (285) LTZs on GOE Rims for camping etc, so they haven't had much use in the Kilometres sense but have been on rocks and lots of sand. Thus far they have been brilliant but I guess the size factors in the sand driving stakes.


I was thinking of getting 19" LTZs to replace the OEM Wranglers once they die but haven't heard much about their wet road performance.


I'm obviously interested in the sidewall punctures you have had ... can you supply more details please? As in what you were doing (don't say driving ... LOL), off-road, rocks, etc.


Thanks,


Kev.

[chuck]

I have the 255 55 19 LTZ's.

Wet road performance has been great - no complaints.

[PaulGOz]

I agree wet road performance is fine with 255 55 19 LTZ. I am definetly not a fan of this tyres strength though. I have had two punctures in the rear tires towing 2.5t van over gravel roads one beyond repair and I have a tpms so I knew immediately. I wont tow on any gravel now until I get a stronger tyre. I believe the disco is under tyred from factory check the rear axle load you will have when touring and you will find that there isnt as much safety margin on the load index of the tyres compared to say an lc200. If you go a non lt tyre get a tpms, carry a tyre repair kit, make sure you have a suitable jack and wrench as you will need them speaking from my experience.

[gghaggis]

I'm running the new-pattern Hankook ATM RF10's on my 19" rims at the moment. Early days, but good wet road handling and quiet runners. Supposedly now a stronger construction.

Cheers,

Gordon

[hibees1972]

Hi Mike,


I'm running 18" (285) LTZs on GOE Rims for camping etc, so they haven't had much use in the Kilometres sense but have been on rocks and lots of sand. Thus far they have been brilliant but I guess the size factors in the sand driving stakes.


I was thinking of getting 19" LTZs to replace the OEM Wranglers once they die but haven't heard much about their wet road performance.


I'm obviously interested in the sidewall punctures you have had ... can you supply more details please? As in what you were doing (don't say driving ... LOL), off-road, rocks, etc.


Thanks,


Kev.

Hi Kev,

First 2 sidewall punctures were at Murchison Offroad Aventure park about 55ks east of Kalbarri in gravel/rock (not hardcore but I guess could be considered sharpish rocks) and second set in the Team W4 Challenge in Toodyay a couple of weeks ago.

The LTZs let me down badly in the Team W4 competition with one sidewall with a 2inch gash, the other sidewall puncture I was able to plug (used in excess of 20 plugs over two stages!) to get me through a couple of stages but obviously kept blowing plugs until gash was too big to plug, so had to retire and bring out the D2 with KM2s. Each time was fairly innocuous with no obvious hideous rocks just light creek beds. I may just have been unlucky but I have no confidence in these tyres so have moved on.

On road tyres were great and in sand excellent, but rocks......not good in my case.

Cheers,
Mike

[doyfam]

Hi all

I have just returned from a double Simpson crossing with the Zeon LTZ 19's.

Across the desert at 18-20psi was no problems and the sdv6 was a joy to drive over the dunes.

My problems were all encountered on the gibber country from Dalhousie to Mt Dare at 28-30psi. We weren't going quick however I put a huge bulge in one sidewall and cut another badly. I also somehow managed to flatspot one rim in two places and cant remember bottoming out once.

On the way back from Alice I damaged my brand new spare with another bulge although it is small and has stayed that way all the way home. We did just under 6000km in 17 days across very varied terrain but the LTZ's did not cope with the rocky gibber country at all.

Short story, 3 tyres damaged and at least one rim (haven't had the rest checked yet). I wont be going with LTZ's or 19" rims again.

Cheers

Shane

[doddsy]

I see the Wrangler Duratracs ARE now available in Aus.. Good news.. They ain't cheap tho..
http://www.tyresales.com.au/tyres/goodyear/WRANGLER_DURATRAC

[Gribbsmy13]

The dura tracks look great... But is this a grey import?

[doddsy]

They could be, but I don't think so from tyresales . They are usually ligit. Though I have ordered many grey import sets through Tempe tyres etc without issue.

[sniegy]

Are definately available in Aus, we just purchased 18 tyres this week.
Looks good, little noisier than std but to be expected. Great in the wet.

[Clelo]

Best price I can get Duratrac for in the ACT is $520 a corner
Is this reasonable?

[doddsy]

$431 each at tyresales right now. Limited stock apparently,
http://www.tyresales.com.au/buy/tyre/GOODYEAR/WRANGLER_DURATRAC/255-55R19/106594?q=4

[Clelo]

Thanks I'll chase them up

[Lloydh]

I bought a set of 5 of these to do a Simpson Desert trip crossing both the French line and Madigan Lines the total trip was 5600kms. The tyres were great in the desert crossing both sand and gibber plains at speed with ease and no problems being the only member of the group not to get a puncture. The problems occurred on the way home when I had two tyres get sidewall damage and it also resulted two damaged rims one on a dirt road section and the other going over the bridge at Robinvale. I found another set of rims and replaced both tyres and have done approximately 1500kms on them. This weekend I went 4 wheel driving in the Victorian high country, my first trip out since the desert trip, again the tyres preformed brilliantly on the tracks coping with the rocks with no problems but once back on the dirt road to come home I wound up with two more tyres with damaged sidewalls both on the same side and at the same time, one was one of my original set the other was one of the newer ones. I'm now looking round for a new supplier as I'll be no longer getting Cooper tyres. At $418 each it getting to expensive to keep replacing them and Coopers don't include sidewall damage under their warranty. Note I used to run Coopers on all my previous 4 wheel drives and never had a problem. Its obvious to me now that the zeon LTZs tyres are not up to our dirt roads.

[Geedublya]

It sounds like you are hitting things at speed resulting in damage to the sidewalls and rims, this is hardly the tires fault. The 255 55 19 tires don't have much sidewall. The only way to prevent this kind of damage is to slow down or get a tire with more sidewall height.

Getting something with more sidewall is a problem for 19" rims and you may need to get the GOE 18" rims and run either 265 60 18 or 265 65 18 tires if you want to prevent this type of damage.

[Markyp]

At Last here they are taken at the 4x4 adventure show at eastern creek on the goodyear stand. They are apparently an 8ply construction but not sure if that applys to the side walls.

they are currently selling for $564 per corner but have a special deal on buy 3 get a 4th free total cost $1692. I am sure there are some fairly good bargains to be had out there if you look.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/10/673.jpg (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/Mpottsy/media/IMG_0819_zps04eae30a.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/10/674.jpg (http://s1116.photobucket.com/user/Mpottsy/media/IMG_0820_zpsb1c8a8e4.jpg.html)

[Graeme]

They are apparently an 8ply construction but not sure if that applys to the side walls.That would be 8 ply rating, not actual plies. The tyre will be marked with the number of tread and sidewall plies.

[4evershiva]

hi guys,

I had replaced my front tyres with Pirelli scorpion ATR and now it needs replacing after 30,000kms, I did expect them to last longer. Took it back to Kmart, and the store manager was not able to replace the tyres however, offered the Pirelli Scorpion ATR for $419 fitted. Should I go for the ATR's or the Duratrac? I do a bit of 4wding every now and then both beach driving and terrains like the glass house. The Pirelli ATR's did perform great on sand and dirt but not that effective in mud conditions. Please advise if the Duratrac can handle sand, dirt and mud conditions? Cheers.

[Leo]

4evershiva, the Duratrac has a more open tread so should be better in mud.

[Graeme]

I wouldn't suggest fitting Duratracs full time for only occasional traction advantage if the vehicle does a lot of on-road travel because their tread pattern virtually guarantees faster wearing and more noise. Furthermore in this size there's no user feed-back that their sidewalls are any tougher for rocks than other more road-based tread pattern tyres.

[4evershiva]

Tyresales quoted $403 per tyre for the Duratracs. Goodyear replied that the buy 3 get one free is only in NSW promotion.

[dukemasterpro]

I wouldn't suggest fitting Duratracs full time for only occasional traction advantage if the vehicle does a lot of on-road travel because their tread pattern virtually guarantees faster wearing and more noise. Furthermore in this size there's no user feed-back that their sidewalls are any tougher for rocks than other more road-based tread pattern tyres.


Will be interesting to see how the duratracs fare to save on buying new rims. GOE's plus tyres adds up.
Maybe one day someone will want to swap GOEs with tyres for a nearly new set of 19"s with fresh rubber. :-)

[4evershiva]

Initially i had plans to get the GOE rims plus tyres that costs around 4k. don't have the cash to spend that much as of now. My tyres are defect so had to replace them now. also i though most people went down to 18inch so they have better range of tyre availability. but since the market is opening up options for 19inch, i went to buy new tyres.

[dmdigital]

Replaced the Wrangler HP's with Zeon LTZ's today. Initial impressions after 4km... No difference;)
Thought about Duratrac but was very hard to source up here so went with what was easy to get.

Might go for a drive on the weekend and see how the Coopers go. Certainly look good.

[eddomak]

Tyresales quoted $403 per tyre for the Duratracs. Goodyear replied that the buy 3 get one free is only in NSW promotion.

Called one Goodyear Autotyre place today about the Duratracs and they say they are not aware of the promo. Having said that, they say that the new promo of the same nature will start on 16/11/2015.

BTW, Tempe Types is selling them for $340ea, fitted and balanced. See here (http://www.tempetyres.com.au/tyreproducts.php?goodyear-2555519-111s-wrangler-duratrac-at). Hope this helps someone.

[Celtoid]

Initially i had plans to get the GOE rims plus tyres that costs around 4k. don't have the cash to spend that much as of now. My tyres are defect so had to replace them now. also i though most people went down to 18inch so they have better range of tyre availability. but since the market is opening up options for 19inch, i went to buy new tyres.


The car just drives better on the 19s. I've got both the original OEM 19s and GOE 18s. The bigger, fatter ZEONs are great on the camping trips I've used them on ... mainly sand..... but they just do not drive as well on the road as the 19" Wrangler. They are bouncier and noisier and definitely less direct in corners.


However, the Wranglers are nothing to rave about as a tyre and are crap after about 30 - 40,000 Ks but the lower profile just makes them a better ride IMO.


So I guess it comes down to the ratio of off-road driving you or other owners intend doing. For me I'd be lucky if I get off-road (camping) a dozen times a year :-(

[rar110]

Initially i had plans to get the GOE rims plus tyres that costs around 4k. don't have the cash to spend that much as of now. My tyres are defect so had to replace them now. also i though most people went down to 18inch so they have better range of tyre availability. but since the market is opening up options for 19inch, i went to buy new tyres.

I'm in the same predicament. So 6 mths ago I just bought a cheap set of Winrun 19s from Neta tyres Brisbane to tied me over till I decide for under $600. They look like a Bridgestone tread and are excellent on road & on beach. I really noticed the change from my contis which still had a couple of mm to the wear mark on the front tyres. Much lighter steering and better road grip.

Otherwise RF10s get a reasonably good wrap.

[p38brickus]

I fitted some 275 45 20's to my RRS last month. The speedo is now spot on. They are very quiet on road. I've only done about 65kms on dirt from Corryong to Benambra but it was very easy to have the TDV8 singing and the Brembos doing their thing. It felt very sure underfoot. :)

[Owen]

I Hankook RTF 10s in 255/55/19 and very happy with them, mixed road and dirt use. $280 each. Worth looking at !!

[GlennS]

On Saturday I replaced my old Zeon LTZ's, if I can get 60,000klm out of the new ones as well I will be very happy. Tempe tyres were selling for $299 each fitted and balanced.:)