New Defender: How can it be better than a Pajero?

[ozscott]

Hi all,

I have been reading a bit about the new Defender for 2014 or so, and the concept car can be seen in youtube vids etc. A man from LR said he was impressed that some people thought it was a $70,000 odd car and in fact it would be in the $30-$40k - I assume this is USD perhaps and for short wheelbase.

Anyway it will clearly have great approach and departure angles or both short and long w-base forms. It also clearly has independent suspension. It will be full of airbags and abs etc and it will hardly be light. In the price bracket they are suggesting it seems to me that it will not have air bag suspension and being a defender that probably wouldnt appeal in terms of sheer reliability and simplicity- SO, given that Defendant is the weapon of choice off road for being lighter than D4, better in terms of clearance and ruggedness underneath, with better wheel travel, will defender become a poor cousin to the D4 off road? Will it be virtually the same as a the current Pajero - ie short wheel travel due to independent suspension, average clearance (but probably a bit better than Pajero as standard) that cannot be lifted like the D4 off road due to lack of air bags (and given the inherent problems with permanently lifting independent suspension), and very good traction aids, but no better than the D4 in that regard, and probably not much better than the current Pajero's set up...only front and rear departure angles might be a little better than the Pajero....

Will it be the case that the defender is a great cheap (relatively) off roader in its own right and especially compared to and in the vein of the FJ Cruiser, but will be only marginally better than a Pajero and will likely be embarrassed by a D4 off road....?

Food for thought.

Cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Firstly it's merely a concept car.

Secondly the L660 project is unlikely to deliver a replacement before 2015 and it won't be the LR100 doing the rounds. That information from a member of the L660 development team.

Diana

[ozscott]

Thanks Diana - I guessed it wouldnt be entirely the same as the concept car...the 21inch wheels are a bit of a giveaway :D The point is though if it is going to be at the cheaper end like they say, it will have to be independent suspension without air bags. Unless its going to have the clearance and build of a H1 then how is it ever going to be the off road weapon it needs to be to stay true to Defender?

Dont get be wrong, I am an LR fan through and through, and would love a new Defender down the track, but not if I it is inferior off road to a D4 say, so hence the thread. I would like to see if people in the know, or who know people in the know can add anything or quell (with specifics) my concerns.

Cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

A number of us LR enthusiasts met this bloke on Australia Day at the NRMA Motorfest. He was out here doing research for the L660 project with LRA and was on a free day walking the city when he came across our little collection of Landies in Hyde Park.

In the collection there were Defender 110 and 130 owners, Disco and Range Rover owners and most with several decades of LR ownership or more. He was acutely aware about the iconic shape, the utilitarian use of their vehicles. Our discussions revolved around the capability of the vehicle, the need for vehicles large enough for touring, to be able to be modified as campers etc and he even mentioned that they are even considering going for markets where LC are king like the mining industries.

On drivetrain comments were made about LRs desire to rationalise the powerplants and other drivetrain, so common engines between D4~ are likely but also that the entry level or load carrying cab chassis L660s may not have air bag suspension. Everything is in the mix at present.

What he did say was that under the new owners Tata, there is a new philosophy of expanding the brand and volume into new markets and restoring it to markets lost decades ago. LR is also aware that access to service and spares is an issue, particularly in places like Australia.

The 1990s name "Defender" may disappear.

[MR LR]

It is good to hear that they may do the Defender the decency of not using it's name on the L660. It is also re-assuring to hear that the bloke you spoke to obviously has a feel for what the Defender is used for, i just hope they design a good product.

[tomalophicon]

I saw a picture of the concept and vomitted.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

It is good to hear that they may do the Defender the decency of not using it's name on the L660. It is also re-assuring to hear that the bloke you spoke to obviously has a feel for what the Defender is used for, i just hope they design a good product.The LR100 concept car doing the rounds, is not the L660 project. It is however possible that the LR100 may go into production as an entry level 4WD for the market segment that buys Jeep Rubicon etc.

[MR LR]

I could have read it the wrong way, but it sounds like you are saying a wrangler rubicon is a base 4wd, IMO it is the next most capable 4wd after a defender. I think the DC100 is more of a direct competitor to the FJ cruiser, maybe they should call it the LR cruiser LOL or the L2 (like a H2 Hummer), just so people don't accidentally buy one thinking its a defender. I wonder why landrover don't do their concepts like Jeep does with that Hurricane thingo, at least it looks like it would work offroad, even though it will never be utilitarian. (even yuppies like concept cars that look like that, even if the production car looks like an FJ cruiser)

Cheers
Will

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You expect me to know anything about French/American marques and model names? Maybe I should have said a Honda CRV or Rav 4 or Suzuki whatever etc. Entry level 4WD that you can take to the beach etc.

FJ Cruiser, what about a Soft Rover?

[tomalophicon]

I could have read it the wrong way, but it sounds like you are saying a wrangler rubicon is a base 4wd, IMO it is the next most capable 4wd after a defender. I think the DC100 is more of a direct competitor to the FJ cruiser, maybe they should call it the LR cruiser LOL or the L2 (like a H2 Hummer), just so people don't accidentally buy one thinking its a defender. I wonder why landrover don't do their concepts like Jeep does with that Hurricane thingo, at least it looks like it would work offroad, even though it will never be utilitarian. (even yuppies like concept cars that look like that, even if the production car looks like an FJ cruiser)

Cheers
Will

The Rubicon better bloody be more capable than the Defender considering it has twin lockers and such.

[Loubrey]

You'd think so... but the truth is that with the lack of ground clearance and approach/departure angle, you got to spend a few thousand on a Rubicon out the box to keep up with a Puma 90. This is not just my opinion, but actual testing by European motoring magazines, especially Dutch,French, German and Spanish.

Defenders always receives a bashing for "trim level" and on-road comfort, but nothing compares off road in stock form.

[flagg]

Thanks for your insight Diana. It's great to have someone quoting a primary source rather than heresay and opinion.

[MR LR]

Thanks for your insight Diana. It's great to have someone quoting a primary source rather than heresay and opinion.
I agree

[MR LR]

Yeah Jeeps have trailing arms that are too short, so they lack the cearance and articulation in stock form, a lot of people think they are the best, but as Loubrey has said they don't cut the mustard when compared in stock form. Its better to have wheels on the ground and traction control then a rigid, locked up drivetrain and be parked on your roof.

Anyway lets talk about Landies not Jeeps (sorry i've started it, mums dad is a jeep nut, but dads whle family are landrover crazy, including me lol)

Cheers
Will

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks for your insight Diana. It's great to have someone quoting a primary source rather than heresay and opinion.Hopefully it will be of benefit to both JLR and us users. He seemed glad to be able to meet some real users and not the usual marketing hacks from local LR head offices or chosen celebrity users. We were a bunch of enthusiasts, with a variety of interests and heaps of brand loyalty.

Personally he has been really useful to me, finding out about the build and conversion details of my Reynolds-Boughton/Land Rover Special Vehicles 6X6 Defender. Although the information on lack of spares for the middle axle is a concern. :(

I have already fed back comments on the lack of navigation options for my new D4 with information and links to Hema Navigator and OziExplorer which has now been forwarded onto the team dealing with the audio and entertainment systems. Hopefully we may see future models with off-road navigation and the ability to upload maps.

As someone who has been with Land Rover for several decades John, expressed that under Tata there is a new spirit coming into the marque that wants to build vehicles that customers want rather than what the owners say we can have.

All I can say, is that like most of us, it's now a case of watch this space and see if the bean counters can cruel the Defender development (again).

[VladTepes]

Our discussions revolved around the capability of the vehicle, the need for vehicles large enough for touring, to be able to be modified as campers etc and he even mentioned that they are even considering going for markets where LC are king like the mining industries.

On drivetrain comments were made about LRs desire to rationalise the powerplants and other drivetrain, so common engines between D4~ are likely but also that the entry level or load carrying cab chassis L660s may not have air bag suspension. Everything is in the mix at present.

What he did say was that under the new owners Tata, there is a new philosophy of expanding the brand and volume into new markets and restoring it to markets lost decades ago. LR is also aware that access to service and spares is an issue, particularly in places like Australia.


Cool ! Seems like someone with a bit of common sense for a change !



The 1990s name "Defender" may disappear.


Aaarrgghh !!! No ! What instead ?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The 1990s name "Defender" may disappear.Aaarrgghh !!! No ! What instead ?In fact the question was couched, "what would you think if the next model wasn't called Defender?"

So it seems they are looking for a name that gets away from the notion of building vehicles for armies and building vehicles for people that they can use with all the capabilities we expect and a bit more comfort than soldiers are provided.

[frantic]

It'll be called the Series 8 or S VIII:D or maybe a bit of marketing license and they'll call it the series 10 or S-X ;) I just want the official LR badge.

[Moon.dog62]

I realize that this is kind of an old thread and about this potential new LR but how any one could compare a landie with a pos Mitsubishi is beyond me