The only 4 rotor wankel ever made,,,

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Yep, the mighty Mazda 787 LeMans winner,,,

you WANT to hear this--
How Forza 4 recorded the Mazda 787B, its loudest car ever (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/29/how-forza-4-recorded-the-mazda-787b-its-loudest-car-ever/#continued)

[incisor]

i thought there was a 16 rotor unit for a land speed record attempt?

maybe it was a dream :p

[isuzurover]

???

There are plenty of 4-rotor engines around...

4 ROTOR ENGINE DYNO VIDEO 1664HP 1158lb/ft - YouTube

[stig0000]

thats a factory built 4 rotor,, theres heaps of custom qwad rotors, even mad mikes rx-8 runs a carby qwad rotor 26b i think it is

[Pedro_The_Swift]

this one?:p
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/36.jpg

[rick130]

I think Pedro has shared this one once before.

Mazda 787B onboard lap with Johnny Herbert at Le Mans 2011 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/81zhOQ5PvaE)

[incisor]

nice but not ferrari daytona nice :p

[Ferret]

The Mercedes C111 II was a four Wankel rotary built in 1970. Predates the Mazda 787 by quite a few years.

Mercedes C111 Wankel Research vehicules 1969 (http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/cars_reviews/mercedes/mercedes-c111-wankel-research-vehicule-1969/cars_reviews-mercedes-c111-wankel-1969.html)

[rick130]

The Mercedes C111 II was a four Wankel rotary built in 1970. Predates the Mazda 787 by quite a few years.

Mercedes C111 Wankel Research vehicules 1969 (http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/cars_reviews/mercedes/mercedes-c111-wankel-research-vehicule-1969/cars_reviews-mercedes-c111-wankel-1969.html)

Yes, except the 787 was a very competitive race car and won Le Mans and was then promptly outlawed by the FIA.

There's a huge gap from a test bed to a successful race winner.

[rick130]

nice but not ferrari daytona nice :p

:D

IMO the best sounding race I've ever heard was some old Alfa straight 8 GP car from the thirties that was doing exhibition runs at the Adelaide GP in '91.

Spine tingling sound :eek:

Fangio was running around in an old W196 (I think) too, and that smelt the best :cool:

A combination of castor, alcohol and toxic substances :twisted:

John Goss's XJS Jag from the '84 Touring Car Championship sounded bloody awsome at Bathurst that year too.
It started off with the growl of two straight sixes in stereo, then somewhere around 6-6500 it changed to a scream :)

[Ferret]

....then promptly outlawed by the FIA.

Why was it outlawed ?

[rick130]

Why was it outlawed ?

The cynics would say as it was Japanese and threatened the Eurocentric domination of Sportscar racing, (even though I think the chassis was by either March or Lola ?) but whatever the reason, the rules were changed to only allow reciprocating piston engines.

[edit] according to Wiki, Mazdaspeed, Mazda's motorsport arm were the manufacturer, but the chassis and engineering was done in the UK.

[uninformed]

well in the 70's when cars were toping out just above 400km/h down the Mulsane straight (ie Porchse 917k30 1500bhp Qual and 1000 in race trim) they brought in a fuel consumption limit.....just when Porchse were about to unlesh a engine twice as big with twice the power.........so making restrictions is the organisers way of controling competition in racing to keep it interesting etc.

IMO CanAm was the pinicle of motor sport!

[rick130]

It is said that this years 1000cc MotoGP machines will top out @ 360km/h at Mugello with a tow and a slight tail wind :eek:

[PAT303]

Why was it outlawed ?

It was outlawed because there is no class or rules for wankel engines,they are smaller in capacity but produce the same Hp as bigger four stroke engines so they fit into a lighter wieght bracket but have the same power as the heavier cars so they have a huge advantage,the reason it won. Pat

[Pedro_The_Swift]

It ran in that class quite legally,,

It was outlawed for exactly the same reasons the Nissans were outlawed in Australia,,

It was technically FAR superior to the rest of the field.

cant upset the status quo ,, can we,,
;):oops2::wallbash:

[PAT303]

Each class of vehicle runs an engine capacity limit and a wieght/fuel tank capacity limit to suit each class,the wankel is a small capacity engine but has the power of a larger capacity engine so effectively it had the power of the large vehicles but ran in the small capacity engine wieght/fuel tank size class meaning it was lighter and had a bigger tank.The Nissan GTR's that Gibson ran in Oz are the most expensive touring cars there has ever been at 1 million dollars a piece,more exxy than DTM cars.Considering that the Holdens and Fords at the time were worth $250,000 turn key you would expect the GTR's to win,and like the wankel they were a smaller six cylinder engine so had more power but ran in a lighter wieght class.It's well worth reading up on Fred Gibson and how he developed the GTR,and how Nissan stopped supplying parts because he wouldn't hand over all his work to them for free. Pat

[isuzurover]

Each class of vehicle runs an engine capacity limit and a wieght/fuel tank capacity limit to suit each class,the wankel is a small capacity engine but has the power of a larger capacity engine so effectively it had the power of the large vehicles but ran in the small capacity engine wieght/fuel tank size class meaning it was lighter and had a bigger tank.The Nissan GTR's that Gibson ran in Oz are the most expensive touring cars there has ever been at 1 million dollars a piece,more exxy than DTM cars.Considering that the Holdens and Fords at the time were worth $250,000 turn key you would expect the GTR's to win,and like the wankel they were a smaller six cylinder engine so had more power but ran in a lighter wieght class.It's well worth reading up on Fred Gibson and how he developed the GTR,and how Nissan stopped supplying parts because he wouldn't hand over all his work to them for free. Pat

None of that refutes the statement that they were technically superior and were banned because they upset the status quo.

[rick130]

As far as I can recall under FIA rules, wankel's always used a x2 equivalency formula as they are effectively a two stroke, there's no dead exhaust cycle.

There's probably an article on the car in one of my old Race Car Engineering's, but I can't be bothered digging them out :p

The GTR's ran in the same class as the V8's Pat, with the same weight and fuel limits as they were twin turbo'd.
Again, the equivalency formula.

There were lots of things turned off in them too, they were just too sophisticated for a race vehicle at the time as it costs so much to go testing.
Things like the four wheel steering were never, ever tested, it was locked in place.
A mate of mine spannered on the Bob Forbes/GIO car that Mark Gibbs and Rohan Onslow raced.
They are nice cars.
AFAIK Bob still owns it, and it comes out to play sometimes.

[PAT303]

None of that refutes the statement that they were technically superior and were banned because they upset the status quo.

Technically superior in what way?,they were lighter and had a bigger fuel tank,how's that ''technically superior''?. Pat

[PAT303]

As far as I can recall under FIA rules, wankel's always used a x2 equivalency formula as they are effectively a two stroke, there's no dead exhaust cycle.

There's probably an article on the car in one of my old Race Car Engineering's, but I can't be bothered digging them out :p

The GTR's ran in the same class as the V8's Pat, with the same weight and fuel limits as they were twin turbo'd.
Again, the equivalency formula.

There were lots of things turned off in them too, they were just too sophisticated for a race vehicle at the time as it costs so much to go testing.
Things like the four wheel steering were never, ever tested, it was locked in place.
A mate of mine spannered on the Bob Forbes/GIO car that Mark Gibbs and Rohan Onslow raced.
They are nice cars.
AFAIK Bob still owns it, and it comes out to play sometimes.

The cars ran the same size tyre and were different wieghts Rick,the M3's used to run the GTR's down because of it.Later it changed but the bomberdoors,sierra's,M3's and GTR's all ran different wieghts. Pat

[isuzurover]

Technically superior in what way?,they were lighter and had a bigger fuel tank,how's that ''technically superior''?. Pat

See Rick's post. They were in the same weight class.

So you are saying that an engine which develops more power from a much smaller displacement and wins races against vehicles in the same weight class while using less fuel is not technically superior???

(Edit - just saw your post above - any proof??? - all evidence I can find says the 2600 cc GT-Rs were in the same weight class (4500cc+) as the V8s.

[33chinacars]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

A mate of mine spannered on the Bob Forbes/GIO car that Mark Gibbs and Rohan Onslow raced.
They are nice cars.
AFAIK Bob still owns it, and it comes out to play sometimes.

Is this the one

[rick130]

http://http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=45441&d=1333466071

Is this the one

Yep, that's it.

Fred Gibson built it, and AFAIK it was pretty much identical to the factory cars.

Another mate prepared and race engineered Bob's son, Rodney, in Formula Ford, and Rodney used to take the GTR out for a run occasionally on club weekends, etc. after the two make touring car series started.

[Barefoot Dave]

Low res but no sales pitch for a video game:
Mazda 787b Warming Up - YouTube

Hi res, but warming up with no high revs (above 5000)
787B 4rotor Start and Rev video - YouTube

Those Option Video Loons bring a smile to my face after all this time, 20BT in a AE86!!
20b rotary powered ae 86 - YouTube

Enjoy, Dave

[Pedro_The_Swift]

I love the second vid when it revs up a bit and the crowd cheers,,,:cool::cool::cool:

I clapped in front of the monitor!:p:D

[PAT303]

See Rick's post. They were in the same weight class.

So you are saying that an engine which develops more power from a much smaller displacement and wins races against vehicles in the same weight class while using less fuel is not technically superior???

(Edit - just saw your post above - any proof??? - all evidence I can find says the 2600 cc GT-Rs were in the same weight class (4500cc+) as the V8s.

Sorry but both of you are wrong,the Mazda ran in the lighter class,by almost 200kg. Pat

[isuzurover]

Sorry but both of you are wrong,the Mazda ran in the lighter class,by almost 200kg. Pat

Where is your proof??? (btw - if you read properly you will find we were talking about Nissans, not Mazdas).


Nissan then made the decision to increase the displacement to 2600 cc, and put the car in the 4500 cc class, with the car's weight near-equal to competing cars.

Either way - the bottom line is the rules were changed after superior technology started winning. Bat, ball, etc...

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Ok ,wankel fans,,
how about this?
:angel:

This is what a six-rotor Wankel looks and sounds like (http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/27/this-is-what-a-six-rotor-wankel-looks-and-sounds-like/#continued)

[MLD]

I grew up on a healthy dose of Wankel magic. Mates had 12A and 13B bridge ports, J ports. Not a machine to sneak home quietly at night. Then the turbo made an appearance in the series III RX7. Every mate wanted to jam a 13B turbo into an RX3 or Series I or II RX7. Then there was the much desired RX2 Savana Capella. A good one was worth an annual salary for a young fella on apprentice wages, not to mention the fuel usage of a young lout.

Still have a soft spot for the brap brap and always catches my ear when one drives by. A truly awesome mid life crisis will be jamming a 13B turbo in a MX5. I appreciate it's been done before.

Thanks for rekindling memories of a long ago time.

MLD

[clubagreenie]

The land speed record rotaries (multi-multi rotors) were set-up like the JCB vehicle was a number of engines bolted end to end. The JCB used backhoe 4cylinder diesels (3 I think)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

https://www.facebook.com/HistoricRacingHD/videos/503781816456738/