Diff oil amounts

[Ean Austral]

:eek::eek::eek: Gday All,

Was going to change my diff oil today and read the D3 service manual and nearly fell over when I seen how little amount of oil the diffs held.

Front Diff 0.61 of a litre
Rear Diff 1.1 litre.

Can help but wonder if the reason I have read of so many D3 diff issues is the pittance amount of oil they run.

I originally thought my manual was wrong, but looked on the Uk website and these amounts are correct..You dont even fill them up till oil trickles out the filler hole, you do it by measuring the exact amount of oil..

Oh well next weeks job now.

Cheers Ean

[scarry]

how are you gonna get an exact measured amount in as they are tucked up high under the vehicle?
Can't even see the front one on mine,suppose it must be there somewhere.:angel
Suppose i need to take off the undertray cover & have a peek.

[Ean Austral]

I was thinking of a small funnel and a long piece of hose, a measuring container and stand next to the car and hope it all runs into the diff.

I was just going to put the hose in and keep pumpinp till oil comes out the filler, but that must have been 2 easy for the last 50 or more years, we now have to change to a new method.

Will have a better look into it next week, but would think with those amounts of oil, may change the oil far more often me thinks.


Cheers Ean

[scarry]

So after 50yrs they have decided to complicate things.It makes you think they must sit up all night & try to think of a way to make something as difficult as possible.

Anyway i was thinking a large syringe?

A look on the UK D3 site may give you a few clues.

Good Luck

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Come on Ean,,
all those nights at home now,,
what else are you gunna do?;):D

[Ean Austral]

Come on Ean,,
all those nights at home now,,
what else are you gunna do?;):D

Gday Pedro,

dont worry all those years at sea, the boss had a job list that has more numbers in it that the USA debt.

unfortunately, I am only just starting double figure's on the list..fishing did have some good points...:p:p:p

Cheers Ean

[101RRS]

I was thinking of a small funnel and a long piece of hose, a measuring container and stand next to the car and hope it all runs into the diff.

I was just going to put the hose in and keep pumpinp till oil comes out the filler, but that must have been 2 easy for the last 50 or more years, we now have to change to a new method.

Will have a better look into it next week, but would think with those amounts of oil, may change the oil far more often me thinks.


Cheers Ean

Well don't talk about it - get in and do it - I need to do mine so I need to guinea pig to test options and then to tell me how to do it.

[400HPONGAS]

Ive recently done both of Mine,yep .61 litre is rightfor a front .Allways measure what came out first accurately to double check.This means that the Front fill point is NOT a level point (Used Redline shockproof !)
For the rear, depends on whether Ediff or standard
Same thing as front , fill is NOT a level plug.
1.1L for open and 1.6 Lfor EDIFF (Shockproop for open diff , Royal purple 75 for ediff and Transfer case,)
Best to follow "Bodsy's" little how to do it, from Disco3.co.uk
Just use one of those little Tom Thumb 1 litre oil pumps.

[rick130]

Geez, Shockproof's overkill, isn't it :D

The old Hewland in the race car only took 1 litre or so, and that was for a transaxle (gearbox and diff combined)

I talked to Hewland in the UK and they said 600ml was fine (for less drag :angel:) as I was using Neo 75W-90HD.

Twelve-fifteen lap races aren't quite ten years/300,000km though :twisted:

[400HPONGAS]

If Shockproof is overkill, then wait to you get a look at that "Landrover" diff oil and Landrover ediff/transfer case oil.What then is underkill ??
What does what you stuck in a Hewland Transaxle got to do with it anyway ?

[rick130]

The levels, ie. bugger all.

The correct diff oil should only cost about $24/litre trade from Castrol. (SAF-XO)

[400HPONGAS]

Yeah ? ,now go and try to buy some , Castrol SAF-XO . Cant be bought here , only in rebadged containers from the squealers. Beside why would you , the Redline/Royal purple products are far superior and somewhat cheaper !!!!!!!!

[rick130]

I don't know about 'far' superior, and AFAIK Castrol Oz (used to) stock it, it's primarily a BMW and MAN truck diff oil, but I don't have a BMW or DIII/IV so couldn't be bothered chasing it up.

[bbyer]

Remember the usual, remove the top fill plug before you unscrew the drain plug. It is not so much that the fill plug will not unscrew, but that you may not have the correct wrench.

Early 3's required a hexagonal wrench, (8 mm?), later ones required a 3/8" square drive. There were also different torque settings depending upon the wrench size and if it was the drain or fill plug - a Series vehicle still has some advantages.

Also on the rear differential, there is a large protuding hexagonal plug/thing on the front of the rear differential casing. This is to be ignored. You want the little ones at the rear between the exhaust pipes.

[400HPONGAS]

Rick130,it appears you dont own or operate a D3/4 ? Its obvious from your comments! Things have moved on greatly from the good old days .

[rick130]

Rick130,it appears you dont own or operate a D3/4 ? Its obvious from your comments! Things have moved on greatly from the good old days .

:confused:

Castrol SAF-XO is still available here, I forgot I chased it up for Ean back in November but Castrol had just dropped the 1 litre bottles and it's now only available in 20l drums.

I can't work out why you'd run Shockproof ?

It's overbased with colloidal calcium and is mainly used for circle track and drag racing.
Redline tend not to recommend it for road use, I don't think it would have near the life of a good syn gear oil and may lead to moisture entrapment in a daily driver.

[400HPONGAS]

You still cant buy even the 20Ltr drum over here .
First you say its "overkill" Define overkill ? Does that mean its too good for the intended purpopse ? Will overkill , shorten,upset,harm the diff in anyway ?
With your statement of "I dont think it would have near the life of a good syn oil" you allmost imply that the shockproof is not a synthetic. So seeing its "I" then its purely personal opinion! May lead to moisture entrapment , what ? it either does or it doesnt , its not a maybe.As for Redline not recommending for standard road use (whatever that is ) absolute rubbish ! Read the enclosed PDF .
Do I have any Actuarial or Imperical evidence of whether Shockproof is any better or worse than the oil you would choose , No ,only alot of Testimonials and My private use results.
1 lady driver,that has never been off-road in her life has done over 300,000K without incident in her TDV6 , (Because she is scared of Flying,drives Karratha to Perth return every fortnight 3200K round trip)My Indy has been putting it in all rover front diffs from RRC's to D4's for the last 20 years with no complaints.

[rick130]

What ?

Overkill, as in over the top, not needed, there's more than enough protection with standard additised oils for that application.

Why the word games ?

Trying to justify your purchase ?

If you want to run it, fine, that's your choice, did I ever say you shouldn't ?

As for potential moisture entrapment/entrainment, this is what a very good tribologist advised me once, and he likes Redline oils.

Implying it's not a syn fluid ?
Mate, you are really trying for an argument, aren't you.

Redline in the US and here (ie. Tim Slako) generally recommend their stanadrd and NS fluids for road use over Shockproof.
How do I know this ?
They told me !
I'm aware some WA shops use it, Tim told me about six years ago, and his words were that it's overkill too, but they were happy using it.

I'm done with this BS.

[unseenone]

:eek2: :bat:

[400HPONGAS]

Rick130 , do you know the pricing for REDLINE shockproof and that Csstrol stuff ? So the overkill oil is less than half the cost of the UNOBTAINABLE Castrol stuff .Thats overkill ?
You have not produced the slightest evidence,Imperically,or testimonially to support anything you say other than some Road racer over here told you 6 years ago it was overkill .It is not I that needs to Justify my purchase ,(its justified by price alone) perhaps you sell/flog/recommend another brand.?

[rmp]

There's a discussion to be had here, but keep the emotion out of it otherwise we'll need to close this thread.

[uninformed]

Rick130 , do you know the pricing for REDLINE shockproof and that Csstrol stuff ? So the overkill oil is less than half the cost of the UNOBTAINABLE Castrol stuff .Thats overkill ?
You have not produced the slightest evidence,Imperically,or testimonially to support anything you say other than some Road racer over here told you 6 years ago it was overkill .It is not I that needs to Justify my purchase ,(its justified by price alone) perhaps you sell/flog/recommend another brand.?

since you have been a member, is the first time you have come across Rick talking about oils?

[wardh]

For anyone living in or near Toowoomba Qld.

Castrol SAF XO diff oil is available at the BP depot in Anzac Ave. 1 liter bottles and $12 each. Just did my diffs now looking for realistic priced transfer case oil.

Cheers

Howard

[wardh]

I forgot to add

Changing the diff oil is fairly straight forward if you do manage to obtain the Castrol SAF XO in the 1 liter bottles.

The bottles have 100 mil graduations on the sides and a long spout which extends from the bottle top. You will find that 6 mm nylex tube will fit firmly inside the spout enabling you to add a length about 1 meter long and squeeze the oil into the diff from the side of the vehicle. I did it by feeding the tubing over the top of the tyre and into the diff filler hole.

Keep tipping the bottle back to allow air to re expand the oil bottle back into shape which allows you to read the oil level on the bottle graduations thus calculating what you have added to the diff.

Howard

[400HPONGAS]

Thats nice for you in Queensland,alas they dont want to know about it here in "Wait Awhile" land.
As for for Rick130 , he reminds me of tdi-rick on "Bob is the Oil Guy" Pretty hard not to notice !

[uninformed]

xyz

[Disco_Ben]

Hi Guys,

Looking at changing the oil in the D3 diffs. Does anyone know where to get appropriate oil from in Melb?

Reading this thread, seems like there are a few options, but i have no idea where to start looking..... not sure that I need 20l .......:(

Cheers
Ben

[doddsy]

Diff Oil change

Grab a big oil syringe from super thief auto, ( around $10 ).

The front diff needs exactly 0.6L. DONT fill to the top..

( top tip, make sure your filler plug comes out before you remove the drain plug)

Also check the breather pipe to the diff is not blocked while you are doing the filling ( mine was blocked solid).

Job is quite easy to do.

Got my Castrol oil from Super Thief Auto.

Can't find the rear diff oil though as I have Ediff. If anyone knows please tell me ....

[Jturton]

Diff Oil change

Grab a big oil syringe from super thief auto, ( around $10 ).

The front diff needs exactly 0.6L. DONT fill to the top..

( top tip, make sure your filler plug comes out before you remove the drain plug)

Also check the breather pipe to the diff is not blocked while you are doing the filling ( mine was blocked solid).

Job is quite easy to do.

Got my Castrol oil from Super Thief Auto.

Can't find the rear diff oil though as I have Ediff. If anyone knows please tell me ....
Hey all, is this info good for the D4 also?

[101RRS]

I want to replace my diff oils - do this every 24,000km. Got enough Castrol SAF XO to do the front but will need to get some oil for the rear. The Castrol oil is impossible to get locally (last lot was a freebie) so looking for alternatives that are freely available from suppliers like Supercheap, Repco, Auto 1 or Bursons etc.

So what are people using that is easily available.

Cheers

Garry

[scarry]

Diff Oil change

Grab a big oil syringe from super thief auto, ( around $10 ).

The front diff needs exactly 0.6L. DONT fill to the top..

( top tip, make sure your filler plug comes out before you remove the drain plug)

Also check the breather pipe to the diff is not blocked while you are doing the filling ( mine was blocked solid).

Job is quite easy to do.

Got my Castrol oil from Super Thief Auto.

Can't find the rear diff oil though as I have Ediff. If anyone knows please tell me ....

E diff oil is genuine LR only☹️

[DiscoJeffster]

I purchased online from Sparesbox to get the exact Castrol freely delivered to my door. If you're not in a rush it's a great source of stuff.

[loanrangie]

I purchased online from Sparesbox to get the exact Castrol freely delivered to my door. If you're not in a rush it's a great source of stuff.

Sweet, i have a 10% discount voucher from them to use :)

[101RRS]

The Castrol oil is impossible to get locally (last lot was a freebie) so looking for alternatives that are freely available from suppliers like Supercheap, Repco, Auto 1 or Bursons etc.

So what are people using that is easily available.

Cheers

Garry

My local Fuchs oil shop has Fuchs Titan Sintopoid LS SAE 75w-90 listed for the front diff - anyone used this oil?

Garry

[ozscott]

I have not looks.at.D3 spec. I purchased Penrite Pro Synthetic gear oil for my D2. Not cheap but the original 320,000 diffs should be treated to a nice bath.

Cheers

[justinc]

I use penrite 75w90 progear in d3/4 diffs. Genuine transfer case fluid, and lifeguard in the trans.

Jc

[Ean Austral]

I gave up on synthetic diff oil about 100,000ks ago . I change my diff oil every 10,000ks and am happy to do it that way then try and get more Ks out of a synthetic oil.

Not for everyone but im happy using it.

Cheers Ean

[101RRS]

Thanks for the comments - I will give the Penrite a go.

Ean - I would have thought that with its small 600ml capacity, synthetic would have been perfect for the front diff. So why do you think normal mineral oil is better?

Cheers

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

Despite the cost, I'd only use synthetic even if I change it more regularly. But that's me.

[shanegtr]

I gave up on synthetic diff oil about 100,000ks ago . I change my diff oil every 10,000ks and am happy to do it that way then try and get more Ks out of a synthetic oil.

Not for everyone but im happy using it.

Cheers Ean
Certinly no point in paying for synthetic with those change intervals, and your not going to get any significatly better performance over a mineral oil for that time either

[Ean Austral]

Thanks for the comments - I will give the Penrite a go.

Ean - I would have thought that with its small 600ml capacity, synthetic would have been perfect for the front diff. So why do you think normal mineral oil is better?

Cheers

Garry

Gday Garry

I looked at all the service intervals on the D3 and realised that to my simple view on maintenance they are far to long for my liking. I have cut all my service's down . It's a personal thing and it's been done to death about what are the correct intervals etc etc.

i do all my basic services at 10,000ks including diffs , gearbox between 50 - 70,000 depending on towing and transfer case @ 50,000.

thats just me , plenty have different views which is fine .

cheers Ean

[101RRS]

Hi Ean - I agree - what opened my eyes was when I checked the front diff oil for the first time at about 72,000km and found the oil black with a lot of swarf - admittedly this would have been from the running process when new but there is no way the diff would have survived to its first due service at 240,000km. The rear diff was better but still had a bit of crud in it. In my view these oils should be changed at the first post delievery service.

Since that first check at 72,000km I did them again at 84,000km and while cleaner there was still a bit of stuff in there - probably left over from the the first service. At 96,000km both were pretty clear showing that things were actually OK in there so I have now extended the change interval for both to 24,000km - they are easy to do. The front diff only has the 600 odd mls so works hard and even the rear where it takes most of the drive when on the road works pretty hard.

I can see your intervals working pretty well but I think I would still be putting in synthetic in the front diff - the difference in price between 600ml of mineral oil vs 600ml of synthetic is minimal.

I just wonder how many front diffs get to the first recommended service interval if they have never had the oil changed - given the status of mine and the amount of fine metal material in it at 72,000km I doubt few do.

Now I gotta go out and do mine - ran out of time yesterday due to issues changing the fuel filter.

Cheers

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

Mine was first changed at 200,000km and the fluid didn't smell and didn't have any particulate to note. Since replaced and will replace every 50k km from here. No reason to believe it's suffered from it.

[101RRS]

Just did mine - rear the oil is crystal clear (oh the 1.1l is to the fill hole so no need to measure) and virtually nothing on the magnet pick up. Front was a little milky (not water milky) and magnetic pickup was OK. So for me 24,000km interval for the front is about it - I might change the rear to 48,000km based on what I have seen.

Garry

[justinc]

I'm starting to fit front and rear diffs to d3s now... DON'T leave your diff oils too long. I'd do them and ESPECIALLY the transfer at 50k max. Oils are cheap.

Jc

[LRD414]

I'm starting to fit front and rear diffs to d3s now... DON'T leave your diff oils too long.
I'd do them and ESPECIALLY the transfer at 50k max. Oils are cheap.
Only just read this .... I'm at 76,000 and just about to get the 3 year service done at the dealer.
So I'm already over Justin's 50k recommendation. For the TC, what's the concern/experience & should I be worried?

Cheers,
Scott

[justinc]

Don't worry too overely if long miles and little towing... 75k is still ok. I shouldve added the 50k inyerval is mostly for city and towing etc. I've seen these yransfer case oils at 90k and they are black as engine oil...😐

[letherm]

Don't worry too overely if long miles and little towing... 75k is still ok. I shouldve added the 50k inyerval is mostly for city and towing etc. I've seen these yransfer case oils at 90k and they are black as engine oil...😐

Hi Justin.

Is this a mileage issue or does time come into it too?

3.8 years and only 25k of short city driving.

Martin

[LRD414]

Don't worry too overely if long miles and little towing... 75k is still ok. I shouldve added the 50k inyerval is mostly for city and towing etc. I've seen these yransfer case oils at 90k and they are black as engine oil...😐
Some towing of 1.7t camper trailer, maybe 15k total
Some long trips, maybe 10k total
Rest in city driving

So I think I'll get all three (diffs + TC) changed at service.

Thanks,
Scott

[justinc]

Hi Justin.

Is this a mileage issue or does time come into it too?

3.8 years and only 25k of short city driving.

Martin


Martin i would certainly check your front differential for condensation if your vehicle is prior to 09. The breathers were redesigned due to problems with condensation and rust forming inside the housing

[PerthDisco]

Quick hijack but on subject as I commented in the sticky but not sure if they get read.

For gearbox flush I was told today I should do single drain and fill only and save the money vs dual flush for little extra gain. It's like $1000 vs $650 based on the steel pan. Thoughts?

[101RRS]

The gearbox holds 9.5 litres - a basic drain and refill is 3.5 to 4 litres so with a basic change about 60% of the dirty, cruddy old oil stays in the gearbox/TC unit. A mega flush removes much of this old stuff so when completed it leaves the oil pretty well refreshed.

Garry

[DiscoJeffster]

The gearbox holds 9.5 litres - a basic drain and refill is 3.5 to 4 litres so with a basic change about 60% of the dirty, cruddy old oil stays in the gearbox/TC unit. A mega flush removes much of this old stuff so when completed it leaves the oil pretty well refreshed.

Garry

Agree. I got over 5L out with the pan drop but around 4L with a subsequent drop.

[letherm]

Martin i would certainly check your front differential for condensation if your vehicle is prior to 09. The breathers were redesigned due to problems with condensation and rust forming inside the housing

Thanks Justin.

Mine was bought new in November 2013.

Martin

[justinc]

I get 6 to 6.5 litres back in. And double change not flush, on really bad examples.

[DiscoMick]

If it's warm might it flush better? Just don't burn your hands.

[101RRS]

To ensure the correct level the transmission needs to be between 30 and 50 degrees C.

[PerthDisco]

I get 6 to 6.5 litres back in. And double change not flush, on really bad examples.

So to summarise (rule of thumb) once is enough if the oil is clean but do twice if discoloured?

[Ean Austral]

So to summarise (rule of thumb) once is enough if the oil is clean but do twice if discoloured?

Yes if you are doing it by dropping the oil from the sump only then if that oil is clean then the remaining oil in the system would/should be clean.

Cheers Ean

[PeterJ]

Well, after reading this thread and knowing the car has done 85Mm 60% of it with the van in tow I ended up getting Royal Purple 75W90 for the front diff, RP Syncromax for the transfer and genuine LR019727 (in a Castrol container labeled BOT 720) for the E-Diff. What I was really happy about is that all of the oils looked clean when I dropped them, there was no abnormal smell, discolouration or large particle contaminates on the magnets. Happy days! The cost of the oil from LR is still a bite rude but as others have commented worthwhile preventative maintenance.

Peter