Measures to combat a runaway diesel engine

[tomalophicon]

So I've been thinking today that I'm going to make a simple modification to my Disco in case of a runaway engine.
I was thinking a flappy valve to cut off the air intake controlled via the cabin, but thought it might be more reliable to just plumb a CO2 extinguisher into the system.

Has anyone out there done anything similar who can give me some ideas? :eek:

Or am I being overly cautious (i.e paranoid) :cool:

Tom.

[langy]

Having watched 'Scrapheap Challenge" and seen what happens when a diesel runs away - I can understand wanting a 2nd stop device. However, I once had to run around in my 300tdi with the fuel stop solenoid disconnected. It was sufficient to stall it to a stop with clutch and brakes. It's only a 2.5L after all.

[tomalophicon]

Hi Langy, mine's an auto:(

[langy]

As an experiment, try putting a rag into the air intake. A 300tdi isn't hard to stop. And the fuel cutoff solenoid is pretty foolproof.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You would probably need a number of CO2 extinguishers to do the job.

Probably cheaper to schedule a seal kit for the turbo so it can't get access to an oil source, or even a gate valve on the oil line (not that you'd want to put your hand in there).

[tomalophicon]

At 6000rpm and full boost it would suck a rag straight in I'm guessing.

[tomalophicon]

You would probably need a number of CO2 extinguishers to do the job.

Probably cheaper to schedule a seal kit for the turbo so it can't get access to an oil source, or even a gate valve on the oil line (not that you'd want to put your hand in there).

Definitely a good idea about the seals. But there are other ways for the oil to get into the combustion chamber.

I don't have one, but would a commercial snorkel generally be air tight enough that if you blocked it at the intake it would choke the engine?

[101RRS]

My L series diesel shuts down via a electric shut off solenoid between the injector pump and injectors and I assume other diesels do something similar or cut power to the pump.

Why not just put in another electric fuel shutoff valve before the injector pump that you can manually operate separate to the cars systems. They only cost about $50 and would only require basic wiring to get going.

Garry

[tomalophicon]

My L series diesel shuts down via a electric shut off solenoid between the injector pump and injectors and I assume other diesels do something similar or cut power to the pump.

Why not just put in another electric fuel shutoff valve before the injector pump that you can manually operate separate to the cars systems. They only cost about $50 and would only require basic wiring to get going.

Garry

Hi Garry,
I'm more worried about the engine running on sump oil.
I think the best bet so far would be to restrict the air, but rigging-up a solution that can be employed within, say, 10 seconds of the runaway is the problem :D

Tom.

[Benz]

cutting off the fuel wont help...

to my understanding a runaway diesel occurs when the engine stats burning oil from somewhere.

eg. leaky turbo or oil overfill

[Davo]

Or am I being overly cautious (i.e paranoid) :cool:

Tom.

No. Look up a runaway on Youtube and you can see how awful it would be.

I think something to cut off the intake air was discussed a bit here: http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/143827-2012s-biggest-idiot-kills-engine-death-oil.html

[Dougal]

What has you concerned about engine runaway? It's quite rare. Do you have some extreme modifications or existing problems that increase the chance of it happening?

[Graeme]

I had an air cut-off system on my D2a when I had it. I had the EGR butterfly valve solenoid wired directly to a (fused) 12V supply that was operated by a red button switch mounted in a dash switch blank and also operated electronically if engine oil pressure was lost to cater for a roll-over.

I used the dash-mounted switch as an anti-theft facility too. It allowed the engine to start because the butterfly requires vacuum to operate but then the engine would only idle, cutting-out if the throttle was opened. If the switch was operated with the engine revving, the engine stopped regardless of how wide the throttle was opened trying to supply more fuel.

Edit: The shut-off when no oil pressure was also in case the oil pump bolt let go, in order to immediately cease all engine power.

[tomalophicon]

I had an air cut-off system on my D2a when I had it. I had the EGR butterfly valve solenoid wired directly to a (fused) 12V supply that was operated by a red button switch mounted in a dash switch blank and also operated electronically if engine oil pressure was lost to cater for a roll-over.

I used the dash-mounted switch as an anti-theft facility too. It allowed the engine to start because the butterfly requires vacuum to operate but then the engine would only idle, cutting-out if the throttle was opened. If the switch was operated with the engine revving, the engine stopped regardless of how wide the throttle was opened trying to supply more fuel.

Edit: The shut-off when no oil pressure was also in case the oil pump bolt let go, in order to immediately cease all engine power.

Graeme, sounds great and exactly the kind of thing I'd be keen on doing.
I have no EGR anymore, it was gone before I bought the car, but I suppose there is another way of doing it.

Did you ever have to use it in an emergency?

[tomalophicon]

epic diesel engine fail - YouTube

[bee utey]

Visit a cheapie wrecking yard with your intake hose, find an EFI throttle body that looks like it might fit, remove the closing spring and operate the butterfly with a choke cable.

[centy]

just carry a book or piece of thick rubber cut to the size neede to jam in under air filter.

it does not take much to stop a screaming engine.
while working in a workshop they were converting a gm8v71 diesel truck engine into a blown version for a road stabiliser.
a 350hp monster, it would make the workshop rattle.
well on the test run it ran away and was stopped buy covering the air intake with the detroit service manual..
it turns out the govening system was installed wrong, thats apprentices for you.

a couple pages were chewed but not eaten.

[Graeme]

No, mine was not used in any emergency but I proved that it worked by trying to run the engine at various revs, throttle settings and loads to see if the engine could keep running.

I suspect you could pick-up the throttle body and valve modulator either from someone who has removed them or from a wreckers, either here or ex UK.

[tomalophicon]

Visit a cheapie wrecking yard with your intake hose, find an EFI throttle body that looks like it might fit, remove the closing spring and operate the butterfly with a choke cable.

Great idea. Thanks.

[tomalophicon]

just carry a book or piece of thick rubber cut to the size neede to jam in under air filter.

it does not take much to stop a screaming engine.
while working in a workshop they were converting a gm8v71 diesel truck engine into a blown version for a road stabiliser.
a 350hp monster, it would make the workshop rattle.
well on the test run it ran away and was stopped buy covering the air intake with the detroit service manual..
it turns out the govening system was installed wrong, thats apprentices for you.

a couple pages were chewed but not eaten.

Scary stuff!

[tomalophicon]

No, mine was not used in any emergency but I proved that it worked by trying to run the engine at various revs, throttle settings and loads to see if the engine could keep running.

I suspect you could pick-up the throttle body and valve modulator either from someone who has removed them or from a wreckers, either here or ex UK.

I'll see if the local wreckers has something. Not sure if they'll know what a Discovery is though :)

[Bigbjorn]

just carry a book or piece of thick rubber cut to the size neede to jam in under air filter.

it does not take much to stop a screaming engine.
while working in a workshop they were converting a gm8v71 diesel truck engine into a blown version for a road stabiliser.
a 350hp monster, it would make the workshop rattle.
well on the test run it ran away and was stopped buy covering the air intake with the detroit service manual..
it turns out the govening system was installed wrong, thats apprentices for you.

a couple pages were chewed but not eaten.

AN 8V71 should have had an emergency shutdown flap in the air inlet before the blower. This was standard fitment to Detroit two strokes.

[jakeslouw]

Some of the Jap diesels had a butterfly in the inlet piping.

I'm pretty sure my Nissan TD27 had one. Not really sure what it was for though, maybe a vacuum inducer?

So while I still had the Nissan, I made sure I could use that as an emergency "strangulation device" using a cable.

Trying to find rags for the air cleaner or having the guts to fiddle with a turbo diesel while it's self-destructing isn't high on my wish-list.

[Dougal]

Some of the Jap diesels had a butterfly in the inlet piping.

I'm pretty sure my Nissan TD27 had one. Not really sure what it was for though, maybe a vacuum inducer?

Usually either NOx reduction (less free air = less Nox), fast warmup or a quiet shutdown device.

[tomalophicon]

Jakeslouw, what vehicle is that TD27 from?

[PAT303]

Your finding a solution to a problem that doesn't happen???. Pat

[tomalophicon]

Your finding a solution to a problem that doesn't happen???. Pat

If you say so mate.

[PAT303]

I've seen it once in 20 years working on machinery and it was caused by a bloke overfilling an engine with oil,like filling it too the top.Tdi's die from overheating 99% of the time,spend your money there. Pat

[Bush65]

So I've been thinking today that I'm going to make a simple modification to my Disco in case of a runaway engine.
I was thinking a flappy valve to cut off the air intake controlled via the cabin, but thought it might be more reliable to just plumb a CO2 extinguisher into the system.

Has anyone out there done anything similar who can give me some ideas? :eek:

Or am I being overly cautious (i.e paranoid) :cool:

Tom.
In the USA, where diesels are used in enviroments where there is a chance of fuel in the air, such as oil fields, it is compulsory to have an emergency shut off in the air inlet. These valves are available for after market fitment.

[101RRS]

Your finding a solution to a problem that doesn't happen???. Pat


I've seen it once in 20 years working on machinery and it was caused by a bloke overfilling an engine with oil,like filling it too the top.Tdi's die from overheating 99% of the time,spend your money there. Pat

I would have to agree.

Garry

[Landy110]

Yeah, I've seen it once, in an 80 Series cruiser. The driver dropped the clutch in top gear with the brakes jammed hard on. The vehicle didn't move an inch and the engine revs didn't drop one rev. We ended up cutting the hose that connects to the inlet manifold to stop it.

As a ressult of this the possibility of a turbo fed runnaway has been in the back of my mind. I have another issue though which I have considered may lead to a two birds with one stone solution.

On long steep descents the Deefer tends to run away a bit, once the revs start comming up the turbo tends to push it a bit so I have to ride brakes heavily at times. I was thinking of an exhaust brake, this would prevent the gravity fed runnaway but would it prevent the turbo/oil fed runnaway or would the pressure blow the exhaust.

Alternate option is the throttle body solution pre inlet, would that help with the gravity runnaway though ?

Steve

[Dougal]

Yeah, I've seen it once, in an 80 Series cruiser. The driver dropped the clutch in top gear with the brakes jammed hard on. The vehicle didn't move an inch and the engine revs didn't drop one rev. We ended up cutting the hose that connects to the inlet manifold to stop it.

How can that happen? Was his clutch completely dead?


As a ressult of this the possibility of a turbo fed runnaway has been in the back of my mind. I have another issue though which I have considered may lead to a two birds with one stone solution.

On long steep descents the Deefer tends to run away a bit, once the revs start comming up the turbo tends to push it a bit so I have to ride brakes heavily at times. I was thinking of an exhaust brake, this would prevent the gravity fed runnaway but would it prevent the turbo/oil fed runnaway or would the pressure blow the exhaust.

Alternate option is the throttle body solution pre inlet, would that help with the gravity runnaway though ?

Steve

I have blown turbos before and it didn't cause runaway. It just smoked a lot of blue as at least half that oil will be headed into the exhaust, rather than the intake. While diesel engines can run on liquid oil into the intake, they don't run very well on it, I think you would struggle to drive anywhere on a diesel fuelled that way. Recently due to a provent issue my engine drank about 10 litres of oil via the intake in 1600km. It temporarily ran on it's own oil about 6 times during this dark time.
There is no rush of power and if you combine it with a dead turbo (no boost), you won't be fighting anywhere near the torque of a non turbo diesel to shut it down.

Aside from volatile atmospheres, the biggest cause of runaway seems to be morons cleaning air-filters in petrol or other volatiles, installing them and starting it.
Weeeee. Bang.

If you feel the need to do this, start the engine and then gently install the air-cleaner with it running. You can then easily tell if the engine is going to get high on it.

[weeds]

What has you concerned about engine runaway? It's quite rare. Do you have some extreme modifications or existing problems that increase the chance of it happening?



Or am I being overly cautious (i.e paranoid) :cool:

Tom.

i vote overly cautious....i have been around diesels both at home and at work all my life, yes i am aware of runaways but have never witnessed one or heard of one actually happening. my bet is whatever you fit will be something you will never use.

[400HPONGAS]

Well Ive seen a few ,runaways that is , and everytime they were Detroit Diesel of the 2 stroke variety,and happens just after a sudden shutdown from full load hot condition. In fact the engine actually runs backwards , yes ,so you have to stuff the exhaust with rags to prevent air getting in .All tangentially ported 2 strokes are capable of this !

[cwebb]

It certainly does happen, we just don't hear about it much.

Just last month, on the Ring Road in Melbourne. A 3-5 tonne rental truck (Hertz or Budget) was dieseling itself to death, blocking a lane. The smoke was unbelievable.
This truck looked fairly new and in good condition, so the point is that run-away is a danger in a diesel, and an uncontrolled run-away is even more possible with an auto transmission.

This guy in the truck standning on the edge of the road may not have known how or tried to stall the engine ... he must have been saying 'how much excess is the rental company going to slug me ....'

I will concur that this is still a rare event, we probably have more luck in winning the lotto. However, its not just sump oil that can cause it. When injectors leak (think TD5's), there is a nice concoction of diesel and fuel in the sump that can get going as well.

[Landy110]

Dougal, the clutch would not have been in new condition but he did drive on it for ages after he had the engine repaired.
The problem is that the engine is revving so fast that the clutch just can't grab !

The engine isn't running on liquid oil when this happens, the turbo is hot and spinning fast so the oil is vapourised and mixed very efficiently with air and pumped straight into the cylinder. Believe me, it is an excellent fuel-air mixing event as the Land Cruiser diesel would never reach 10,000 rpm plus with it's normal fuel system. I am guessing at the 10k rpm, it sounds more like 40k in the circumstances but that is just adrenalin.

There was a plume of smoke issuing from the exhaust that was reminiscent of rocket engine tests in the 60's. It was litterally comming out so fast it looked like a rocket. My defender was parked about 20 mtrs behind the cruiser and it disappeared in smoke within about 6 seconds.

Apparently bits of turbo were removed from the inlet manifold but none went into the engine, very lucky, but I bet the old girl never felt or sounded quite the same.

[Dougal]

Dougal, the clutch would not have been in new condition but he did drive on it for ages after he had the engine repaired.
The problem is that the engine is revving so fast that the clutch just can't grab !

I've never heard of that before. Clutches have no problem working at the rpm's that that sport bikes run at.



The engine isn't running on liquid oil when this happens, the turbo is hot and spinning fast so the oil is vapourised and mixed very efficiently with air and pumped straight into the cylinder. Believe me, it is an excellent fuel-air mixing event as the Land Cruiser diesel would never reach 10,000 rpm plus with it's normal fuel system. I am guessing at the 10k rpm, it sounds more like 40k in the circumstances but that is just adrenalin.

Turbos don't vapourise oil, they centrifuge it out against the scroll housing and throw it out as liquid which runs along the intake piping. As I said earlier, I have had one of my diesels do this.

The burn speed of liquid oil isn't fast enough to get 10,000rpm, especially with the pre-ignition of uncontrolled injection. 2500-3000rpm was where my engine would sit and sound bloody awful doing it.

But being a cast steel Isuzu, my engine survives such torture.

[uninformed]

surely this thread is a joke, I mean look at the date it was started......and while there are many wives tales of this mythical run away, how is it ever possible for a good, healthy perfectly sound engine to run away.....I mean, come on!








































:angel:

[Kev the Fridgy]

Yea, I'm with Uninformed, must be a bit of a gee up hey :-)....... one solution.... V8

[Landy110]

Dougal, it happened.
The fuel was cut off because the engine had been switched off but the thing was absolutely screaming, the plume looked like burning oil, it smelled like burning oil, it was burning oil.

I don't care what anyone thinks can and can't happen, I saw it and no amount of theorising by anyone who wasn't there and can't understand it is ever going to convince me it didn't or can't happen.

Uninformed - you are !

Fridgy - Your name indicates you are a tradie. You will have seen stuff that shouldn't happen but did.

[goingbush]

Combustion needs 3 things, Fuel, Oxygen, Heat .

In a runaway diesel you can't take away the fuel or heat so you are left with Oxygen . Putting your hanky over the intake won't work but replace the Oxygen with Carbon Dioxide or Carbon monoxide will work, emptying a load of co2 from a fire extinguisher into the intake will stop it.


I used to weld fuel tanks by running a car exhaust into them, Carbon Monoxide stopped the bang !!

[OffTrack]

surely this thread is a joke, I mean look at the date it was started......and while there are many wives tales of this mythical run away, how is it ever possible for a good, healthy perfectly sound engine to run away.....I mean, come on!

Exactly, every listed cause of runaway boils down to neglect and poor maintenance - over filling with oil, worn turbo seals, and injector failure. Seems like there is a huge amount of effort going into avoiding the consequences of running a vehicle into the ground. :wasntme:

[rovercare]

Dougal, it happened.
The fuel was cut off because the engine had been switched off but the thing was absolutely screaming, the plume looked like burning oil, it smelled like burning oil, it was burning oil.

I don't care what anyone thinks can and can't happen, I saw it and no amount of theorising by anyone who wasn't there and can't understand it is ever going to convince me it didn't or can't happen.

Uninformed - you are !

Fridgy - Your name indicates you are a tradie. You will have seen stuff that shouldn't happen but did.

Don't stress, quite a few here really only have interweb and theoretical experience;)

The thing is with a diesel running on, is it's ungoverned in rpm and will spin a he'll of alot faster than normal

In my own personal actually truly real experience in real life:eek: after rolling a hzj78 up the bush, we winched it on it's wheels, had trouble cranking it then it ran, anyhow told the dude not to rev it, winching with another car it starts running on, what an awesome sound, with the clutch being dropped in all gears it just slipped each time eventually after a few attempts it seemed to catch, but I'm thinking it was drinking all the oil and was getting down on power, anyhow, few bent rods after that

[Bush65]

I had an old VW Golf with a worn NA diesel that used to run away in spurts at highway speed until it had consumed the oil build-up from the crankcase breather.

[uninformed]

hey Landy110, clearly you didnt get my joke....maybe you should go read my thread....it has only had 11,000 views so far :D

[Kev the Fridgy]

Landy, yes your right I have seen way too many things happen that shouldn't, in my younger days I spent 10 odd years involved with drag racing and saw some interesting engine blow ups that were quite strange. Also in my trade, espeacially these days with so called fridgies not understanding what happens with refrigerant when heated or introduced to naked flame. I possibly should have added a grinning icon or such to my earlier post, I had just finished reading "Uninformeds" thread on his runaway and was following on with his humorous reply....... But I will say this, I have only recently joined the site as i am intending to buy a Disco or P38 later this year and reading the various threads have put my mind at ease that it is the right decision so will be hanging around for a while yet :-). As for the runaway diesel, a mate has seen it first hand too, maybe not as severe as some have said here but did happen.

[Kev the Fridgy]

Oh and as for the clutch not grabbing..... I have had brand new High performance button clutches slip before..... in particular if you have too higher RPM and drop in too higher gear at standstill it will slip easy as.... spinning mass/high torque/high HP and good brakes will do it

[Dougal]

As for the runaway diesel, a mate has seen it first hand too, maybe not as severe as some have said here but did happen.

That's nice. But what actually caused it? As already mentioned here by many posters, it takes some quite disruptive events to cause a diesel runaway and they can all be prevented.

BTW, big difference between a clutch slipping and a clutch not slowing an engine down at all.

[Landy110]

Maybe I am not in the best of humour at he moment, got laid off 3 weeks ago and have been searching for work ever since, it gets to a bloke. But yes, if you are having a laugh it always pays to include the laughing icon as simple text does nothing to convey humour.

Dougal and others, yes, maintenance SHOULD prevent this from happening however, how often do you pull your turbo off and inspect it ?

Lets face it, things can let go at any time, even new!

The thing I have not mentioned is that the engine was being revved fairly well climbing out of a muddy creek crossing when the turbo let go so the turbo was revving fast and had been driven for a while so was fairly hot as turbos get. When the seal let go the oil MUST have been vapourised, this is the only explanation for the way it just screamed away.

And yes, the owner was not big on preventative maintenance.

[Blknight.aus]

hey you guys know that you can buy shutdown flaps commercially off the shelf right? they're normally fitted up on diesels that go into refuelling areas and gas works.

Redirect Notice (http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=emergency+diesel+shut+down+flap&start=161&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=YWr&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1600&bih=1068&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsb&tbnid=97gQ7p0L292ggM:&imgrefurl=http://www.mckenziecorp.com/air_intake_valve.htm&docid=At7-ZHXlk3obJM&imgurl=http://www.mckenziecorp.com/air-intake-valve.jpg&w=180&h=190&ei=D66CT9KlD8-ZiAf4zvS1BA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=805&vpy=451&dur=5704&hovh=152&hovw=144&tx=71&ty=63&sig=109667033201076203999&page=5&tbnh=152&tbnw=144&ndsp=40&ved=1t:429,r:36,s:161,i:41)

one of many.

[Dougal]

Dougal and others, yes, maintenance SHOULD prevent this from happening however, how often do you pull your turbo off and inspect it ?

Here is an answer you didn't expect.
In the last 6 months I have removed and inspected my turbo around four times. Including rebuilding it (unnecessarily).

The reason was I had an oil consumption bad enough to cause my engine to run on it's own oil for periods of around 20 seconds at a time. Turned out to be the provent. Oil consumption peaked at 1 litre in 10km.

I have blown a turbo on uphill motorway at full boost. The first thing I noticed was the egt gauge going off the scale, then the rumble noise, then the boost gauge dropped. Turbo bearings and seals were toast, engine started pumping blue smoke but didn't run away.
I popped the wastegate open, drove home slowly, waited for it to cool and then swapped turbos (yes I keep a spare or two) and finally arrived at the party 3 hours late.

[TonyC]

If having a stop valve makes you happy, have a look at these.

Air intake shut down (shut off) valves | Diesel Engines | Chalwyn (http://www.chalwyn.co.uk/EN/auto_air_intake/intake_shutdown_valves.html)

Tony

[voksboy]

This just happened to me yesterday and its not fun at all. I was doing about 130 kph when I fist felt a hiccup. Thought I popped a hose or something. then a few mins later faint back fire then smoke engulfed everything behind me.

immediately said there goes my turbo, then the car accelerated uncontrollably doing 100 tried to shut the engine off and nothing. Revs where at red line screaming! Friend in the back said get ready to bail. Passenger open the door! I stuck the LC 100 in 5th and hit the brakes and made my car stall!

Really scary for me and my passengers. Ran out of the car on the highway, smoke everywhere!

I only learn about the Run Away Diesel problem a while ago. I'm pulling my turbo out later today. I'm hoping nothing happened to my engine, 1HDT 12V

I would like to know how to prevent this from ever happening again. what if my wife was driving. Her car is an automatic turbo diesel pajero. Also my cars are maintained quite well

[dromader driver]

well if you don't have a detroit diesel mudflap to block the aircleaner inlet to hand the contents of a dry powder extinguisher into the airfilter inlet will do it. your of course not running the engine without the filter are you!!! give it lots.

It is a good idea to refill the extinguisher before attempting another start....
:o

[POD]

My first thought with this thread was that it sounds like taking out insurance against falling space-station components. Second thought, hmmm turbo diesel being used hard in extreme climate and remote location.....Murphy is always looking for his chance. I don't know much about diesel gas conversions, but I wonder if this could add significantly to the risk of runaway?
One of those properly built shut-off flap arrangements might be a worthwhile modification for remote travel.

[slug_burner]

these are the two demonstrations of how to stop it, neither would be what I'd expect my wife to do.

RUN AWAY Detroit Diesel! 453-T - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3NRaqgab0_w)

detroit 4-71 in gmc 650 running away start after the 30 years - YouTube

[goingbush]

Everyone caries at least ONE Co2 fire extinguisher right,
I have two in the car & one in the Van.

Unloading a Co2 down the snorkle will stop a Runaway.

they say this is dry chem in the youtube video but it looks more like co2 to me,
dry chem would block the filter more than displace the oxygen

Dodge running away after pull - YouTube



.

[uninformed]

I would say that your chances of pulling over, getting your fire extingisher out and getting the contents down the air intake, all BEFORE termial failure, very F'n slim.

I have experienced run away at 85km/h on a single lane windy road with no shoulder.....Unless you start doing actual practice cenario's like NASA, theres not much you can do....well not as much as from behind a keyboard anyway.

[slug_burner]

I would say that your chances of pulling over, getting your fire extingisher out and getting the contents down the air intake, all BEFORE termial failure, very F'n slim.

I have experienced run away at 85km/h on a single lane windy road with no shoulder.....Unless you start doing actual practice cenario's like NASA, theres not much you can do....well not as much as from behind a keyboard anyway.

yep, most of us would struggle to do more than stop the vehicle and run away.:eek:

[goingbush]

I would not go to the trouble of mounting a FE in the engine bay with the nozzle plumbed into the intake & a cable to trigger it, but would not be hard to do if you were paranoid about a runaway event.

at least its nice to have a fire extinguisher on hand instead of standing around looking like an idiot,

[voksboy]

I would say that your chances of pulling over, getting your fire extingisher out and getting the contents down the air intake, all BEFORE termial failure, very F'n slim.

I have experienced run away at 85km/h on a single lane windy road with no shoulder.....Unless you start doing actual practice cenario's like NASA, theres not much you can do....well not as much as from behind a keyboard anyway.

Exactly, when this was happening we all just wanted to jump out of my rig. If my kid was there or my wife was driving. I have 2 turbo diesels for daily drive. I had no idea what a run away diesel was and even if I read it in a forum I wouldn't have cared.

This may be rare but when it happens hope you're prepared. Thankfully mine was a manual and I'm experienced and didn't panic. Basically got lucky and was able to kill the car.

Now for a new turbo or upgrade an secondly find a cure.

[uninformed]

Exactly, when this was happening we all just wanted to jump out of my rig. If my kid was there or my wife was driving. I have 2 turbo diesels for daily drive. I had no idea what a run away diesel was and even if I read it in a forum I wouldn't have cared.

This may be rare but when it happens hope you're prepared. Thankfully mine was a manual and I'm experienced and didn't panic. Basically got lucky and was able to kill the car.

Now for a new turbo or upgrade an secondly find a cure.

I didnt know how or to stall the engine dead....plus the fact there was another car right behind me.....I knew what I was going to do was not going to end well. I depressed the clutch and keep trying to shut it down, while braking and pulling over as much as I could.

The rest is history

[Dougal]

I would like to know how to prevent this from ever happening again. what if my wife was driving. Her car is an automatic turbo diesel pajero. Also my cars are maintained quite well

Tell her to put it in neutral, stop, put on the handbrake and walk away.

[bee utey]

I still think something like a Commodore V8 throttle body grafted into the air intake would be useful and cheap insurance against runaways. Big red knob on the dash, push for emergency stops.

[jakeslouw]

I still think something like a Commodore V8 throttle body grafted into the air intake would be useful and cheap insurance against runaways. Big red knob on the dash, push for emergency stops.

Yes. Some of the Jap diesels had a mechanical butterfly thingy that was used on some of the electronic control pump IDI engines for some obscure reason, so you could use one of those with a pull cable. TD27T from the Terrano 1 comes to mind.

[bee utey]

Yes. Some of the Jap diesels had a mechanical butterfly thingy that was used on some of the electronic control pump IDI engines for some obscure reason, so you could use one of those with a pull cable. TD27T from the Terrano 1 comes to mind.

I saw one on a Toyota Hilux circa 2000 NA diesel engine, a bit small for a turbo but was solenoid operated, went closed with the ignition off.

[Johnno1969]

Thought I'd throw in my two bob's worth, for what it's worth. I've seen one runaway diesel: a 300Tdi. The vehicle had been rolled and when I arrived to check it out a local "mechanic" had already restarted the engine. I had been planning to check and see where all the oil had got to before sorting it out and attempting to restart anything. The bloke proudly started revving the engine hard to show me all was well, and as I was in the process of yelling at him to warn him not to do it, the engine took off like a 747. It howled like a banshee, louder and louder and higher and higher and I stuck a (very nervous) hand into the engine bay to pull off the fuel solenoid wire, then ducked into the driver's seat, put the vehicle in fifth, planted my right foot on the brakes and let out the clutch. Luckily, it stalled.

The old bloke's face had changed colour by this point. A few minutes later, the owner appeared and I had to explain what had happened without inciting any murders (which was not as easy to do as it is to write).

When the vehicle was (oh so tentatively) restarted later, there was a nice knock in the motor.*

I never worked on that engine later, and I was never aware of any proper diagnosis of the problem - but it definitely ran away like a cheetah on benzedrine.

* Funnily enough, I heard later that when it was stripped there was no damage found. It had sounded to me like there was a dwarf in the sump swinging a large hammer to attract attention from passers-by......

[Dougal]

Yes. Some of the Jap diesels had a mechanical butterfly thingy that was used on some of the electronic control pump IDI engines for some obscure reason, so you could use one of those with a pull cable. TD27T from the Terrano 1 comes to mind.

Early emissions control, throttles the engine a little to reduce NOx at part load. Also works with EGR on some engines and for a softer shut-down.

[JohnF]

If you let air into the fuel line a diesel will normally stop. Do not know how tou would dothis, but you could stop the motor this way.

[uninformed]

If you let air into the fuel line a diesel will normally stop. Do not know how tou would dothis, but you could stop the motor this way.

maybe on a normal diesel....problem is not fuel in most of these cases. Turning the ignition off is shutting the fuel pump off. Its the fact they are now self fueling off excess oil or oil dilution etc. So the only way in my mind is to suffercate it. ie No air/oxygen.

[big harold]

I have seen this before on a Dutz engine. Had a diff cooling pump running of the accessory drive on the engine, shaft seal failed on pump filling sump with oil. Had a young fitter running around like a headless chook. It was a brand new experimental machine. Ended up self destructing.
All of our machines underground have a strangler valve, which is to do what you are trying to achieve. Cheap way is to get a large ball valve and fit to inlet.Mark

[JohnF]

maybe on a normal diesel....problem is not fuel in most of these cases. Turning the ignition off is shutting the fuel pump off. Its the fact they are now self fueling off excess oil or oil dilution etc. So the only way in my mind is to suffercate it. ie No air/oxygen.

I posted after reading only the first page, and page 7 which was the lasyt page, last night, as I had to leave the internet. I did not realise that these engines running out of control was due to them running on crankcase fumes orsump oil when I posted my OPPS post. Today after reading the rest of this thread I have realised my mistake.

Guess it is too late to deleat my post now, so my apologies.