towing tdi auto temperatures and coolers

[DiscoDevil]

Hi All, ive been reading all about p38 coolers and such as my fully loaded disco and cmper trailer has had the overtemp light come on, on really short drives. like flooring it up the hill from st andrews pub to smiths gully shop. 2 km test.

with a hand held laser temp guage when thr light is ont the temps are 110 and 95 either side of the cooler. the new rubber hoses are a similar temp.

could this just be a case of buggered sensor?
can i get a temp guage to fit in the sensor hole instead?

recent work inludes, new trans cooler pipes, full auto service and a good flow test. the disco runs diesel gas, 245 x 75 tyres and a canadin canoe on the roof.

im getting myriad ideas from std cooler fine, to get a bigger cooler etc.. oh and im in melb at the start of a round oz mission! :o

[Discomark]

Hi DiscoDevil,

I used to think the same about a buggered sensor but learned the hard way after the transmission died with only 120k on it. Others may argue but in my view the existing cooler is inadequate when towing and even when driving in sand. The fluid lifespan is significantly reduced once the light has come on as it triggers at 135c from memory which is way to hot for regular mineral based transmission fluid. After the rebuild I switched to full synthetic fluid, fitted the P38 cooler, modified the front grill to improve airflow and fitted a digital temp monitor on the cooler outlet at the gearbox (hottest point). Needless to say it runs a lot cooler now and a recent 25km trip on Stockton beach it never went over 60c whereas the light would always usually come on at some point with the stock setup.
I've also learned to drive in low range on the beach to reach lockup as the temp drops significantly once lockup is achieved. Its also worth doing if you get a really steep hill and can get away with driving at 40kmh ; )
BTW, Some brand new Saudi Grills on UK ebay at the moment which is a rare event.

Check out this fluid temp chart. At 135c (275F) The fluid life is reduced significantly http://www.digi-panel.com/trannyoil.htm

Cheers
Mark

[DiscoDevil]

slight technical hiccup in my preparation it would seem.
im getting a cooler sent over that runs 3/8 pipe. 255x280
http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/Articles/ExtraLarge450(1).jpg

ill get enzed to modify pipes to fit, and replace temp sensor.

i think i might even replace the brand new tyres with standard size to improve time spent in lockup. thoughts anyone?

cheers

[Discomark]

Just be careful with the after market coolers as the ZF4HP22 are said to run full pressure (200psi) through the cooler during lock-up, hence many after market coolers (and hose couplings) are unsuitable as they are not rated high enough. This is why the P38 coolers are a popular choice as they are rated for these sorts of pressures with the appropriate couplings.
Is that a Davies Craig cooler in the pic? I looked at these initially and when i rang them they said they would handle 200psi but I decided to go with P38 one after doing further research.
Cheers
Mark

[DiscoDevil]

the auto guys said they have never had a problem with these for twenty years. Australian made in Qld.

I just have to pull the pipes off now and get fittings sorted, cross my fingers, hold my eyes in acertain gaze, wave at the right landies and hold my dot at the right tension whilst traversing sand, hills or traffic and all will be fine! :angel:

[Discomark]

[QUOTE=DiscoDevil;1657791]

i think i might even replace the brand new tyres with standard size to improve time spent in lockup. thoughts anyone?
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I find that with standard tyres mine reaches lockup at about 80KMH in high range. Its hard to hit 80kmh on a big hill though in a tdi which is why I sometimes drop to low range if i'm off the beaten track, not really practical to do this on a major road though as you top end is only around 40KMH. I'm not sure how much you will benefit from changing the tyres and if they are new it seems quite an overkill for the potentially small gain.

BTW, Assume you are leaving the existing cooler in place as well as the aftermarket? I would if space permits.

[DiscoDevil]

I'll try to get them both in there.

You know the more I think about this the more I'm thinking this vehicle simply isn't up to the task I've intended it for. ( towing one ton camper around oz) Now that I know what a lock up is in an auto trans and this only has one in fourth, well I'm kinda screwed either way. I have to go over eighty or in low range at 40 kmh! To keep the heat out of the trans. So crawling around at sixty is a no go! Great!!

Oh well, I'll see if the coolers change things, but really land rover, what were you thinking!

I might even sell it and get a pootrol.

[tomalophicon]

I'll try to get them both in there.

You know the more I think about this the more I'm thinking this vehicle simply isn't up to the task I've intended it for. ( towing one ton camper around oz) Now that I know what a lock up is in an auto trans and this only has one in fourth, well I'm kinda screwed either way. I have to go over eighty or in low range at 40 kmh! To keep the heat out of the trans. So crawling around at sixty is a no go! Great!!

Oh well, I'll see if the coolers change things, but really land rover, what were you thinking!

I might even sell it and get a pootrol.

Make sure you get the 3.0 :p

[Gaudough]

In my D2a, the auto will lock in all 4 gears, not sure if a D1 is any different.

Regards. Gordo

[justinc]

In my D2a, the auto will lock in all 4 gears, not sure if a D1 is any different.

Regards. Gordo

It is the main problem/ difference between the D1 hydraulic control and the d2 electronic control. D2 can have a lock up and sport mode etc. D1 trans is a dinosaur using no electronics whatsoever.

JC

[Gaudough]

Eye sea.

Regards Gordo

[Tank]

It is the main problem/ difference between the D1 hydraulic control and the d2 electronic control. D2 can have a lock up and sport mode etc. D1 trans is a dinosaur using no electronics whatsoever.

JC
Yes JC, but the Dinosaurs lasted for squillions of years,LOL, Regards Frank.

[PhilipA]

AND they don't stop on the spot if water gets into the electrical connections cause they don't have any.

AND the selector uses a thing called a "rod" and not half a dozen switches that get wet from aircon condensation and again no go.



You know the more I think about this the more I'm thinking this vehicle simply isn't up to the task I've intended it for. ( towing one ton camper around oz)


While it will be a slow trip I cannot accept that a 300Tdi would have any difficulty at all towing a 1tonne camper around Australia. Remember Australia is mainly flat anyway and I would think you could tow at over 80Kmh most places.
If you want more power , then adjust the fuelling and maybe fit diesel /gas.
While my camper only weighs about 600Kg loaded, I have towed on beaches in low range, up the OTT, and through many rivers with my RRC 3.9V8.
My trans has now done 210KK and seems in perfect shape. I always tow on sand in low range to get the torque converter slip down, and use Transmax Z changed regularly. I have never seen the overheat light except when the sensor was drowned in Litchfield and then it came on cold. I do not have an extra cooler.
Regards Philip A

[justinc]

Yes JC, but the Dinosaurs lasted for squillions of years,LOL, Regards Frank.

Correct Frank, I wasn't knocking them:), quite the opposite:D

JC

[slug_burner]

I'll try to get them both in there.

You know the more I think about this the more I'm thinking this vehicle simply isn't up to the task I've intended it for. ( towing one ton camper around oz) Now that I know what a lock up is in an auto trans and this only has one in fourth, well I'm kinda screwed either way. I have to go over eighty or in low range at 40 kmh! To keep the heat out of the trans. So crawling around at sixty is a no go! Great!!

Oh well, I'll see if the coolers change things, but really land rover, what were you thinking!

I might even sell it and get a pootrol.

Pretty sure you can get a mod on the gearbox for lock up in third. I have seen others discussing it on here so do a search or look for a Manuel Automatics in Thomastown;

353 Settlement Rd, Thomastown VIC 3074, Australia
Phone number(03) 9464 5958.

I think these are the guys.

But it means you will have to take your gearbox out to get to the valve body. I don't know if you can get at it in situ.

[goldey]

We have a 98 300tdi Disco with the 4HP22 auto box.

When my old auto box lunched itself, I got a refurb exchange from ATS in Melbourne that had the third gear lockup mod done. Since the "new" box has been in (and we also fitted a larger cooler from the P38 Rover) back in 2009, we have regularly driven on lots of soft sand (live near Stockton) and just completed early this year 17,000k's towing a 1.3 tonne camper trailer around outback NSW, SA, Vic, the Oodnadatta Track, across to Dalhousie Springs and on to Alice and many long k's averaging about 95 - 100k/h on the open road. We also did a month in Tassie during that time, where the roads are anything but flat :eek::eek:.... we got down to 50k/h up many a hill.

Only cooling problem we had was two burst top radiator hoses and a stuffed water pump. The gearbox was and is running perfectly.

Cheers

Goldey

[DiscoDevil]

Cheers guys ive got a new cooler setup and a temp guage on the hot side of the cooler. I hope to get it running tomorow and im sure she will be happy to keep on lumbering around oz.

At the moment its using atf 3, but will look into changing to synthetic at some point.

Just gotta get moving in a forwrd direction first! :D

[George130]

Last time I replaced my cooler I fitted one of these

B&M ENGINE/TRANSMISSION COOLER 11"X1.5"X11" B&M70274 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/B-M-ENGINE-TRANSMISSION-COOLER-11-X1-5-X11-B-M70274-/160471158808?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255cd39018)

I'm also running full synthetic oil with heavy duty clutches.

May look into a second cooler.
I'm also running a oil to coolant unit in there!

Also have a transmission temp guage so I know how hot the box realy is.

[Mikey]

Just been reading this thread with interest and would appreciate if Gordo can confirm that his auto does indeed lock up in all forward gears please.

I have a 99 series 2 disco that had the auto fully rebuilt with heavy duty bits (so I was told anyway) and run full synthetic oil. I have a Madman unit that monitors the auto trams temp, from the pan and after the cooler because I wanted to see the effectiveness of the cooler. (typically 10-15 degrees difference).

The oil is apparently good up to about 180 degrees. I has only ever reached about 130 driving in sand loaded and pulling 1.3 tonnes, yeah I had it in high range with selector in D. Did not take me long to work out this was not a good idea and changed down. Brought home the importance of selecting the right gear as the temperature dropped to around 80 degrees at a slightly lower speed once I had dropped gears.

I do not know if mine being an earlier model locks up in all gears although I have never tried it.

Anyone confirm this one way or another?

Apologies for the long post.

Mike

[George130]

Don't know what is still standard in my box but believe it does lock up in 3rd. In low range mine is superb but I do have a savage low range Normally I have to accelerate on the down hill.

Temp wise my beast runs from 70 to 130. Standard rule when it hits 130 is to pull over and let it cool down.

But then the 4HP22 was not setup to go into a TD5 Defender 130 in the first place.

[Gaudough]

Just been reading this thread with interest and would appreciate if Gordo can confirm that his auto does indeed lock up in all forward gears please.

I have a 99 series 2 disco that had the auto fully rebuilt with heavy duty bits (so I was told anyway) and run full synthetic oil. I have a Madman unit that monitors the auto trams temp, from the pan and after the cooler because I wanted to see the effectiveness of the cooler. (typically 10-15 degrees difference).

The oil is apparently good up to about 180 degrees. I has only ever reached about 130 driving in sand loaded and pulling 1.3 tonnes, yeah I had it in high range with selector in D. Did not take me long to work out this was not a good idea and changed down. Brought home the importance of selecting the right gear as the temperature dropped to around 80 degrees at a slightly lower speed once I had dropped gears.

I do not know if mine being an earlier model locks up in all gears although I have never tried it.

Anyone confirm this one way or another?

Apologies for the long post.

Mike

Mike, my D2a definitely locks up in all 4 gears.

Regards. Gordo

[jimbob292]

Just be careful with the after market coolers as the ZF4HP22 are said to run full pressure (200psi) through the cooler during lock-up, hence many after market coolers (and hose couplings) are unsuitable as they are not rated high enough. This is why the P38 coolers are a popular choice as they are rated for these sorts of pressures with the appropriate couplings.
Is that a Davies Craig cooler in the pic? I looked at these initially and when i rang them they said they would handle 200psi but I decided to go with P38 one after doing further research.
Cheers
Mark

I just upgrade all my hoses to marry up to a goodridge cooler MOCAL - BLUE AEROQUIP HOSE -10 (1/2 METRE) - FBV1000 (http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p3410/BLUE-AEROQUIP-PUSH-ON-HOSE-10-(5/8)-(Per-1/2-Metre)/product_info.html)

No leaks from 10k's all the way up to 140

[DiscoDevil]

Thru a bizarre twist ive ended up with two coolers back to back and a temp guage on the hot side.

Test run went ok, got it to 110degrees after half an hour up a major mountain. Interestingly the light went on at 100degrees! Dodgy sensor.

With the temp guage ill know when to stop for a cuppa. Cheers :)