BAS VNT - ECU tune not required

[twr7cx]

I thought some might find this interesting. I am currently in the process of ordering a VNT kit from Bell Auto Services. I have been dealing with Pete and asking plenty of questions regarding the VNT kit.

I was under the assumption that I would have to purchase his tune to suit the VNT as well, however, after examining the modifications to my vehicle, Pete has informed me that he believes it would provide little additional gain, and would not be worth the added expense of the retune - very rare you find a salesman telling you not to buy more of their products!

He justifies this on the basis that their VNT kit "is designed to work on all cars tuned by anyone or even left standard."

For anyone interested, my vehicle currently has the following modifications:
Serck Motorsports Fast Road Automatic Intercooler (supplied by TD5
Alive/Alive Tuning)
Silicone intercooler hoses
EGR removed
TD5Inside ECU tune applied by an Australian tuner
TD5 Alive/Alive Tuning Turbo Booster Box
TD5 Alive/Alive Tuning MAF sensor (due to the OEM MAF not being able to handle the airflow)
Currently running 20psi of boost
I intend to fit an IRB Developments two channel box to replace the Alive
Tuning Booster Box and MAF sensor. Just waiting on IRB Developments to
respond to me, they haven't been replying...

Based on this, Pete advised "You have all the mods needed already yo fit the turbo and spending more on changing tuning won't gain you that much as you will already have a st2 tune inside."

[davrac]

Thanks for that. Apart from your Alive intercooler all my mods appear to be that same as yours. Should my turbo ever fail I will definately be upgrading to a VNT turbo. I have driven numerous vehicles with these fitted and they are a totally different feel to a regular turbo. Thanks for the info.

Dave

[Mikey]

Hi twr7cx, I just received this past week a vnt from BAS along with their TD5 Boost Box as a kit.

I have also ordered from Allisport a new intercooler and the redesigned cast manifold to go with the vnt from bas.

Add to all of this new silicone intercooler hoses and I am hoping for a much better vehicle to drive and tow with!

I was thinking of selling the 99 Disco 2 but after spending so much fixing things that have worn out or failed for various reasons over the last two years I thought ahh what the hell, lets see what else I can get out of it or improve upon. Besides what else would I buy?

I will let you know how it goes once all of the bits get here and are installed.

Cheers
Mikey

[twr7cx]

the redesigned cast manifold to go with the vnt from bas.

Got any more information on this?

I intended to install my VNT today, but got drunk last night, didn't get my car home until midday and then the engine was hot so couldn't work on it.

[Josh_WA]

I have been in a truck with one of these vnt's and I was super impressed. Way different to my td5 even though it has quite an aggressive tune. I think I will be getting one next time something major goes wrong with the truck or if we ever get a camper.

Cheers

[Mikey]

Twr7cx, if you go to www.allisport.com and click on uprated turbos you wiil see the pictures I have posted here. Bit more info on their website.

I was only looking on their site for an intercooler after talking with Pete from Bas and came across the different manifolds they are/have developed.

I cannot remember how to insert a picture from my hard drive so I have added them as an attachment.

Cheers, hope your head does not hurt too much from last night.

Mikey

Well what do you know the pictures turned out fine.

I forgot to mention one of the pictures is of the Stainless manifold they have/are developing and trialling.

[twr7cx]

So are the manifolds from Allisport or BAS? What sort of dollars? Did you get the cast one? What's the advantage? Looks very similair in design to the original one (as opposed to being tuned length - e.g. when each cylinders pipe is equal length), just a bit less sharp on the bends, but pipes look similair sizes and still mergers the 1 and 2 cylinders and 4 and 5 together first, then merges everything in the center.

[Mikey]

I am getting the cast manifold from Allisport at a cost of 400 pounds, which is less than normal, maybe because I am also getting an intercooler from them as well.

What the final cost in Aussie dollars, delivered will be is still unknown at this stage. Probably will not know until it shows on the credit card statement.

Benefit is better flow but certainly should all but eliminate the manifold warping problem. Time will tell I guess. The proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes.

Cheers

Mikey

[Pedro_The_Swift]

any pics of the inside/bottom of the stainless one?

[Mikey]

Pedro, the only picture I have seen of the stainless manifold is the one I posted. You could always send Allisport an email. From memory I think they said the stainless one was cheaper than the cast one.

I went the cast route because they have them on the shelf and are a proven product, well in the UK at least, I am led to believe.

Mikey

[Fluids]

Is it just me, or does it look like it's impossible to remove the centrifugal filter top with that stainless manifold fitted ? :eek:

[twr7cx]

Benefit is better flow

Got any details on this? Flow tests etc? Looks very similair in design to the original one (as opposed to being tuned length - e.g. when each cylinders pipe is equal length), just a bit less sharp on the bends, but pipes look similair sizes and still mergers the 1 and 2 cylinders and 4 and 5 together first, then merges everything in the center. So I'm not sure how much effect it would have on the flow.


are a proven product, well in the UK at least, I am led to believe.

Details on being a proven product?

I'm not trying to be a *****. I'm genuinely interested in them, but would expect to see some reasoning on the benefits before purchasing.

[Franz]

Pedro, the only picture I have seen of the stainless manifold is the one I posted. You could always send Allisport an email. From memory I think they said the stainless one was cheaper than the cast one.

I went the cast route because they have them on the shelf and are a proven product, well in the UK at least, I am led to believe.

Mikey
Given that the OEM manifold has a flexing problem, would a stainless steel, welded manifold flex less? I'm trying to work out what advantages the SS version would bring to the table?

Cheers,

Franz

[Mikey]

Nope, no real firm details such as recorded flow tests using professional measuring devices/machines etc.

As i said, on it being a proven product as "I am led to believe", verbally, from them saying they have not had any problems or returns as yet on any units sold and I mainly refer to the warping issue here.

I am just an end user. I have never seen or spoken to anyone in person who has personal experience as another end user about any of the new gear I will be fitting to my Disco 2. I only know what I have been told (not much) by the suppliers of the gear I am purchasing and information I have gotten from the internet (again, not much of any substance).

Call me naive or what ever you like but I'm going give it a go. As in most things I do I usually have to go it alone to try new/different products or such. Some work as claimed and some not so much, so be it. I generally try to gather as much information as i can, substantiated or not and make decisions based on that.

Will post here with my own laymans experience once items are fitted and taken for a drive if you wish.

Cheers,
Mikey

[twr7cx]

Given that the OEM manifold has a flexing problem

Does the OEM manifold have a warping problem after the webs have been removed? From what I understood it was only occurring on the standard manifolds, but once butchered a bit to remove the webbing between each pipe they were fine?

[Mikey]

Twr7cx, my manifold warped initially sometime after I had a Bruce Davis ecu upgrade done.

The first I noticed was when I was towing my Camper back from a trip and was driving through a prolonged hilly section and it was struggling to hold any sort of momentum up the hills with the throttle close to being nailed to the floor.

I also had fuel cutout issues at the same time which I thought was the "real" issue. Turns out this issue was caused by the boost modulator failing but it did get me under the bonnet where I noticed the exhaust manifold was leaking and was found to be warped.

Anyway the manifold was stripped off, machined and the webbing ground out to relieve the stresses at a local Land Rover specialist. The snapped manifold bolts were replaced with standard ones.

Recently while trying to track down an unusual noise, I yet again found the manifold to be leaking and three manifold nuts missing entirely. All located around cylinder five. Two on top and one on the bottom. Of course its going to leak with no nuts securing the manifold to the head but I was surprised to find the exhaust leaking from around cylinders 1-3 as well and these nuts were all tight.

When I myself took the manifold off this time and checked it for straightness I was disappointed but not surprised to find it had warped again. This led me to seek out an alternative because I do not want to have this issue repeatedly. I am no exhaust expert but from the little I do know about this issue and the causes I believe that the new cast manifold will be beneficial in solving this problem.

I have been informed by BAS that fitment of the vnt will also go some way to relieving the exhaust heat issue although I do not understand how this is achieved. Anyone care to enlighten me how fitting a vnt helps to lower the exhaust manifold temperature?

Cheers,
Mikey

PS. Twr7cx, it sounds like your disco is quite a rig. Any thoughts on a different torque convertor for the auto such as the heavy duty units being offered by Ashcroft in the UK?

[slug_burner]

Twr7cx, my manifold warped initially sometime after I had a Bruce Davis ecu upgrade done.

The first I noticed was when I was towing my Camper back from a trip and was driving through a prolonged hilly section and it was struggling to hold any sort of momentum up the hills with the throttle close to being nailed to the floor.

I also had fuel cutout issues at the same time which I thought was the "real" issue. Turns out this issue was caused by the boost modulator failing but it did get me under the bonnet where I noticed the exhaust manifold was leaking and was found to be warped.

Anyway the manifold was stripped off, machined and the webbing ground out to relieve the stresses at a local Land Rover specialist. The snapped manifold bolts were replaced with standard ones.

Recently while trying to track down an unusual noise, I yet again found the manifold to be leaking and three manifold nuts missing entirely. All located around cylinder five. Two on top and one on the bottom. Of course its going to leak with no nuts securing the manifold to the head but I was surprised to find the exhaust leaking from around cylinders 1-3 as well and these nuts were all tight.

When I myself took the manifold off this time and checked it for straightness I was disappointed but not surprised to find it had warped again. This led me to seek out an alternative because I do not want to have this issue repeatedly. I am no exhaust expert but from the little I do know about this issue and the causes I believe that the new cast manifold will be beneficial in solving this problem.

I have been informed by BAS that fitment of the vnt will also go some way to relieving the exhaust heat issue although I do not understand how this is achieved. Anyone care to enlighten me how fitting a vnt helps to lower the exhaust manifold temperature?

Cheers,
Mikey

PS. Twr7cx, it sounds like your disco is quite a rig. Any thoughts on a different torque convertor for the auto such as the heavy duty units being offered by Ashcroft in the UK?

I think that by pushing extra air through the combustion chamber you should get a drop in EGT.

[twr7cx]

PS. Twr7cx, it sounds like your disco is quite a rig. Any thoughts on a different torque convertor for the auto such as the heavy duty units being offered by Ashcroft in the UK?

I have one sitting in a box on the floor of my garage waiting to be fitted! Just waiting for time to drop the gearbox - I have some leave in 6 weeks...

[twr7cx]

I think that by pushing extra air through the combustion chamber you should get a drop in EGT.

Pretty much. More air should lead to a leaner combustion. The VNT is pushing more air into the combusion chamber at lower RPM's than the standard turbo would. Your accelerator pedal controls the fuel being put in, not the air (unlike a petrol motor). So essentially you should have at the same accelerator level, the same amount of fuel going in, but more air going in, resulting in a leaner running condition. This is a fairly simple view and doesn't take into account any changes that the ECU and it's sensors may do when they detect more air in. From what I have been told diesels are the opposite of petrol motors in that leaner is cooler (unlike petrol where it is hotter).

[Mikey]

Twr7cx, you are a couple of steps in front of me in the development of your vehicle which I think is a good thing :D, as long as you post the results so I can learn from those that go before me :p.

I think I may need to have a more in depth chat with you! Seems like our vehicles are similar along with the development of the vehicles.

I was going to ask if I could offer any assistance and learn a thing or two when you drop your box to fit the new torque convertor but when I looked where you are located I thought better of it, you are just a bit far away for me to consider that!

Cheers,
Mikey

[td5inside]

Hi,

If you have on of our remaps, we will be more than glad to provide you an improved map file - to suit your VNT turbo at no cost!

Drop us an email on td5inside@gmail.com!

Regards,