For the Mil enthusiasts. Navy Cerberus

[land864]

Currently staying with a friend up on the Hawkesbury at Berowra Waters.

A few years back this old girl caught my eye because of her classic lines.

I have struggled to find any history on her.

Does anyone know what type or class of boat she would be?

She is named Cerberus and has an RAN numbered plate inside.

She is currently in a fairly sad state:(

If my numbers came up I would be sorely tempted to try and buy her and restore her for histories sake.

I have been touch with the RAN historical society and the HMAS Cerberus base society to no avail.


Any contacts or suggestions on finding out some info would be greatly appreciated.

Pete

[101RRS]

That is a 33ft general utility boat - also in a 26ft version and also another 33ft version that was open and used as a seaboat for general use on larger ships.

I you look at 70s and 80s pics of larger RAN warships you may see them on davits - eg Melbourne, Supply and Stalwart.

In establishments such as Cerberus, Creswell and those in Sydney Harbour would have had them for general use and training.

These were twin engined and would do about 25-30knots. The 26footers were single engine.

There is also another 40 footer that had a cabin fwd and another aft but has a different hull.

These were not named and the boat in the pic was most likey named afterwards as it may have come from HMAS Cerberus.

They were a great boat the drive :).

PS - they formed the basis of the Admiral's Barges and I think the 'barge' that the Queen used on her last visit to Canberra when she drove around the lake was a version of the 33 footer.

Garry

[Tank]

That is a 33ft general utility boat - also in a 26ft version and also another 33ft version that was open and used as a seaboat for general use on larger ships.

I you look at 70s and 80s pics of larger RAN warships you may see them on davits - eg Melbourne, Supply and Stalwart.

In establishments such as Cerberus, Creswell and those in Sydney Harbour would have had them for general use and training.

These were twin engined and would do about 25-30knots. The 26footers were single engine.

There is also another 40 footer that had a cabin fwd and another aft but has a different hull.

These were not named and the boat in the pic was most likey named afterwards as it may have come from HMAS Cerberus.

They were a great boat the drive :).

PS - they formed the basis of the Admiral's Barges and I think the 'barge' that the Queen used on her last visit to Canberra when she drove around the lake was a version of the 33 footer.

Garry
Twin cummins 903's if I remember correctly, I always said if I had the chance to get hold of one of these I would, don't know who built them but I can find out, my father in law was a ship surveyor at Garden Island. Did a run from Cockatoo dockyard to GI a couple of times in one, they went well, regards Frank.

[ramblingboy42]

something tells me they were a Randall build but I may be wrong

[land864]

Thanks Guys

I knew the AULRO member encyclopedia would help:)

[V8Ian]

Twin cummins 903's if I remember correctly, I always said if I had the chance to get hold of one of these I would, don't know who built them but I can find out, my father in law was a ship surveyor at Garden Island. Did a run from Cockatoo dockyard to GI a couple of times in one, they went well, regards Frank.
How could it not? A couple of marinized nine and thrupences would net between 1200 and 1500 HP. Sounded great but they liked a drink though.

[p38arover]

PS - they formed the basis of the Admiral's Barges and I think the 'barge' that the Queen used on her last visit to Canberra when she drove around the lake was a version of the 33 footer.

Garry

See Admiral's Barge - Royal Australian Navy (http://www.navy.gov.au/Admiral%27s_Barge)

and

http://www.boattransportaustralia.com.au/admirals-barge/

Why are they called a barge?

[101RRS]

How could it not? A couple of marinized nine and thupences would net between 1200 and 1500 HP. Sounded great but they liked a drink though.

There is no way these 33' boats have between 1200 and 1500 HP in each engine - they were not endowed with power - adequate comes to mind - my guess about 250hp each but not sure.

Garry

[Sprint]

How could it not? A couple of marinized nine and thupences would net between 1200 and 1500 HP. Sounded great but they liked a drink though.

are you sure on those numbers? werent the 903's closer to 3-400hp?

[101RRS]

Why are they called a barge?




barge

  [/URL][URL="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/B01/B0102300"]https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/1225.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/#) /bɑrdʒ/ Show Spelled Show IPA noun, verb, barged, barg·ing.
noun 1. a capacious, flat-bottomed vessel, usually intended to be pushed or towed, for transporting freight or passengers; lighter.

2. a vessel of state used in pageants: elegantly decorated barges on the Grand Canal in Venice.

3. [B]Navy . a boat reserved for a flag officer.

4. a boat that is heavier and wider than a shell, often used in racing as a training boat.

5. New England (chiefly Older Use ) . a large, horse-drawn coach or, sometimes, a bus.


verb (used without object) 6. to move clumsily; bump into things; collide: to barge through a crowd.

7. to move in the slow, heavy manner of a barge.

[p38arover]

barge
3. Navy . a boat reserved for a flag officer.

But why a barge?

[V8Ian]

There is no way these 33' boats have between 1200 and 1500 HP in each engine - they were not endowed with power - adequate comes to mind - my guess about 250hp each but not sure.

Garry
I'm quoting a net figure Gary; i.e. 600-750hp each rated to a military spec. Standard automotive rating was 290-320hp, but 400+hp was easily achieved. Are you sure they weren't 555s, often refered to as triple fives or triple troubles?

[Tank]

I'm quoting a net figure Gary; i.e. 600-750hp each rated to a military spec. Standard automotive rating was 290-320hp, but 400+hp was easily achieved. Are you sure they weren't 555s, often refered to as triple fives or triple troubles?
Quote: "often refered to as triple fives or triple troubles?"
More often Cripple Fives, the boat I was on was a half cabin "workboat" and it was powered by 2 x 903T's @320HP each and would cruise at 20+ knots all day, would hate to pay the fuel bill, but a loverly boat, Regards Frank.

[101RRS]

I'm quoting a net figure Gary; i.e. 600-750hp each rated to a military spec. Standard automotive rating was 290-320hp, but 400+hp was easily achieved. Are you sure they weren't 555s, often refered to as triple fives or triple troubles?

I have absolutely no idea what engines they have.

[101RRS]

But why a barge?

No idea - obviously historical.

Clues maybe

A capacious, flat-bottomed vessel of state (ie Royal) used in pageants that moves in the slow, heavy manner. Think Coronation Barges on the Thames etc

[d3syd]

She is currently in a fairly sad state:(

If my numbers came up I would be sorely tempted to try and buy her and restore her for histories sake.

Always sad to see history slowly deteriorate like that. Yes it would be great to restore her to her former glory wouldn't it?

[land864]

Any idea if there is a Navy vessel preservation society who would take it on if I could facilitate it?

[FISHGUTS]

Don't know what size or type of engine they had but they certainly got a hurry on when you needed it, handled really well and sounded fantastic. Lot of memories came back when I enlarged the attachment, went on many a run on them back in the early seventies whilst under training at Leeuwin. Don't do boats much now but would love to be able to afford & restore one.

Cheers,

Peter.

[Tank]

Currently staying with a friend up on the Hawkesbury at Berowra Waters.

A few years back this old girl caught my eye because of her classic lines.

I have struggled to find any history on her.

Does anyone know what type or class of boat she would be?

She is named Cerberus and has an RAN numbered plate inside.

She is currently in a fairly sad state:(

If my numbers came up I would be sorely tempted to try and buy her and restore her for histories sake.

I have been touch with the RAN historical society and the HMAS Cerberus base society to no avail.


Any contacts or suggestions on finding out some info would be greatly appreciated.

Pete
They were built in Victoria (somewhere) and were transported to Sydney, they were originally owned by private contractors, later taken over by the Navy, wood construction, Regards Frank.

[bob10]

The boats in question were built at Codock, fibreglass construction.

26 FT. -- SINGLE 4/71 Supercharged GM'S.

33ft. --Twin V6/71series Supercharged GM'S.

These were the boats on Stalwart, Bob. [ talking about the boat in the Hawkesbury]

[101RRS]

They were built in Victoria (somewhere) and were transported to Sydney, they were originally owned by private contractors, later taken over by the Navy, wood construction, Regards Frank.

Frank - you are thinking of something else. Maybe the old 40ft work boats.

The 26, 33 and 40ft (non workboat) are fibreglass and were always Navy.

Garry

[shorty943]

I have to agree with Bob and Gary, I served on Melbourne and Stalwart.
They were glass hulls and upperworks, made at Codock.

Melbourne's single 36 footer used as officer's leave boats "from memory that was the length" had a pair of derated 6V71's. We simple lower deckmen had to make do with the old clinker timber whalers with a Dorman 4 cyl diesel. She also carried the open 33 footer, which had a pair of Perkins P6M\T's rated at about 120HP each

Stalwart carried 2 at 36 foot and 2 at 40 foot, the larger ones had a pair of 8V71's. These larger versions were used for longer duration "survey" trips.

Very fine seagoing boats IF you can get hold of one.
I don't ever recall one being at Cerberus, the only "glass" boat I remember was the Bertram Flybridge cruiser used by the Naval Police, V8 Cat powered heap of junk.

[bob10]

We simple lower deckmen had to make do with the old clinker timber whalers with a Dorman 4 cyl diesel. .

And what a great sea boat they were.! One of my first jobs when I left RANATE was stoker on one of those sea boats, hunched down next to the engine, listening for the signals from the Coxswain, relayed by whistle , can't remember exactly what the signals meant, one ,two, or three blasts from a rugby whistle, to say ahead, astern, or stop. those clinker built boats were the the direct descendants from Captain Bligh's whaler that he sailed from the mutiny to Batavia. Bob

[101RRS]

I don't ever recall one being at Cerberus, the only "glass" boat I remember was the Bertram Flybridge cruiser used by the Naval Police, V8 Cat powered heap of junk.

All shore side establishments (outside Sydney Harbour) had the 26ft and 33ft boats - as well as some of the old 40 ft workboats. Cerberus certainly had them (the XO ran one aground in Hanns Inlet in the late 70s).

The Bertram was banned from going out Sydney Harbour (but did a few times if escorted) as it was too unstable. I still shudder when I see a Bertram on a fishing show being used at sea on a fishing charter.

[land864]

To my untrained eye it seems to be a fibreglass hull.

There are other timber boats on the river that are obviously timber.

I guess it could be glass over timber but as some have suggested , my guess would be fibreglass.

I guess it is not necessarily an Admiral's barge as the top deck set up is different.

It certainly appears to have 2 huge engine cowls above the deck.

I will see if I can get some more photos of the rear deck section.

I am conscious of not prying too much.

[101RRS]

To my untrained eye it seems to be a fibreglass hull.

I guess it could be glass over timber but as some have suggested , my guess would be fibreglass.

I guess it is not necessarily an Admiral's barge as the top deck set up is different.

It certainly appears to have 2 huge engine cowls above the deck.



I have driven these type of boats plenty of times - both in harbour and at sea. They are fibreglass.

There are three versions of the basic design - all have the same hull. The one you have found has a cabin covering about half the length with engines under covers at the rear.

The next version is called a seaboat and was used for rescues at sea. It is completely open, having no cabin at all - again engines are at the rear under covers.

The last are the Admiral's barges - same basic hull but a different cabin - front cabin basically as per the first version but either timber or timber covered. In addition there there is an aft cabin and sitting area. These boats are painted dark blue for the Fleet Commander. I seem to recall the equivalent boat for the old Navy Support Commander was dark green but it was a long time ago.

On the boat you have spotted - the hull will be Navy ship side grey (actually a very light green but looks grey from any distance). The cabin will be white. On the side of the cabin in a rectangular box/fitting will be the Cerberus under glass/perspex - indicating the boat belonged to Cerberus. Boat attached to ships generally would not have this but would have the ships pennant number painted on the side.

There were a lot of these boats in service in the 70s so are not all that rare - however now may be a different issue.

Garry

[land864]

Fantastic Garry.

Many thanks for sharing your experiences and your knowledge of boats like this old girl :)

If there is water in the front cabin section , I have a question.

How would that make it's way in through the hull?

Then again , I know there have been huge rains up here and if the auto bilge pumps were off line or the batteries flat, that water could be rain run off.

Was the main structural frame timber or something else Garry.

Also , most of the deck seems to have rotted away. Was that a marine ply?

Finally , you think it may actually been from Cerberus down in Vic Garry




Pete

[101RRS]

I cannot answer questions on specific construction - I was a driver :) not a maintainer - water would most likely be rain, noting the rear is open or a leaking stern tube or corroded cooling pipes - anything really.

If it has Cerberus on the side of the cabin then it was at Cerberus, at least later in its Navy life.

[101RRS]

Here is a pic from Creswell - the boat in the front is a 40ft AWB workboat (drove it), the boat to the right is a 26ft Utility boat (drove it - terrible things - one engine, lots of torque steer and poor rudder at slow speed) - behind is a 33ft Fast Utility Boat like the one you have spotted (drove it too - nice drive).

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/AWB4003RANJervisBay1983Proof732-21.jpg

Garry

[Tank]

Shorty, no 'glass boats were built at Cockatoo, also there was no Glass workshop at Cockatoo, the workboats built by Cockatoo were steel and wood, last one ("Bustler") was built by apprentices and me, had a Gardener 6cyl. diesel. The boat that I'm referring to is the same as the one pictured by land864, except most didn't have cabin and flybridge, just a windscreen and canopy, the decks were wood so were the engine covers and the engines were both 903T Cummins. Never had a look at them out of the water as Cockatoo did not service or repair them, as I said my FIL was the head Hull Surveyor for GI and then ADF and he has never surveyed a fibreglass hull, as he said they were supplied by contractors (later taken over by the Navy), so if the hull is fibreglass it would have been surveyed by the contractors, but my FIL has surveyed every Naval ship/boat in his 40 years with GI including the Patrol boats in New Guinea and even the ones given to the Indonesian Navy, up until he retired, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

Just found a video at SkillsOne - Restoring Australia's trade history (http://www.skillsone.com.au/industry/3/metals--engineering/video/912/restoring-australias-trade-history/)
showing restoration of an Admirals barge on Cockatoo island, it has double planked timber hull, wish I was still living in Sydney, I would be volunteering to work over there, it's a disgrace what has been done to Cockatoo Island, Regards Frank.

[303gunner]

RAN hull numbers:

26ft Fast Utility Boat

2603 , built 1968, 5 ton, speed 15kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Cresswell

26ft Harbour Personnel Boat

2620, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based HMAS Stirling
2621, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based HMAS Cresswell
2622, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based Garden Island
2623, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based Garden Island
2624, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based Garden Island
2625, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based HMAS Encounter
2626, built 1968, 5 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 1, based HMAS Cerberus

30ft Harbour Personnel Boat

30102, built 1964, 5 ton, speed 11kts, Crew 1, based Codock

33ft Fast Utility Boat

3310, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Stirling
3311, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Platypus
3313, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Waterhen
3314, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Leeuwin
3316, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Cerberus
3317, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Penguin
3318, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Waterhen
3319, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 3, based HMAS Stirling

33ft Harbour Personnel Boat

3350, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Lonsdale
3351, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Cresswell
3352, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Garden Island
3353, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Garden Island
3354, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Garden Island
3355, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Coonawarra
3356, built ??, 7 ton, speed 14kts, Crew 2, based HMAS Leeuwin

[ramblingboy42]

an enigma in "fast" .....I used to dive off Fairmiles....one had GM671's and did 12 knots, the other had GM8V71's and did 16knots, we are talking 100' here not 26 or 30. Were the GM's detuned in these utility boats or just incorrectly set up?

[land864]

Hey thanks 303gunner.

I did go and have another sticky ;)

It has the number F 3316 on the stern and inside has a plate with the date
14 11 73 which might suggest a build date.

I have had a response from RAN historical society and their response is

We can confirm that the boat in the photograph is one of a large number of Swift boats which were bought by the Navy in the 1960s, one of which was allocated to HMAS CERBERUS.

[101RRS]

To those listed you also need to add those carried by ships.

Garry

[Tank]

Was it wood or glass construction, did you get a peek at the engines, Regards Frank.

[land864]

I reckon it was glass Frank.

I didn't get a look at the engines.

I did not feel comfortable climbing aboard someone elses boat without permission.

Pete

[Tombie]

And what a great sea boat they were.! One of my first jobs when I left RANATE was stoker on one of those sea boats, hunched down next to the engine, listening for the signals from the Coxswain, relayed by whistle , can't remember exactly what the signals meant, one ,two, or three blasts from a rugby whistle, to say ahead, astern, or stop. those clinker built boats were the the direct descendants from Captain Bligh's whaler that he sailed from the mutiny to Batavia. Bob

Bob

So you were a fellow Muppet ;)

When were you there? What division?

Skuilnaam

[bob10]

Bob

So you were a fellow Muppet ;)

When were you there? What division?

Skuilnaam

Joined in 1964, Dampier Div., lived in the old WW2 huts, I remember the winters were cold, water used to freeze in the pipes, PT at 5.30 am, you went everywhere at the double. Boy, we were fit, we were called MOBIES, guess you know what it means....:D Bob

[Tombie]

Joined in 1964, Dampier Div., lived in the old WW2 huts, I remember the winters were cold, water used to freeze in the pipes, PT at 5.30 am, you went everywhere at the double. Boy, we were fit, we were called MOBIES, guess you know what it means....:D Bob

I was in King Division - Joined 1990... Birdie rate ATC, went on to ATWL later on.

Remember it will, Doubling, Captains Parade (was Capt Swan)

Runs to the "S" farm carrying the 'long weight'

The old train...

Quakers Hill Railway station, PNG park (was it known as that in your time?)

[shorty943]

Shorty, no 'glass boats were built at Cockatoo, also there was no Glass workshop at Cockatoo, the workboats built by Cockatoo were steel and wood, last one ("Bustler") was built by apprentices and me, had a Gardener 6cyl. diesel. The boat that I'm referring to is the same as the one pictured by land864, except most didn't have cabin and flybridge, just a windscreen and canopy, the decks were wood so were the engine covers and the engines were both 903T Cummins. Never had a look at them out of the water as Cockatoo did not service or repair them, as I said my FIL was the head Hull Surveyor for GI and then ADF and he has never surveyed a fibreglass hull, as he said they were supplied by contractors (later taken over by the Navy), so if the hull is fibreglass it would have been surveyed by the contractors, but my FIL has surveyed every Naval ship/boat in his 40 years with GI including the Patrol boats in New Guinea and even the ones given to the Indonesian Navy, up until he retired, Regards Frank.

Thanks Tank. memory must be getting rusty after 40-odd years.
I do remember the open sea boat Melbourne carried had a pair of Perkins turbo 6's. Damned thick fibreglass hulls too, after being at sea in them, I don't think much of the "tupperware" thickness of civvy boats. Don't recall seeing any of the Cummins powered boats you mention.

And the boats Stalwart carried were all glass with 6V71's or 8V71's depending on size. I had a hand in rebuilding one of the latter just after Cyclone Tracy, seems someone left an oily rag in the engine box, it found its way under the gearbox, the shaft grabbed it and ripped a bug bunch of cooling pipework out, cooked the Gemmy big time. Engineer Officer on Stalwart at the time was Ltcmdr Jack "Make a bastard" Markham, great man to work for and learn from.

Skuilnaam, Capt Swan? was he still in at that time, I remember him as Melbourne's Captain during the 77 UK trip. Small world we live in eh?

[pop058]

Joined in 1964, Dampier Div., lived in the old WW2 huts, I remember the winters were cold, water used to freeze in the pipes, PT at 5.30 am, you went everywhere at the double. Boy, we were fit, we were called MOBIES, guess you know what it means....:D Bob


Mountain of bloody intelligence (IIRC) :D

[shorty943]

Mountain of bloody intelligence (IIRC) :D

Not exactly what I as a stoker remember it meaning.

MOBI, Most Obnoxious Ba----d Imaginable, :D


PS, I actually got on well with most of them, 2 especially come to mind ERA "Sharky" Boswell, and ERA "Pie- with a C" Piec.

[pop058]

Not exactly what I as a stoker remember it meaning.

MOBI, Most Obnoxious Ba----d Imaginable, :D


ditto, I was trying to be nice.

July 75 intake ("C" rate)

[bob10]

Mountain of bloody intelligence (IIRC) :D

Wish I would have thought of that, , Bob :p

[bob10]

Not exactly what I as a stoker remember it meaning.

MOBI, Most Obnoxious Ba----d Imaginable, :D


PS, I actually got on well with most of them, 2 especially come to mind ERA "Sharky" Boswell, and ERA "Pie- with a C" Piec.

After the initial sorting out period, stokers & tiffies usually got on well, I know the 3 badgemen on the Vampire kept us in line, when we first joined. I will always remember old George Ballard, teaching us all the old RN songs in the pubs of Williamstown, whilst in refit. Great memories, still with me today. Bob [If anyone tried to be obnoxious to those blokes, it was knocked out of them ]

[101RRS]

Engineer Officer on Stalwart at the time was Ltcmdr Jack "Make a bastard" Markham, great man to work for and learn from.

I was also on Stalwart on the second half of 74 and as a junior officer was required to attend Cocktail Parties onboard when in port:( - one of our additional duties was to procure women for old codgers like Jack Markham :o- their logic was that a 18-20yo could get women easier than the 40-50yo but it was then easier to make the juniors go away and for them to take over:eek:. Markham lives/d near me and I used to often see him at the local shops but haven't seen him for a couple of years.

However we had to be in bed buy about 2330 each night and some of the ladies would come down and tuck us in :) in the Gunroom.

I was involved in a major exercise on Stalwart off Fraser Island and was required to drive the boats in Platypus Bay - I had to go alongside one of the escorting ships but there was a large swell and it was unsafe to come alongside but the Officer of the Watch new better than me and ordered me alongside, the timber accommodation ladder (a magnificent piece of timber work). As I came alongside the swell picked up the 33 footer and and we smashed alongside and I broke off the bottom 10 feet of the ladder and was told in no uncertain terms to get back to my own ship:(. By the time I got back to Stalwart the Captain of the DE had already contacted old Burnside the Captain of Stalwart and I was summonsed straight to his cabin for the dressing down :(but thankfully the Executive Officer of Stalwart had seen the whole incident and stepped in :)- the Captain of the DE was given a rocket for conducting unsafe operations. The Shipwrights then rebuilt the accommodation ladder.

However shortly after I was Junior Officer of the Watch (not yet qualified) while at anchor at night and there was a huge explosion out the funnel of the ship - donkey boiler had a fart and blew up:o. I advised the actual Officer of the Watch (a very senior Lieutenant Commander - the Bosun) who was down in his cabin and he said not to worry about it which was odd as my training indicated the Captain should have been advised.

Shortly after the Captain came up to the bridge and wanted to know what the bang had been - I explained and I was then invited to accompany the Captain to the bridge wing where I was torn to shreds for not reporting the incident to him:( - on one hand I wanted to advise that the OOW had been told but loyalty kicked in as it is easier for a Midn to make a mistake while under training rather than a senior officer getting his arse kicked for incompetence.

I later used to see Old Burnside at the National Library where I used to go for lunch occasionally. He was always there when I was there so I assumed he spent a large proportion of his retired life there - he never recognised me though. He passed on about 3 years ago.

I permanently left Stalwart for Christmas leave in late 74 and then flew to Darwin the day after Tracey to join Vendetta when it arrived. I think we had a 26 footer and an outboard there.

I was onboard Stalwart quite a few times after that and I found it a great ship - always cold inside because the the a/c worked so well. Later I had to passage onboard from Darwin to Sydney and as I was bored did a few watches going through the reef. Some of the turns are a bit tight for a ship that size and on one turn the ship was running a little wide so I ordered max rudder and the thing stayed on max rudder and would not come back - bummer. A bit of engine manoeuvring stopped the turn (driving a 15,000t ship is basically the same as driving a 33 footer just a bit more lumbering). It was then that the Navigator said not to use more than 25 degrees of wheel as it goes to full lock :o - now he tells me.

Anyway after a little while off we go again with the old steering gear that was out of the Battle Class Tobruk working again.

One of the great things about Stalwart for me was the boat driving - the 33 footers which is the subject of this thread and the larger 40 footers which in my view where a much better drive.

Sorry to Wax Lyrical but this thread does bring back some pleasant memories - oh the boat that is the subject of this thread maybe the one that the Executive Officer of Cerberus wrapped around a marker pylon near the wharf.

Garry

[Tank]

I was also on Stalwart on the second half of 74 and as a junior officer was required to attend Cocktail Parties onboard when in port:( - one of our additional duties was to procure women for old codgers like Jack Markham :o- their logic was that a 18-20yo could get women easier than the 40-50yo but it was then easier to make the juniors go away and for them to take over:eek:. Markham lives/d near me and I used to often see him at the local shops but haven't seen him for a couple of years.

However we had to be in bed buy about 2330 each night and some of the ladies would come down and tuck us in :) in the Gunroom.

I was involved in a major exercise on Stalwart off Fraser Island and was required to drive the boats in Platypus Bay - I had to go alongside one of the escorting ships but there was a large swell and it was unsafe to come alongside but the Officer of the Watch new better than me and ordered me alongside, the timber accommodation ladder (a magnificent piece of timber work). As I came alongside the swell picked up the 33 footer and and we smashed alongside and I broke off the bottom 10 feet of the ladder and was told in no uncertain terms to get back to my own ship:(. By the time I got back to Stalwart the Captain of the DE had already contacted old Burnside the Captain of Stalwart and I was summonsed straight to his cabin for the dressing down :(but thankfully the Executive Officer of Stalwart had seen the whole incident and stepped in :)- the Captain of the DE was given a rocket for conducting unsafe operations. The Shipwrights then rebuilt the accommodation ladder.

However shortly after I was Junior Officer of the Watch (not yet qualified) while at anchor at night and there was a huge explosion out the funnel of the ship - donkey boiler had a fart and blew up:o. I advised the actual Officer of the Watch (a very senior Lieutenant Commander - the Bosun) who was down in his cabin and he said not to worry about it which was odd as my training indicated the Captain should have been advised.

Shortly after the Captain came up to the bridge and wanted to know what the bang had been - I explained and I was then invited to accompany the Captain to the bridge wing where I was torn to shreds for not reporting the incident to him:( - on one hand I wanted to advise that the OOW had been told but loyalty kicked in as it is easier for a Midn to make a mistake while under training rather than a senior officer getting his arse kicked for incompetence.

I later used to see Old Burnside at the National Library where I used to go for lunch occasionally. He was always there when I was there so I assumed he spent a large proportion of his retired life there - he never recognised me though. He passed on about 3 years ago.

I permanently left Stalwart for Christmas leave in late 74 and then flew to Darwin the day after Tracey to join Vendetta when it arrived. I think we had a 26 footer and an outboard there.

I was onboard Stalwart quite a few times after that and I found it a great ship - always cold inside because the the a/c worked so well. Later I had to passage onboard from Darwin to Sydney and as I was bored did a few watches going through the reef. Some of the turns are a bit tight for a ship that size and on one turn the ship was running a little wide so I ordered max rudder and the thing stayed on max rudder and would not come back - bummer. A bit of engine manoeuvring stopped the turn (driving a 15,000t ship is basically the same as driving a 33 footer just a bit more lumbering). It was then that the Navigator said not to use more than 25 degrees of wheel as it goes to full lock :o - now he tells me.

Anyway after a little while off we go again with the old steering gear that was out of the Battle Class Tobruk working again.

One of the great things about Stalwart for me was the boat driving - the 33 footers which is the subject of this thread and the larger 40 footers which in my view where a much better drive.

Sorry to Wax Lyrical but this thread does bring back some pleasant memories - oh the boat that is the subject of this thread maybe the one that the Executive Officer of Cerberus wrapped around a marker pylon near the wharf.

Garry
Garry, the last time I worked on Stalwart at Cockatoo the Boiler Shop was replacing all the floor and gangway steel checker plates and ladders with Aluminium. The last day was a Saturday and it was a finish and knock off job, we worked through to about 1:00 pm and went home. When we go into work on the Monday we were ordered to remove the tons of aluminium plates and ladders/stairways and put all of the steel ones back. Seems that during the weekend in the UK a Royal Navy ship had an engine room fire and some sailors were killed because the aluminum floor plates and ladders/stairways melted and collapsed trapping the sailors.
I actually have one of the alloy plates removed from the Stalwart, I use it as a base for jacking in soft soils.
Vampire is my favourite ship, I was at it's launch and have a piece of the champagne bottle that was used to christen her, my FIL done his first ship hull survey on Vampire, and it was the first Naval ship my Son had been on. Also worked on all of the subs, the Duchess, Supply, Melbourne and the Frigates, names of which I can't recall, crying shame that Cockatoo is no longer, Regards Frank.

[bob10]

Well, may as well hi-jack the thread properly I guess.We Destroyer men used to call Stalwart building 215, rumour has it it was welded to the wharf. Sounds like a great draft, if you didn't like seatime. :) Vampire was the best ship I served on at many levels. The last class of of the old destroyer type, built in Australia from English design, no computers here, the machinery spaces were all hands on. One of the best experiences for me was when I was steaming "B" boiler after getting my boiler ticket . You relied completely on the stokers on watch to do their jobs correctly, success or failure of the evolution depended on human input, and the feeling when a diffucult evolution was properly carried out , was superb. I believe Vampire had the best crew of any ship at that time. [ not biased, of course]

Quite a few of the stokers were old hands , been around a while, almost the last of the old sailors, a privilege to serve with them. Vampire did a lot of seatime, most of it in the Far East. We were in Singapore when the RN pulled out, the end of an era. There was an RN Daring in Singers., Dainty? I think, we beat them at rugby, when they sailed for the UK., we flew one of their rugby jumpers from our mast, felling pretty smug, until we saw they had taken our " dusty's bus stop" , a seat stokers sat on on the port side after their watch. Honours even. It was little things like this that created a bond between ships & crews.

At that time, the Cold War was in full swing. and the ships of the " Strategic Reserve", as the small fleet of RN, RAN, RNZN., ships were called, if the Cold War turned hot, were to be first in. It was pretty full on, exercising with the USN, and others, in as realistic scenarios as possible. Tragically, the destroyer USS Evans was cut in half and sunk during such an exercise. Vampire was there, assisting in the aftermath, and escorted Melbourne to Singapore. There were numerous cat & mouse games with "trawlers", bristling with antennas, and plent of underwater contacts, a busy time.

I won't talk about our runs ashore, great as they were. Some things are best left unsaid. But, for a young man , first time in the Far East, exotic places like Singapore [ before it was cleaned up] Bangkok, Manilla, Hong Kong, Penang, Kaoshing, Hakodate, and others were eyeopeners. Last but not least, we fired the last 21 inch torpedo from a Daring class, just before coming home. The signal from HMS London read "Congratulations, Vampire, your torpedo passed under our bow". No more needs to be said about the old Vamps. I don't think. Bob

[bob10]

old codgers like Jack Markham :o-

Garry
A little ditty about Jack.,Whatever else is said about RANATE sailors, the truth is they were superbly trained in their respective trades. Jack's nickname was [excuse me ,mods] "make a bastard " Markham. Any young tiffie, or mechanician, who approached Jack with the sad tale a part was broken and stores had none, was told " you're a tiffie/mechanician, make a bastard!! " . And they did. Bob

[shorty943]

Thread hijack alert.

Bob, speaking of "vamps" guess where the door tally plate of the Vampire's Coxswains Office is right now?

Late night sneak attack, pussers dirk in hand etc, door tally now resides happily on the door of the "littlest room" in my home.:twisted:
Score one for the stokers, nill for the crushers.

OK hijack over, you may resume normal services.

[bob10]

Thread hijack alert.

Bob, speaking of "vamps" guess where the door tally plate of the Vampire's Coxswains Office is right now?

Late night sneak attack, pussers dirk in hand etc, door tally now resides happily on the door of the "littlest room" in my home.:twisted:
Score one for the stokers, nill for the crushers.

OK hijack over, you may resume normal services.

HI, Jack, That little Coxn's office could tell a lot of stories. Our Chief Coxn. was Des Harper, a renown pugilist. Many's the time he locked the door & said, " my punishment, or the Jimmies? " I don't know anyone who chose Des's, and not many re-offended. Bob

[extreme]

Since we're on the topic of Vampire. I still have an un opened bottle of de-comissioning port and the four glasses with the Vampire coat of arms on them. ;)

[bob10]

Since we're on the topic of Vampire. I still have an un opened bottle of de-comissioning port and the four glasses with the Vampire coat of arms on them. ;)
I'm sure you'll find some takers if you want to make sure it doesn't go off, :angel:Bob

[pop058]

Well, may as well hi-jack the thread properly I guess.We Destroyer men used to call Stalwart building 215, rumour has it it was welded to the wharf. Sounds like a great draft, if you didn't like seatime. :) snip< Bob

Building 215 did do some seatime :D Up top in the mid 80's (including the gas incident and the Nella Dan/Macquarie Island thing).

[bob10]

Building 215 did do some seatime :D Up top in the mid 80's (including the gas incident and the Nella Dan/Macquarie Island thing).

Not knocking Stalwart [well, not much] because I realise what an asset she was, in her time she would have been one of the most capable repair ships in the World, capable of doing minor and some major repairs on destroyers, frigates, submarines, & patrol boats, many miles from any base. Fitted with up to date state of the art [ at the time] trade machinary, and manned with highly capable engineering, electronic, & shipwright tradesmen, Stalwart was indeed a fleet asset. .... she also carried those 26/33 ft work boats discussed about earlier in the thread. Bob

[bob10]

Whilst on strategic reserve in Asia ,Vampire performed a task that Navies had been taking on since the days of Drake, Piracy patrol! She patrolled the Mallaca Straits , escorting merchant ships during a time piracy was becoming a major concern, costing shipping companies a lot of money. We caught no pirates, but no shipping was attacked whilst we were there, for the very good reason the pirates had cockatoos in fishing boats warning them about a warships presence . Lucky for them! Bob

[Nivlag]

Currently staying with a friend up on the Hawkesbury at Berowra Waters.

A few years back this old girl caught my eye because of her classic lines.

I have struggled to find any history on her.

Does anyone know what type or class of boat she would be?

She is named Cerberus and has an RAN numbered plate inside.

She is currently in a fairly sad state:(

If my numbers came up I would be sorely tempted to try and buy her and restore her for histories sake.

I have been touch with the RAN historical society and the HMAS Cerberus base society to no avail.


Any contacts or suggestions on finding out some info would be greatly appreciated.

Pete.........Hi Pete..I currently own this boat after purchasing her from the owner..Yes she is in a sad state for sure...Powered by two turbocharged perkins diesels through v-drives....email is waynegalvin49@gmail.com

[NavyDiver]

After the initial sorting out period, stokers & tiffies usually got on well, I know the 3 badgemen on the Vampire kept us in line, when we first joined. I will always remember old George Ballard, teaching us all the old RN songs in the pubs of Williamstown, whilst in refit. Great memories, still with me today. Bob [If anyone tried to be obnoxious to those blokes, it was knocked out of them ]

Fellow Vampire sailor- of course not being a Dibbi deducts points but as a UC Vampire was a bit sad:D

Back on topic- drove Leewuin Cerberus and Waterhen boats or dove off them. I'd vote glass on the one pictured and bet the name was post Navy days.

Back off topic- Will be putting my kids in my former bunk on Vampire this weekend after a little run on Sunday over the nice bridge in Sydney :)

[NavyDiver]

Since we're on the topic of Vampire. I still have an un opened bottle of de-comissioning port and the four glasses with the Vampire coat of arms on them. ;)

I drank one last year- Yum

[bob10]

Fellow Vampire sailor- of course not being a Dibbi deducts points but as a UC Vampire was a bit sad:D

Back on topic- drove Leewuin Cerberus and Waterhen boats or dove off them. I'd vote glass on the one pictured and bet the name was post Navy days.

Back off topic- Will be putting my kids in my former bunk on Vampire this weekend after a little run on Sunday over the nice bridge in Sydney :)


Are the mess decks open? Last time we were there [ many years ago] we weren't allowed in , because of asbestos scare. Bob

[bob10]

Fellow Vampire sailor- of course not being a Dibbi deducts points but as a UC Vampire was a bit sad:D

Back on topic- drove Leewuin Cerberus and Waterhen boats or dove off them. I'd vote glass on the one pictured and bet the name was post Navy days.

Back off topic- Will be putting my kids in my former bunk on Vampire this weekend after a little run on Sunday over the nice bridge in Sydney :)


We saw the last 21 inch torpedo fired in the RAN from a surface ship [ Vampire] off Singapore in 1969? I think. Target was HMS London, who was carrying out a gunnery attack on us, firing off set . She sent us a signal -" congratulations Vampire, torpedo passed under our bow". Bob

[Pickles2]

Just read this total thread, some of which I found quite interesting, although I found the estimated power outputs of two 903s at 12-1500 HP to be rather "optimistic"!
Has the O.P. seen the "resurection" of this thread I wonder, & what has happened to the boat the subject of the thread sinse?
It would be interesting to see what's happening, as this boat is obviously the "genuine article".
Pickles.

[bob10]

Just read this total thread, some of which I found quite interesting, although I found the estimated power outputs of two 903s at 12-1500 HP to be rather "optimistic"!
Has the O.P. seen the "resurection" of this thread I wonder, & what has happened to the boat the subject of the thread sinse?
It would be interesting to see what's happening, as this boat is obviously the "genuine article".
Pickles.


You must have missed this when you read the total thread, I guess, Bob


.........Hi Pete..I currently own this boat after purchasing her from the owner..Yes she is in a sad state for sure...Powered by two turbocharged perkins diesels through v-drives....email is waynegalvin49@gmail.com (waynegalvin49@gmail.com)

[PAT303]

Funny,when I was 16 one of my first ever jobs was to put the third layer of hull planking on a boat like that.As far as I'm aware it is still at Empire Bay. Pat

[Pickles2]

You must have missed this when you read the total thread, I guess, Bob


.........Hi Pete..I currently own this boat after purchasing her from the owner..Yes she is in a sad state for sure...Powered by two turbocharged perkins diesels through v-drives....email is waynegalvin49@gmail.com (waynegalvin49@gmail.com)
I don't think I've missed anything, but I'm always happy to be corrected Bob, so, maybe you can do that for me?
Pickles.

[bob10]

I don't think I've missed anything, but I'm always happy to be corrected Bob, so, maybe you can do that for me?
Pickles.


Not sure what you mean, but would be only too pleased to help. If I knew what you wanted. Bob

[NavyDiver]

Are the mess decks open? Last time we were there [ many years ago] we weren't allowed in , because of asbestos scare. Bob
3 Charlie was last time but that was years ago. Will find out on the weekend if I can update the last photo with the two new crew members in my bunk:D

[Mick_Marsh]

I don't think I've missed anything, but I'm always happy to be corrected Bob, so, maybe you can do that for me?
Pickles.
Nivlag has just bought it.

[Pickles2]

Not sure what you mean, but would be only too pleased to help. If I knew what you wanted. Bob
No worries Bob.
Well, I did ask, "what had happened" to the boat....etc.
Now I see that the current owner has come on here, so my question was, & still is, "What had/has happened", to the boat.
Someone said it was looking a bit sad, and that was a few years ago, (this is a "resurected" thread) so in view of that, as it had "history" etc, I'm asking "what's happened to it",....ie, has any repair/resto work been done etc, to ensure its longevity, and what is it's current condition?
Pickles.

[ramblingboy42]

G'day Pickles, we meet again....I too have just this minute read the thread in it's entirety.

couple of questions....one....as a soldier I always referred to sailors as pussars.

So I looked in the Macquarie and it's not mentioned.....where did the terminology come from?

second.....I couldn't help noticing all you pussars saying you "drive" the boats.....did you also "drive" the ships?

third....when does a boat become a ship.

hope the term pussars doesn't offend.....it's not meant to.

Dennis

btw....we also often referred to you as matelots.....unless we were having a game of interservice footy......which we won!

[Pickles2]

Hello my friend, long time no speak, but I'm sorry, I don't know the answers to any of your questions!
Pickles.

[pop058]

G'day Pickles, we meet again....I too have just this minute read the thread in it's entirety.

couple of questions....one....as a soldier I always referred to sailors as pussars.

So I looked in the Macquarie and it's not mentioned.....where did the terminology come from?

second.....I couldn't help noticing all you pussars saying you "drive" the boats.....did you also "drive" the ships?

third....when does a boat become a ship.

hope the term pussars doesn't offend.....it's not meant to.

Dennis

btw....we also often referred to you as matelots.....unless we were having a game of interservice footy......which we won!

Try "pusser" (with an "e")

[bob10]

G'day Pickles, we meet again....I too have just this minute read the thread in it's entirety.

couple of questions....one....as a soldier I always referred to sailors as pussars.

So I looked in the Macquarie and it's not mentioned.....where did the terminology come from?

second.....I couldn't help noticing all you pussars saying you "drive" the boats.....did you also "drive" the ships?

third....when does a boat become a ship.

hope the term pussars doesn't offend.....it's not meant to.

Dennis

btw....we also often referred to you as matelots.....unless we were having a game of interservice footy......which we won!
I have the answer to your questions.

From the Oxford companion to ships and the sea

BOAT- The generic name for small open craft without any decking and usually propelled by oars or outboard engines. Some exceptions to this general definition are fishing boats, sometimes decked or half decked and propelled by sail and/or inboard motors, and submarines, which are generally known as boats, irrespective of size. This oddity of nomenclature almost certainly derives from their original and universal description as submarine boats.


The original torpedo boats, forerunners of the more modern destroyers and frigates, were also generally known in their time as boats although built up to a displacement of 250-300 tons. Another exception to the rule is the modern fast patrol boat, successor to the motor torpedo boats, and motor gun boats of the of the 2nd World war. Some yachts are also known as boats.


Boat is a word frequently used by people ashore when they really mean ship, and such terms as packet boat mail boat, etc, are in fairly general use. A seaman will never call any ship, packet, mail, or any other , a boat, as thee two terms are not synonymous and, are to him , quite distinct.


Purser [ Pusser] The old name by which the paymaster and officer responsible for provisions and clothing, in both the British and US Navies, was known. He was responsible for issuing all food in a ship according to the daily scale of rations laid down.


SHIP- From the old English, scip, the generic name for sea going vessels, as opposed to boats, originally personified as masculine but by the 16th century almost universally expressed as feminine. [ About 3 more pages of explanation, but my typing finger is sore. ] Bob

[bob10]

G'day Pickles, we meet again....I too have just this minute read the thread in it's entirety.

couple of questions....one....as a soldier I always referred to sailors as pussars.

So I looked in the Macquarie and it's not mentioned.....where did the terminology come from?

second.....I couldn't help noticing all you pussars saying you "drive" the boats.....did you also "drive" the ships?

third....when does a boat become a ship.

hope the term pussars doesn't offend.....it's not meant to.

Dennis

btw....we also often referred to you as matelots.....unless we were having a game of interservice footy......which we won!


Almost forgot, you con a ship, steer a boat.Bob

[3toes]

Probably out of date however an Uncle of mine of WW2 vintage who had been in Australian navy when asked by me as a kid said that a boat was under 10k tons a ship was over 10k tons.

Now this may have reflected some kind of internal navy rivalry over my ship is bigger than your boat.

Not sure why that had stuck with me or why have just remembered it.