Model A/B Ford

[uninformed]

who here has driven a Model A or B Ford?

how did it handle and ride? what was it like under brakes, did it dive?

cheers,
Serg

[Don 130]

I learned to drive in one, but that was centuries ago. I remember that the brake rods were difficult to adjust properly, but I don't remember it diving. I was driving on dirt roads or farmland. I've got the bits here to build a roadster pickup. A project for another day.
Don

[Bigbjorn]

Typical 1920's car. Almost no brakes by current standards, skinny cross ply textile tyres, sloppy steering, transverse leaf suspension both ends without any lateral location so lots of bobbing and swaying, high ground clearance and flexible chassis for the vile "roads" of the times. I can't recall them having shock absorbers except maybe as an optional extra or accessory.

So how do you think they handled?

[uninformed]

well Brian, I reckon there front end would be alot more compliant and handle bumps at speed better than alot of other more modern solid axle front end vehicles ;)

I realise they lack so decent dampening and not quite sure of the traverse leaf springs, but they would locate the axle lateraly. What I do like though is the nice long A frame front link....

In the few hot rod pics I have seen, I would have sworn the front links parrallel with the chassis and mounted outboard??? Is there a change in year model or is this an aftermarket hot rod thing?

btw looking from a 4wd perspective

[Bigbjorn]

well Brian, I reckon there front end would be alot more compliant and handle bumps at speed better than alot of other more modern solid axle front end vehicles ;)

I realise they lack so decent dampening and not quite sure of the traverse leaf springs, but they would locate the axle lateraly. What I do like though is the nice long A frame front link....

In the few hot rod pics I have seen, I would have sworn the front links parrallel with the chassis and mounted outboard??? Is there a change in year model or is this an aftermarket hot rod thing?

btw looking from a 4wd perspective

A transverse leaf spring will provide lateral location if only one end is shackled. If both ends are shackled then a Panhard rod or Watts Linkage or Jacobs Ladder should be part of the initial design. A Models did not have lateral location hence the bobbing and swaying.The radius rods originally were a "V" on a centrally located ball end. The hot rod suspensions you mention are a hot rod thing. These cars also had a high centre of gravity to give the necessary ground clearance with all the heavy bits mounted high out of the rocks and mud.

They were a cheap simple car to replace the seriously outdated T Model in the bottom end of the marketplace. By the time the A Model hit the showrooms other makes already had hydraulic brakes, shock absorbers, water pumps, etc.

[JDNSW]

As Brian says, the Model A was a replacement for the Model T, same layout, same basic design, just with a modern (side valve, but the Yanks stuck with them long after most of the rest of the world), four wheel brakes (quite good, actually, if you could keep them adjusted), but unchanged suspension design. As Brian says, sideways location dependent on gravity! But suspension very compliant, and with the chassis attached to the suspension at only two points, the chassis could be made much simpler and lighter. And the radius rods front and rear ensured there was no axle tramp under either power or braking, unlike many of their competitors with conventional semi-elliptics.

Ford did not go to hydraulic brakes until the 1940s, in common with some other manufacturers, and stuck with the transverse springs into the late 1940s.

John

[UncleHo]

I agree with both Brian and JD the Model A and B 4 cylinder and the subsequent V8's with Transverse springs were simple and efficent vehicles,they went to Hydraulic brakes with the 1939 Deluxe Sedans and the last tranverse sedan was 1948,with the 48 ute being tranverse front semi-eliptic rear from memory, all transverse Fords had enclosed tailshaft drive, but 48 ute was live.

They did make for "interesting" driving in the wet ;)

[Bigbjorn]

I agree with both Brian and JD the Model A and B 4 cylinder and the subsequent V8's with Transverse springs were simple and efficent vehicles,they went to Hydraulic brakes with the 1939 Deluxe Sedans and the last tranverse sedan was 1948,with the 48 ute being tranverse front semi-eliptic rear from memory, all transverse Fords had enclosed tailshaft drive, but 48 ute was live.

They did make for "interesting" driving in the wet ;)

Yes, Kev, the 46-48 utes had open tailshaft but the same rear axle, 4.11 ratio from memory. The sedans had torque tube drive and a faster ratio.

The V8's were not popular in the west and north-west as they were tea kettles in the heat of summer. The long exhaust ports than ran through the block from one side to the other ensured this. Other side valve vee engines like Cadillac, Packard, Auburn had the exhaust manifolds in the centre of the vee.

[Bigbjorn]

As Brian says, the Model A was a replacement for the Model T, same layout, same basic design, just with a modern (side valve, but the Yanks stuck with them long after most of the rest of the world), four wheel brakes (quite good, actually, if you could keep them adjusted), but unchanged suspension design. As Brian says, sideways location dependent on gravity! But suspension very compliant, and with the chassis attached to the suspension at only two points, the chassis could be made much simpler and lighter. And the radius rods front and rear ensured there was no axle tramp under either power or braking, unlike many of their competitors with conventional semi-elliptics.

Ford did not go to hydraulic brakes until the 1940s, in common with some other manufacturers, and stuck with the transverse springs into the late 1940s.

John

The yanks went in for flexible chrome vanadium alloy steel chassis rails which allowed a lot of twist and suited the appalling roads of the era particularly in the USA snow belt with the spring thaw and dirt roads and deep mud and ruts. The Europeans tended to "bridge girder" heavy rails which certainly in Western Qld. made the UK & Euro vehicles quite unpopular as they shook themselves to pieces with their own rigidity. No mail contractor would have used anything other than, Dodge, Buick, Hudson, Studebaker and similar as mail cars. Cadillac, Packard, big Studebakers, Reos, Pierce-Arrow (few), and a couple of other high end USA makes were popular for conversion to service cars, usually bought second-hand, stretched and a side loader bus body built on them.

Side valves were in common use by all auto manufacturing nations into the 1950's. Buick and Chevrolet never had a side valve engine. Stutz and Deusenberg had single and twin OHC engines in the 20's and thirties. Hudson had OHV engines notably the magnificent Super Six then reverted to side valves which eventually ruled Nascar racing in the early 1950's. Oldsmobile and Cadillac first produced the modern light weight OHV high revving V8's in 1949 and these basic designs have become the standard for performance. Nearly all USA makes were OHV by 1955. Austin had side valves until the A40 & A70 range about 1948, Morris until the early 50's. Armstrong-Siddeley had a 2 litre four cylinder side valve engine in a near two ton car up to 1949-50. Rootes Group, Hillman, Humber, Commer had side valves up to about 1954. The Triumph Mayflower was side valve. Fiat and Mercedes-Benz were still making some side valve engines post WW2.

[uninformed]

As Brian says, the Model A was a replacement for the Model T, same layout, same basic design, just with a modern (side valve, but the Yanks stuck with them long after most of the rest of the world), four wheel brakes (quite good, actually, if you could keep them adjusted), but unchanged suspension design. As Brian says, sideways location dependent on gravity! But suspension very compliant, and with the chassis attached to the suspension at only two points, the chassis could be made much simpler and lighter. And the radius rods front and rear ensured there was no axle tramp under either power or braking, unlike many of their competitors with conventional semi-elliptics.

Ford did not go to hydraulic brakes until the 1940s, in common with some other manufacturers, and stuck with the transverse springs into the late 1940s.

John

like I said ive only seen a couple of pics on the net. What is your definition of a Radius rod? I thought what made a "radius" was the hockey stick type end with a bush either side of housing, like in a rover front. Now the front end of a Ford A/B is not a driving axle, I thought the V frame link was only attached to the rear of the I beam front axle? and the single ball end attached to the same crossmember that the rear of the gearbox attached to? And what of the rear end link?

[loanrangie]

Not A/B ford but my dads 1927 Fast Four and 28 Senior Six dodge handle quite well, suspension is fairly supple with the cantilever shock absorbers. Fast Four 's brakes are just rear wheel and are fairly atrocious , the senior six has four wheel hydraulic which pulls up the big heavy sedan very well even by modern standards.

[Bigbjorn]

like I said ive only seen a couple of pics on the net. What is your definition of a Radius rod? I thought what made a "radius" was the hockey stick type end with a bush either side of housing, like in a rover front. Now the front end of a Ford A/B is not a driving axle, I thought the V frame link was only attached to the rear of the I beam front axle? and the single ball end attached to the same crossmember that the rear of the gearbox attached to? And what of the rear end link?

The rear end rods attached to the torque tube.

[Bigbjorn]

Not A/B ford but my dads 1927 Fast Four and 28 Senior Six dodge handle quite well, suspension is fairly supple with the cantilever shock absorbers. Fast Four 's brakes are just rear wheel and are fairly atrocious , the senior six has four wheel hydraulic which pulls up the big heavy sedan very well even by modern standards.

1928 had Midland "Steeldraulic" mechanical brakes. 1929 had hydraulic brakes. I own a 1928.