6WD Chassis Drawings

[Ferg]

Good evening all.

Have been looking everywhere (on the net) for Land Rover 6WD chassis drawings and technical specifications. With my limited knowledge of good places to look I have drawn a blank. Is anyone able to direct me somewhere that will allow me to download such things?

Thanks and regards,

Ferg.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Ferg

You will have to be a little more specific with your request.

The 6X6 variants were never a standard production model off the floor of the Lode Lane Factory. Most UK variants were constructed by a number of after-market conversion companies, although at least one, Scottorn Trailers/Reynolds Boughton, was a factory approved conversion where partially completed production models left the factory for conversion and returned to Land Rover Special Vehicles for completion. Other companies included Foley and Sandringham.

In the 1980s a 6X6 variant was developed by Jaguar Rover Australia in conjunction with the ADE for a 6X6 variant of the 110 Perentie. Some of these variants were sold as civilian vehicles.

Diana

[Ferg]

Oh, OK. Thanks Diana.

Civilian variant. Released in the 80s (I'm guessing). Isuzu turbo diesel motor. Single cab. Loooong tray. Very rarely see them come up for sale.

[Davehoos]

2 versions wide and narrow cab.the front is same length only width is different.

front section made from square tube but all the mountings are the same location as a 110.

the rear evolved over the first few batches but after that they are basically the same .it had rolled metal as well as square tubeshares nothing with other 110.

[Blknight.aus]

patterning is the same for the military ones.....

From memory the alignment chassis check points and general layout data is in the EMEI.

[Bushie]

I'm not back at work until Monday, but I recall seeing some drawings from the 6X6 we built up in the mid 80s - I'll see if I can dig them out and scan.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/381.jpg

Martyn

[stealth]

What about 8 x 8 with four wheel steer. I saw a chassis layout like that made with two County chassis cut and shut end to end with the first and fourth axle steering. I'll see if I can locate the drawings. It was designed as a private military venture in the UK I think but didn't offer sufficient over existing types of vehicles to proceed. Drove through all existing LR components.

[isuzutoo-eh]

What about 8 x 8 with four wheel steer. I saw a chassis layout like that made with two County chassis cut and shut end to end with the first and fourth axle steering. I'll see if I can locate the drawings. It was designed as a private military venture in the UK I think but didn't offer sufficient over existing types of vehicles to proceed. Drove through all existing LR components.

Sounds like the MWG/Esarco vehicles.

[theg]

Here my custom chassis . Its a 4x4 regular chassis with a custom extension tacked on from behind the first set of rear springs .
Drive is by 2 ford nine inch rear ends with a jack shaft linking the 2 rear diffs
Engineered for registration in NSW

[TimNZ]

Not a chassis drawing, but a 6x6 Series video with very impressive articulation, (in my opinion anyway):

Bill Van Snorkle's 6x6 Land Rover Series - YouTube!

[Davehoos]

black pannel under the left door was a heat sheld for the exhaust and not a step.

[powerband]

http://002.jpg

[powerband]

http://003.jpg

[powerband]

http:// 001.jpg

[goingbush]

Not a chassis drawing, but a 6x6 Series video with very impressive articulation, (in my opinion anyway):

Bill Van Snorkle's 6x6 Land Rover Series - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZuJHchxpvQ&feature=player_embedded#)!

Where did you dig that out of
Thats Bill's (Wagoo here on AULRO) most inspirational 6x6

[powerband]

http://005.jpg

[TimNZ]

Where did you dig that out of
Thats Bill's (Wagoo here on AULRO) most inspirational 6x6

From a thread on the LR4X4 forum.

[Slunnie]

Where did you dig that out of
Thats Bill's (Wagoo here on AULRO) most inspirational 6x6
Ahhh, I wondered if they were the same person. I'd always understood in the past that Bill doesn't use the computer much.

[justinc]

just found this 6x6 in action While looking for build vids, a bit OT but impressive build quality:D

Land rover Defender 6X6 - YouTube

enjoy:)

JC

[Davo]

That's good to see there are some other nutters out there.

I've always wanted to build a 6x6 88" wheelbase 4-wheel-steering forward control, which should almost be possible given all the old parts I'm slowly collecting without meaning to!

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Not a lot of articulation, but I want one!

[Slunnie]

Not a lot of articulation, but I want one!
I recall seeing one on the travel ramp at an expo, mil spec. It really surprised me at how far it didn't get up the ramp, barely up it at all. That said, it's probably sprung to carry 2t.

[mickrae]

Hi Ferg ,I have a 6x6 sitting at home and drawings to suit.
It's half landy,half range rover chassis
Coil sprung range rover diffs etc
Let me know if you would like copy or photos

[123rover50]

Try this.

Didiman

[uninformed]

I recall seeing one on the travel ramp at an expo, mil spec. It really surprised me at how far it didn't get up the ramp, barely up it at all. That said, it's probably sprung to carry 2t.

Bill hasnt been here for a month or so. He may pop his head in and add his thoughts on the Aus 6x6 rear suspension set up..............

[Blknight.aus]

Try this.

Didiman

thats the alignment diagram that I recall.

[Davehoos]

with the rear axle not normally driven is the middle axle lifts of the ground and free wheels.we often had a few goes to get the up a rump to look under the vehicle doing repairs.

they use a single vac switch to lock center diff and rear axle.
no reason that you cant use 2 switches to operate each seporatly.

i wonder if you ran the rear axle like a powered trailer would it stress the other driveline running unlocked.

the work shop manuals show for england a transfer box for 4 cyl 90-110 without the center diff and free wheel hubs.i also wonder how the front wheel drive transfer boxes work.

[carjunkieanon]

Yes that 6x6 was brilliant off-road, but....would a Californian surfer want to cruise down a smooth pavement in one?

No!

Modern LR wouldn't touch it!



Seriously good vehicle though.
Tell me, would a current Defender be able to slide over a tree like that or would it take out the handbrake?

[rick130]

Y
[snip]

Tell me, would a current Defender be able to slide over a tree like that or would it take out the handbrake?

Bill's Landy had little wheels under the guts so it could do that.


[edit]

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/87/6x6jockeywheelcloseup.jpg/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/212.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/212.jpg

[rick130]

Powerband, is there any chance of those sales brochures being scanned larger please ?

They are opening up as tiny little pictures ATM, too small to read.

[powerband]

Sorry but I don't know how to scan them larger. If you send them to your photos you can enlarge. Paul

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I recall seeing one on the travel ramp at an expo, mil spec. It really surprised me at how far it didn't get up the ramp, barely up it at all. That said, it's probably sprung to carry 2t.My comment were on the radio controlled model in the video! :D

The Aust mil 6x6 defender are leaf sprung rear so will reduce articulation when compared to a coil sprung vehicle. On the issue of a coil sprung 6x6 (or even the leaf sprung ones) on a ramp, the physics of the departure angle will prevent a good score. On a 110 as it climbs up the ramp the rear of the chassis will approach the ground before the rear wheel loses contact, however on the 6x6 the rear axle will suspend the middle axle very early guaranteeing a poor score.

I have a disassembled coil sprung Defender 6x6 undergoing modification.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/145.jpg

[uninformed]

Powerband, is there any chance of those sales brochures being scanned larger please ?

They are opening up as tiny little pictures ATM, too small to read.

email me your postal address

[uninformed]

My comment were on the radio controlled model in the video! :D

The Aust mil 6x6 defender are leaf sprung rear so will reduce articulation when compared to a coil sprung vehicle. On the issue of a coil sprung 6x6 (or even the leaf sprung ones) on a ramp, the physics of the departure angle will prevent a good score. On a 110 as it climbs up the ramp the rear of the chassis will approach the ground before the rear wheel loses contact, however on the 6x6 the rear axle will suspend the middle axle very early guaranteeing a poor score.




not entirely true Diana, it is the whole rear link design and whether its load sharing or not as well. Bill has talked about this a few times. The Aus 6x6 are good rigs for what they do, but could have been much better

[easo]

Not a chassis drawing, but a 6x6 Series video with very impressive articulation, (in my opinion anyway):

Bill Van Snorkle's 6x6 Land Rover Series - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZuJHchxpvQ&feature=player_embedded#)!

I love how it maintains all wheel on the ground and almost ever point of articulation.

Easo

[lambrover]

I recall seeing one on the travel ramp at an expo, mil spec. It really surprised me at how far it didn't get up the ramp, barely up it at all. That said, it's probably sprung to carry 2t.

The Army 6x6 is not made to flex, they are to carry huge loads.

2t is way under what they carry :D from memory some have weighed in at 8t.

Blknight.aus, does the RAAF have GMV's

[theg]

The Army 6x6 is not made to flex, they are to carry huge loads.

2t is way under what they carry :D from memory some have weighed in at 8t.

Blknight.aus, does the RAAF have GMV's

I had a 6x6 civillian defender some years ago and the gvm was 5.5 tonne . Couldnt drive it in NSW on a car license .

[Lotz-A-Landies]

not entirely true Diana, it is the whole rear link design and whether its load sharing or not as well. Bill has talked about this a few times. The Aus 6x6 are good rigs for what they do, but could have been much betterThe problem for the production 6X6 LR is they aren't designed for articulation but for general load carrying capacity cross country and are restricted by the disadvantages of either differential through drives or the limitations of prop shaft extension and pinion angle of the rear axle.

It is possible to build excellent articulation on special build 6x6 as Bill has shown, but to date no one has gone into production of such a design. So at present the production 6X6 will always perform poorly on ramp tests.

[Davehoos]

because it is a 6X6 you cant drive without a HR lience.in australia.
i was told that an ambulance was well over 5 ton empty.the vehicle was a transport with all wheel drive-the tyres are a giveaway.
most of the civy 6X6 I built whent to local councilsso silly off road ability wasnt an issue.

in the factory we took the white crew cab to liverpool RTA to get a drivers lience.
the instructor didnt like me--i reversed in to a driveway to do a 13 point turn.the second go was a stuff up and we went the wrong day.

some cancelled the deal because the vehicles had no complience when we drove them so they didnt require RTA aproval.I dont think you get away with that now.

the other day I did a service on a landcruiser fire striker.the driver told me it had been used this year in 4X4.they had driven up into the barrington tops to rescue a young woman in a falcon wagon that got stuck turning around in a sediment drain.I had to adjust the bonnet as it wouldnt open and make other repairs.off road ability is subjective.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I had a 6x6 civillian defender some years ago and the gvm was 5.5 tonne . Couldnt drive it in NSW on a car license .
because it is a 6X6 you cant drive without a HR lience.in australia. ...<snip>It's not just that it's 6X6 it's that it is over 4.5Tonne and 3 axles that require the Heavy Rigid licence. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/licence_classes.htmlhttp://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/downloads/heavy_vehicle_driver_handbook.pdf

If you have a 3 axle vehicle with GVM less than 4.5T, like a Holden or Falcon 1 tonner 3 axle conversion it's still on a car licence. My LR Special Vehicles/Reynolds-Boughton 6X6 has a GVM of 4.7 Tonne so it needs a HR licence.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/01/611.jpg

[Ferg]

That would be awesome thanks mate.

[Davehoos]

the hand book that been updated now shows--
HR 3 or more axles over 8T GVM .
MR over 8T GVM only 2 axles.

LR up to 8ton GVM or over 12 seats with no mention of axles and that has changed since i did my lience.
I ask first or get it in writing.if that the case you can drive in and get an up grade with a van from a CAR lience.

the reason i looked was the GVW AND GTM.on the plate-GTM is towing mass and not counted.unless the trailer cant use the tow bar or be called a 5th wheel.

NSW police have been booking people for driving a backhoe on C lience.with a backhoe ticket.the complience officer insist we are legal.
the argument is that it in the book states for C up to 4.5TGVM ,any tractor based implement.
the discusion at work is a grader is 3 axle and 16T+ and only requires C lience-our roller is similar wieght but is it a tractor based implament?
no other qualification is required for a roller/grader.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

the hand book that been updated now shows--
HR 3 or more axles over 8T GVM .
MR over 8T GVM only 2 axles.

LR up to 8ton GVM or over 12 seats with no mention of axles and that has changed since i did my lience.
I ask first or get it in writing.if that the case you can drive in and get an up grade with a van from a CAR lience.

the reason i looked was the GVW AND GTM.on the plate-GTM is towing mass and not counted.unless the trailer cant use the tow bar or be called a 5th wheel.

NSW police have been booking people for driving a backhoe on C lience.with a backhoe ticket.the complience officer insist we are legal.
the argument is that it in the book states for C up to 4.5TGVM ,any tractor based implement.
the discusion at work is a grader is 3 axle and 16T+ and only requires C lience-our roller is similar wieght but is it a tractor based implament?
no other qualification is required for a roller/grader.The HR licence is any rigid vehicle (including bendy buses) over 4.5 tonne with 3 or more axles. If the GVM is less than 4.5 tonne the 3 axles is irrelevant.

The issue about 8 tonne in the heavy vehicle licences, is not a minimum but a maximum. A "LR" class is any rigid vehicle with GVM from 4.5 tonne to 8 tonne; a "MR" class is any vehicle with only 2 axles and GVM 4.5 tonne to 15 tonne depending on tyres on the drive. A "HR" class licence is any rigid vehicle with a minimum GVM 4.5 tonne and 2 or more axles with a upper limit for GVM exceeding 8 tonne determined by Heavy vehicle mass regulations, generally 2 axles 15 tonne, 3 axles 22 tonne, 4 axles 26 tonne according to publications such as http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/heavyvehicles/downloads/heavyveh-mass0706.pdf

A fifth wheel type trailer is also irrelevant if the GVM of the tow vehicle is less than 4.5 tonne and the trailer within the GCM or Gross Train Weight of the tow vehicle.

Even though the grader is a tractor based implement at 16 tonne GVM it would be out of the "C" class licence and very much in the "HR" class licence. The police would be correct to book the driver with a "C" licence.

[TonyC]

Hi Diana,
While I know that the Vic regs are of little relevance to you, but I thought that we now had national heavy vehicle regs.

The "Victorian Bus and Truck Drivers Handbook" issued by Vicroads says

"Light Rigid (LR)
A vehicle greater than 4.5 tonnes but no greater than 8 tonnes g.v.m. or seats more than 12 people (including the driver).

Medium Rigid (MR)
Any 2 axle rigid vehicle greater than 8 tonnes g.v.m.

Heavy Rigid (HR)
A vehicle 8 tonnes g.v.m. and above with 3 or more axles."

From that a 6X6 Landy at 4.7 Tonnes g.v.m. is a light rigid.
or have it de-rated by 201 KG and then it's a car licence, just like my 130 at 3.5 tonnes towing a 4.0 tonne trailer.

Tony

[TonyC]

Hi Tony

The Vic roads are actually the same.

All vehicles once they are 4.5 tonne or greater GVM or greater are governed by heavy vehicle regulations.

In NSW and Vic there are both weight and axle restrictions.

If a vehicle has 2 axles and a GVM 4.5 tonne or greater: But less than 8 tonne = Light Rigid licence. (LR)
but a GVM 8 tonne or greater = Medium Rigid licence (MR) (the max is 15 tonne because that is the maximum for a 2 axle rigid vehicle)If a vehicle has a GVM greater than 4.5 tonne and 3 or more axles = Heavy Rigid licence (HR).

Diana

Hi Diana,
Interestingly the learners guide that is issued (well you have to buy it) when training for a heavy licance in Victoria, that I quoted above makes no mention of axle numbers in the LR category, and I would have happily driven a sub 8 tonne 3 or more axle vehicle.

I will try and get to Vicroads in the next few days and ask, I'll report back with what they say.

Tony

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hi Diana,
Interestingly the learners guide that is issued (well you have to buy it) when training for a heavy licance in Victoria, that I quoted above makes no mention of axle numbers in the LR category, and I would have happily driven a sub 8 tonne 3 or more axle vehicle.

I will try and get to Vicroads in the next few days and ask, I'll report back with what they say.

TonyHi Tony

I have checked the Vic Legislation and you are correct, in fact I thought I deleted the above post last night because of checking the legislation, but because of the slowness of the Telstra router up near Incisor's place the delete command didn't get there.

It is the same with the wording in the NSW Legislation, however you and I both know it's not necessarily what's in the Law, it's what the coppa at the side of the road believes is the Law that will get you the ticket.

The 16 tonne GVM grader still still needs an HR licence, but in reality I don't really care what class licence one needs because I have an HR and have had for 30 years.

Diana :)

[wagoo]

Bill hasnt been here for a month or so. He may pop his head in and add his thoughts on the Aus 6x6 rear suspension set up..............
Have been computerless for over one month Serg, due to mixing up the polarity on my power supply:confused::(:(.
Good to know some photographic evidence of the old 6x6 still survives.
I think i've probably reached the stage where I've come to the limit of development of my 4x4 from a cross country ability perspective, and the only reason I won't convert it to 6x6,aside from a relative lack of enthusiasm, is that I no longer have the facilities to make another pair of portal boxes and drive splitter for the third axle.
Re the Perentie 6x6 bogie suspension. Articulation and cross country performance could probably have been improved with a so called 6 rod inverted, centrally pivoted leaf suspension. But then again,with such a relatively long primary wheelbase of 130''? and rear overhang on 7.50x16'' tyres, the vehicle will never be a mountain goat anyway.
Bill.

[DEF-090]

Have been computerless for over one month Serg, due to mixing up the polarity on my power supply:confused::(:(.
Good to know some photographic evidence of the old 6x6 still survives.
I think i've probably reached the stage where I've come to the limit of development of my 4x4 from a cross country ability perspective, and the only reason I won't convert it to 6x6,aside from a relative lack of enthusiasm, is that I no longer have the facilities to make another pair of portal boxes and drive splitter for the third axle.
Re the Perentie 6x6 bogie suspension. Articulation and cross country performance could probably have been improved with a so called 6 rod inverted, centrally pivoted leaf suspension. But then again,with such a relatively long primary wheelbase of 130''? and rear overhang on 7.50x16'' tyres, the vehicle will never be a mountain goat anyway.
Bill.

Hi Bill,
I also found this article of your 6x6 on another forum.

Bill Van Snorkle's 6x6 Land Rover Series (http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?1760-Bill-Van-Snorkle-s-6x6-Land-Rover-Series)

It makes for some great reading, I wish I was around to see it. Is this the one still in bits in your paddock?


Anyway, sorry for hi-jacking. Unfortunately I don't have any chassis drawings of the 6wd.

Regards,
Sam

[B.S.F.]

Came across an article(originally published in Autocar 30 Jan.1969) in a Brooklands book called "Land Rover 1948-1973" about building a six wheel drive L/R. Send me a PM if you would like the article.
W.

[wagoo]

Hi Bill,
I also found this article of your 6x6 on another forum.

Bill Van Snorkle's 6x6 Land Rover Series (http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?1760-Bill-Van-Snorkle-s-6x6-Land-Rover-Series)

It makes for some great reading, I wish I was around to see it. Is this the one still in bits in your paddock?


Anyway, sorry for hi-jacking. Unfortunately I don't have any chassis drawings of the 6wd.

Regards,
Sam
Hi Sam. yes there isn't much left of the old girl now, and what does does remain is rapidly going back to nature.
Computer is running dead slow tonight so your link won't load for me, but I'd guess its probably a copy of an article from 4x4 australia magazine circa mid 1980s.
Bill.

[Bushie]

I'm not back at work until Monday, but I recall seeing some drawings from the 6X6 we built up in the mid 80s - I'll see if I can dig them out and scan.

Martyn


Haven't found the drawings - but still looking.


Martyn

[uninformed]

Came across an article(originally published in Autocar 30 Jan.1969) in a Brooklands book called "Land Rover 1948-1973" about building a six wheel drive L/R. Send me a PM if you would like the article.
W.

3 things that jump out at me with that chassis pic that I like are #1, the location of the engine and its relation to the front axle. #2 the drive for each rear axle rather than a thru drive and #3 the cross bracing in the chassis itself.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

3 things that jump out at me with that chassis pic that I like are #1, the location of the engine and its relation to the front axle. #2 the drive for each rear axle rather than a thru drive and #3 the cross bracing in the chassis itself.A couple of things jump out at me I don't like about that chassis: It's leaf sprung non load sharing.
Narrow series track width.
Difficulty in using a Defender PAS box.
There is no differential between the middle and rear axles, making a 6X4 selectable 6X6 or maybe 6X2 selectable 6X4/6X6.We can do better than that these days.

Diana :p